Potential for Poilievre to lose even more - another floor crosser crosses the floor

[Nefarious Banana]

10 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

 Poilievre has been getting feedback from across the political spectrum about his abrasive style and confrontational tactics that are poorly suited to the grave national crisis we face. He seems determined to ignore such counsel and may yet face the consequences of such obstinacy. 

It seems apparent that Pierre Poilievre will never be PM.  As you state above, his personal 'likeable-ness' is lacking.  Once Trump is out of office, all that may change, but as it stands now, his federal political career is quickly winding down.

Who's in the wings to replace him?

[CdnFox]

19 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

There are acquaintances who specialize in telling us when we’ve lost weight and others who prefer to tell us when we’ve put it on. Both have their value. Poilievre has been getting feedback from across the political spectrum about his abrasive style and confrontational tactics that are poorly suited to the grave national crisis we face. He seems determined to ignore such counsel and may yet face the consequences of such obstinacy. 

Not really across the political spectrum. Mostly from people like you.

And at the same time he got within 1% of the same vote total that carney did. And carney had to steal the entire NDP vote to pull that off

I've never heard you address that. I've heard you dance around it and ignore it and avoid it but I've never actually heard you or any of the liberals explain how someone so horribly unsuited can do that well.

3 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

With the right leader the NDP might have its major disaster in the rear view mirror. Carney has vacated some of the political space occupied on the left by JT and has created a vacuum to fill. There’s definitely an opportunity there, 

Without a doubt. If they get away from the whole political activism social justice warrior woke nonsense crap and get back to jack Layton "everyman" Meat and potatoes kitchen table stuff they can rebuild fairly quickly. Mark carney is trying to appeal to both the left and the right at the same time and frequently that falls apart before too long and the NDP will have strong opportunities

[Nefarious Banana]

2 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

He got within 1% of the same vote total that Carney did, and Carney had to steal the entire NDP vote to pull that off.

Hat's off for Pierre Poilievre doing that.  That was then . . . this is now.

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

The problem isn’t Poilievre, it’s that Canadians have been taught to fear conservatives, even moderate ones like Poilievre.

No it's definitely the loons that support Poilievre that gives ordinary people pause to consider. One look at the things too many clowns down south of us have been put in charge of indicates the direction Poilievre might be tempted to go to placate the base.

The closer to a two party system we go the more important the loons become. And yes that's true in either direction.

Ironically the bigger and more uniformly moderate the center grows and becomes the more important the loons become when tilting the balance that last little nudge to get you over the finish line at election time.

We're boxed in and fùcked no matter which way we turn.

Edited December 14, 2025 by eyeball

[Zeitgeist]

4 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

By who? So, who are the teachers?

Liberals?

NDP?

Bloq?

Actually, seem like the conservatives can't get elected till they get a leader Canadians can believe in.

Poilievre is moderate.  If he seems otherwise it’s only because Canadian media and education is decisively left wing.  So are the courts.  In Canada conservatives can no longer get elected.  It’s only when the Conservatives ape the Liberals now that they get any play.  Canada is too radical left lunatic. Everyone is trying to prove how anti-oppressive they are. 

Edited December 14, 2025 by Zeitgeist

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Hat's off for Pierre Poilievre doing that.  That was then . . . this is now.

Still polling the same.  Who else is going to do as well?

[CdnFox]

55 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No it's definitely the loons that support Poilievre that gives ordinary people pause to consider. One look at the things too many clowns down south of us have been put in charge of indicates the direction Poilievre might be tempted to go to placate the base.

The closer to a two party system we go the more important the loons become. And yes that's true in either direction.

Ironically the bigger and more uniformly moderate the center grows and becomes the more important the loons become when tilting the balance that last little nudge to get you over the finish line at election time.

We're boxed in and fùcked no matter which way we turn.

You said the same thing when it was trudeau in power and look what he did to canada. 

Carney will leave canada burning and destitute and you'll still be blaming harper 

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

The way you put that puts the blame on Canadian voters rather than the Conservative Party. Why not start by assuming the voter is right and tailoring the message to appeal to as many of them as possible on the right and centre of the spectrum? 

The problem is partly Poilievre. He flirted with some non-moderate ideas like crypto and support for the Convoy and his style has a MAGA flavour. I think he would have serious difficulty uniting Canadians. The Tories have chosen to move to the right and make people like PP the moderates in the party now rather than the likes of Charest. Polievre is considerably to the right of most Canadians. 
 

 

I’m grateful that he supported the Convoy, which was the only force preventing Trudeau from stripping away rights and freedoms and maintaining draconian restrictions and mandates.  Half the country understood that, but the problem is that most of those sensible Canadians are not in the Liberal bastions, which dominate central and eastern Canada, as well as BC.  I think Ontario is in about the middle, but the east coast and BC are forever Liberal. 

[SpankyMcFarland]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Not really across the political spectrum. Mostly from people like you.

I don’t believe that. Obviously, Tory voices have to be more discreet but it’s clear to any reasonable person that he’s doing it wrong. From a position where a landslide was his, how many verdicts does he have to get before he acknowledges this? 

Edited December 14, 2025 by SpankyMcFarland

[SpankyMcFarland]

11 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I’m grateful that he supported the Convoy, which was the only force preventing Trudeau from stripping away rights and freedoms and maintaining draconian restrictions and mandates.  Half the country understood that, but the problem is that most of those sensible Canadians are not in the Liberal bastions, which dominate central and eastern Canada, as well as BC.  
 

That’s PPC thinking that has leaked into the Tories. Do you really believe the Convoy was popular in downtown Ottawa?

 

Quote

I think Ontario is in about the middle, but the east coast and BC are forever Liberal. 

We’re talking Canada’s east coast here? The CPCs have 7/17 seats in NB and NL. Look outside the big centres and you’ll see a lot of blue:

 

Edited December 14, 2025 by SpankyMcFarland

[Zeitgeist]

21 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I don’t believe that. Obviously, Tory voices have to be more discreet but it’s clear to any reasonable person that he’s doing it wrong. From a position when a landslide was his, how many verdicts does he have to get before he acknowledges this? 

Trump got Carney elected and it appears that it was by design to keep Canada weak. Carney is a darling of Wall Street financiers and the Davos globalist consensus.  I think he’s a smart enough guy who knows how to drum up public support, but I don’t think he sees the truth in what Trump and Vance noted about many countries in the West, including Canada under Trudeau, that these countries’ governments are selling out their own cultures and peoples in the name of some highly ideological views about the “settler colonial”, “anti-environment”. “patriarchal” West.  It’s a bogus self-defeating narrative that Carney pushed along with Trudeau.

Edited December 14, 2025 by Zeitgeist

[CdnFox]

13 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I don’t believe that.

You choose not to believe that because it supports your narrative. But yourself delusion isn't the same as reality

14 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Obviously, Tory voices have to be more discreet but it’s clear to any reasonable person that he’s doing it wrong.

Like I said, got 41.5% of the vote last election. Explain to me how that's an example of him doing it wrong.

And the fact that a few mPS are able to be bought and paid for doesn't change anything. If the roles were reversed liberals will be leaving Carney

15 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

From a position where a landslide was his, how many verdicts does he have to get before he acknowledges this? 

So you're being deliberately dishonest here and we both know it. Had he fought the election against Trudeau you and I both know we'd be talking about a conservative majority right now

The liberals inappropriately use their position to parliament and held a fake leadership race to install Carney and then used the fact that he was an unelected prime minister to showboat him around and ran away from their track record.

Not illegal, but a complete dirty trick. Sure I'll grant you that the liberals know how to play a dirty game and they play it well.

But again, they would have pulled that crap regardless of who the leader was.

 

How are you going to answer the question or are you going to dishonestly avoid it again?

[Zeitgeist]

3 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

That’s PPC thinking that has leaked into the Tories. Do you really believe the Convoy was popular in downtown Ottawa?

 

 

The fact that the Convoy wasn’t popular in downtown Ottawa simply makes the point about how out of touch Ottawa is with Canadians.  It’s only the regular working people like the truckers and farmers who pushed back against Trudeau and the elites in Ottawa who had no problem playing loose with our Charter rights and imposing quasi-martial law.  The Convoy was largely the force for good, not the other way around.  Unfortunately, the Liberal funded media backed the Liberal narratives and painted the Convoy as racists, which is how it’s done in Canada.  That’s what I mean when I say that Canadians are taught to fear conservatives and Conservatives.  The result is that Canada’s left wing excesses can’t be corrected.  

[ExFlyer]

11 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Poilievre is moderate.  If he seems otherwise it’s only because Canadian media and education is decisively left wing.  So are the courts.  In Canada conservatives can no longer get elected.  It’s only when the Conservatives ape the Liberals now that they get any play.  Canada is too radical left lunatic. Everyone is trying to prove how anti-oppressive they are. 

Well, maybe conservatives cannot get elected because their leader comes across as an extremely negative person?

The courts in Canada only apply the laws of Canada that have been enacted by parliament regardless of who is in power.

Every party has its flaws...the conservatives as much as the liberals as much as the NDP. The problem overall is political philosophy outweighs what is good for the country and the desire to work to make Canada better is outweighed by that philosophy.

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

Well, maybe conservatives cannot get elected because their leader comes across as an extremely negative person?

The courts in Canada only apply the laws of Canada that have been enacted by parliament regardless of who is in power.

Every party has its flaws...the conservatives as much as the liberals as much as the NDP. The problem overall is political philosophy outweighs what is good for the country and the desire to work to make Canada better is outweighed by that philosophy.

I don’t think it’s got anything to do with Poilievre, who is basically a smart, experienced conservative who’s telling Canadians how we got into this mess and how to get out of it.  Anyone who does this might get the overall majority of votes but more of these votes will be concentrated in Alberta, Saskatchewan, and rural Ontario.  The East Coast and Quebec support the Liberal grift that threw money at these places to buy votes.  BC is full of irresponsible left-wing flakes and rich Asian retirees, but the flake majority get their way and keep voting left, which is why there are so many drug-related deaths and private property is being turned over to Indigenous.

Unfortunately the Liberal funded media, Trudeau court appointments, and woke education curriculum pretty much ensure that Canada can’t develop its resources, have a sane tax system, or ensure free speech.

A truly conservative government that could fix these problems can’t get elected.   

Edited December 14, 2025 by Zeitgeist

[ExFlyer]

44 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I don’t think it’s got anything to do with Poilievre, who is basically a smart, experienced conservative who’s telling Canadians how we got into this mess and how to get out of it.  Anyone who does this might get the overall majority of votes but more of these votes will be concentrated in Alberta, Saskatchewan, and rural Ontario.  The East Coast and Quebec support the Liberal grift that threw money at these places to buy votes.  BC is full of irresponsible left-wing flakes and rich Asian retirees, but the flake majority get their way and keep voting left, which is why there are so many drug-related deaths and private property is being turned over to Indigenous.

Unfortunately the Liberal funded media, Trudeau court appointments, and woke education curriculum pretty much ensure that Canada can’t develop its resources, have a sane tax system, or ensure free speech.

A truly conservative government that could fix these problems can’t get elected.   

I disagree.

Harper beat Chretien (actually Paul Martin who was a fill in). Mulroney beat Trudeau.

So Conservatives really do have Canadians with them. The party is closely behind the Liberals...almost a virtual tie but Polievere has less than half or Carney support selected by Canadians to be PM.

The liberals bailed the media out of bankruptcy but Harper shunned them and basically shut them out. "Stephen Harper's government generally had a poor, adversarial relationship with the Canadian media, characterized by restricted access, control over messaging, and viewing the press as an adversary rather than a partner, with critics calling it a "dark age" for Canadian journalism and press freedom"

. His government implemented stricter controls, limiting journalist questions at press conferences, controlling information flow, and even planning government-run media centres, which significantly eroded trust and transparency with news outlets"

The Conservatives have not been able to find a leader since Harper. 4 elections, 3 leaders. All have failed to garner the support needed to become government.

I personally stopped supporting conservatives because of this. I did not see leadership in Scheer or O'Toole and certainly not in Polievere. In my opinion, Polievre is the worst of them. He just does not come across as wanting to make Canada better. He is always mad and critical and complaining as opposed to trying to work with government to make it better. He is just not seen as a positive person...by Canadians as the polls show.

So, I agree with you, a truly conservative government could fix the problems but...as with most Canadians, I do not see that happening with the leadership the conservatives have now. I have said in the past and will say again, when the conservatives kinda shoved out Rona Ambrose, they lost their chance. I truly believe she would have ben PM.

[ExFlyer]

13 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

The fact that the Convoy wasn’t popular in downtown Ottawa simply makes the point about how out of touch Ottawa is with Canadians.  It’s only the regular working people like the truckers and farmers who pushed back against Trudeau and the elites in Ottawa who had no problem playing loose with our Charter rights and imposing quasi-martial law.  The Convoy was largely the force for good, not the other way around.  Unfortunately, the Liberal funded media backed the Liberal narratives and painted the Convoy as racists, which is how it’s done in Canada.  That’s what I mean when I say that Canadians are taught to fear conservatives and Conservatives.  The result is that Canada’s left wing excesses can’t be corrected.  

Do not mix up the city and people of Ottawa with the government.

The city and people are the same as any other city and people in the country. The people of Ottawa are just regular working people too.

I live in Ottawa and saw live broadcasts of what was going on and live brodacasts do not demonstrate media bias...it is what is happening at the very moment.

Media , as a rule, be they conservative, liberal or whatever affiliation you want to put on them, are sensationalist. They show what will attract viewers...irrespective of the viewers political bias. To blame media for any situation is undermining the intelligence of all Canadians.

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

I disagree.

Harper beat Chretien (actually Paul Martin who was a fill in). Mulroney beat Trudeau.

So Conservatives really do have Canadians with them. The party is closely behind the Liberals...almost a virtual tie but Polievere has less than half or Carney support selected by Canadians to be PM.

The liberals bailed the media out of bankruptcy but Harper shunned them and basically shut them out. "Stephen Harper's government generally had a poor, adversarial relationship with the Canadian media, characterized by restricted access, control over messaging, and viewing the press as an adversary rather than a partner, with critics calling it a "dark age" for Canadian journalism and press freedom"

. His government implemented stricter controls, limiting journalist questions at press conferences, controlling information flow, and even planning government-run media centres, which significantly eroded trust and transparency with news outlets"

The Conservatives have not been able to find a leader since Harper. 4 elections, 3 leaders. All have failed to garner the support needed to become government.

I personally stopped supporting conservatives because of this. I did not see leadership in Scheer or O'Toole and certainly not in Polievere. In my opinion, Polievre is the worst of them. He just does not come across as wanting to make Canada better. He is always mad and critical and complaining as opposed to trying to work with government to make it better. He is just not seen as a positive person...by Canadians as the polls show.

So, I agree with you, a truly conservative government could fix the problems but...as with most Canadians, I do not see that happening with the leadership the conservatives have now. I have said in the past and will say again, when the conservatives kinda shoved out Rona Ambrose, they lost their chance. I truly believe she would have ben PM.

At various points in history the parties have swapped platforms and even sides of the political spectrum.  The Chretien years were in my opinion the highest point for that party since the days of Pearson.  Trudeau Senior had more leadership command than any PM in my lifetime, and modern Canada is the result of many of the policies he set in motion (multiculturalism, NEP, bilingualism, etc.), but his policies on the whole haven’t served us well.

Mulroney was the greatest statesman and international face of Canada.  However, Chretien basically had to clean up the overspending and excesses of both the Trudeau and Mulroney eras.  Chretien was a de facto conservative. Like the populists, he knew how to stir the public with some training and development programs that kept the economy from buckling under austerity measures.

Canada was probably at its height in my lifetime under Harper.  The middle class could write off all child program expenses, housing costs weren’t yet out of control, we had about the best balance sheets in the OECD, our dollar was stronger than the U.S. dollar, and we avoided the U.S. recession of 2008.  Basically Harper maintained the sound finances of Chretien and Martin while boosting Canada’s image as a well run, sensible and reliable country.

Justin squandered all of that and left us with much bigger government, a heap of debt, and a country that lost its confidence and international respect.  The jury is out on whether Carney will really restore responsible government and follow through on his splashy announcements.  I think most Canadians are giving him the benefit of a doubt.  If the economy returns to decent growth, job levels rise, fluffy ideological programs are cut, and if the whole shaming of Canada and its founding cultures is terminated, Carney can rightly say that he has substantially improved Canada and the Liberal party.

However, much fluff remains and the economy is tepid. Most promised infrastructure projects are not underway and the steel, aluminum, and auto sectors have not been retooled and put on clear paths to recovery.  Basically if the warmer and fuzzier Carney can’t get it done, we’ll absolutely need a bulldog to break eggs, which is really what was needed the minute Trump threatened our sovereignty and economy. Ford understood that.

Edited December 14, 2025 by Zeitgeist

[ExFlyer]

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

At various points in history the parties have swapped platforms and even sides of the political spectrum.  The Chretien years were in my opinion the highest point for that party since the days of Pearson.  Trudeau Senior had more leadership command than any PM in my lifetime, and modern Canada is the result of many of the policies he set in motion (multiculturalism, NEP, bilingualism, etc.), but his policies on the whole haven’t served us well.

Mulroney was the greatest statesman and international face of Canada.  However, Chretien basically had to clean up the overspending and excesses of both the Trudeau and Mulroney eras.  Chretien was a de facto conservative, though like populists, he knew how to stir the public with some training and development programs that kept the economy from buckling under austerity measures.

Canada was probably at its height in my lifetime under Harper.  The middle class could write off all child program expenses, housing costs weren’t yet out of control, we had about the best balance sheets in the OECD, our dollar was stronger than the U.S. dollar, and we avoided the U.S. recession of 2008.  Basically Harper maintained the sound finances of Chretien and Martin while boosting Canada’s image as a well run, sensible and reliable country.

Justin squandered all of that and left us with much bigger government, a heap of debt, and a country that lost its confidence and international respect.  The jury is out on whether Carney will really restore responsible government and follow through on his splashy announcements.  I think most Canadians are giving him the benefit of a doubt.  If the economy returns to decent growth, job levels rise, fluffy ideological programs are cut, and if the whole shaming of Canada and its founding cultures is terminated, Carney can rightly say that he has substantially improved Canada and the Liberal party.

However, much fluff remains and the economy is tepid.  Most promised infrastructure projects are not underway and the steel, aluminum, and auto sectors have not been retooled and put on clear paths to recovery.  Basically if the warmer and fuzzier Carney can’t get it done, we’ll absolutely need a bulldog to break eggs, which is really what was needed the minute Trump threatened our sovereignty and economy.  

I agree.

I think Carney is new. He is also thrust into the worst political turmoil this country has ever seen or been in. 

Yes, he did make announcements but he did not or could not anticipate Trumps actions or vindictiveness. I am pretty sure he thought that we, as Canadians , will always be accepted and be friends with the US...well that boat sank LOL. 

I think Carneys world travels were needed. He had to get Canadas name out there. Unfortunately, major trade actions and deals do not happen quickly. Agreements can be made but existing contracts and associations have to be honoured and some of those are in effect for a few more years. I think our reputation as honourable, willing and sensible has been accepted and we are looking pretty good on the world stage. ( I follow BBC and some other international news feeds)

Our recovery is coming but, it may take time. No international instant fixes.

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

A truly conservative government that could fix these problems can’t get elected.   

True right wingers would give up on elections and simply do what needs to be done.

[WestCanMan]

1) When MPs were quitting the Liberal caucus, the MSM wasn't talking abut whether or not Trudeau's leadership was in question, an dthat's when he was mired in his 3rd, 4th, or maybe 5th scandal. I can't even keep track. 4 MPs eft during one term for Trudeau

2) You have to wonder what the party of bribery, or at least the people who bribe the libs, is offering these guys. 

When you consider how much crime and grift the LPOC are involved in, it's normal to expect that there us something underhanded going on here.

3) If the MP that I elected did this, there would be a huge f'ing problem. 

Edited December 14, 2025 by WestCanMan

[ExFlyer]

15 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

1) When MPs were quitting the Liberal caucus, ....

They certainly never whined and cried and called the floor crossers traitors etc.

But should a conservative cross the floor...it is a never ending shitshow and personal attack on the person.

No wonder the conservatives are losing public sympathy and trust and seeing how hypocritical the conservative hierarchy can be

Edited December 14, 2025 by ExFlyer

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

His government implemented stricter controls, limiting journalist questions at press conferences, controlling information flow, and even planning government-run media centres, which significantly eroded trust and transparency with news outlets"

Locally, Harper's government, like Chretien's before him, completely ignored every community up and down the coast who objected to their management of fisheries. Harper ultimately followed an IMF prescription for privatizing fish quotas that resulted in bankruptcies, unemployment and a hollowed out economy best characterized by the thousands of abandoned boats and fish plants rotting away, and now discharging lots of toxic pollution I might add, on the coast.

I suppose the Liberals and Conservatives did manage to create a handful of millionaires and made a couple of billionaires richer in the process so there is that.

The one constant that's always shone through whether it's Liberals or Conservatives in charge is that economic inequality has always increased - along with a deep disparity in access to government and influence over its decisions.

The income gap is the only real metric that matters.

[ExFlyer]

39 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Locally, Harper's government, like Chretien's before him, completely ignored every community up and down the coast who objected to their management of fisheries. Harper ultimately followed an IMF prescription for privatizing fish quotas that resulted in bankruptcies, unemployment and a hollowed out economy best characterized by the thousands of abandoned boats and fish plants rotting away, and now discharging lots of toxic pollution I might add, on the coast.

I suppose the Liberals and Conservatives did manage to create a handful of millionaires and made a couple of billionaires richer in the process so there is that.

The one constant that's always shone through whether it's Liberals or Conservatives in charge is that economic inequality has always increased - along with a deep disparity in access to government and influence over its decisions.

The income gap is the only real metric that matters.

Fisheries???

What are you on about??

My comment was in regards to media control by the Liberals and I mentioned that the Harper" government implemented stricter controls, limiting journalist questions at press conferences, controlling information flow, and even planning government-run media centres, which significantly eroded trust and transparency with news outlets"

Are you sure you have used the right comment?

[eyeball]

33 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Are you sure you have used the right comment?

I should have included this reference too I suppose.

5 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Unfortunately the Liberal funded media, Trudeau court appointments, and woke education curriculum pretty much ensure that Canada can’t develop its resources, have a sane tax system, or ensure free speech.

A truly conservative government that could fix these problems can’t get elected.   

I hear what you guys are saying but I think you're missing a point I made when bringing up disparities in income and access/influence to Liberal and Conservative governments.

Fisheries, as I've tried to point out before, are canaries in a coal mine. You want to see what the economic future of Canada looks like? Look no further. Virtually all the issues you guys are talking about can be found in the history of just about any fishing community around the country and even the world that's fallen on hard times. Its all too often a reflection of mis-management and dishonest unaccountable governance where transparency and lack thereof are at the heart of the issue.

Virtually every single time.

Edited December 14, 2025 by eyeball