building Chinese cars here in Canada....

[Zeitgeist]

24 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

Oh come come, you were given a choice. 51st or did you forget? 

We should call the US bluff and see how they would implement this if Canadians supported it.  That’s how the US should’ve marketed it to Canadians.  We only see it as turning over self-determination to dysfunctional Washington in a self-centred US, with no demonstrated understanding of the complexity of Canada and its jurisdictions, which would all have to remain jurisdictions (10 provinces/states and 3 territories) with different national policies pertaining to all of Canada in language, culture, and public policies that differ from the US across Canada, handled federally in Ottawa. There’s no democratic way of ignoring those, and imposing control against the wishes of the people undermines the US raison d’être.

As stated many times, the best case scenario for US trade policy with Canada is an economic union between the two countries that allows free movement of goods, residents and workers, with an understanding that residents follow the local laws and cannot access certain services, perhaps until minimum length of residency and/or work requirements are met.

Over time the duplication between policies and departments can be reduced between the two countries, such that the economy is a de facto single entity providing new opportunities for the citizens of both countries.

As of now Canadians are running away from the US, so I don’t see how greater integration can be sold today.  The current isolationist US also doesn’t seem interested in sharing or compromise.  I think Canada should simply carry on with its economic plan until the US trade extortionists are run out of town at mid-terms.  In any event, the US is fighting battles on too many fronts right now, especially overseas. Every time a clown like Lutnik shoots off his mouth insulting Canada, Canadians put a gone fishing sign on their door.  Damn right.  

Edited April 19 by Zeitgeist

[herbie]

Trumpian idea of a 'deal': offer a country bigger than yourself to beome 1/51st of you. What a deal, eh?

A state that can't even set it's own emission standards, safety or mileage targets. Or what cars consumers can buy,

... and that's just the auto sector. 

[paxamericana]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

run out of town at mid-terms

This is a fallacy, a Canadian myth. Biden did not remove Trump’s tariff. The midterms won’t help you in trade negotiations. Both side of the American isle are “trade extortionists” as you say.

Edited April 19 by paxamericana

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, paxamericana said:

This is a fallacy, a Canadian myth. Biden did not remove Trump’s tariff. The midterms won’t help you in trade negotiations. Both side of the American isle are “trade extortionists” as you say.

Probably, which just makes the case for Canada sticking to its plan.  I reckon that if current trajectories remain, Canada will have some new mining operations, transportation infrastructure, markets, and military gear within 10-15 years that will essentially replace losses in exports to the US and give our economy greater resilience, productivity, and independence.

[paxamericana]

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

within 10-15 years

You’ll be third world Americans.

[Army Guy]

On 4/18/2026 at 12:40 AM, LinkSoul60 said:

Partially correct... Harper spent to support the Afghanistan mission but after that cut to it to 1%, which is the lowest spending by a PM. 

 

 

The Harper Plan for Unilateral Canadian Disarmament

By Michael Byers, National Post.  July 15,2014

Despite his tough talk about supporting the troops, Stephen Harper has reduced defence spending to just 1% of GDP — the lowest level in Canadian history.   For decades, Canada’s level of defence spending was comparable to that of Denmark, Germany, the Netherlands and Norway (all currently at 1.4%). After the Cold War ended, Jean Chrétien and Paul Martin reduced defence spending to 1.2% of GDP — leading to what General Rick Hillier called a “decade of darkness.” The Afghanistan mission necessitated an increase, with spending returning to 1.4% by 2009.  But then Harper cut deep: At 1% of GDP, Canada’s new defence spending peers are Belgium, Latvia and Slovakia.

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/natosource/the-harper-plan-for-unilateral-canadian-disarmament/

 

Back to Chinese EV's...  Obviously with 25% tariffs the US wants to build the cars there. The supply chain is highly integrated so we're still going to build cars, just less. Rather than saying uncle and accepting that, we're doing the right thing in trying to create more consumer demand and corporate investment. Trump's not a bright guy but the guy who is negotiating (Greer) isn't a trade dummy. I'm sure the cusma agreement will change a bit and be good for everyone and I'd bet today's high sectoral tariffs be adjusted much lower, whenever that may be so this trade thing is behind us and them. Trump needs it behind him too with the majority of American's against tariffs policies, inflation, really high gas prices, and house and senate seats that could/will be lost.  Apparently this is the golden age.

 

 

Not even close....

Under harper spending did not decrease...it increased....from 16 bil to 19 bil....Higher than his predecessor, So he did increase military spending, Your cherry picking stats because it suits you...

Chretien had military budget at 1.9 % GDP and dropped it to 1.1...That was the largest cut to the military budget in Canadian history, he slashed the budget manpower levels, everything, hence why it isa called the decade of darkness...Liberal government have done more harm to our military than any other government....And when they have spent money it was because they were forced....Trudeau snr, Trudeau jr, Carney all forced to spend money as each time our military was on the verge of irrelevance, and pressure from NATO.... 

You can paint Harper as the worst and yet, a good portion of military purchases of our modern military equipment was purchase by him...What has the liberals purchased again...

 

[Nefarious Banana]

Trump won't be around forever.  Look at him!  Sick man.  Bloated, overweight with high blood pressure, and a waning Messiah Complex.  Flush-a-bye's by the pallet load?

The world will keep on turning without Donald Trump . . . you Yanks have been had, enjoy the ride.

[Zeitgeist]

7 hours ago, paxamericana said:

You’ll be third world Americans.

Well how do you measure quality of life?  Canada still has better infant mortality rates and longer life expectancy than the US.  We have fewer homicides and a less polarized society.  Canadians generally prefer and like their way. The country goes through rough periods and has its problems.  Which had the better overall quality of life?   Depends what you’re looking for at.  Our dollar is weaker and our incomes have lagged, but 15 years ago we had higher incomes and currency. We declined under Trudeau.  Hopefully now we can repair the damage and make some productive moves.  

Edited April 20 by Zeitgeist

[paxamericana]

7 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Well how do you measure quality of life?  Canada still has better infant mortality rates and longer life expectancy than the US.  We have fewer homicides and a less polarized society.  

Grasping at straws. We’re not that different.

 

7 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Canadians generally prefer and like their way.

Yes you are a stubborn lot.

7 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Which had the better overall quality of life?  

You all really need to stop day dreaming the Harper era. It’s ironic that Canadian metric for success is how much better off they are than Americans. Also comical.

7 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

We declined under Trudeau.  Hopefully now we can repair the damage and make some productive moves.  

No you aged past the period of relevance, your industries are not competitive and your labor force is shrinking with a ballooning pension burden that erodes capital for investment. Salvation has to come from the outside. The country that can afford to do so is America.

Edited April 20 by paxamericana

[paxamericana]

12 hours ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Trump won't be around forever. 

He will live rent free in your head until your last day.

Edited April 20 by paxamericana

[John Stone]

When Congress passed the Inflation Reduction Act in 2022 it contained major incentives for electric vehicle production and adoption – the Act resulted in accelerated production within the US electric vehicle industry.

In 2025, Trump’s so-called, One Big Beautiful Bill eliminated most of the incentives and consequently US investment collapsed.

'We don't need cars made in Canada, CUSMA is irrelevant' / Trump

This doddering old 80 y/o  fool is not going to live long enough to see the consequences of his foolish rhetoric, actions and policies. ......................... on basically everything that is important going forward.

[paxamericana]

13 minutes ago, John Stone said:

In 2025, Trump’s so-called, One Big Beautiful Bill eliminated most of the incentives and consequently US investment collapsed.

The truth is buried deep but lets shed some light. The current electrical grid can’t support wide scale EV adoption on top of the infrastructure build out required of AI data centers. Removing the EV incentives was meant to slow down investment in one sector to prioritize the other. If you look at the incentives on lithium batteries they have not went away.

Edited April 20 by paxamericana

[John Stone]

8 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

The truth is buried deep but lets shed some light. The current electrical grid can’t support wide scale EV adoption on top of the infrastructure build out required of AI data centers. Removing the EV incentives was meant to slow down investment in one sector to prioritize the other. If you look at the incentives on lithium batteries they have not went away.

Trump’s EO suspended unspent government funds for the construction of  EV  charging stations - improvement to infrastructure to allow for the growth of E.V. 

                                                                                            

Edited April 20 by John Stone

[paxamericana]

16 minutes ago, John Stone said:

Trump’s EO suspended unspent government funds for the construction of  EV  charging stations - improvement to infrastructure to allow for the growth of E.V. 

                                                                                            

EV infrastructure competes for the same raw material resources required of AI data centers. To give some perspective, Ontario peak energy consumption is 20-25 Gigawatt during the hot and cold months. One large AI datacenter uses 2 Gigawatt.

Some projection for EV replacement would increase energy consumption to 60Gigawatt. Distributed across a large geographic continent, increasing infrastructure buildout cost (electric cables etc) 

That’s the scale you need to understand. There is no way the current grid can support that level of energy demand. Choosing between another transportation option that does the same job or building out Skynet, America is choosing Skynet first. 
 

Stable genius.

 

Edited April 20 by paxamericana

[John Stone]

2 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

EV infrastructure competes for the same raw material resources required if AI data centers. To give some perspective, Ontario peak energy consumption is 20-25 Gigawatt during the hot and cold months. One large AI datacenter uses 2 Gigawatt. That’s the scale you need to understand. There is no way the current grid can support that level of energy demand. This is before you tack on the EV vehicle energy demand.

 

10 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

EV infrastructure competes for the same raw material resources required if AI data centers. To give some perspective, Ontario peak energy consumption is 20-25 Gigawatt during the hot and cold months. One large AI datacenter uses 2 Gigawatt. That’s the scale you need to understand. There is no way the current grid can support that level of energy demand. This is before you tack on the EV vehicle energy demand.

 

Re: US - The competition between EV and AI for energy is complex and a compelling  argument , most especially when a straw man is being created to dissuade EV ………..no question AI will be increasingly integrated into any EV infrastructure management, that said, experts agree that (EV) does not directly compete with  AI in terms of energy consumption.

The truth is that science / technology does not stop due to self-serving political arguments.

 

[John Stone]

The US government was spending billions to create electric vehicle charging stations, aiming to support a majority of EV in infrastructure.  No question the availability of public charging stations can influence EV sales. 

[paxamericana]

28 minutes ago, John Stone said:

 

 

Re: US - The competition between EV and AI for energy is complex and a compelling  argument , most especially when a straw man is being created to dissuade EV ………..no question AI will be increasingly integrated into any EV infrastructure management, that said, experts agree that (EV) does not directly compete with  AI in terms of energy consumption.

The truth is that science / technology does not stop due to self-serving political arguments.

 

Can you form a coherent narrative instead of this nonsense? 

Energy is energy, replace EV with toaster oven if you want. It doesn’t really matter what the load is. They all compete for the available energy being generated. More toaster oven means more energy needed… this is basic math man. Also what’s EV benefits other than another set of wheels? Seriously we have a working system to resolve the getting from A to B problem already with no new infrastructure needed.

Edited April 20 by paxamericana

[John Stone]

8 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

Can you form a coherent narrative instead of this nonsense? 

Energy is energy, replace EV with toaster oven if you want. It doesn’t really matter what the load is. They all compete for the available energy being generated. More toaster oven means more energy needed… this is basic math man. Also what’s EV benefits other than another set of wheels? Seriously we have a working system to resolve the getting from A to B problem already.

............ the problem is that ur arguing Kanada's limitations vs. US, federally funded,  existing potential. 

However, in the US innovative plans were made and funded by the Federal government to address present infrastructure limitations now and  in the future, re: CHARGING STATION AVAILABILITY.

 The  power grid itself  can handle an increasing number of EVs, with the CURRENT grid capable of supporting 80 million EV during overnight hours.  

Trump’s EO suspended unspent government funds for the construction of  EV  charging stations. 

 

[John Stone]

31 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

Can you form a coherent narrative instead of this nonsense? 

Energy is energy, replace EV with toaster oven if you want. It doesn’t really matter what the load is. They all compete for the available energy being generated. More toaster oven means more energy needed… this is basic math man. Also what’s EV benefits other than another set of wheels? Seriously we have a working system to resolve the getting from A to B problem already with no new infrastructure needed.

............ as an aside,  Trump’s opposition to EVS aligns with his broader support for fossil fuels.

He has promised to increase oil and  gas production, lift restrictions on drilling and promote gasoline vehicles.

Trump cast the EV push as incompatible with energy independence,(OMG) arguing that gas-powered cars and cheap fuel are essential to American prosperity.

 

[Nefarious Banana]

2 hours ago, paxamericana said:

He will live rent free in your head until your last day.

Aaaaah, you're wrong yet again . . . . he's your boy, not mine.  

[Moonbox]

On 4/15/2026 at 4:02 PM, Army Guy said:

You've literal describe yourself...Take a look at any of your posts, very rarely do you stay on topic, and they ALWAYS end up, with you adding nothing of value...you used to be one of the more sensible posters on here, now you just a Douch bag with an axe to grind....with nothing of value to contribute....you and red arrow boy should take a break...It seems you can't handle the added stress of discussion...

Go review your content in this thread and try to explain what you figure makes you the more reasonable poster.  Go count how many chirps you tossed out before you started crying about other people chirping, okay?  Then go look up what the word "oblivious" means. 

Whining about other people chirping you when you can't help yourself from doing the same is cringeworthy.  How is it that you can't realize that?  

[paxamericana]

2 hours ago, John Stone said:

The  power grid itself  can handle an increasing number of EVs, with the CURRENT grid capable of supporting 80 million EV during overnight hours.  

to solve what problem that hasn't already been solved!? address that point first. Why do we need electric vehicles?

a typical tesla requires 8kw of slow charging over night for like 10 hours or more to top off. That means bare minimum you would need 640 Gigawatt of energy production overnight. The US entire energy production currently tops out at 1200 Gigawatt with half coming from fossil fuel. What, we're expecting to Sun to shine at night and the wind to blow consistently every night? TDS is not good for critical thinking.

 

Edited April 20 by paxamericana

[John Stone]

4 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

to solve what problem that hasn't already been solved!? address that point first. Why do we need electric vehicles?

a typical tesla requires 8kw of slow charging over night for like 10 hours or more to top off. That means bare minimum you would need 640 Gigawatt of energy production overnight. The US entire energy production currently tops out at 1200 Gigawatt with half coming from fossil fuel. 

 

............. fossil fuel is an anachronism. 

The pitfall is moving too fast towards a developing technology.............. I get that, the push back, but lets begin to move towards a developing technology and not crush it in the embryonic stage. 

I don't want to scare u and  I don't want to spend too much time repeating boring figures ......... but at ur convenience peruse what China IS doing to meet the future. Examine how they're weaning themselves off an anachronism. China has a plan,  a strategy. They're moving forward at light speed, globally ....soon it will be too late to  catch up in the science/tech/ development area. The slants are even providing funding to developing countries to enable them to progress EV / solar, etc - self serving of course with 80 percent of EV produced by China - but hugely strategic. 

But hey, who wants to be China? 

[herbie]

They like to remind us how the power grid can't handle the load if every car magically changed into a BEV with a dead battey  overnight. Alonmg with the idea that the grid isn't and can't be expanded like it is every damn day.
They don't know the dam can put out the same amount of power while they're snoring in bed or thaat the car isw just sitting idle while they have dinner, watch TV and sleep for 12 hours.
They also think everyone drives 1000 miles to get tp wprk or the grocery store, everyone is too poor to afford a second car, they 'beed' an Expidition and the wife 'needs' a Yukon and gas stations will all be shut down in 2035.

Even three gas price shocks in a lifetime won't convince the butt stubborn.

 

[paxamericana]

17 minutes ago, John Stone said:

fossil fuel is an anachronism

What is that supposed to even mean???? You want a different way of walking!!!?? Reinvent the wheel?

 

16 minutes ago, herbie said:

expanded like it is every damn day.

To do what? Another car that does the exact same thing your Yukon Denali already does? 
 

How about we use it to power up higher productivity improvements like AI.