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Wrong - again. Delgamuukw did not settle the question of Wet’suwet’en title As protests in support of Wet’suwet’en hereditary chiefs opposed to the Coastal GasLink pipeline continue to rage across the country, a number of Wet’suwet’en and their supporters have pointed to the landmark Delgamuukw decision to support their position. That position is that the hereditary chiefs are the rightful title-holders of traditional land, and that only they can make decisions about what happens on that land. They cite the landmark Supreme Court of Canada Delgamuukw decision as affirming Wet’suwet’en title. Except it didn’t. “There are people who are saying that the Delgamuukw decision affirms Gitxsan and Wet’suwet’en title, and that is not correct,” said Geoff Plant, former B.C. attorney general, treaty minister and lawyer for the Crown in the original Delgamuukw trial. “It affirmed that title exists in law but said that the Wet’suwet’en and Gitxsan would essentially need to start all over with a new trial.” “We’re not talking about proven Aboriginal title,” said Thomas Isaac, author of Aboriginal Law and former chief treaty negotiator for the B.C. government. “We’re talking about asserted title, and we’re talking about the rule of law. And the same courts that recognize Section 35 [Canadian Constitution] rights are the same courts that put limits on those rights. It scoped out what title meant, should it be proven. That decision didn’t prove title. It was sent back to trial.” The Delgamuukw decision was an important legal precedent in Aboriginal rights and title law. The case was brought by members of the Wet’suwet’en and neighbouring Gitxsan First Nation. It became one of the cornerstones for other rulings, notably the William decision, in which the Supreme Court of Canada affirmed the Tsilhqot’in Nation had established title to a portion of claimed territory through continuous and exclusive occupation. Aboriginal title is a higher form of Aboriginal rights. First Nations may hold Aboriginal rights to use land and waters for activities such as hunting, fishing and trapping, but that does not mean they own it. It may be shared territory used by other First Nations. Title is a form of ownership of specific land, although that ownership is communal. In William, the Supreme Court of Canada confirmed Tsilhqot’in title based on the definitions established in the Delgamuukw case. It ruled that 1,750 square kilometres of Crown land southwest of Williams Lake now belongs to the Tsilhqot’in, not the Crown. That’s 2% of the Tsilhqot’in traditional territory originally claimed. Unlike in the William case, the Supreme Court in Delgamuukw stopped short of declaring that the Wet’suwet’en or Gitxsan had proven title to any specific lands. It affirmed that Aboriginal rights and title exist and were never extinguished. But to establish title, a second trial would be needed. As the William case demonstrated, proving title would require establishing continuous and exclusive occupation to certain lands. It would also need to address overlap issues with other First Nations in shared territory. It’s not clear why the Wet’su-wet’en never pressed forward with a second trial. As of press time, a representative for the Office of the Wet’suwet’en could not be reached to comment. Even when Aboriginal title to specific land is proven, it is “not absolute” and can be infringed, if there is a reasonable justification for that infringement, the Supreme Court ruled. “The aboriginal rights recognized and affirmed by s. 35(1), including aboriginal title, are not absolute,” the Supreme Court notes in the Delgamuukw decision. “Those rights may be infringed, both by the federal … and provincial … governments. However, [Section 35] requires that those infringements satisfy the test of justification.” The court provides examples where Aboriginal title might justifiably be infringed: “agriculture, forestry, mining, and hydroelectric power, the general economic development of the interior of British Columbia, protection of the environment or endangered species, the building of infrastructure and the settlement of foreign populations to support those aims, are the kinds of objectives that are consistent with this purpose and, in principle, can justify the infringement of aboriginal title.” The imbroglio over the Coastal GasLink pipeline speaks to the failure of the treaty process, which was supposed to resolve the Wet’suwet’en rights and title issue out of court. The Wet’suwet’en reached the agreement-in-principle stage but then abandoned the treaty table about two years ago. It is worth noting that the BC Treaty Commission recognizes the hereditary chiefs, through the Office of the Wet’suwet’en – not elected band council chiefs – as having the authority to negotiate treaty with the provincial and federal governments. In other words, the courts and governments recognize the authority of the hereditary chiefs as legitimate representatives of the Wet’suwet’en. In the Wet’suwet’en’s case, however, there is division over the Coastal GasLink project. Some hereditary chiefs oppose it, while others support it, as do all the elected band councils. Even where title is not proven – only asserted – provincial and federal governments have a duty to consult with and accommodate First Nations when approving projects that may infringe on their rights. But the duty to consult and accommodate is not a duty to achieve unanimous consent. That would effectively give First Nations a veto, and courts have repeatedly stated that no such veto power exists. “There is almost no case where Aboriginal title confers an absolute right,” Plant said. “Canadian law is always about balance. There are always cases where the greater social good will prevail over a private right, no matter how important or passionately held.” www.princegeorgecitizen.com/news/local-news/delgamuukw-did-not-settle-the-question-of-wet-suwet-en-title-1.24085622 __________________________

What makes you think I'm white? Why do you bring race into this? I'm offended. News Flash: A matriarchal system is hereditary.

Hmm. I was directly responding to you posting that story alleging British Muslims were facing harassment and leaving the UK. If you had no interest why did you post it?

It's hard to get a perspective on this since we don't really know how it's going to go. The health authorities do say it's only a matter of time. And if you examine what is known or what we think about this disease it's not good AT ALL. For example. Ontario hospitals are grossly overcrowded. In flu season they're often at over 100% capacity. What would Covid-19 look like if it became out of control? By which I mean there's too much of it to quarantine individuals as we're doing now. To start with, it's more than twice as contagious as the flu. So there's going to be twice as many cases. But there's no vaccination so more like three times as many. The flu has a mortality rate of about 0.05%. Covid-19 has a mortality rate of 2-3% Even at two that's 40 times the mortality rate of the flu - with three times as many cases. So instead of 1500 deaths per year we're talking about 50,000. Now let's look at severe cases. Approximately 1% of influenza cases are severe enough to require hospitalization. With Covid-19 5% of cases require critical care treatment. A total of about 16%-18% require hospitalization. Put as baldly as I can, our hospital system cannot possibly cope with anything remotely like those kinds of numbers. We're talking about a hospitalization rate of about 50 times that of the flu. And we can barely cope with the flu. Now let's look at the economic ramifications. From what I'm seeing in Italy, South Korea and China, widespread Covid-19 turns cities into ghost towns. Nobody is going to movies or sports games. Nobody is attending school. Nobody is going to church or temple. Nobody is traveling, taking buses or subways, going to restaurants or anywhere else there are crowds. Tourism dies out completely. Hotels are empty. People are only venturing out to buy the necessities. They're not going out to buy new and fashionable clothes or shoes or anything else they don't need immediately. Many people stay home from work. Others have no work to go to because they have no customers or clients. So yeah, it's gonna be a mess if it gets out into the general population.

The "messey" part of oil sands is the "mineable area" around (mostly North of) Fort McMurray. It is open pit mined because it is very close to the surface. It is also a relatively small part of the massive Athabasca deposit the dips deeper to the East. Depending on how you measure it, it is either one of the three largest reserves (based on proven and probable definitions) or knowing what is there, larger than ALL other reserves of petroleum hydrocarbons - possibly combined. It is not something we can afford to ignore, since HCs will be used for a very long time in the future, like it or not. What we CAN do, is concentrate on the deeper reserves that can be extracted now by steam assisted gravity drainage, but that and the much more energy efficient methods on the shelf require a much higher oil price to support. We can (and will) extract heavy reserves far more efficiently and sustainably, but it will depend on the $$$$ as these are very expensive ways of recovering oil. Once it is out of the ground, my own bias is towards NOT allowing heavy oil in the form of diluted bitumen to be shipped at all. By far the best thing to do is upgrade it on the spot (as both Syncrude and Suncor have done for decades) and ship synthetic crude with value added within Canada. Far safer, and far better basic economics. The mere presence of a LPC that is governing from the far left fringe and on top of that the end of rule-of-law in this country has scared off a LOT of investment in resources that will not be back our way for a very long time. At least the oil will still be there and by then with any luck the price will be sufficient to do it better (in political, environmental and economic terms).

Microsoft's discontinuation of Window's 7 and forced use of Windows 10 has resulted in a big change in how we get things done around here and I've inherited my wife's Surface Pro, she tried but just couldn't stomach the thing anymore so she gets the rebuilt Desktop PC and l don't. She also gets all the wires and dust bunnies and I have a lot more room on my desk. Its like a Chromebook on steroids. It opens and works like a laptop in desktop mode but with a touchscreen.The keyboard detaches from the thing and becomes a real tablet. I've been struggling with its sensitivity but coming to grips with it. I've had to adjust to touchscreens on boats going 30 knots switching between radar and plotter so I'm getting better. Nothing like touching something you shouldn't and having the radar suddenly switching to the configuration page or the porn channel some scurvy crewman was watching. I use Excel a lot and that's been the biggest challenge. I never liked the touchpad on laptops and I used a mouse whenever I had to. Excel without a mouse is a PITA and while the Surface Pro will support a mouse it also uses a touch pen that I just used to write this post. Its a pretty cool setup. I can see being able to write faster than I can type with practice and it also swypes but l can't right click with my finger so....

No worries...just an old Usenet alt newsgroup joke that you didn't get. Just stick to the topic and stop worrying so much about other people's "intelligence". Personal attacks are not permitted in the only forum you have ever participated in.

And again, you are looking for a fight where there is none. It is possible to invoke either data set, simultaneously without confusing the two. But thank you for indirectly pointing out that the U.S. had zero SARS deaths with 10X the population.

Well that's nice and good to know. Now could you please explain why it is 5 old men who are in the headlines? Are you a fascist?

The US is foolishly involved in a debate about "medical insurance" and "pharmaceutical costs". 1) Discussions of State Health Care (M4A, State paid heath care, single-payer health care) are in fact questions of life itself. 2) Without America, we in the rest of the world would have no idea how to value life, protect life. (Our medical systems would become increasingly Soviet, unsustainable.}

Oh my God! We're all going to die!!! ==== It is a bad common cold, infectious, with fever. The death rate is "low", about 1/1000 of those infected die - most deaths are people older than 60. By comparison, about 30% of those infected with Smallpox - another virus - died. ===== IMHO, there is a similarity between "Global Warming", "Climate Change", "Peak Oil", "SARS" and "CoronaVirus" : Rich people are neurotic.

“Be Fearful When Others Are Greedy and Greedy When Others Are Fearful” Warren Buffet

There is a real misconception being spread around, that people who are against mass immigration are hateful, this is wrong, for me this is all about love. Love of my identity, my culture, my countrymen and my country. I don't hate or wish violence on anyone, I simply want us to be left as we are. -- found on reddit

Fear is a virus, and you've been infected. Doesn't hurt to be prepared but let's keep things in perspective.

Protest is speech. Interfering with infrastructure you don't own isn't speech and is already illegal i assumed, but maybe there's a lack of specifics in the law they want to address. Nobody is telling protestors to be quiet, they're telling them to get off the tracks. You have no constitutional right to protest when it's interfering with the rights of others.

So really, who is actually protesting, and pn what planet do the words peaceful protest and AK-47 appear in the same sentence? Ottawa intends to infringe upon or usurp the Aboriginal rights of all those Indigenous people who want the pipeline, then the Trudeau government should come right out and say so. Either way, Ottawa should uphold the honour of the Crown, discharge its fiduciary duty to those Indigenous communities, and uphold the damn law. https://nationalpost.com/opinion/terry-glavin-uphold-the-rights-of-all-indigenous-canadians-not-just-anti-pipeliners we‘re leaving, we’re leaving on a strong note, not in defeat,'" said Trish Mills, a well-known Hamilton anarchist." Please remind me: Is Trish a hereditary leader of the Hamilton anarchists, or was Trish elected? https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-go-trains-cancelled-as-protesters-set-up-new-blockades-near-toronto/

I'm perfectly willing to stop all resource development to save the environment as long as we also end all the social welfare programs our economy pays for. You ready to do that?

You have no idea what you're talking about. Regardless of what 'rights and titles' the courts eventually decide on various spots of land all of it, including the reserves, is under the sovereignty of the Canadian government, and it's police can go anywhere they damned well want. They could tell them to fly unicorns around the sun and it would have as much authority. The RCMP have police powers across Canada and in every jurisdiction. They might not bother investigating crime in Toronto except for certain offenses, but they can, and they can also arrest any criminal they come across. PS. This is not the US. We don't HAVE 'federal offenses'. We have the criminal code of Canada. Another one of those far left socialist types screaming "Power to the aristocrats! Screw the people and their votes and referendums! Only the hereditary rulers matter!' Interesting position there, comrade.

I just think the way t go about achieving that can't be done blocking railway tacks. I also question people who are not indigenous now copy catting Mohawks. They wouldn't know a Mohawk from one of my tribe. They think we both have big noses. The issues about the environment can be dealt with. Next the way to deal with legal issues that remain resolved is through dialogue not tantrums and ultimatums by either side.

But you’re undoing your own argument. Not all cultures and traditions are equally progressive and helpful. I would imagine women’s rights mean something to you? That’s why most democracies oppose the sexist theocracies of the Middle East and don’t want to see those values imported into their countries. Stop pretending that all Indigenous cultures and political systems are of equal value. The idea of hereditary chiefs, except in a mostly ceremonial and symbolic way, is antithetical to liberal-democracy. So which system do you support? I watch our political leaders smudge and deliver land acknowledgments that bend the facts. The reality is that the elders in your city are not the stewards of the land. They are not maintaining the roads or expelling rodents. The religious Indigenous ceremonies are interesting cultural attributes, but no, I’m not going to the shaman for medical advice or letting murderers go to the healing lodge instead of jail. Get real. This is the 21st century and we shouldn’t be fetishizing anachronistic practices and imbuing them with more regard because of guilt over echoes of a colonialism none of started and very few of us would support. While there are some thriving Indigenous territories/reserves, and good for them, in the most desperate ones we see the phenomenon of the prisoner who has become so accustomed to living inside the prison community that it’s almost impossible to think of living a life outside prison. I’m not even proposing to free people who don’t want to be freed, but when you look at the Indian Act, status cards, and reservations, with their embedded colonial segregation, it’s no longer the non-Indigenous who want to keep this system. There are many Indigenous who want to hold onto this status, which is incentivized by free though unsaleable land and tax breaks. So the pressure to stay on the reserve and not marry outside your race is baked into the act. The more radical green movements that have joined these protests don’t seem to be helping the Indigenous because they have confused notions of what true Indigenous sovereignty really means (self-sustainability). Total independence probably isn’t possible or necessary for many of the bands to feel that they are thriving and keeping their traditions alive. First, let’s acknowledge the real dependence on and inclusion within Canada, and ascertain whether more or less integration is helpful. Indigenous must make these decisions for themselves, but let’s not pretend that people are more independent than they really are. Don’t ascribe more significance to UNDRIP than it deserves. People wrote these blue sky documents, in some cases with inadequate appreciation of the complexities and impacts of implementation. BC has shot itself in the foot with some of its moves, but that’s another story. Canadians have their own way which isn’t identical with how international lawyers and foreign service personnel in New York may think about Canadian contexts. The UN has many imperfections. It can be helpful and unhelpful.

Five of fifteen hereditary chiefs. The chattering classes (academics, media, politicians) have been wringing their hands with guilt for the last thirty years, constantly braying to anyone who is in range that Canada is a horrible place and its entire history is one of brutality, oppression and abuse of the poor, innocent native. Of course some people, especially the young and stupid have bought into this and have been busily wringing their hands in anguish over their ancestral guilt, too. Jonathan Kay puts it very well here, in explaining how the elites have been busily trying to deny Canada - well, excluding Quebec, of course - even has any legitimacy as a country. While it’s convenient to blame Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s indecisive leadership for the crisis, these events do not arise in a vacuum. Rather, they follow on years during which our political, academic and journalistic elites denounced Canada itself as an ugly scar on traditional Indigenous lands. Trudeau himself has spent much of his time in office pledging himself to somehow absolve Canada of this original sin, and one suspects that his exit plan from politics involves him becoming some kind of dean of reconciliationology at a Canadian university. Canada survived Quebec separatism in part because our elites mobilized a massive campaign of propaganda to convince citizens of the enduring importance of the Canadian project. But in regard to resolving the grievances of Indigenous peoples, those same elites are now committed to the exact opposite project: a whole vocabulary (“settler,” “neocolonial,” “appropriation,” etc.) and daily land-acknowledgment liturgy is broadcast 24/7 on the CBC, fetishized on social media and even broadcast as part of the morning announcements at public schools. Ultimately, this is why Trudeau felt checkmated by five Wet’suwet’en activists trying to torpedo a pipeline deal negotiated by their own legitimate elected band council. We’ve spent years declaring that Canada is garbage, hoping that an attitude of self-abasement would somehow lead us to “reconciliation.” We forgot that when garbage talks, no one listens. https://nationalpost.com/opinion/jonathan-kay-canadas-cultural-elites-have-seen-the-enemy-and-it-is-canadians

Whatever the issues are, copycats are now showing up at railroad tracks and most of them are not even indigenous peoples showing this has become an exercise for self-entitled guilty white folk who don't work. If they really cared this is not the way to go about offering constructive dialogue. This is what sheltered silver spoons do using indigenous people or the cause of the day to have their tantrums. At the end of their displays, these twats will go back home to Mama and dinner waiting.

I don’t believe that people should be able to cause damage to other people with impunity, especially by unlawful means. I am surprised that I have not heard of anyone seeking damages in a civil legal action.

You mean a government that forcefully bulldozes a clear path for industry - like the third world hell-holes that investors apparently view as being safe havens of political stability.

Trudeau has repeatedly said, "we are a country of the rule of law!" Now that the court of appeal has deemed the carbon tax for Alberta is unconstitutional, will Trudeau follow the rule of law and lift off that carbon tax?

I own the land I live on, but it doesn't give me the right to ban federal police from coming on my land. Unceded native land is their land but it's still within Canada, they don't live in their own sovereign country with their own laws, so why should they have any right to tell RCMP where to go? It's ridiculous. Aboriginals use the victim card to ignore the government actions they dislike, and also use the victim card to demand government action they like. Some of them want to kick RCMP off their land but also want free healthcare etc and blame the government when they don't have clean drinking water. This is Canada, you're either in or you're out. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Their elected councils have all agreed to the gasline, so clearly these protestors don't even speak for all the natives. Who speaks for these natives? Have the elected band councils ordered the RCMP off the land?

Thank you so much for all the facts you have and are presenting, DogOnPorch. I also thank you for the links.

So you're saying yes. The natives are too backward for democracy. I hadn't realized you were a white supremacist.

Your ignorance about the very basics of democracy is too.

Bruce McKelvie...journalist & BC historian is a good source for the story of life in pioneer BC as opposed to the fanciful modern view. It was a rough ride at times...like with any history. But nothing if not colourful and action packed. The Pageant of British Columbia is probably his most read work. But he had some Farley Mowat-like fiction stories, as well. Pelts and Powder, for example. https://gutenberg.ca/ebooks/mckelvieba-pageantofbc/mckelvieba-pageantofbc-00-h-dir/mckelvieba-pageantofbc-00-h.html Pauline Johnson would be another reliable source who wrote prolifically about her region. Legends of Vancouver is a collection of some of her various newspaper work. https://digital.library.upenn.edu/women/johnson/vancouver/vancouver.html

Excuse me?! No one 'negated' election results. They just didn't vote for him next time, a huge and unexpected loss due to his fascist attempts to use police violence against dissenting voters. Democracy in action, people pushing back against fascism, voting with their feet and at the ballot box.

Well- said!

No, no, no. The natives, all of them, were gentle, innocent children who loved flowers and nature. There was never any war, poverty or disease until the evil white people showed up.

Well, I'm starting to appreciate why my wife couldn't stand using this Surface Pro...sure a buggy POS, crashes lots...needs to reboot half a doz times a day to bring the cursor back...blecch Goodbye Microsoft I'm getting a Chromebook. I don't know if its Windows 10 or if Microsoft goes out of its way to make using google apps on their OS difficult but It's just to much of PITA.