Global Warming: Man-Made or Natural?

[Nationalist]

10 hours ago, LinkSoul60 said:

The facts have been posted numerous times in this thread.  Not hard to find, unless of course you enjoy the rock you're living under.

There is only one fact. The average temperature has risen a little. The rest is guess work.

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, Nationalist said:

There is only one fact. The average temperature has risen a little. The rest is guess work.

I'll add two more:

Human produced CO2 output has increased by a correlated amount.

And we know that more CO2 creates a greenhouse effect.

[Nationalist]

23 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I'll add two more:

Human produced CO2 output has increased by a correlated amount.

And we know that more CO2 creates a greenhouse effect.

We also know that none of this proves there is an issue, nor that the CO2 is the only factor involved. In fact, we know it isn't the only factor.

We also know that our energy consumption and requirements are increasing and that the "solutions" attempted have imposed inflation on a global scale.

So if your goal is to cause panic and the final destruction of the middle-class, you're doing a bang-up job.

Nothing more.

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, Nationalist said:

1. We also know that none of this proves there is an issue, nor that the CO2 is the only factor involved. In fact, we know it isn't the only factor.

2. We also know that our energy consumption and requirements are increasing and that the "solutions" attempted have imposed inflation on a global scale.

3. So if your goal is to cause panic and the final destruction of the middle-class, you're doing a bang-up job.

1. True.  Urbanization is another source cited, for example.

But we also know that it could never be proven anyway.

2. I haven't heard that but ok.  I would add that fossil fuels are a limited resource.

And note that we're not talking about human-caused warming now.  We're adding in discussion about solutions.

3. Not my goal.  I'm talking about whether human caused warming has sufficient evidence to require discussion.  Not whether there's proof, or imposing a solution.  Because the post I was responding to was about the cause of warming and proof.

[Nationalist]

21 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. True.  Urbanization is another source cited, for example.

But we also know that it could never be proven anyway.

2. I haven't heard that but ok.  I would add that fossil fuels are a limited resource.

And note that we're not talking about human-caused warming now.  We're adding in discussion about solutions.

3. Not my goal.  I'm talking about whether human caused warming has sufficient evidence to require discussion.  Not whether there's proof, or imposing a solution.  Because the post I was responding to was about the cause of warming and proof.

1. It doesn't need to be disproven. It's not a major issue.

2&3. The planet is an oil making system. We're hardly running short of it at all. Were we simply discussing causes, that would be easy. But in trying to avert a perceived problem, we've panicked and caused undue suffering on everyone. 

THAT is the problem.

[Michael Hardner]

12 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

1. Were we simply discussing causes, that would be easy.  

1. No.  That has never been easy, on this board.

I applaud the implication that causes should not longer be the focus of discussion, and economics should.

I'll wait for others to comment.

Thanks.

[Nationalist]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. No.  That has never been easy, on this board.

I applaud the implication that causes should not longer be the focus of discussion, and economics should.

I'll wait for others to comment.

Thanks.

For me, it's always been an economics issue.

We had a global pandemic freakout which seriously hampered the global economies. So in an act of abject stupidity, our governments decided to regulate fossil fuel production and tax it's usage. The result has been a disaster. And for what?

A crisis that isn't.

[Legato]

5 hours ago, robosmith said:

FAKE MEMES are the fantasies of CHILDREN.

You have no evidence that it's a fake, where's your proof. You Dunning Krugered a logical fallacy so your opinions mean nothing. Duh and a secondary Duh

[LMAO}See, no caps.[/LMAO}

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

For me, it's always been an economics issue.

Ok, so are you worried about overall productivity, profits, lives of working people?  What about the economy worries you?

[Nationalist]

8 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Ok, so are you worried about overall productivity, profits, lives of working people?  What about the economy worries you?

Mike...I do not believe that you dont understand basic economics, so please stop playing games.

When all our energy costs rise, all costs rise. It's as simple as that.

[Michael Hardner]

6 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

1. Mike...I do not believe that you dont understand basic economics, so please stop playing games.

2. When all our energy costs rise, all costs rise. It's as simple as that.

1. Fine.  Then answer my question and teach me.

2. What is the ultimate impact?

 

[LinkSoul60]

3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

There is only one fact. The average temperature has risen a little. The rest is guess work.

The rest is science, which for whatever the reason you refuse to accept.

The last 4 decades have each been warmer than the previous.  Scientists overwhelmingly attribute this global warming to human activities, particularly the emission of greenhouse gases.

If you choose not to believe well documented studies by ~97% of climate scientists, so be it...

[Michael Hardner]

7 minutes ago, LinkSoul60 said:

 

If you choose not to believe well documented studies by ~97% of climate scientists, so be it...

The 97% number is itself, not the whole story. 

The 3% of scientists would need to be identified, especially since they're not publishing. There don't seem to be any papers identified In recent memory that reject the consensus position.  The study below says 1993 but I found one reviewed in 1994. Still that's over 30 years. 

Lots of YouTubes and magazine articles, but...

 

https://skepticalscience.com/print.php?r=49

 

[LinkSoul60]

6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

The 97% number is itself, not the whole story. 

The 3% of scientists would need to be identified, especially since they're not publishing. There don't seem to be any papers identified In recent memory that reject the consensus position.  The study below says 1993 but I found one reviewed in 1994. Still that's over 30 years. 

Lots of YouTubes and magazine articles, but...

 

https://skepticalscience.com/print.php?r=49

 

Agree that 97% isn't the whole story, but it paints the obvious picture of a near unanimous consensus of what climate scientists have concluded.

You get it, but for the political or other type of bias reasons some can't seem to understand that. To each their own....

[Deluge]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I'll add two more:

Human produced CO2 output has increased by a correlated amount.

And we know that more CO2 creates a greenhouse effect.

And greenhouse effect will do what? 

[Nationalist]

11 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Fine.  Then answer my question and teach me.

2. What is the ultimate impact?

 

Man you're just being obtuse now.

Are you really trying to say that you dont understand how, when the cost of all fuels are artificially increased, that pretty much the cost of everything increases to compensate?

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, LinkSoul60 said:

The rest is science, which for whatever the reason you refuse to accept.

The last 4 decades have each been warmer than the previous.  Scientists overwhelmingly attribute this global warming to human activities, particularly the emission of greenhouse gases.

If you choose not to believe well documented studies by ~97% of climate scientists, so be it...

Ok...so be it.

And when the taxes and regulations are dropped so inflation can subside, so be it...

[Michael Hardner]

12 minutes ago, Deluge said:

And greenhouse effect will do what? 

Generally, It's reproducible in a lab. There are many YouTube videos you can Google.

[LinkSoul60]

4 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Ok...so be it.

And when the taxes and regulations are dropped so inflation can subside, so be it...

I can make a good argument of climate change affecting the price of goods that cause inflation.  Interested to hear your argument exactly how taxes and regulations will lessen inflation....

[Michael Hardner]

12 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

1. Man you're just being obtuse now.

2. Are you really trying to say that you dont understand how, when the cost of all fuels are artificially increased, that pretty much the cost of everything increases to compensate?

1. I'm not.  I'm trying to get to the core of your concern. 

2. I'm not asking that.

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, LinkSoul60 said:

I can make a good argument of climate change affecting the price of goods that cause inflation.  Interested to hear your argument exactly how taxes and regulations will lessen inflation....

Are you serious?

What does a transport company do when fuel costs rise?

What do businesses do when power costs rise?

[Deluge]

59 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Generally, It's reproducible in a lab. There are many YouTube videos you can Google.

Do any labs show the end result of man-made climate change? 

1 hour ago, LinkSoul60 said:

I can make a good argument of climate change affecting the price of goods that cause inflation.  Interested to hear your argument exactly how taxes and regulations will lessen inflation....

I think you leftoids better stop what you're doing right now and move directly to the caves. I'm sure the Earth doesn't appreciate YOUR contributions to climate crisis. 

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I'm not.  I'm trying to get to the core of your concern. 

2. I'm not asking that.

You know my concern. The issue and the facts of it, do not justify the cost.

Especially when we can research one while making use of the other.

A wise man does not throw out old shoes, before he has a new pair.

Edited August 25, 2025 by Nationalist

[Michael Hardner]

13 minutes ago, Deluge said:

1. Do any labs show the end result of man-made climate change? 

2. I think you leftoids better stop what you're doing right now and move directly to the caves. I'm sure the Earth doesn't appreciate YOUR contributions to climate crisis. 

1. I'll start putting all of these types of responses under 'ridiciulous criteria for action '

2. Insult, again.

We're running out of substantive discussion points...

[Michael Hardner]

11 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

1. You know my concern. The issue and the facts of it, do not justify the cost.

2. Especially when we can research one while making use of the other.

3. A wise man does not throw out old shoes, before he has a new pair.

1. Ok, well you are talking about GDP it seems.

2. Research never stops.

3. We're talking about when to switch energy sources.