CDC will not publish report showing COVID vaccine effectiveness

[Deluge]

10 minutes ago, John Stone said:

They're necessary to prevent the spread of disease.......... on a logarithmic scale. 

I agree, ya can take a donkey to water but ya can't force him to drink. 😁

Since the vax pushers can't be trusted, it's better to just be smart and wash your hands.  

[User]

7 minutes ago, Goddess said:

A large chunk of what is not identified?

Gee... look at the picture you shared. What does it say? That a huge chunk of the people were unknown in vaccinated or unvaccinated status. 

8 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Ya, I remember us having this conversation before.  You believe that that once a significant portion of the population is vaccinated against something, the reasonable view is that there will be MORE of them in hospital or dead.

No, that was the lie you kept repeating instead of responding to what I actually said. In the thread you ran away from this discussion on. 

But like others, you run away, then just resurface the same crap again. 

10 minutes ago, Goddess said:

That's not how vaccination is supposed to work.  It's the whole point of them.  You don't get to claim the vaccines are so effective that they reduced hospitalization and death and also argue that when they don't, it's proof they're working.  I can't be the only one here that sees the absurdity of your statement:

"When a significant portion of the population is vaccinated, more of them will be hospitalized."

Listen, this is the dishonesty you are engaged in here. You make up shit I didn't say and now you put quotes around something I didn't say as if I did. 

The argument is and was quite clear, it is about how statistics work and how disease works and the totality of the circumstances. 

You want to play these games because the facts do not support you. 

If I say that seatbelts have a 90% effectiveness rate at stopping death in car crashes, but more people drive so deaths go up... that doesn't mean seatbelts were not 90% effective or bad or didn't work... it means the sample size increased so more people were in that 10% not working and more people driving without seatbelts at all... 

 

13 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Well, I would say hospitalization is an outcome.

And a death would be severe.

So I'm not sure how you're claiming it's void of that data. What severity or outcome are you looking for?

Hospitalization is not the only outcome. If my position is that COVID reduces deaths and severe illness, what point is there in saying, well, look at all these people in the hospital! 

That doesn't show how many died... 

[User]

23 minutes ago, Deluge said:

I'm sorry dude, COVID is YOUR boogeyman, not mine. 

I liked Trump's original response before COVID cultists pulled their hair out and shit their pants. 

I washed my hands, kept good hygiene and wore a mask where it was required - that was good enough for me. 

Where did I ever try to make it a boogeyman?

You can't engage on a factual basis, you ignore my points, ignore my questions, and just respond with this trite BS. 

 

[User]

14 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I also went through a lot of the paradoxes with you before and discussed confounders like the dry tinder effect, and you rejected them all, so I'm not really interested in arguing this again with you.

Just the argument that we should expect to see MORE deaths and hospitalizations after mass vaccination is.....I'm not going to dignify it by arguing it further.  It's outlandish.

No, it is completely made up by you. 

Because you are a fundamentally dishonest person pushing fundamentally dishonest anti-vax crap. 

[robosmith]

7 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Demoncrat.

Wrong Answer! Correct answer is: MAGAt

Being a Canuck completely explains your IGNORANCE.

[Goddess]

1 minute ago, User said:

That a huge chunk of the people were unknown in vaccinated or unvaccinated status. 

Oh, I see.

Well, I know what it means when it's included in this type of data set (vaxxed, unvaxxed and unknown) and you've always got something to say on this topic, so I assumed you did too.

 

[robosmith]

7 hours ago, John Stone said:

President Donald Trump's appointment of RFK Jr., a decades-long vaccine skeptic, as Sec of HHS is definitely undermining public trust in proven safe and effective vaccines. 

On the other hand the appointment is further proof that the c-in-c has a penchant for surrounding himself with incompetent and unqualified individuals. 

Why is that? 

Arguably  it gives Trump confidence and the bragging right of being first-amongst-equals. 😄

 

Correct that Trump cannot stand being challenged on ANYTHING because he constantly imagines he KNOWS EVERYTHING. Except how to pronounce "acetaminophen" LMAO

[User]

1 minute ago, robosmith said:

Correct that Trump cannot stand being challenged on ANYTHING because he constantly imagines he KNOWS EVERYTHING. Except how to pronounce "acetaminophen" LMAO

Says the coward hiding from me. 

[Goddess]

19 minutes ago, User said:

No, it is completely made up by you. 

Because you are a fundamentally dishonest person pushing fundamentally dishonest anti-vax crap. 

OK. ☺️

[Deluge]

21 minutes ago, User said:

Where did I ever try to make it a boogeyman?

You can't engage on a factual basis, you ignore my points, ignore my questions, and just respond with this trite BS. 

I don't believe COVID vaccines help(ed). It doesn't matter what "facts" you throw out, I don't trust it. I don't trust pharma - I don't trust any of it, and I haven't since the outbreak. If I'm wrong, then it's on me. 

[robosmith]

6 hours ago, Goddess said:

The majority of people were in no danger of dying from covid.

And those who were in danger, were unknown until they got infected and spent time in the ICU.

You like to gamble on a deadly infection but are afraid to gamble on a vaccine which has been proven safe by HUGE TRIALS of more that 60,000 people.

[Goddess]

3 minutes ago, robosmith said:

And those who were in danger, were unknown until they got infected and spent time in the ICU.

No.

Those in danger were the very elderly, the very obese and those already dying of something else.

 

[robosmith]

5 hours ago, Goddess said:

I stopped engaging you when you stopped being honest about the data.

Look, I "get" that you're a big vaccine guy - get all of them, as often as you can, no need to take the individual into account.

So.....go do that.

You must be on what.....15th or 16th booster now?

 

Oooooo.  Mean. 😢

The parents of the children who died or were vaccine injured likely considered their children very significant.

And there's far more of them than you know.

 

But what you IGNORE is that for every severe side effect case from the vaccines, there were ~10x more from getting a COVID infection.

Quote

While both COVID-19 infection and vaccination are linked to myocarditis (heart muscle inflammation), the risk is significantly higher from the infection itself for the vast majority of the population. 

 

Core Comparison

• Risk Level: You are generally 7 to 15 times more likely to develop myocarditis from a COVID-19 infection than from a vaccine.
• Severity: Cases following vaccination are typically milder and resolve quickly with rest and over-the-counter anti-inflammatories like ibuprofen. Infection-related cases are more often severe, requiring intensive care and leading to a higher risk of heart failure or death.
• Incidence:
  • Infection: Approximately 15 to 40 additional cases per million people.
  • Vaccination: Approximately 1 to 10 cases per million doses in the general population.

 

[robosmith]

5 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Why is a Dem cultist talking about "covid jab efficacy claims from the CDC"? 😂

Here's absolutely everything that you need to know about "covid jab efficacy":

• after vaxing 85% of our population in Canada, covid deaths went up by 25%, with almost 90% of covid deaths coming from the vaxed, and hospitalizations tripled.
• Therefor, it is an absolute certainty that vax-promises of "You won't get sick" and "You won't give covid to granny" were 100% false. Which means that we FORCED a generation of youths to inject a harmful substance into their bodies which provided absolutely no benefits to them or their communities. 

You're not even an MD, so your medical statistical analysis is at best highly deficient because you don't understand the mechanisms.

[Goddess]

13 minutes ago, Deluge said:

I don't trust pharma - I don't trust any of it, and I haven't since the outbreak. If I'm wrong, then it's on me. 

This is what so much of it boils down to - from Big Pharma/covid to electing the Liberal party 4 times.

I'm with you.  Lie to me continually, scam & fraud multiple times and you lose my trust.

 

2 minutes ago, robosmith said:

You're not even an MD,

Just curious, are you an MD?

[robosmith]

5 hours ago, Goddess said:

Did it?

This is the data for Ontario, mid-2022.    When you add the Full Vaccinated and Partially Vaccinated together, it looks even worse for your claim.

Ontario data has been used in quite a few studies.

I don't blame you for repeating the claim, it was pumped through the media like a mantra, but the data doesn't support it.

 

Your cited data is cherry picked for very late in the pandemic when natural and vax immunity was far greater.

Early on COVID was a novel virus with very low natural immunity and the vaccines played a much larger role in fixing that.

Of course vaccines never do anything except give your immune system a jump start. If your immune system is shot, it wont do ANYTHING, which is why the elderly are the most vulnerable.

[robosmith]

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Don't you ever think about how parents felt when they watched their kids die from taking the covid jab, when they didn't need it at all? Or how they felt about seeing their kids get dangerous heart conditions, with permanent side-effects, from taking the jab that they didn't need? 

Why does that not occur to you? Are you heartless? I would feel like crap if I was watching my kid fight off death from a jab that they didn't need, which I made them take. 

 

FYI only 19 kids in Canada died of covid in all of 2020 and the first 11 months of 2021... How does that scream "MAKE THEM GET THE UNTESTED JAB"?

FYI no vaxt4rd has ever even attempted to answer that question, John. Not one, not ever. Why don't you go ahead and be the first? 

The number of children who died from the vaxes was MINISCULE. They don't approve them until that is true in the TRIALS.

[Goddess]

14 minutes ago, robosmith said:

when natural and vax immunity was far greater.

Are we back to believing in natural immunity again?

That's good.

For a few years there, all you "science" people said it didn't exist.

[robosmith]

3 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Are we back to believing in natural immunity again?

That's good.

For a few years there, all you "science" people said it didn't exist.

It mostly didn't exist in the beginning (2020). That's why they called it a NOVEL VIRUS and why it was so dangerous.

You don't know what that means?

[User]

46 minutes ago, Deluge said:

I don't believe COVID vaccines help(ed). It doesn't matter what "facts" you throw out, I don't trust it. I don't trust pharma - I don't trust any of it, and I haven't since the outbreak. If I'm wrong, then it's on me. 

LOL, then there is no basis here for any kind of logical, rational discussion if all you care about is personal anecdotes and reject all factual discussion. 

It is not only on you, as you are pushing this onto everyone else too, trying to convince them to also not get vaccinated. 

That is not only on you anymore. 

[User]

10 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Are we back to believing in natural immunity again?

That's good.

For a few years there, all you "science" people said it didn't exist.

No, what we were saying is that "natural" immunity comes from exposure and exposure comes with risk of death and severe illness... 

The point of a vaccine is to take that risk away. 

Its like training for a fight in martial arts. Instead of dropping you off in underground Thailand to get killed or beat to hell in a real underground kickboxing match on your first fight ever... instead you go to a gym in a controlled environment and train. 

 

[Goddess]

5 minutes ago, User said:

The point of a vaccine is to take that risk away.

Oh, I see.

That must be why people who didn't get the jabs all get covid, but people who got the covid jabs never get it.

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, User said:

Once again... you just keep saying this over and over again, but every time I demand proof, you run away, then you repeat the lie again. 

So you're telling me that you can look at those graphs, and not see how 86.5% of covid deaths in that time frame were among the multi-vaxxed?

Dude, I've told you A DOZEN F'ING TIMES how to extract that exact info from the charts I showed you.

Theres literally NO OTHER CONCLUSION that can be drawn from that info, aside from what I told you.

Honestly, just tell me what YOU THINK "the number of unvaxed deaths" is between those dates.

If you had to figure out the exact number of unvaxed that died between July 24th and Sept 25th or you were gonna lose a big toe, just using those charts, could you do it?

 

I will give you a hint. The number of covid deaths among the unvaxed was

10,501 between Dec 21 2020 and July 24 2022 and

10,800 between Dec 21 2020 and Sept 25 2022. 

You see how the start date is always Dec 14 2020, right? So there aren't 10,500 unvaxed deaths every month. You know that, right? 

So, can you find a way to figure out how many unvaccinated people died between July 24 and Sept 25? 

Can you do that? 

Last hint: it's 299. 10,501 plus 299 equals 10,800. 

There were 10,501 unvaxed deaths by July 24th, and that number went up to 10,800 by Sept 25th, and the difference is 299. 

Is it starting to make sense?

 

Once you figure out where I got the 299 from, we will go to the next step. 

[User]

12 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

So you're telling me that you can look at those graphs, and not see how 86.5% of covid deaths in that time frame were among the multi-vaxxed?

Are you OK?

The only graphs you shared here showed 50% (give or take) of deaths were from the unvaccinated. 

What graphs are you talking about?

 

31 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Oh, I see.

That must be why people who didn't get the jabs all get covid, but people who got the covid jabs never get it.

No, you clearly do not see. What does your comment have to do with anything?

[WestCanMan]

21 minutes ago, User said:

Are you OK?

The only graphs you shared here showed 50% (give or take) of deaths were from the unvaccinated. 

What graphs are you talking about?

😂

If I say to you "3 people died last week", and then I say to you "6 people died in the past two weeks", how many people died each week? Is there a way to figure it out?

One week it was 3, and the total was 6, so what was the other week? Was it 6? Was it 0? Is there no way of knowing?

FYI it was 3.

3 one week, 3 the other week, that makes 6 for two weeks.

 

 

Look at the graph below... Is that "The number of deaths in one month", Sept 2022, or is it the number of deaths in 22 months?

The correct answer is: The chart below shows the total number of covid deaths for 22 months. Dec 14 2020 to Sept 25th 2022:

1. It includes all the unvaxed deaths between Dec 14 2020 and Dec 31 2020. 17 days for that calendar month. 
2. all the unvaxed deaths for Jan 2021
3. all the unvaxed deaths for Feb 2021 
4. all the unvaxed deaths for Mar 2021 
5. all the unvaxed deaths Apr 2021 
6. all the unvaxed deaths May 2021 
7. all the unvaxed deaths Jun 2021 
8. all the unvaxed deaths Jul 2021 
9. all the unvaxed deaths Aug 2021 
10. all the unvaxed deaths Sep 2021 
11. all the unvaxed deaths Oct 2021 
12. all the unvaxed deaths Nov 2021 
13. all the unvaxed deaths Dec 2021 
14. all the unvaxed deaths Jan 2022 
15. all the unvaxed deaths Feb 2022 
16. all the unvaxed deaths Mar 2022 
17. all the unvaxed deaths Apr 2022 
18. all the unvaxed deaths May 2022 
19. all the unvaxed deaths Jun 2022 
20. all the unvaxed deaths before Jul 2022 
21. all the unvaxed deaths Aug 2022 
22. all the unvaxed deaths up to Sept 24 2022 

^^That^^ is what "Number of Confirmed Covid-19 Deaths in Canada from Dec 14, 2020 to September 25, 2022" means. It means "The deaths from all of those months".

It does not mean "deaths from one month". Do you understand that?

The chart below does not show the number of covid deaths for just one month. You see that now, right?

Edited April 24 by WestCanMan