Elton John denounces organized religion

[geoffrey]

Who in their right mind would CHOOSE a life style that has been condemed and deemed unacceptable by many in society? Who would CHOOSE a lifestyle that has had the capacity to render a person an outsider and create such unhappiness in their everyday lives?

Those freaky vampire people that are killing people left and right in this country?

I agree with the premise though, I don't think many gays choose to be so. Though they are some that do, I've talked to a couple of them. Very screwed up individuals... much like our vampires.

Where do these people comes from?

[Canadian Blue]

That is a pretty ignorant response, but what else can be expected from one of the brainwashed masses.

You keep making your Rabbi's rich, I'm going to spend my time and money on something worth while.

Wow, thats quite a bigoted response if I ever did hear one. Sounds like somebody knows very little about religion. I think the major problem with religion is the perversion of religion, not religion itself. Religion has done much good in society, as well as some harm. However, nearly every group in history could be guilty of injustice, not just religious groups.

Before making a blanket statement about Rabbi's you should try to learn a little bit more about the religion.

[Frankie]

On top of being a very talented musician, he was a smart man. It's true what he's saying, because religion was never meant to be in the first place. Religion itself is a distortion of true faith. Just read all the way back in Genesis, God didn't form a religion for Adam and Eve, but he formed a relationship. Same as when he formed a faith with Moses and the Israelites. He did make rules but were mainly formed to protect the Israelites.

And if you read Exodus all the way through, you see he says, "Love your nieghbor", over and over again. Because God understood that if a human being can love another human being who is not perfect, under the worst of cirmcumstances, he would be able to love God, who is perfect. It was about the feeling and faith. Then the Jews distorted the faith and built thier faith with brick walls and made it a religion. Then Jesus Christ himself, came down to tell everyone to change thier mind, and keep the faith, not the religion.

But of course it happened again and the Catholic church was formed as a religion, which was the very thing Christ came to abolish.

So there you have it, Even God doesn't like religion.

[sharkman]

Frankie, something tells me Elton doesn't like the Christians who believe in a relationship with God either. BTW, God told the Jews to build their temple and He ordained the religion that the Jews had before Christ.

[August1991]

But of course it happened again and the Catholic church was formed as a religion, which was the very thing Christ came to abolish.

Why do I suspect that you were raised a Protestant?

[Frankie]

Yah, I know all about Elton John, he's a good guy. It's ok he doesn't like Christians who believe in a relationship with God, he just made a piont I agreed with. And your right about the Jews, I mean they were God's people and Judiasm was the faith to God. But over time, and more specifically, the 400 years between the old and new testement, the Jews turned thier faith and relationship with thier God into a religion. And instead of the temple being a meeting place with God and other believers alike, it became a place of blindless tradition and worse, a place of profit and business. Which is exactly what God didn't want, and is why he sent Jesus.

And August1991, how did you know??

[Who's Doing What?]

Who cares why he denouced it atleast he got it right. Organized religion is for suckers. It has been perverted and corrupted since the beginning and imo exists for no other reason than to control the ignorant and uneducated. Which used to be 99% of the population. The smart followers are just scared of what will happen after they die.

Yes perverted and corrupted by atheist perverts infiltrating the church and masquerading as Christians. Elton John is a good example as to why him and his filth should be put back in the closet and the door locked.

UH.... Jimmy Baker, Pat Robertson, the lastest Meth using Gay preacher Haggard, how about the Catholic Priests who molested all those children. Were these people all athiests?

Wake up man you've been brainwashed.

Ever see the show Chris Angel Mind Freak?

He is a crazy illusionist who astounds peole in this day and age where science is widely taught. Keep that in mind.

Now most people/christians don't know that Jesus went to India during his "missing years". He learned mysticism form the Yogi's. It is actually in their texts. (read Paramahansa Yoganada) Now with his training in eastern mysticism, like the fabled climbing a rope that goes nowhere, imagine how he would have appeared to a bunch of uneducated, illiterate, scared and impoverished people. He would have appeard to have magical powers. Have you ever read the bible? Jesus himself says he is just a man, and that someday we will do as he does. I say Jesus was nothing more than a great illusionist, just like Chris Angel is.

[gerryhatrick]

I hate starting a new thread when so many exist about religion, but...

Don't feel bad. There's no rule against starting multiple threads about religion in the religion section of the forum.

[gerryhatrick]

Personally, I see homosexuality somewhat like I see celibacy: a chosen sexual lifestyle. It does not serve the societal purpose of procreation, but celibacy does not either.

That is the kookiest thing I've heard in a very long time.

Can I ask, are you a heterosexual?

Dear Gerry,

Rather than diverting the issue, is homosexuality a lifestyle, a condition, a disease, what is it, or what do you think it is?

BTW, do you like hockey? A hat trick is a three goal night. Is there any signifigance to the number three for you?

I wasn't diverting the issue, your answer was central to my point. But, if you're unwilling to answer I will make the point without.

Whatever your sexual orientation/lifestyle is, do you believe you could choose to begin having erotic sex with a gender opposite to what you are currently attracted to?

This is a fundamental question that the "homosexuality is a choice" croud cannot answer truthfully, because a truthful answer would demonstrate the falseness of their belief.

[Who's Doing What?]

That shows your utter ignorance. Rabbis, unlike, tel-evangelists, do not get rich. If there is any religion that has a "worthwhile" heritage, it is Judaism. I am fully prepared to discuss it rationally with anyone.

Wow, thats quite a bigoted response if I ever did hear one. Sounds like somebody knows very little about religion. I think the major problem with religion is the perversion of religion, not religion itself. Religion has done much good in society, as well as some harm. However, nearly every group in history could be guilty of injustice, not just religious groups.

Before making a blanket statement about Rabbi's you should try to learn a little bit more about the religion.

I would wager I know just as much about religion as you CB. Sure you may have an advantage on Judaism being jewish and all, but there are more religions than just yours.

So are you saying the Rabbi's live in poverty? Total BS.

The average rabbi's income is between $50,000 and $150,000 per year.

Source

$50,000 to $150,000 per year on average. Wow. Yet you say I'm a bigot for saying they are getting rich. Ya ok. I wish I could live as poorly as an average Rabbi.

[Liam]

Once again, a conversation gets pushed into gay bashing.

FWIW, Elton John spoke out against *organized* religion. I don't agree with him 100%, but I will say that in the past couple of decades, those who are most vocal about faith and values tend to fit nicely into EJ's description of being mean-spirited lemmings.

I don't agree that religion is bad. It provides a lot of people with comfort and sense of worth. Overall, it is of incredible value. But organized religion can be entirely different. Once you get up into the administration and bureaucracy associated with an organized religion, its beauty fades. A former priest friend of mine said that there was nothing more beautiful on Earth than the Catholic Church at the priest and nun level and nothing uglier on Earth than the Catholic Church at the Bishop and above level.

[Rue]

I hate starting a new thread when so many exist about religion, but...

http://start.shaw.ca/start/enCA/Entertainm...rc=e111113A.xml

"From my point of view, I would ban religion completely. Organized religion doesn't seem to work. It turns people into really hateful lemmings and it's not really compassionate."

I would say many people feel this way. However, 'banning religion' will never work. Just as 'banning homosexuality' wouldn't work. I'd rather see an all out debate about 'Which is the one true god?" (Or scripture...and the evidence for or against the existence of god, and 'truthfulness' of all religious texts, to be put to a worldwide trial)

And many people also feel religion is very benefical and gives them the strength to be forgiving. As a christian, I feel the gay lifestyle is wrong. However, I am not a 'hateful' lemming nor do I hate gays, which is the pet stereotype usually trotted out on this topic. For Elton to lash out at religions, it only shows his prejudices.

How does it show prejudice. He did not say anything offensive about any religious values of views particular to your faith or any other faith in a way that is negative. He criticized organized religion.

Sharkman do you even know what it means to be prejudice? Show me where he has said anything negative about your religion spefically.

Then again you are the same loving Christian who trys to tell me I am out to lunch because I find a fellow Christian repulsive when he writes of Jews and Muslims as pagans who should be left to kill each other and that Christians are superior. That you find acceptable.

Yah I have your number and please I know, you are a loving compassionate person. Give it a rest.

[MightyAC]

Elton is a gay man, a group of the population that has been demonized by religion, thus his comments are no surprise. I'd say they are a little inaccurate as some sects like the United and Anglican Churches and are quite accepting of homosexuals.

He does have a point though. Many followers of an organized religion do act like hateful lemmings. There are several examples in this thread alone. I find it hard to believe that anyone could hate someone they don't even know simply because a few men said they should over a thousand years ago. Oh well as time goes on tolerance on specific issues does seem to improve. We can only hope that more hateful lemmings are dying off than being created.

[newbie]

Elton is 100% correct. It's only when we rid ourselves of religious doctrine that we begin to realize how limiting and arrogance religion really is. Sprituality though is a completely different matter.

[betsy]

I hate starting a new thread when so many exist about religion, but...

http://start.shaw.ca/start/enCA/Entertainm...rc=e111113A.xml

"From my point of view, I would ban religion completely. Organized religion doesn't seem to work. It turns people into really hateful lemmings and it's not really compassionate."

I would say many people feel this way. However, 'banning religion' will never work. Just as 'banning homosexuality' wouldn't work. I'd rather see an all out debate about 'Which is the one true god?" (Or scripture...and the evidence for or against the existence of god, and 'truthfulness' of all religious texts, to be put to a worldwide trial)

And many people also feel religion is very benefical and gives them the strength to be forgiving. As a christian, I feel the gay lifestyle is wrong. However, I am not a 'hateful' lemming nor do I hate gays, which is the pet stereotype usually trotted out on this topic. For Elton to lash out at religions, it only shows his prejudices.

To me it also reveals the true agenda of the gay/lesbian proponents. If you cannot force your beliefs on the majority through flawed legislation and a liberal minded judiciary, why not ban the biggest opponents of the homosexual lifestyle, organized religions.

Since there is no hope of banning religion....proponents of this agenda have decided to do the next best thing: bash religion and dis-credit it, so much so that people will turn away from it. Start with the biggest of them all, the Christian religion.

[betsy]

To me homosexuality is not a choice, it is a biological difference. Who in their right mind would CHOOSE a life style that has been condemed and deemed unacceptable by many in society? Who would CHOOSE a lifestyle that has had the capacity to render a person an outsider and create such unhappiness in their everyday lives? Prior to the last 30 years people HAD to live secret lives because they were born homosexual. That would have been a barrel of fun huh?

I seriously think it can either be one of those: a choice or a biological difference.

Being a choice could stem from various factors and experiences. And it being a choice could vary in duration. I've seen some gay friends...and have also seen young men turn into gays and then, turn back into men again.

[betsy]

UH.... Jimmy Baker, Pat Robertson, the lastest Meth using Gay preacher Haggard, how about the Catholic Priests who molested all those children. Were these people all athiests?

I don't remember the scandal about Baker and Robertson and what's it about. But Haggard and some Catholic priests who molested young boys tell me they have one thing in common: they're gays. Although the priests molesting young boys also belong to the class, perverts.

[Drea]

To me homosexuality is not a choice, it is a biological difference. Who in their right mind would CHOOSE a life style that has been condemed and deemed unacceptable by many in society? Who would CHOOSE a lifestyle that has had the capacity to render a person an outsider and create such unhappiness in their everyday lives? Prior to the last 30 years people HAD to live secret lives because they were born homosexual. That would have been a barrel of fun huh?

I seriously think it can either be one of those: a choice or a biological difference.

Being a choice could stem from various factors and experiences. And it being a choice could vary in duration. I've seen some gay friends...and have also seen young men turn into gays and then, turn back into men again.

You mean some of their penises fell off and then were reattached -- they were men, were not men, then were men again.

A man is a human being with a penis and balls -- regardless of what he likes to do with them.

[betsy]

You mean some of their penises fell off and then were reattached -- they were men, were not men, then were men again.

Ho-ho, no they didn't fall off. They're retractable! The switch being either the left or the right ball....

[Drea]

Ho-ho, no they didn't fall off. They're retractable! The switch being either the left or the right ball....

That was sooooo funny! Yer killin' me Betsy

[Who's Doing What?]

Jimmy Baker - Adultery, Fraud - went to jail.

Pat Robertson - Called for the US to Assassinate the Venezuelan President Chavez.

Jimmy Swaggart - Consorting with a prostitute.

Link

[Shady]

From my point of view, I would ban religion completely

How would one go about banning religion anyways? Is he advocating kicking down people's doors, to make sure they're not reading the bible, or conducting mass? Does anyone else find it ironic, that, he, a person who doesn't want what he does in the privacy of his own home to be anyone else's business, advocating a position where people's privacy would have to be violated in order to carry out his ridiculous ban.

But of course, even though homosexuality may be genetic in origin doesn't make it a "disease".

No, it doesn't make it a disease. But it does make it a genetic abnormailty, that, with future technology could be corrected. Soon homosexuality may be a thing of the past.

the lastest Meth using Gay preacher Haggard, how about the Catholic Priests who molested all those children. Were these people all athiests?

Probably not, but it seems that they're all gay. After all, they're not preying (no pun intended) on little girls.

[betsy]

The fall of a lot of preachers and priests does not mean something is wrong with the religion.

It says either they had used the church for their own interest....or they, like all the rest of us humans, could also fall into sin.

Thus Christ had warned: beware of false prophets. And also beware of those who use His name.

[Who's Doing What?]

Probably not, but it seems that they're all gay.

What about Swaggart and Baker?

Not gay.

The whack job Pat Robertson advocating assassination is not gay. Atleast not to my knowledge.

Blaming it all on being gay is ludacris.

As a priest in central California, he molested dozens of girls and boys, seduced a few of their parents, even abused an infant.

Link

...he downloaded images of boys and girls being molested

Link

Nicki Rister said she was 17 when the parish priest, the Rev. Patrick O'Keeffe, coaxed her into having sex...O'Keeffe admitted in a letter that he molested her and other girls at various parishes in San Diego and San Bernardino.

Link

In addition, at least a dozen women have said they were sexually abused as girls at a former Jesuit-run Indian boarding school on the Colville Indian Reservation, according to the women's attorney.

Link

sexually abused young girls from their congregation for years

Link

A pastor was charged Monday with multiple counts of sexually abusing two girls who attended his church in the San Fernando Valley, prosecutors said.

Link

It is not because they are gay that they abuse children.

[gc1765]

Should we consider anyone who masturbates as someone who has a "disease"? Masturbation doesn't lead to children either.

I don't think anybody has linked masturbation to genetics. But of course, even though homosexuality may be genetic in origin doesn't make it a "disease".

Well, considering that about 99% of us humans masturbate, I think it's pretty safe to say that it's genetic