building Chinese cars here in Canada....

[CdnFox]

14 hours ago, eyeball said:

And since you're the one who's made it go talk to your mirror about it.

Your lies not mine kiddo 

Quote

There is no dealing with Trump only caving and bending.

Nonsense. There's always a way to work a deal. You may not get everything you want but you can do better than what we're doing

Quote

While complaining bitterly and constantly about the shitty deal Carney got us.

No that's just you trying to make carney's failures my fault

Truth is it would have been better than what we have now, and it's actually what he campaigned on

 

Quote

That was on Trump's watch.

No it wasn't but hey, don't let the facts hold you back

Quote

On Biden's watch far more Americans died in Red counties that voted for Trump.

And?

 

Quote

Partisan divide in COVID-19 deaths widened as more vaccines became available

Vaccines were available because of trump

Quote

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Canada's death toll would have been far higher had we been under Conservative government.

Then why were they lower in conservative provinces? Go back was the worst and they were left-wing government

Quote

Just as I'm certain we'd be labouring under a shitty deal with Trump if Poilievre was in power. We'd probably be on our third deal given what a worthless welcher America has become.

We would be laboring under a better deal. And the only reason you are sure otherwise is because you live on hatred and confirmation bias.

But none of your feelings is based on facts. Not that they ever are with you

[herbie]

As of late 2025 and early 2026, the average cost of a new car in Canada is approximately $63,000 to $67,000 CAD.

There are many pure EVs available and many of those are under $50K to qualify for the $5000 rebate. The 'cost' excuse is becoming less and less valid.
The claim I made years ago that Oil companies and Big 3 greed for higher profit big vehicles would do more than EV incentives is rapidly bearing true.

I propose we make agreements that all N American, Japanese, Kprean and EU built hybrids, PHEV, BEV and fuel cell vehicles so that ehy are duty free.

[SpankyMcFarland]

It’s hard to see how the Chinese won’t dominate the global transition to electric vehicles. Does America expect us to follow it back to the twentieth century? 

[paxamericana]

3 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

It’s hard to see how the Chinese won’t dominate the global transition to electric vehicles. Does America expect us to follow it back to the twentieth century? 

The next race isn’t cars. And it’s definitely not electric cars for numerous reasons. It’s semiconductors, the US currently holds the edge on advanced semiconductor technology and manufacturing. The Chinese are acutely aware.

Edited April 26 by paxamericana

[SpankyMcFarland]

10 hours ago, paxamericana said:

The next race isn’t cars. And it’s definitely not electric cars for numerous reasons. It’s semiconductors, the US currently holds the edge on advanced semiconductor technology and manufacturing. The Chinese are acutely aware.

The race is about every technology and China is catching up fast. 

[herbie]

22 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

It’s hard to see how the Chinese won’t dominate the global transition to electric vehicles.

They already stated they don't need the US market. Plus it's hard to claim China is only 'catching up' on other technologies.It's not 1980 anymore where USA had vertically integrated chip makers like HP, Commodore and Texas instruments had their own supply chain. Farmed all that chip production out and they've had 40+ years to figure them all out.

Cdn battery plants have to figure out RFN how to grab the smaller battery production market as hybrids are already the biggest market and will be for the next decade or so.

[SpankyMcFarland]

On 4/26/2026 at 8:24 PM, herbie said:

They already stated they don't need the US market. Plus it's hard to claim China is only 'catching up' on other technologies.It's not 1980 anymore where USA had vertically integrated chip makers like HP, Commodore and Texas instruments had their own supply chain. Farmed all that chip production out and they've had 40+ years to figure them all out.

Cdn battery plants have to figure out RFN how to grab the smaller battery production market as hybrids are already the biggest market and will be for the next decade or so.

Anybody talking like that is not familiar with science or technology. China knows what counts and has a plan to catch up and surpass in every key area. 
Just look at the claims of progress on car batteries made every month now:

https://www.carwow.co.uk/news/10630/catl-electric-car-batteries-930-miles-range-four-minute-charging#gref

It’s the same in every area of medicine that I’m aware of. 

 

 

 

[herbie]

True, they should be prepared for the first NASA mission to Mars staying at a Chinese Hotel when they get there.

Cars are relatively simple, anybody can build them.

[SpankyMcFarland]

The direction of travel is fairly clear when one considers where China was fifty years ago. 

 

 

[CdnFox]

6 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

The direction of travel is fairly clear when one considers where China was fifty years ago. 

 

 

It's true but if someone who watched that very closely for other reasons I will say that while you're not wrong you're not entirely right either sort of   

There was a time when made in china meant cheap crap. Over time we suddenly saw that begin to change and more and more of the products were actually of good quality. And very frequently they represented great value. As one example although it may not resonate with everybody the 1911 handgun is produced by dozens of companies with slight variation across North America and china entered the market with their Norinco 1911. It's shocked everybody considering how good a gun it was and yet it was far below what many of the other 1911s were selling for. Just 10 years earlier Chinese guns were considered to be as dangerous to the shooter as what you were shooting at with the exception of the SKS

So watching that quality control and improvements tighten up over the years was really interesting and there's no doubt that china has come a million miles as far as their quality of manufacturing and their technology

 

But it's obvious that they're struggling to keep up and to pull ahead in a lot of areas.  They're just not the same powerhouse the us is, nor do they have the tech infrastructure needed. That's one of the reasons they want tiawan so bad. 

It's one thing to showcase a new tech, it's another to be able to actually build and deploy it affordably. And the chinese gov't is going broke trying to keep up with subsidies etc.  They are not in good shape financially. 

China has come miles but they face serious hurdles to actually put ahead in a real and meaningful way, and there are still serious underlying structural issues which hold them back. 

[herbie]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

But it's obvious that they're struggling to keep up and to pull ahead in a lot of areas. 

More correbtly the point point is we all saw them catch up, and we all know the goal is to surpass everyone else.
Hence the fear of China by business....

I cant find it to post, but there's a youtube explaining the Chinese are worrying about shaving a penny per unit off production costs. They plan to sell so much they'll work to shave a thousandth of a penny.

[CdnFox]

5 minutes ago, herbie said:

More correbtly the point point is we all saw them catch up, and we all know the goal is to surpass everyone else.
Hence the fear of China by business....

I cant find it to post, but there's a youtube explaining the Chinese are worrying about shaving a penny per unit off production costs. They plan to sell so much they'll work to shave a thousandth of a penny.

Sure, they want to corner markets and drive prices so low that they drive the competition out of business and then become indispensable. And they're hardly alone in that strategy, we've seen that before, but they really do lean into it.

But that very tactic really makes it hard for them to actually pull ahead. Let me see him out of investment but they can make into improving or coming up with the next generation product and the funding its development. So far they rely very heavily on industrial information theft and copying but that leaves you a step behind and companies are beginning to protect themselves against that better

 

[SpankyMcFarland]

5 hours ago, CdnFox said:

It's true but if someone who watched that very closely for other reasons I will say that while you're not wrong you're not entirely right either sort of   

There was a time when made in china meant cheap crap. Over time we suddenly saw that begin to change and more and more of the products were actually of good quality. And very frequently they represented great value. As one example although it may not resonate with everybody the 1911 handgun is produced by dozens of companies with slight variation across North America and china entered the market with their Norinco 1911. It's shocked everybody considering how good a gun it was and yet it was far below what many of the other 1911s were selling for. Just 10 years earlier Chinese guns were considered to be as dangerous to the shooter as what you were shooting at with the exception of the SKS

So watching that quality control and improvements tighten up over the years was really interesting and there's no doubt that china has come a million miles as far as their quality of manufacturing and their technology

 

But it's obvious that they're struggling to keep up and to pull ahead in a lot of areas.  They're just not the same powerhouse the us is, nor do they have the tech infrastructure needed. That's one of the reasons they want tiawan so bad. 

It's one thing to showcase a new tech, it's another to be able to actually build and deploy it affordably. And the chinese gov't is going broke trying to keep up with subsidies etc.  They are not in good shape financially. 

China has come miles but they face serious hurdles to actually put ahead in a real and meaningful way, and there are still serious underlying structural issues which hold them back. 

They are now a serious competitor in both EV and renewable technology, to mention two key industries for the future. Nobody can deny that. 

 

Edited April 29 by SpankyMcFarland

[cougar]

On 4/6/2026 at 8:34 PM, herbie said:

And I just saw some FaceButt post that they won't let you cross into the USA driving a Chinese car. What a load of shit, 

They actually think one of us will be that stupid as to venture down south?

This is called optimism.   😁

[SpankyMcFarland]

I’m seeing BYD car dealerships sprouting in Europe. Change is afoot, guys. Talent, hard work, and extraordinary scale have combined to create a formidable competitor. 

[cougar]

On 4/8/2026 at 5:48 AM, John Johnston said:

https://www.byd.com/en

Some nice looking whips. 

I bought my first car in Canada in 2003.  Happened to be an American brand because a colleague at work had the same brand and highly recommended it.  It was supposed to be cheaper parts and all.    I drove that car all over Canada  - from Ontario to BC , the Yukon (3 times) and Haida Gwaii (3 times).  Lot's of money in maintenance and it is rusting away, but I still have it and drive it, reminiscing of the past.  It has come to a point I have trouble not only finding parts but the part numbers themselves!

Now under the current US administration I can no longer justify my irrational attachment to the junk I drive.  (The only reason I like the car is probably its European design , copying a line of Opel vehicles).   It is making my decision to part with it and its roots and the country the parts come from much much easier.

In due course it will be replaced by a Japanese or a Chinese vehicle.

 

Edited April 29 by cougar

[CdnFox]

31 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

They are now a serious competitor in both EV and renewable technology, to mention two key industries for the future. Nobody can deny that. 

 

Well they're not really competitors in the technology per se, the technology that they offer is not substantially better than anything that could be made somewhere else. They are massive competitors in the production. They can produce those things cheaper than most other people they are there for major players in the marketplace.

Which is great, but you shouldn't confuse the two. Chinese solar panels generate exactly the same amount of energy per square foot that North American panels do and they used exactly the same technology. The Chinese just make them cheaper

Same was pretty much everything else that they do, there's very little that they do or build where you could say there is no equivalent elsewhere.

Now if your point was that they are positioning themselves as major players in that industry and are successful in that respect then absolutely I agree with you

[SpankyMcFarland]

12 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Well they're not really competitors in the technology per se, the technology that they offer is not substantially better than anything that could be made somewhere else. They are massive competitors in the production. They can produce those things cheaper than most other people they are there for major players in the marketplace.

Which is great, but you shouldn't confuse the two. Chinese solar panels generate exactly the same amount of energy per square foot that North American panels do and they used exactly the same technology. The Chinese just make them cheaper

Same was pretty much everything else that they do, there's very little that they do or build where you could say there is no equivalent elsewhere.

Now if your point was that they are positioning themselves as major players in that industry and are successful in that respect then absolutely I agree with you

Actually, China is innovating in these industries, not just lapping the rest of the world in production. Pay attention to the strides they are making in battery technology which mirrors what they are doing in nearly any area. Open a pathology or any medical journal and look at the names and universities on original research. Increasingly, the many, many Chinese authors are in Chinese universities. The era when China could be accused of just copying tech from elsewhere is long gone. 

[SpankyMcFarland]

The key geopolitical challenge of this century is China. I anticipate a world dominated by that country in the not too distant future. If it remains as authoritarian as it is, liberal democracy will have a very hard time surviving anywhere. 

[LinkSoul60]

1 hour ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Actually, China is innovating in these industries, not just lapping the rest of the world in production. Pay attention to the strides they are making in battery technology which mirrors what they are doing in nearly any area. Open a pathology or any medical journal and look at the names and universities on original research. Increasingly, the many, many Chinese authors are in Chinese universities. The era when China could be accused of just copying tech from elsewhere is long gone. 

Interesting that you noted the names shown on universities original research/publications.  An indicator that China is leading the world on the innovation front are the names on scientific publications throughout critical technological fields.  As you noted, there seems little doubt that within the not too distant future they will be the world's dominant economy.

https://itif.org/publications/2025/09/23/how-china-is-outperforming-the-united-states-in-critical-technologies/

This is concerning as it threatens to erode U.S. leadership across the innovation landscape. ITIF conducted a comprehensive analysis of China’s innovation capabilities last year, and that research concluded that China’s strategic, state-backed scientific advancement across advanced sectors—driven by bold industrial policy, generous government subsidies, and ecosystem integration—has resulted in a surge of global patents, indicating it has transitioned to become a global innovation leader. China is demonstrating dominance in robotics, leading in battery supply, innovating public health by doubling clinical biotech trials, outpacing in quantum communication with a 1,200-mile QKD corridor, experiencing near-peer achievement in AI output, and narrowing gaps in semiconductors and chemicals.

[WestCanMan]

His deal accomplished a lot of things:

• stroked the egos of the dummies who fell for "elbows up"
• gave the CBC something to lie about
• stole some communist votes away from the NDP

That's enough for the Libs to call it a 'win'. Give them their victory lap.

Bottom line though:

• Now we are looking at Americans with far more resolve than ever before in this trade war. 

[SpankyMcFarland]

2 hours ago, LinkSoul60 said:

Interesting that you noted the names shown on universities original research/publications.  An indicator that China is leading the world on the innovation front are the names on scientific publications throughout critical technological fields.  As you noted, there seems little doubt that within the not too distant future they will be the world's dominant economy.

https://itif.org/publications/2025/09/23/how-china-is-outperforming-the-united-states-in-critical-technologies/

This is concerning as it threatens to erode U.S. leadership across the innovation landscape. ITIF conducted a comprehensive analysis of China’s innovation capabilities last year, and that research concluded that China’s strategic, state-backed scientific advancement across advanced sectors—driven by bold industrial policy, generous government subsidies, and ecosystem integration—has resulted in a surge of global patents, indicating it has transitioned to become a global innovation leader. China is demonstrating dominance in robotics, leading in battery supply, innovating public health by doubling clinical biotech trials, outpacing in quantum communication with a 1,200-mile QKD corridor, experiencing near-peer achievement in AI output, and narrowing gaps in semiconductors and chemicals.

To argue otherwise defies basic common sense. Look at the news in any area of science or technology and you’ll find Chinese people somewhere. But it’s even simpler than that. I think of the achievements of the Chinese people I have met and then I scale that sample up to 1.4 billion, with a ‘b’, mate, with a ‘b’. The consequences are not difficult to figure out. Once China got even a roughly level playing field against the West it was always going to perform spectacularly. For good or ill that’s the world we live in and we avoid dealing with it at our peril. 

Edited April 30 by SpankyMcFarland

[LinkSoul60]

1 minute ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

To argue otherwise defies basic common sense. Look at the news in any area of science or technology and you’ll find Chinese people somewhere. But it’s even simpler than that. I think of the Chinese people I have met and then I scale that up to 1.4 billion with a ‘b’. The consequences are hard to avoid. 

Absolutely....  I understand patriotism and biases but at the end of the day, common sense still rules.  When you look at China with 1.4 Billion people and their long time investments in R&D of critical technologies it's not too difficult to see who is leading this new world age.

[Goddess]

56 minutes ago, LinkSoul60 said:

and their long time investments in R&D of critical technologies

LOL

They've stolen most of the technologies from other nations, including Canada.  Remember Nortel?

 

White House accuses China of industrial-scale theft of AI technology | Reuters

The trade-offs of innovating in China in times of global technology rivalry | Merics

China's technology theft a massive threat, FBI head warns | 60 Minutes - CBS News

China steals too much US defense tech, says DCSA • The Register

Five Eyes intelligence chiefs warn on China's 'theft' of intellectual property | Reuters

Industrial espionage: How China sneaks out America's technology secrets

China theft of technology is biggest law enforcement threat to US, FBI says | China | The Guardian

How does China steal U.S. intellectual property? - Futurity

 

They don't just steal industrial, defense and AI technologies.  They also stole viruses from Canada and shipped them to Wuhan.  

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Actually, China is innovating in these industries, not just lapping the rest of the world in production. Pay attention to the strides they are making in battery technology which mirrors what they are doing in nearly any area. Open a pathology or any medical journal and look at the names and universities on original research. Increasingly, the many, many Chinese authors are in Chinese universities. The era when China could be accused of just copying tech from elsewhere is long gone. 

They're not really innovating in these industries. They're not making leaps or bounds in battery technology, battery technology is advancing everywhere. However in the North American markets for example the automaker simply aren't interested in pursuing it. But it's not that they couldn't or that the technology doesn't exist.

I'm sure china is doing lots of medical research but it does not eclipse western research and I would point out that the mnra covid vaccine they came up with (which we PAID for but never got) was far less effective than the moderna and pfizer products. 

They're not even in the same league when it comes to chip technology and dozens and dozens and dozens of other Technologies. They're navy is twice the size of Americas but because of the technology gap every expert says the same thing, america would win hands down.

The problem is the Chinese structure and it really holds them back from really coming ahead and leaps and bounds. But Technologies wise they are still lagging most other countries in the vast majority of their technology and where they're not it's because others aren't putting a focus there.

That may change, is quite possible that they will emerge as true world leaders but that day is definitely not here yet