Army Guy

Not much, but to be fair i'll explain all the bonues to put it into context. Danger pay is computed into something call operational allowaneces. which are divided into 3 parts. Operations Foreign Service Premium; it's a pionts based system for every month your spend on operations out of country you get 1 piont....the scale goes from 1 to 169 or more....it starts off at 701 cdn dollars and tops out at 1454 cdn dollars...please note to get the top rating one must have spent 169 months or more on operations within his carear... Hardship Allowance; The intent of the Hardship Allowance (HA) is to compensate for the living conditions existing at a specific post. it's based on a rating between 0 and 6 and is assigned by NDHQ, every 6 months....to give you an example out in the FOB's it was set at level 4 , and we where sleeping in trenches and bunkers at the time....and normally works out to around 2 to 500 Cdns dollars Risk allowance The intent of the Risk Allowance (RA) is to compensate for the risks associated with a specific post. It's based on a rating scale from 0 to 4....Out in the FOB's it was at risk level III Works out to be around 3 to 400 dollars So to answer your question while we are payed a risk allowance, and it is fairly low, on avg each soldier is paid on the low end of the scale approx 1200 dollars, to 2400 dollars for being on tour.... So yes your pay increases accordingly.... Actually if you where to exclude the admin and support trades, you'd find you be looking at on the army side about 10 to 11 k in the combat trades...for what it is worth it would shape the numbers drastically... It maybe to some admin and support trades, however most combat trades will spend on a 20 to 25 year carear, appox 84 mths months away on operations or about 7 years...on avg thats 7 tours...i know guys with 12 to 15 tours, and some with less than 5 but those are very rare today. Filing papers may not be dangerous, but lets compare a say live fire ex with over 500 tired , exhausted troops armed with automactic wpns..., or driving a 25 ton veh with no lights with no moon, at excessive speeds with night vision gear on...or being Danager close (only 300 meters from the objective,) with live arty and tank fire raining down on it....then comes the "DISMOUNT", DISMOUNT""DISMOUNT" and you come out of the back of your LAV praying that the Arty and tank boys have started to lift thier fire, or creep it to the back of the objective....Anything we would do in war time is exericised dozens of time before we do it on the enemy....and for combat trades thats dozens of times each year....I still rather go fishing , and you'd make alot more money doing it...

I just wanted to shead some more light on this whole argument on dangerous jobs.... Lets keep in mind that in 2002 we were engaged in combat, with US forces suffered 4 deaths not sure if we are counting wounded, but 32 is the count. From 2003 to 2005 we were in Kabul, basically doing what the germans and french are doing now, patrols etc...little combat per say....in those years we suffer another 4 deaths, approx 57 wounded... We then transfer to the south in late 2005 until present... 2006,34 deaths, 300 plus wounded. 2007 28 deaths 300 plus wounded 2008,27 deaths 300 plus wounded 2009 27 deaths 300 plus wounded It should be noted that the number serving through that year was only 5500 troops up until 2008 when that number climbed to 6000, and in 2009 it climbed to 6400 troops....so to get a true look into the stats those are the numbers you have to work with....I guess you'd have to ask yourself would you rather be fishing or going out on patrol. Now my math is bad and i'm sure you guys will sort me out but with 34 deaths out of 5000 would equate into 680 deaths out of every 100,000

That depends, there is always a but...once your trained the military wants to employ you, so it would depend on the trade you chose and the unit your deployed with...units with a high operation tempo often members don't have time to persue higher education...but the military never frowns on upgrading your education, in fact it's encouraged...Yes they have to have be relevent to some degree, not mush call for say womens studies or interior decorating....but keep in mind the military has hundrards of trades, and officers programs that encompass just about everything you can think off from being in the Infantry, to space sciences, comms and sats....Memebrs can also have a good portion of thier education payed for...either in the ranks Pte to CWO, or in the officers programs, the but to all this is you have to pass the courses you take...and they will refund a good portion of it...fail and it's on your dime... There is plenty fo oppotunities for advance, and if your good at what you do the shy is the limit...The military does a good job at pushing them and you'll be challange more than you could imagine, keeping in mind our operational tempo is the highest it has been since the Korean war....promotion and annual raises will answer your money questions...like i said it is a very delicate balancing act doing the job and getting you the training you need to progress....it's the most challanging thing i've attemted in my life...and you'll here that across the board...those not happy in their current jobs often change entire carears keep in mind there is hundrds of chioces as long as you score well enough in your aptitude tests... Language traing is a must for progression, all training is free and given to those that require it for progression...other training is also free, and as required...including higher education provided you pass your courses.... I've given you the basics your best bet is to vist the DND recruiting web site or see DND's other web sites, to give you a more detailed discription....can't find them i'll get them for you....The defense team is always looking for new people ....thats my best recruiting pitch...iyou should also know that the Military pays out huge signing bonues for some trades or postions...worth looking into.... And while i've pitched you my best pitch, Military life is not for everyone..it's very regimental, very unbending in it's rules and regulations, and you will be held to a higher standard than any job in the civilian world, you'll be subjected to serveral kinds of laws, starting with Canada's criminal code, military law, plus all the conventions we've signed on to as a nation....screw up here and your in for a rough ride....There is no surprises in the military, if you sign up for combat you'll know very quickly what that entials....sign up for something else and you'll know exactly what it does....you won't wake up one day on the battle field and say...i did'nt sign up for this....your training starting in basic is designed to weed those out... I hope that answers your question....

One must first know the symptoms of a disease before one can treat it...If one knows the cost not just in lives but on everything a generation does one might not be so easliy swayed towards the war option...it also sets you up for the quest into the why ? now it's not so boring is it... Besides as long as man has a quest for power, money, postion, and still holds favour for greed,dominance over others....we shall have war... Rememberance day is not about educating you about war or it's reasons behind it...it's about rememberance of the cost, about listening to the names of the fallen, not forgetting thier sacrifice for king and country. it's to give us pause and think, they where all good men and women, who made the ultimate sacrifice so others may not have to....for our current freedoms and rights...everything we value today as Canadians is due to them... I think we owe it to them, after all it's just one and half hours out of your time a year....we cry, we salute, we remember, we drink a beer , go home....

Grant it the history of those two contries will give us some insight into who we are or what stock we came from. But you can not include thier history in with ours...it was done under British, of french flags and under thier governance....they (those) involved may have later became Canadians, but thier actions before that, are part of France and British history... Those actions taken again'st the the aborignal peoples of NFLD where done well before Canada as a nation was even thought of...Kind of like blaming my kids for something my grand father did...Those men and women involved in those tradgic crimes are where this blame needs to be placed...not on a nation that was not even developed yet.... We have those freedoms that allow you to find the truth, even to spread it or correct histroy if you can prove it...besides to get the whole picture one should try and read it from both sides, getting a clearer picture.... Not our history British and french history....

perhaps 25- 30 years ago, but not in todays army, not a chance, everyone has to taken a written and oral test or interview, which tests not only IQ levels but slots you into a trade ....if you could not read or write...one would not score very well...and with todays standards , like i said before even the Infantry has a good number of it's recruits already with degrees... Must have had something going for him as ships gunnery stills need alot of math, understanding ballistics, mechanics of the gun, .....

Pay scales are available on DND web site, or recruiting page, The starting wage for a recruit is 30 k, over the next 3 to 4 years they will recieve gradual pay raises, IE after recruiting you procede to trades training complete that you get a pay raise small, but it's a raise....every year there is an incremental raise once again small but it's a raise, the Largest pay raise a soldier will get is from Pte to Cpl....almost 12 k jump...for non spec trades, spec trades the jump is alot larger.... That being said the next rank level is from Cpl to Mcpl the difference here is approx 65- 100 dollars a month for non spec trades, ie more resposability but small pay raise... I got this info off the Toronto sanition web site, and while the majority are proable on that lower end, i'm sure thier is plenty on the higher scale as well...I know it shocked me as well...that being said here in Gagetown NB my garbage guy is making a cool 22 dollars an hour, still a decent wage.... Federal government workers do make a very decent wage, some with no speciality skills what so ever...are making well beyond my wage... I like to say again , not many soldiers complain about wages, as one of the highest paid militaries in the world, we do all right...but there should be some common sense placed on how we pay people.... perhaps the private sector needs to catch up. Todays recruits have a higher education level than say just 15-20 years ago, when high school was the norm, now basic inf have degrees, alot of them have serveral...and join the Inf as a starting block, and gradually work themslefs and thier education to a higher placed job, or trade. Got a question ask.

You should ask that same question to those school kids that have visted some of our war cemetaries in Europe, and toured the actually battlefields in france, such as vimy...or talked to anyone that has walked the ground on some of the NAZI concentration camps....it does lead into other things , more questions,more discusion, and a deeper understanding...it's not so dry and boring, when you can see thousands of Canadian grave markers, or smell the lingering death of the ovens....and while this oportunity does not eist to all our school children, there are plenty of vidios, movies, pictures to drive the same piont home...maybe we can finally get a generation that will not know war...

I think it is because we don't spend enough time educating the latest generation, All the vets i talked to this year, express this concern, in fact the legion spent more than usual doing just that going to the schools and telling them there stories...The Military also hit alot of schools but history takes more than just one 30 min vist once a year... The Vets are worried about what is going to happen when thier gone. who is going to keep the torch burning...who is going to remember...

If your talking about becoming a grunt that would hold some water, but the forces has alot of trades that require a better resume than what is accepted in the RCMP...You'd be surprised at how many current RCMP members are actually ex military. I think you miss the piont it is after all a garbage collectors we are talking about, I would hope that our nations soldiers would be paid atleast as much as our nations garbage collectors.... A Members dental care is looked after, but this is not unusual for companies to do this...as for my families dental care we are subdised for some dental under Blue cross..which is available to most. Traveling expenses are paid, provided it is for military business,IE courses, training,...it's not all that great, compared to say other governmental employees....and it only covers the member...unless it is a move... subsidized housing changed 5 or more years ago, And is no longer available..currently all rents on PMQ's are based on the average of what it costs downtown, for the same size of dwelling....So Housing is different across the country, out west you pay more than out east, you pay alot more if your in say toronto or in the city..keep in mind that those military PMQ's where constructed in the early 50's and you are paying the same rent as the ons down town constructed in the 90's 00 era...alot of military families are now purchasing thier own homes as a result. free travel on forces planes today is not the same as it was years ago, there is not a dedicated aircraft fleet for passagers....most haul cargo and there is a chance you can get a seat on these aircraft...if you don't mind cargo class...a nylon strapped seat on some herc...and you won't find many families flying on this flights...as they are not garenteed to get you to your designation... Yes DND does cover the cost of your move, after all we serve at our countries pleasure, and as a result members move frequently....but one has to admit, most of these postings are not gems, Suffield Alberta, Shilo Manitoba, Yellow knife NWT, Petawawa ont, out of the way places with not much to offer your family in regards to a normal life...But then again alot of companies pay for this. Thats the problem pay rates are standard across the board...regardless where you are stationed, sure the do offer some assistance in regards to the major cities rent but it does not cover half the problem...it's meant to assist, which creates another problem not alot of members want the big city postings, as it cost just to much. And i was'nt comparing a Pte's wage with an University Prof wage, but rather a garbage men wage....don't get me wrong it is a honest living , but so is soldiering... This rarely happens, it has traditional been the lowest bidder, until very recently when sole sourcing has been introduced....but not very much of our stuff is the best the market has...don't get me wrong some of it is good, but it's far from the best...

Interesting read....

Yes we can, those people responsable where French and British subjects, following French and british governments of the time....Canada was not a nation, nor did it have a government, and while those that commited those crimes may have stayed on and later became Canadian citizens one can hardly place this entire mess at the feet of Canadians....Shit we had NAZI war criminals that became Canadians , but we don't share the blame for thier crimes.... And yes the may have had a bounty placed on thier heads, the Beothic tribe is in grave danger of extinction before those British orders where put into effect. Mostly from the reasons i've already quoted... And if your statement holds true, how far back in history do we have to go, the Napoleonic war, crap we could take the blame for both sides No you pionted out that it did happen in NFLD while under british rule, and governance...And while our Canadian history is full of mistreatment of our aboriginal people, we did not persue the North American Indian situation like the US did. two governments, two different solutions, I'm not saying one was better than the other. And while history is often written by the victor or so they say, in todays world that is nearly impossiable, as sson as media became of age, and nations kept accurate histories, all one has to do is compare the two...and while in modern times you'll find that history may be alittle scued towards it's orginator, that both copies or sides generally reflect what actually happened... Every nation wants to think it's people are pure and unable to carry out war crimes, but war is hell it changes even the best of us...turning us into something we are not, animals...capable of any act if pushed into it...But in our defence our own history has captured our good side and bad, all one has to do is look for it in most reputable history books. But i think you'll find that these crimes where not carried out on a national front, or from orderes from our government making it policy....Canada did not come up with a plan to exterminate it's UNWANTED, so one can hardly lay that at the feet of Canadians....you may be able to piont out a few Canadians and place the blame with them...but you can't paint the entire Canadian nation with the same brush...

When you said delberate extermination you make it sound like Genicide....I guess none of the below reasons would play a major role in that, would they... -loss of access to important food sources, from competition with Inuit and Mi'kmaqs as well as European settlers; -infectious diseases to which they had no immunity, such as smallpox, introduced by European contact -(Western peoples also suffered from these diseases. Vaccination against smallpox did not become widespread until the late 19th and 20th centuries); -endemic tuberculosis (TB), which weakened tribal members; and -violent encounters with trappers, settlers and other natives. My next question is if Canada did not become a nation until 1867, are you going to hold Canadians responable for this event, or the british ? If Canadians are resposable, just how far back in history do we have to go before the British get some of your scorn...

This quote and Gabriel's quote are bang on. Rememberance day has nothing to do with War and all of it's baggage...It's about paying tribute to those that have fallen or served, To honor thier sacrifice that they have made towards our nation. To the Vets it's a emotional wrapped day of events, from joy of seeing old comrads, to pain of remembering those that have not come back, to guilt living while so many died, to rememberance, over a few beers with comrads talking about those that did not make it back, sharing a few laughs, and a few tears as stories are told about each one of them...its our way to ensure that we don't forget...atleast while we are still alive... As any Vet will tell you, very few good things come out of war, it's not a movie , nothing romantic about it, or is it full of adventure....It's a journey into the gates of hell.

Actually a Pte is making approx 30 k a year, with 2 and LT making 40 k a year , both are pretty respectable wages in itself. however to put things into perspective, compare them with other jobs available . Such as your avg garbage man in toronto wages are from $25 to $50 dollars an hour.... RCMP officers from 50 to 75k a year. While true the Avg Pte in the forces spends less than 4 years in the rank of Pte rank, where he recieves promotion to Cpl which wages are a respectable 50 k a year....Still well below the examples i gave above... What benifits does a soldier really get, that are not afforded by the average civilian company ? not many.. Not paying income tax while deployed on operations. for the time you are out of Canada... Danger pay.... there are a few others that really not worth mentioning.... SO the question needs to be asked are soldiers really getting paid well, Yes they are, but when you compare them to other jobs around the country, then not really.... That being said you would not find to many soldiers complaining about wages...as good as they seem today, this was not the same situation 6 to 10 years ago, when soldiers where going to food banks and drawing welfare as well just to make ends meet...So we know what shitty wages are.

All in favour , say I, there you go ladies and gentlemen Canadian democracy in action the I's have it, bring in the shipping crate, lets see food, water, phoney passports, , case of gold coins, and one bag of lies.....all right seal it up....and put it on that boat there.... Somolia...it's a muslim country right....peaceful religion....he'll be OK... NEXT...

68% of those "polled" where against sending troops...i had a survey done here in the halls of 2 RCR, 100 % agreed that polls should not be used be themselfs to prove any piont....as they are not accurate to any degree.... 100 % of those polled also believe that those polled are pussies, and outside of thier vast knowledge of "poutin" proably could not find Afghanistan on a map let alone spell it....

This is a typical Canadian response, to most problems, it all boils down to the money, and what do i get out of it....Send me your pay pal account info and i'll send you back your money...god forbid that one of our citizens can't afford the 20 bucks a year that it cost you,to support this mission.... god forbid that you share any of that wealth with a people that really need it....

It's always been an offensive Campaign,from day one... one does not over throw an entire government, hunt it's soldiers down to close with and destroy them...Canadians knew this before we got on the airplanes... How is that ?....even a dead clock is right twice a day...

We did not get sucked into anything, we were living up to one of our most important defence agreements we've signed...And after Korea we've been taking all the easy ones, or not doing anything at all, except maybe a little peace keeping...It was time we stepped up, and we did...we'll just have to suck it up.

Correct me if i'm wrong but i thought our entire government and the way we did bussiness was based on the British system, to change that to a republic would mean changing our entire governmental process,...or are you saying that we just back fill the Queen and GG with a blank postion...and keep things the way they are now.... Just one question in regards to this whole process, perhaps i'm wrong but did not Quebec vote on becoming a province and to join Canada and our current form of government...would changing our governmental status, change that process...IE such as the US has now where no referundum can be issued in order to form thier own country...etc etc once commited then it takes everyone involved across the republic to change it....

Is the Ont government trying to take advantage of the Support the troops fad. My linkwww.torontosun.com/

I stand corrected...

You can correct me if i'm wrong but in this para your saying if we fight Extremist Islam with the same zeal as we did Nazism then it can be defeated.... And here your saying we can not defeat extremist Islam with force, so we should learn just to get along....Which deamnds should we accomodate, Burkas, Shia law, I let you pick but plse tell us what they are...Tell us what these terrorist have to offer that we would consider accomodating...

I never said it was why we went, i said it was what motivates me in to returning. Burma was the best example you could could find, not Dafar, or for that matter most of the African continent... Our current Military is the size it is because Canadians want it that way, yes they are concerned about it, and what we do with it, but when they see the price tag that concern drops , in favour of something that dirrectly effects them today, right now....and your not going to change that, so for now our country is a one mission at a time...Burma, Dafar are all going to have to wait...