Is it time to throw out multiculturalism

[August1991]

Canadians are enthusiastic about the concept of multiculturalism because they take it to mean the idea that people will wear colorful robes and funny hats, and play unusual musical instruments and do entertaining little jigs at special events.

Some Canadians are enthusiastic about multiculturalism because it means they are neither English nor French.

For example, Ramon Hnatyshyn is a multicultural-kind-of-guy. He spells his name funny.

[yam]

What exactly is the thread title tryng to ask?

Throw it out where?

When actually is the correct time to do this?

And what for?

it seems that we have not really broached the case at hand yet.

[M.Dancer]

A study in Sweden found that over 90% of third generation Turkish "Swedes" went "Home" to Turkey to find a proper wife, so they could raise their children as proper Turks.

Wow...a number that large should have a link...i think

FYI, I already discredited that number in another thread.

The original quote was something like '90% of Turkish immigrants went home to find a wife, including some third generation immigrants'. Then a columnist mangled it to say that 90% of THIRD generation immigrants went home.

That's another example of internet non-intelligence, and the telephone game on www.

I'm afraid I don't understand. The quote you produced was the following:

In fact, rather than marrying locally, most Turks, 95 percent in Rockwool’s reckoning, still import a Turkish wife even in the third generation.

This is a slight variation of the above, but not entirely dissimilar. I don't see it as discrediting the quote at all, but rather, reinforcing the point. Which is that it's awfully hard to say people are going to assimilate in the next generation when the children of immigrants are going back "home" to get a proper wife or husband, and thus continue to raise the next generation in the foreign culture in which they themselves were raised.

Hmmm....someone's reckoning becomes a "study" and 95% of Turks becomes 3rd generation turks...lets not even consider the skewing of the generations....ie 100 new immigrants plus.....25 adult 1st genration plus......2 3rd generation adults...forget that.....this so -called reinforced point should should be packaged and sold at a garden centre for enriching soil.

[M.Dancer]

Wow...a number that large should have a link...i think

Try googling "Malmo", "Islam" and either "violence", "rape" or "police".

Try providing a link

[Argus]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/Pag...rce_login=false

The Globe editorial today says that Muslim immigrants in Canada and the U.S. are better paid and better educated that the average Canadian and U.S. citizen. They are also less vulnerable to radicals that our European counterparts.

There are always exceptions, of course, but there are less disenfranchised Muslim citizens in North America.

Your link doesn't say anything of the sort. It says "This is only available to people dumb enough to pay us money to read our uneducated opinions."

[Argus]

The fact that Ontario said no to Sharia tribunals, the fact that the College of Physicians won't let you have your daughter's clit lopped off, the fact that murdering an adulterous spouse or daughter is still considered murder in this country,

Except in the BC Sikh community and by the RCMP.

[jdobbin]

Your link doesn't say anything of the sort. It says "This is only available to people dumb enough to pay us money to read our uneducated opinions."

I guess only well educated and well paid Muslims can afford to read it.

[Argus]

Your link doesn't say anything of the sort. It says "This is only available to people dumb enough to pay us money to read our uneducated opinions."

I guess only well educated and well paid Muslims can afford to read it.

Do you have a cite for that?

[jdobbin]

Do you have a cite for that?

Right there.

http://transobj.workopolis.com/servlet/Con...on=Student-Jobs

[August1991]

We've come full circle if Dobbin is using the US as an example for multiculturalism. In fact, the US is the so-called melting pot where everyone becomes American before being anything else, and any American is free to pursue the American dream.

[jdobbin]

We've come full circle if Dobbin is using the US as an example for multiculturalism. In fact, the US is the so-called melting pot where everyone becomes American before being anything else, and any American is free to pursue the American dream.

Don't know that I indicated that the U.S. or Canada is an example of multiculturalism. I think I said that by the third generation, many descendents of immigrants have very little connection to their country of origin. They pretty much identify with the country they were born in.

[jbg]

Wow...a number that large should have a link...i think

Try googling "Malmo", "Islam" and either "violence", "rape" or "police".

Try providing a link

Try this link - excerpts below

Muslim Rape Epidemic in Sweden and Norway -

Authorities Look the Other Way

Numbers released in January 2005 indicate a sharp rise in the number of rape charges in Malmö, Sweden’s third largest city:

Thomas Anderberg, responsible for statistics at the Malmö Police, says there was a doubling of the number of reported rapes by ambush in 2004, following what was already a decade of steadily increasing numbers of sexual crimes. - I think that’s great news, says Anna Gustafsson, head of the Domestic Violence Unit at the Malmö Police. She suggests that the increase is due to the fact that women who otherwise wouldn’t press charges for rape now choose to contact the police.

In other words, Gustafsson claims that we are dealing with a “technical” increase, not a real one. However, national statistics reveal that reported rapes against children have almost doubled in Sweden during the past ten years:

According to Swedish Radio on Tuesday, statistics from Sweden’s National Council for Crime Prevention show that the number of reported rapes against children is on the rise. The figures have nearly doubled in the last ten years: 467 rapes against children under the age of 15 were reported in 2004 compared with 258 in 1995. Legal proceedings continue this week in a case involving a 13 year old girl from Motala who was said to have been subjected to a group rape by four men. (Note: These four men were Kurdish Muslims, who raped the girl for hours and even took photos of doing so)

The number of rape charges per capita in Malmö is 5 – 6 times that of Copenhagen, Denmark. Copenhagen is a larger city, but the percentage of immigrants is much lower. And it’s not just the rape statistics that reveal a scary increase in Malmö or Sweden. Virtually every kind of violent crime is on the rise. Robberies have increased with 50 % in Malmö only during the fall of 2004. Threats against witnesses in Swedish court cases have quadrupled between 2000 and 2003. During the past few decades, massive immigration has changed the face of Sweden’s major cities, as well as challenged the viability of the welfare state. In 1970 Sweden had the fourth highest GDP per capita among developed countries with income about 6% above the OECD average. By 1997 it was at fifteenth place with an average GDP per capita 14% below average. Malmö has a heavy concentration of Muslim immigrants in particular. According to some estimates, it will be a Muslim majority city in no more then 10 years. Crime is rampant in the growing ghettos:

Becirov runs the Islamic Center of Malmö, on the outskirts of Sweden's third-largest city. Some immigrant neighborhoods in the city have (official) unemployment rates exceeding 50 percent. Swedish authorities have failed to lift up the area, and seem to be giving the Islamic Center of Malmö a great deal of leeway in attempting to do so. An article that appeared in 2003 noted that "a few" of the 6-to 10-year-old girls were wearing headscarves. On a visit in January 2005, fully 80 percent were covered in class--only a handful were not. In a fit of absent-mindedness, Sweden has suddenly become as heavily populated by minorities as any country in Europe. The percentage of foreign-born is roughly equivalent to the highest percentage of immigrants the United States ever had in its history (on the eve of World War I). Rosengård appears to be all-immigrant. The public schools have virtually no ethnically Swedish children. There are stories--familiar in other parts of Europe where immigrants from the Muslim world have recently settled--of students harassing Jewish teachers and defacing textbooks that treat Jewish themes. Crime is high.

Is it unfair and “racist” to suggest a link between the influx of Muslim immigrants and the growing number of rapes? Not if we compare with the situation in neighboring Denmark, where this trend has been evident for years:

*snip*

The conclusion one may draw from this is that the authorities in Sweden and Norway know about, or should know about, a disturbing amount of Muslim immigrant rapes of native Scandinavian women, yet choose not to make this information known to the public. Perhaps it would be just too politically incorrect to reveal the negative effects of decades of naïve immigration policies. Perhaps it would also destroy too many multicultural pipe dreams among the intellectual elites, who have built their current careers and reputations on advocating how culturally and economically enriching this new population mix would be. So in the end, the safety of young Scandinavian women is sacrificed in order to keep the glossy image of a multicultural society intact. It is a chilling demonstration of an Eurabian continent that now appears to care more about not upsetting relations with its immigrant population than about protecting its own citizens.

posted by Fjordman @ 5:00 PM

[Michael Hardner]

The conclusion one may draw from this is that the authorities in Sweden and Norway know about, or should know about, a disturbing amount of Muslim immigrant rapes of native Scandinavian women, yet choose not to make this information known to the public.

The information should be made public. Otherwise, articles such as this will reach conclusions based on nothing but 'stories'. If there's a problem then let's talk about it.

As it is, the article contradicts itself. As the article states - there is no information. Yet they have no qualms about reaching conclusions based on anecdotal evidence.

[jbg]

The conclusion one may draw from this is that the authorities in Sweden and Norway know about, or should know about, a disturbing amount of Muslim immigrant rapes of native Scandinavian women, yet choose not to make this information known to the public.

The information should be made public. Otherwise, articles such as this will reach conclusions based on nothing but 'stories'. If there's a problem then let's talk about it.

As it is, the article contradicts itself. As the article states - there is no information. Yet they have no qualms about reaching conclusions based on anecdotal evidence.

Try googling further. The descent into lawlessness of Malmo, Sweden upon receiving a large Muslim immigrant popularton is a disturbing issue.

[kimmy]

Canadians are enthusiastic about the concept of multiculturalism because they take it to mean the idea that people will wear colorful robes and funny hats, and play unusual musical instruments and do entertaining little jigs at special events.

Some Canadians are enthusiastic about multiculturalism because it means they are neither English nor French.

For example, Ramon Hnatyshyn is a multicultural-kind-of-guy. He spells his name funny.

I'm of neither English nor French extraction (as I've mentioned the odd time. ) And my family name would also be spelled kinda funny, had not dad's family adopted an Anglicized spelling upon their arrival in North America. Did dropping the superfluous "a" and "s" from our last name transform us from Swedes into Anglos?

I've actually obtained the "old country" costume, including funny bonnet. I'm even considering attempting to learn the language. I'm not sure why; there's no rational reason to invest the effort. Dad and his siblings don't speak the language or have any of the traditional clothes. Dad and his siblings were raised by parents who were eager to embrace their new home. They wanted to fit in within their new homeland, not cling to things that set them apart.

There seems to be some question as to what actually constitutes multiculturalism, some question of line-drawing. Does welcoming folks with funny names or other skin-tones make us multicultural? Does welcoming folks with funny hats and tasty food make us multicultural? Or are those things superficialities? Do we only become truly multicultural if we allow people to practice their traditions and beliefs, in whole, in the way they're practiced "back home"?

I personally believe that while Canadians are quite comfortable with the superficialities-- different hats, skin-tones, cullinary peculiarities, names-- we're still quite averse to embracing foreign cultures more fully... and I personally believe that's for the best.

-k

[NativeCharm]

Multiculturalism...

It would be most challenging to simply 'dismiss' or discard it considering the abundance of vibrant multiculturalism in Native nations within Canada. Haida, Dene, Saulteaux, Cree, Ojibwe, Iroquois, Metis, Inuit...where do all all these cultures fit in the picture? They are all distinctly different cultures. Pretend they dont exist? assimilate them to be "majority' as much as possible? Can't exactly put them back on the boat.

How do you " throw out multiculturalism"?

Getting rid of taxes is more likely to happen, as we are already a multicultural farmland. An ancient one at that.

[M.Dancer]

Wow...a number that large should have a link...i think

Try googling "Malmo", "Islam" and either "violence", "rape" or "police".

Try providing a link

Try this link - excerpts below

Okay, you found a blog...no have you found soimething credible, I'm not intrested in wasting my time with blogs

[Leafless]

How do you " throw out multiculturalism"?

You throw out the 'policy' which unfortunately includes the 'Charter of rights and Freedoms'.

[Michael Hardner]

Try googling further. The descent into lawlessness of Malmo, Sweden upon receiving a large Muslim immigrant popularton is a disturbing issue.

Googling on the issue turns up blogs and opinions that agree on the source of the problem, and studies that look at it more objectively.

We have already seen an example where facts are altered in order to convince people of a problem. I suggest we should look to academic studies of crime as they have to meet standard for proving their theses. The aforementioned problem, though, is that some governments won't collect data based on race or other factors.

[Black Dog]

We've come full circle if Dobbin is using the US as an example for multiculturalism. In fact, the US is the so-called melting pot where everyone becomes American before being anything else, and any American is free to pursue the American dream.

Depending on how you define the term (I think Kimmy's funny hats definition about sums it up), the U.S. is a de facto multicultural society. If it were not, then there would be no Chinatowns, Little Italies, or barrios. The "melting pot" is primarily symbolic, just as Canadian multicultralism is primarily symbolic.

Incidentally, this discussion parralells the theme of a novel I'm reading which is set in 1970's Birmingham in the UK, and contains numerous references to Enoch Powell and his "River of Blood" speech. I find it quite interesting that the same fears are still being played out almost 40 years later.

[Argus]

How do you " throw out multiculturalism"?

You throw out the 'policy' which unfortunately includes the 'Charter of rights and Freedoms'.

Nonsense. The policy has zip to do with the Charter.

BTW, throwing out the Charter would only be "unfortunate" if you were a lawyer.

[Argus]

Depending on how you define the term (I think Kimmy's funny hats definition about sums it up), the U.S. is a de facto multicultural society. If it were not, then there would be no Chinatowns, Little Italies, or barrios. The "melting pot" is primarily symbolic, just as Canadian multicultralism is primarily symbolic.

There's multiculturalism and then there's multiculturalism. You're expected to venerate your ancestors in the US, to be proud of where you came from, but that, ultimately, is supposed to take a back seat to being AMERICAN. Nothing wrong with that. Then there's the UK... a sad place, indeed. I remember years ago reading that the school board in London had yanked Black Beauty for it's "racist connotations", ie, a white girl riding a Black horse, symbolic of the oppression and slavery of Blacks by Whites, don'tchaknow. And then there's this Sad example of gutless cowtowing to immigrants

Canada wasn't as bad as the UK, because while the NDP and much of the LIberal party worshipped multiculturalism in the same way the British socialists did conservatives opposed it. We were thus able to act as something of a brake on liberal and socialist stupidity.

[jbg]

I personally believe that while Canadians are quite comfortable with the superficialities-- different hats, skin-tones, cullinary peculiarities, names-- we're still quite averse to embracing foreign cultures more fully... and I personally believe that's for the best.

-k

How's that different from the American "melting pot"? And by the way, what language did you learn if not Swedish, Canadian?

[Black Dog]

There's multiculturalism and then there's multiculturalism. You're expected to venerate your ancestors in the US, to be proud of where you came from, but that, ultimately, is supposed to take a back seat to being AMERICAN. Nothing wrong with that.

Yeah. And how is Canadian multicultralism different in practice?

hen there's the UK... a sad place, indeed. I remember years ago reading that the school board in London had yanked Black Beauty for it's "racist connotations", ie, a white girl riding a Black horse, symbolic of the oppression and slavery of Blacks by Whites, don'tchaknow.

That was South Africa.

And then there's this Sad example of gutless cowtowing to immigrants

Of course the articles wrong. It's nothing to do with the Crusades, but the fact that St. George's Cross has been adopted by white supremacist groups like the National Front (much as Canadian hate groups love the old Red Ensign).

[Argus]

There's multiculturalism and then there's multiculturalism. You're expected to venerate your ancestors in the US, to be proud of where you came from, but that, ultimately, is supposed to take a back seat to being AMERICAN. Nothing wrong with that.

Yeah. And how is Canadian multicultralism different in practice?

Well, for one thing, you're not supposed to be proud of Canada except insofar as we are multicultural. When you see some people here talk about how they are proud of Canada, what do they bring up? Multiculturalism, tolerance, health care. Geeeze. That's a huge heaping cry from what gives pride to Americans.

then there's the UK... a sad place, indeed. I remember years ago reading that the school board in London had yanked Black Beauty for it's "racist connotations", ie, a white girl riding a Black horse, symbolic of the oppression and slavery of Blacks by Whites, don'tchaknow.

That was South Africa.

No, it was London. There are any number of such stories from the UK. Their multicuralism is taken to an insane degree.

And then there's this Sad example of gutless cowtowing to immigrants

Of course the articles wrong. It's nothing to do with the Crusades, but the fact that St. George's Cross has been adopted by white supremacist groups like the National Front (much as Canadian hate groups love the old Red Ensign).

Doesn't matter why Muslims had the red ensign. The point was the prison being spineless enough to take down their own nation's flag because some muslims might not like it.