Army Guy

I'd be curious to hear what they have done, that you don't trust them. Why is it that you so dead set again'st anything with stealth, when the F-35 has so much more than stealth. Having a modern military is all about having state of the art equipment, it's also giving our members an edge on the battle field over our enemies, whom ever that may be. Stealth is an edge, not the end all be all, it is an edge we can use over our enemies. And the edges may be the difference between life and death. His comments will come from the liberal party, nothing more or less. And the liberal party are not fans of the F-35 period, there not fans of anything really when it comes to the military.

Sure they have, they are just not serving as a leader of any nation. Nor is there enough of them to make a difference. Military members do not have a say in which photo op they will take part in.....We do as we are told, don't hate the player, hate the game.

And there you have it folks, Bud is hosting the surrender flag, the war is finally over....or is it stayed tuned for the next round, when we find out out.... can he resist responding to Rue's posts or has he finally ran out of material....

A political feel good about yourself speach, don't get overwhelmed everyone gets the same speach, your forgetting the first 3 years of the Afghan conflict where were we and what caveats did we have..... I think you should research how much we contribute to NORAD, and then tell me, you are aware that NORAD is responable for more than Airspace right ? Shit wiki leaks had no problem finding sources....it made the media they are there just have to look. Besides you are pushing a forces reduction in Capabilities and your sources says nothing about reduction in capabilities, but rather you are pushing futher relience on US forces. Is that what it is "bullshit" well i guess i should not have expected anything else. I mean reductions, reductions reductions, anyway you look at it , it does not come out with " support your troops" Not having the proper equipment we need to do the job translates into having soldiers come home in coffins it's really that simple .....or did you forget how many of our young soldiers died in Afghan , some in open air jeeps, some in the open air jeeps replacements, most on the roads littered with IED's , because we could not fly our supplies around like most of the other contingents, we even had to borrow tanks from Germany because we did not want to buy any.....why because we did not have the proper equipment and when we finally got it , it was to little and to late, soldiers had already paid that price....Is that what you call supporting the troops, wait until enough have died then we will spend the funding to save a few.....do you really think i should stop the Support your troops bullshit....i lived and watched these guys die and NO i will not stop.... Your approach is to expand military capabilities indefinitely without consideration of budget constrints, waste, or the development of useless capabilities. If I remember correctly you were in favour of a fleet of Canadian aircraft carriers! Guess what happens when you spread yourself too thin? Thant's right you end up being a jack of all trades and a master of none. More coffins, amputees and mental scars are coming back under your plan compared to mine! Nobody said expansion of Capabilities, but rather strengthing the ones we already have, your right i did not have any considerations to budget restraints, but lets not forget the main reason our military is in it's current shape is budget restraints, over the last 30 years or so, nobody seemed to care where the money came from then, and now or shortly it will come time to pay the piper.....and the longer we wait the larger the price tag....I have always said there is waste and something should be done to fix it..... That is half your problem you can't remember shit. I never said we should invest in useless capabilities, nor have i been a advocate of Aircraft carriers, ....again with the research thing, try it once.... Just to correct you, we did not spread ourselfs to thin, the Canadian tax payer and serving governments did that...And we already are jsck of all trades, master of none of them because we do not enjoy the same amount of support as the US military has....You also forget that this has been the way our military has operated for well over 50 years, our troops would go where every you send them, with a sling shot and broken arrow if need be, why because we have your back, this nation is worth all of that and more .... my piont is that if you want to reduce and you agree on that solely because of funding then you should be there to meet the bodies of our troops when they come home.

I'm not sure what you are impling here, are you suggesting that Canada has used it's military for other uses, such as expansion, to opress other nations into using seal pelts, or eating beaver tails. Or are you saying we are a militarized nation with an agenda. could you please explain. Your right there is not a whole lot of good that comes out of war, and yet man has yet to learn that leason and until he does and we turn wpns into plows we have to be prepared. nobody is saying we should compete on the scale of the US,or that we have aspirations of ruling the world one day.... But we are a nation of more than 40 mil, a nation that has one of the best standards of living in the world, rich with resources, space, We should be able to handle with ease a military of 100,000. We should be able to atleast defend ourselfs and make postive foreign policy.

That is the best you got, Corporate agendas, is this why we as a nation do not support spending money on our military, or our troops because of corporate agendas.... If you are going to throw this slogan out there and stand behind it as some counter to "Support your troops" It's bullshit....It rings just as hollow as the "Support our troops " slogan does....Your talking as if our Military industrial complex is running this nation, only we don't have one, or are you suggesting that the US complex is actually running our country....Shit they can barely run themselfs let only 2 nations....So please explain how Canadian corporate agendas have been running the show in places like Bosina, Afghan cyprus, Haiti, the list goes on.....

Then do some research, I've given you the time frames, all you have to do is look, NATO in europe during the cold war, Canada cuts back, Yugo peace keeping US and British armies nick name us CAN'T Bat 1 & 2 because of our caveats , Afghanistan, the early years (excluding the intial PPCLI commitment) we move into Kabul with major Caveats because they did not want any more coffins coming home...... "Punching above our wieght was a Canadian made feel good slogan invented to have Canadians feel good about their military and the job they were doing, it was not until we moved south that we lifted the caveats....Then out come the slogans, and then the complaining about the others not lifting as much as we were....we had just gotten into the game, i often wondered how it must of looked to US and British troops who had been doing the lifting from day one..... Your sources are wrong, the proof is in the pudding, look at NORAD, here is an defense agreement between the US and Canada, it's simple really, one would think that between two nations it should be a 50/ 50 split, guess again, do some research and find out who foots the bill for the lions share, for defense over our own air space.... NATO, what do we contribute to NATO, again if you do some research you'd be surprised at how little we do contribute... ABCA, we contribute even less to this agreement, and yet we as Canadians expect them to fully comit to us in any event, be it war, natural disaster, etc.... Canadians are good at repeating that same old question, "who are we preparing to defend ourselfs again'st....Here is their answers....." we don't have any enemies....none with any capabilities ....or the US will stop them so why bother.... and that ladies and gentlemen is what i call supporting our troops...... The men and women that have seen through all the smoke and bullshit and decided that defending ourselfs is not a bad idea....And they are going to do that regardless of what you think or say or what our government cuts back....So spend what ever you like on foreign aid, feel good projects, you can come with all kinds of excuses, of why or why not ... But you should also come on down to trenton,and watch them off loading the coffins, watch the whole process...then ask yourself was giving that funding to some totally stranger worth all that or could i have made one of our own citizens alittle safer by providing the equipment they need to do the job we asked them to do. We as a nation are not looking at world domination, nor competing with the US in the size of our penises....we are looking at be able to stand up, for our own defence...and stand up for those that can not....such as your 3 rd world nations....

Looking back at time, i'm not sure how we as a society even survived, playing shiney full contact hockey on some pond with a puck, and Sears wish books taped to my shines, nobody died, nobody had any long term injuries....Football was full contact, with no gear, just a football, again everybody lived....well their was that kid down the street , but he had that lisp his whole life ....today shit i'm surprised we don't tape up our kids up with bubble wrap just to ride bikes....Todays sports are safer than every before....then again there is always the play station, and letting our kids get 400 lbs....

Not sure who did it, Pretty sure it was not the US forces....As every nation has been blamed at one time or another about mishandling POW's or killing prisoners, and for the most part they have been false.....This happens almost every week over there ...this has always been a media war, one faction blaming another to make them look bad. something like the Bosina war. Things are drawing to a close over there, soon ANA and AIS will have to stand on their own, and for the most part they can't wait for NATO forces to leave so they can run their own country they way they want. May be this is some way to discredit the US some how , just not sure why. or should i say i have a theory but i can't prove any of it so won't post it.

I know most of our bases down south and in Kabul, civilian population was butted right up to our wire within 50 ft ...Remember not all the bases were built, but rather taken over as ex warehouses of manufacture plants, all NATO did was put fences and bunkers up. So sneaking up to the wire is not all that big of a task. Also remember that this base security, is probably done by ANA....the spec ops camp would be a camp within a camp so to speak....ANA has had problems with inflitration by taliban.

Have you been to afghanistan, have you compared Afghanistan pre war to the Afghanistan post war. you tell me

Do any of you find it alittle ironic that we have to sell plates to help fund soldiers projects...Does that not send a message to anyone that perhaps our Federal government is not doing enough, or could do alittle more.... SUPPORTING our troops is more than just buying a bumper sticker, or magnetic strip that says you do. It's voicing your opinion to our local, provincial, federal governments that you think we are not living up to your side of the bargin. which is having our soldiers back at all times, not just on NOV 11 , but all year around.... Our Nations Soldiers have always had your back, they have risked life and limb around the world 24 hours of everyday,of every year since our countries inception. the volunteered, because they where proud to do so, they seen what not every Canadian sees, A great nation worth all the sacrifices we are asked to endure, and a people that we would risk our lives for.... Yes including those that do not really care what our soldiers do in their name..

You are aware of our nations defensive agreements, our foreign policy, because it does not sound like it. Are you suggesting that we raise taxes to pay for our defensive agreements, and the equipment we need to do the job. Those expensive war toys are what is going to give our military members the edge in combat,unless of course your saying "screw them" their lives are not worth the money...because when it comes to it once our government decides to send troops we are going whether or not it is in a iltis jeep, or an F-35.... That is one of the many reasons that define Supporting our troops. Making sure we have the right equipment to do the job that has been assigned. Being poor and darked skin has nothing to do with our defensive agreements or foreign policy. As a nation our enemies can be any skin color or rich or poor. Most Canadians know that.

Is it the coservative race to the bottom, or is it all of our own greed to push our jobs, manufacture plants, else where.

I think there are alot of assumptions being made here. first one is calling them civilians to start off with, do you really think that a spec ops unit deals with day to day raids to pick up civilians, thats what regular force units do. By the time you call in the Spec ops it's because the raid is difficult to achieve, or intel has already ID them as high priority targets, the real bad guys. second these guys are one of the best fighting units in the world, speaking 2 to 3 languages, univeristy educated, trained in 2 or 3 specialties, access to every military piece of equipment the US forces has... ...do you really think they would be that dumb to just kill them and bury them in the back yard....I mean come on, why not just board them aboard a helo and push them out over the mountains if that was the case... Third is the translators are Afghan citizens, all ASI has to do is pick them up once they leave the base. they are not covered by any agreement, and would come under Afghan law. Another piont to note that it is not just the US government that does not release any of it's soldiers to foreign agencies, it is every nation within the coalition. Every seen an afghan prison, NATO soldiers would be dead within an hour of being arrested....because they are full of taliban. I'm sure that the US will do it's own investagtion into what happen, or already have and have deemed it was not their guys.

Was not aware of that thanks for the update.

This guy makes me want to puke, I'm not only ashamed that this guy is an elected offical, but he is in charge of the very people that have given so much to this nation. He needs to step down for a couple of reasons, 1. He represents Veteran affairs and all of their interests be it boring or not....To make these comments in front of troops most of which are vets themselfs....it was the Vets of Canada that made the ultimate sacrifice so he could sit his pompous ass down in his ministers chair...I wonder what exciting stories this guy has to pass on, and what he has contributed to this nation....other than to slag the very people that helped build this nation to what it is today.... To pass them off like they were a burden PISSES ME OFF...I think he needs to move his office to one of the many VETs wards set up across this country, and be forced to listen to every war story they have, listen to what they have given up for this country....To actually find out why we have such a debt to them.... 2. There is no difference between our troops and vets, they were all once troops,all wore the same Canadian emblem on their shoulders.... they all had signed on to defend this nation, all agreeing on giving their lifes if nessicary...They do not deserve such a comment, let alone from an elected offical. I wonder if this guy said anything to them during Nov 11 rememberance day... I'm surprised that none of the troops did not walk off that parade after those comments....Keeping in mind that is is our own comrads in arms that are effected by these remarks, men and women that we have chewed the same dirt with, have shed blood sweat and tears with...Disgusting...

How so? how are we SO different.

What natural resources are you talking about, those that the US does notm have already have an abundance of.

I think you have the wrong impression of Patriots, and what they would be willing to doff their caps to. the difference between the US and Canada is mininmal, we share most of the same values, morals, well once it is all laid out their is not a whole lot of difference between the two people. What were you expecting, that our armed forces would rally behind our flag and fight until the last man. Rather than become part of something that we are already 99 % of anyways...This might be the case if the US would use force to take what they want. But it is not. It is a issue brought up in a forum, a what if issue. a Playful exericise so to speak. I've served this nation,in combat risking my life and those of my troops many times over , not for money, I think my bank account will prove that, but for the chance to serve this nation, and if this nation decides to merge then i'm all for it. not because of the money but rather for what is best for the nation.

The average Canadian is all about the financial aspect, in my opinon it is what drives Canadians for the most part, and while it is not the only issue nor does it trump all the other issues, hard to explain in a couple of paras so that is what i concentrated on it. As for the self discribed patriot, at the end of the day regardless of what happens i will be Canadian, my history will be Canadian, my heritage will be Canadian,nothing will ever change that,just like nothing has changed for the orginal immigrants that arrived here on day one. and over time we will all learn to be patriots of another flag and country. That is the problem is it not,like you said how could anyone guarantee anything,like when the Germanies merged, the bean counters had predicted massive debt problems due to the east conditions,Gemans squirled away tonnes of gold for this, and yet it was not as bad as they had predicted. in fact now Germany is one of the leading nations within the EU. I'm not trying to sell it, as i'm still warming up to the idea myself, but i can't see any problem that can not be overcome. I aslo don't see all the minor problems qouted on other post becoming a major issue, such as crime, guns , terrorists. what i can envision is one large and one meduim industrial nations becoming a power house. I also see our standard of living improving.

Cheaper consumer goods for one such as food,fuel,construction materials, automotive the list goes on Cheaper services such as cell phone, home phone,internet etc, less personal taxes, things that hit us in our wallets, for the most part is cheaper. meaning thousand of dollars saved in each household... For the majority of Canadians we live fairly close to the US border, freedom of movement would be opened up. no borders , no customs, trade would move as it does now within Canada...which would bring down the cost of consumer goods. not to mention bring travel costs down for tourism more savings. Some have said the US is after our resources, like i've said it will be some give and take, but the US has the funding to properly extract them, creating JOBS, thousands of them. Canada's military complex is to small, with this new territory to protect, the US would expand upon our existing military bases, once again creating more Jobs, creating more industry to support these new adventures "more jobs". I think this aspect alone would create more jobs than Canada could fill. How many people does Canada lose to the US job market a year, because they offer more pay or more incentives, this would or should level out the playing field alittle. keeping doctors etc inhouse. I'm not a money expert but with our two nations join how could that not strenghting both dollars value... with the EU currency lossing value NA dollar would soon be the top dog, i mean most of the world trades in US dollars how could that not boast our economy to positive numbers. Bottom line is jobs are going to be created, maybe not as postive as i'd hope but jobs none the less, the way i see it is more canadians will flee south than americans will flee north....jobs mean dollars, dollars mean growth...how could that be bad....

I don't think it's because of the corporate taxes. But instead supply and demand. 4 years ago i was shopping for a new ATV , looked into getting a new bombardier you know the yellow ones, anyways, at the time they were selling here in NB for about 11 k, A friend of mine told me to call over to maine and check out the prices....they were selling for 8500.00 at all the US shops, they and were told by Bombardier that they could not sell to a Canadian citizen or they would loose there lic....At the time these machines were being built in Quebec..... When i phone the 1-800 number and talked to them, they said if a Canadian wanted to buy one of these machines he had to pay the Canadian price...US prices were set to be competive in just the US market, because they sell more machines there....Today they are now built in Mexico, and there is still a mark up for Canadians.

Never say never, mergers have already happened ,East Germany with west,NFLD with the rest of Canada,so there are examples out there, and it can be done. I don't see anything that could not be over come. I personally think the good out wieghs the bad in the long run. You don't think there would be give and take for both sides. Your looking at loosing our natural resources, and yet we are selling or leasing those same resources to whom right now....Nobody says you have to stop being Canadian, shit the US is split by many sub cultures the North and the South, take a look at Texas or californa, so why not Canadian. what is it that your afraid of loosing ? As for someone from the middle east trying to kill you, your chances of that happening are as about as great as getting hit by lightning.....To Much US debt, today the debt figures are high, but do you really think that someone is not going to take action on that...Canada has it's share of debt to. To much baggage and to many enemies that is what happens when you carry the biggest stick in the house, you'll get over it...

I've spent 33 years serving this great country, and have developed a great loyality to it, to it's people and its history...Over a dinner with serveral guest we had this very conversation, an i must admit initially i was the same as everyone posting was not very accepting of the idea.....I was lucky enough to have some of my US born and raised cousins at the table from Maine...We discussed both topics of merging totally and becoming one country, or just becoming one union like the EU. until near the end of the conversation i was asked to define "what makes us Canadian" and "what do you fear lossing or gaining". I was caught with my pants down, one would think after 33 years of service i would be able to list many just Canadian attributes, but what i thought we strictly Canadian were also shared by our neibours down south. To which we share more in common than other nations that we pride ourselfs in having cultural ties with for example the UK. And those things that are Canadian we won't lose them, i'm sure the US won't be passing any laws to strickly abolish poutine for example or any of our slang we use such as double double and i'm sure our past history will not change as it is recorded ... What about our health care, Ya our health care is a good system, while not perfect it's better than the US model. but change is in the wind down there as well....Like some have mentioned here that perhaps the Canadians will have an impact on future US direction such as health care. Yes i agree it would be massive undertaking and would take years of work by everyone involved, but really is any of it insurmountable that we simply say it's to hard , not worth it....Both countries were not built with that attitude, We have pretty much laided out every problem , dislike or like there is for this iisue, but is there any that can not be changed or overcome.... I myself am warming up to the idea, and have not crossed it off as impossable.