Why do conspiracy theories exist?

[kimmy]

I posted this in another thread, but I thought it was an interesting topic that might deserve a thread of its own:

So I was walking around campus today and some morons have gone around writing in colourful chalk "9/11 Inside Job" all over the place. Have they closed a lot of mental hospitals throughout North America recently? This thread is a complete joke.

I'm not sure about mental hospitals, but I think that the way these kinds of theories keep popping up must say something fundamental about the human mind.

In ancient times there were all sorts of fanciful mythologies developed to explain the natural world. Later, the organized religions that now dominate our world, and in particular some of the adherents of those religions who are so influenced that their entire lives are focused by these beliefs.

And then there are the "new age" beliefs... people who believe that they can perform magic, obtain energy from crystals, and so on.

Long-time readers of MapleLeafWeb know that we get occasional visits from fervent believers in NESARA. And orgones. And chem-trails.

And on and on.

So ... why? What draws people to these ideas? People seem drawn to the unobservable, in forms ranging from the merely far-fectched to the fanciful to the strange to the demented to the utterly ridiculous.

Is it built in? Hard-wired? Does our desire to build these mythologies and cling to them serve some sort of biological purpose, like a role in building tribes?

-k

[Figleaf]

If

Edited July 18, 2007 by Figleaf

[Riverwind]

If you seek an explanation, don't overlook the fact that SOMEtimes conspiracies are real.

Can you provide even one example?

[FTA Lawyer]

Why are you asking this?

Who do you work for?

What do you want with us?

FTA

[Figleaf]

lllll

Edited July 18, 2007 by Figleaf

[MightyAC]

Often truthes are witheld from the public. Also, many of us would really like to believe certain theories. The combination of bits of fact and bits of fiction with the fact that we are often lied to makes for interesting stories...and I think we all like a good story.

[newbie]

If you seek an explanation, don't overlook the fact that SOMEtimes conspiracies are real.

Can you provide even one example?

The press have uncovered many, to the point Watergate, Iran-Contra......

[PolyNewbie]

I'm not sure about mental hospitals, but I think that the way these kinds of theories keep popping up must say something fundamental about the human mind.

Do you think that people ought to just believe what they are told or look at the facts ?

[Black Dog]

To the list of real conspiracies, I'd add the 1933 Reichstag fire.

So ... why? What draws people to these ideas? People seem drawn to the unobservable, in forms ranging from the merely far-fectched to the fanciful to the strange to the demented to the utterly ridiculous.

Is it built in? Hard-wired? Does our desire to build these mythologies and cling to them serve some sort of biological purpose, like a role in building tribes?

Basically, it's a way to explain the world around them in a way that conforms to their preexisting beliefs.

Do you think that people ought to just believe what they are told or look at the facts ?

Thing is, "facts" are in the eye of the beholder.

[Figleaf]

To the list of real conspiracies, I'd add the 1933 Reichstag fire.

So ... why? What draws people to these ideas? People seem drawn to the unobservable, in forms ranging from the merely far-fectched to the fanciful to the strange to the demented to the utterly ridiculous.

Is it built in? Hard-wired? Does our desire to build these mythologies and cling to them serve some sort of biological purpose, like a role in building tribes?

Basically, it's a way to explain the world around them in a way that conforms to their preexisting beliefs.

Do you think that people ought to just believe what they are told or look at the facts ?

Thing is, "facts" are in the eye of the beholder.

That may be true of "facts", but not of facts.

[Wilber]

That may be true of "facts", but not of facts.

The trick is knowing the difference.

[kimmy]

Ok, suppose we set aside 9/11 theories, because that is just sidetracking the thread. And we can leave out the major religions, because that'll sidetrack the thread too. In the interest of harmony, let's stick with stuff like David Icke and his 8-foot tall lizards. Or NESARA. Or Orgones. Or chem-trails. I am sure that everybody here can at least agree that *that* stuff is completely nuts.

There seems to be no rational reason to believe that the British royals, the Bush family, and Boxcar Willie are actually 8-foot tall lizards. There seems to be no rational reason to believe that Jesus is returning on a rocket ship with a legion of "star angels" to declare a one-world government and cancel everybody's credit card debts. Or that the vapors left behind by airplanes are actually Secret Mind Control chemicals.

But, there seem to be a considerable number of people who believe in exactly those things. We've had more than a few visits to this forum from people trying to propagandize for these very ideas. What attracts people to such *bullshit*?

Black Dog suggests:

Basically, it's a way to explain the world around them in a way that conforms to their preexisting beliefs.

But ... I'm not sure that's satisfactory. I mean, if 8-foot tall lizards are the answer... ...what was the question?!

I earlier proposed that there might be something hardwired into the human mind that makes us want to believe in things. I'm sure I'm not the originator of the notion, but I don't know where I might have become acquainted with it.

Humans have always rallied together around beliefs, even nonsensical ones.

Tribes. Clans. Religions. Political parties. Nations. "Granfalloonery."

Currently, we who believe in Mighty Mullet band together to support him, and to oppose those who follow the sinister Eighty-Three Teeth.

Does professional sport fill a void in our modern lives by creating a fictitious tribe to be part of?

And if so, could this be the same void that draws people to these kooky theories? While I could (perhaps...) believe that some of these outrageous ideas might help someone rationalize the world around them, isn't it likely that identifying with these ideas meets some sort of need to have a cause or a crusade or something to belong to?

-k

[Figleaf]

[

Edited July 18, 2007 by Figleaf

[August1991]

Kimmy, I don't know if you've ever had a job where you were exposed to large volumes of mail from the general public. I have had several and one involved opening the mail addressed to a credit card company. Every day, we would receive several letters addressed to us in a strange scrawl, sometimes with cash inside and a long convoluted letter, sometimes written on a credit card application form. The script often carried up the side of the margin and on to the other side. There was reference to a non-existent account number.

I once met a woman in Eastern Europe, presentable, intelligent, who wanted to talk to me about immigrating to Canada. After explaining what I knew about procedures, I asked why she wanted to move. She matter of factly answered that the Israelis had implanted a radio device in her teeth and Canada was far enough from the transmitters that she would be able to elude them.

If 1% of the world is crazy, that means there are 60 million crazy people wandering about. Ten years ago, you may have met one once or twice in a lifetime. These people are attracted to the Internet in the same way that they used to write letters to PO Box 5000 or to the Editor of the Globe & Mail. Anybody famous deals with such people on a daily basis.

I'm not at all surprised that the Internet has many conspiracy kooks.

----

I fear that won't answer your question. So let me try another way.

Mark Steyn would have us believe that Islamofascists (or just Muslims) represent the greatest threat to Western Civilization. I fear the greatest threat is from people who don't understand the scientific method, and the world has far too many such people.

Go and rent The Name of the Rose or even better, read the book. Sean Connery's character, William of Baskerville, is based on the real life monk, William of Occam.

Conspiracy theorists typically believe in a deus ex machina that appears and explains everything. They resemble the medieval monks William had to confront.

Thing is, "facts" are in the eye of the beholder.

You can drive off the post-modern cliff if you want to BD but I'm going to stay with the objective fact that the cliff exists.

[kimmy]

... In the interest of harmony, let's stick with stuff like David Icke and his 8-foot tall lizards. Or NESARA. Or Orgones. Or chem-trails. I am sure that everybody here can at least agree that *that* stuff is completely nuts.

1. I don't think it's viable to pigeonhole some 'conspiracies' as loony just based on individual feelings of what seems far-fetched. To some it was no doubt unthinkable that Nixon could be a crook. But he was.

We have thousands of years of examples that demonstrate that men and women are capable of dishonesty, so the notion that Nixon might be dishonest is hardly unthinkable by any objective observer.

On the other hand, we have no documented cases of humans transmogrifying into 8 foot tall talking lizards, and there's no rational reason to suggest that such a thing ever has happened or ever will happen.

Besides, why would you dismiss orgones out of hand?

Because they're stupid?

I put them in the same catagory as 8 foot lizards because the notion of people with crystals on sticks changing the weather or acquiring super-powers by sleeping in a tin-foil box seems completely bonkers.

There seems to be no rational reason to believe that the British royals, the Bush family, and Boxcar Willie are actually 8-foot tall lizards. ....

Likewise there is no rational reason to believe in 'original sin', or that an ancient guy's death could somehow expiate it. Or that there are 72 virgins awaiting suicide bombers in heaven, or that the world rests on 4 elephants standing on a turtle.

Well, I agree completely (click on "fanciful" and "strange" in the original post.)

However, in a cowardly effort to avoid controversy and keep this thread from getting derailed, I decided to leave major religions out of the discussion, as I mentioned in my last post.

Does professional sport fill a void in our modern lives by creating a fictitious tribe to be part of?

And if so, could this be the same void that draws people to these kooky theories?

I don't think a desire to belong is particularly consonant with conspiracy theorists, whose beliefs usually seem to set them apart rather than draw them closer to others.

Though, persecution seems to be a common thread among conspiracy theories. It seems common among a number of these theories that "the Man" (in some form or another) is threatened by their ideas and is trying to keep "the Truth" from being known. You know. Traditional scientists try to discredit Orgones because it threatens their livelyhood. The Z.O.G. controls the police and the courts. The Illuminati control the media. The 8 foot tall lizards control the highest reaches of political power. Bush and Cheney are trying to suppress knowledge of NESARA to keep Rocket Jesus and the Star Angels away and maintain their grasp on power. etc etc.

Maybe these people find some sort of personal validation in being persecuted. Maybe believing that you're being persecuted because you're a threat to The Man is better for your self-esteem than admitting you're persecuted because you're a smelly deadbeat.

... isn't it likely that identifying with these ideas meets some sort of need to have a cause or a crusade or something to belong to?

That seems more likely, but why pick giant lizards when the local food bank needs volunteers? There must be something more at work.

How about the "Matrix" fantasy? You've seen the movie, right? Keanu Reeves, as "Neo", learns that the entire world is actually a computer simulation designed to keep human minds entertained and enslaved... and the only ones that know the truth are Neo and his rebel cohorts. There seems to be some appeal to believing that you're in on a big secret that everybody else is ignorant of.

-k

[Charles Anthony]

There seems to be some appeal to believing that you're in on a big secret that everybody else is ignorant of.

That is what I believe is the main answer.

In general, I believe that the single greatest appeal towards conspiracy or kookiness is entertainment. It is exciting. Everybody wants to be in on a secret.

Furthermore, most people do not have the discipline to keep a secret. We all get a thrill out of being the one to tell a secret to somebody who is not in "the know" yet.

Also, it reduces our load for personal responsibility. Like astrology, we look to explain things using things that are beyond our control. That way, we do not have to work hard to make them succeed nor take as much blame when they fail.

I earlier proposed that there might be something hardwired into the human mind that makes us want to believe in things. I'm sure I'm not the originator of the notion, but I don't know where I might have become acquainted with it.

Humans have always rallied together around beliefs, even nonsensical ones.

Animals do the same.

I always wonder why it is that a flock of sheep will fearfully run away from a little barking dog when they could easily turn around and trample him.

I also wonder how it is that somebody can promise "Reduced waiting times!" as part of an election platform and get so many people to subscribe. It would make more sense to hear "Freedom and justice for all!" or "Pie in the sky!" instead.

Mental illness (paranoia is often part of schizophrenia) as Aug91 suggested can undoubtedly explain the propagation of conspiracy theories too. The recipe is perfect: take a lazy smart-aleck and add a few nut-cases. Voila!

[Figleaf]

... In the interest of harmony, let's stick with stuff like David Icke and his 8-foot tall lizards. We have thousands of years of examples that demonstrate that men and women are capable of dishonesty, so the notion that Nixon might be dishonest is hardly unthinkable by any objective observer.

Objective observer? What? Who?

Who's to say what's 'objective'?

On the other hand, we have no documented cases of humans transmogrifying into 8 foot tall talking lizards, and there's no rational reason to suggest that such a thing ever has happened or ever will happen.

We had no documented cases of planets beyond Saturn either, until someone documented them.

Besides, why would you dismiss orgones out of hand?

... the notion of people with crystals on sticks changing the weather or acquiring super-powers by sleeping in a tin-foil box seems completely bonkers.

Seeming completely bonkers (to you) scarcely rises to the level of thorough refutation.

(I'm not being difficult just for the sake of it... I'm trying to make a point about the nature of proof and belief.)

... persecution seems to be a common thread among conspiracy theories. It seems common among a number of these theories that "the Man" (in some form or another) is threatened by their ideas and is trying to keep "the Truth" from being known.

Yes,... the nature of a conspiracy does imply a confrontation between the insider's desire for secrecy and the outsider's desire to puncture it. Perhaps this confrontation is appealing for some participants.

... There seems to be some appeal to believing that you're in on a big secret that everybody else is ignorant of.

Yes, that sounds creditable as well. We're making progress here now.

[jbg]

I posted this in another thread, but I thought it was an interesting topic that might deserve a thread of its own:

So I was walking around campus today and some morons have gone around writing in colourful chalk "9/11 Inside Job" all over the place. Have they closed a lot of mental hospitals throughout North America recently? This thread is a complete joke.

*snip*

Is it built in? Hard-wired? Does our desire to build these mythologies and cling to them serve some sort of biological purpose, like a role in building tribes?

-k

If people accepted the straightforward versions of stories like the Holocaust, September 11, etc. they'd have to confront real evil. Conspiracy theories offer a way to slip and slide aroun that, and blame, essentially, ourselves for things that people that need to be fought and killed do,

[PolyNewbie]

Conspiracies have probably existed longer than idiots and likely started when a cave man decided to club his buddies wife over the head and drag her into his cave. At that time idiots could not resist the natural forces of nature that would prohibit their survival.

Some more recent conspiracies include putting Saddam Hussein in power, overthrowing Irans elected government to put the Shah in place, destroying the popular government in Haiti to put war criminals in charge, (as in Afganistan) the destruction of the US economy with its replacement of a manufactering economy to one based on service, the list is endless.

[jbg]

Conspiracies have probably existed longer than idiots and likely started when a cave man decided to club his buddies wife over the head and drag her into his cave. At that time idiots could not resist the natural forces of nature that would prohibit their survival.

Some more recent conspiracies include putting Saddam Hussein in power, overthrowing Irans elected government to put the Shah in place, destroying the popular government in Haiti to put war criminals in charge, (as in Afganistan) the destruction of the US economy with its replacement of a manufactering economy to one based on service, the list is endless.

Not sure I follow. Are you saying these were conspiracies or are conspiracies in some fevered minds?

[Who's Doing What?]

Why do they exist?

They're fun, exciting, fuel the imagination and feed our need to believe the worst in people.

[jbg]

Why do they exist?

They're fun, exciting, fuel the imagination and feed our need to believe the worst in people.

Very good insight.

[Ladyjen]

Everybody has a little detective in them and thank heavens we do. I couldn't just believe everything the government tells me without questioning some of it. When a cop goes to the scene of a death he/she doesn't just call the coroner to take the body away without doing some investigating. I take most conspiracy theories with a grain of salt but some have merit.

[PolyNewbie]

Some more recent conspiracies include putting Saddam Hussein in power, overthrowing Irans elected government to put the Shah in place, destroying the popular government in Haiti to put war criminals in charge, (as in Afganistan) the destruction of the US economy with its replacement of a manufactering economy to one based on service, the list is endless.

Not sure I follow. Are you saying these were conspiracies or are conspiracies in some fevered minds?

These are all facts. The criminal government was was put in place of Haitis popular elected government by JTF and the US marines. JTF guarded the airport while the marines went in and captured Aristide. This information has been given in a multitude of ways. Aristide himself explains it on an interview on Democracy Now. There was also a History channel documentary on it.

This is always done to third world countries because the oligarchy that has you brainwashed want control of Haiti to prevent a popular government from taking control. People are not going to make running shoes and T shirts for us at slave labour rates unless they are forced to.

Ex CIA people have been comming out about the truth about Afganistan since the 70's. If you look at the UN statistics or can remember the news before sept 11 (mainstream TV news) you will recall that the Taliban was burning the opium crops. Sept 11 happened giving us an excuse to go in and restore the opium trade. It also made people forget about Sept 10 2001 - Rumsfeld announced (On TV) that 2.3 trillion dollars just somehow dissapeared and cannot be traced. Sept 11th let you forget about that. Thats over 8 K of debt for every living American.

Before sept 11 the opium trade was at 400 billion per year. The Taliban went in, burned the crops and cut that down by 90 % in a matter of months. We went in right after Sept 11 and a few months later the crops were back in full production, now at 600 billion per year, of which the Afgan farmers get about 1- 3 % of their value. This is also backed up by UN stats.

Even Noam Chomsky writes about the CIA drug trade and them bringing drugs in on air force jets. Do you really think we would have so much drugs if governments didn't want them here?

History shows that concentrations of power such as what we have now work against people. We have a concentration of financial powers now that rivals Germany in the 30's. Mao, Stalin, Hitler & others IN THIS CENTURY have all had mass extermination camps.

Hitler Mao & Stalin were all run by the same international bankers that currently own both the democrats and republicans. We also have currently about 800 concentration camps equiped with asphixiation gas chambers. Germans didn't believe it in the 30's any more than you believe it now.

You have to wonder when the media is owned by about 10 corporations and the Pentagon spends billions per year managing your belief system (mainstream news again). If your beliefs exactly coincide with what they want you to believe, perhaps its because you don't want your tax dollars wasted. Maybe its just cowardice - the truth is hard to face sometimes.

All these other people have been fooled - but not you ! You are too smart to be fooled like this ! - you watch TV ! - much smarter than the 6 million Jews that died in ww2.

[Hasan Ali Tokuqin]

life is not a secret.It is mathematics.if you know how it works.it is fun.otherwise it is hell.

check:

www.fractalwisdom.com