Have Trump and his ICE agents become a terrifying Fascist state?

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, gatomontes99 said:

It's a hoot that someone from a country with the greatest human rights violation in the history of man is worried about due process in another country. 

????  Canada has the greatest human rights violation in history!??!

have you even MET germany and japan?   What the eff are you even talking about?

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, User said:

No, not nonsense. Trump challenging rulings within the legal system is not ignoring court orders. 

 

quote

Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia^[a][b] is a Salvadoran who was illegally^[9] deported from the United States on March 15, 2025, in what the Trump administration called "an administrative error".^[10] He was imprisoned without trial in the Salvadoran maximum security Terrorism Confinement Center (CECOT), despite never having been charged with nor convicted of a crime in either country,^[11][12] under the countries' agreement^[13] to imprison U.S. deportees there for payment.^[14] The administration has since defended the deportation, publicly accusing him of being a member of MS-13 (a U.S.-designated terrorist organization), an accusation based on a bail determination made during a 2019 immigration court proceeding, which Abrego Garcia contested.^[15]

Abrego Garcia grew up in El Salvador and then illegally immigrated to the United States in 2011 at the age of 16 to escape gang threats. In 2019, an immigration judge granted him withholding of removal status due to the danger he faced from gang violence if he returned to El Salvador. This status allowed him to live and work legally in the United States. At the time of his deportation in 2025, he lived in Maryland along with his wife and children, all American citizens, and was complying with annual check-ins with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE).^[16]

On April 10, 2025, the Supreme Court of the United States ruled, without dissent,^[c] that Abrego Garcia's removal to El Salvador was illegal.^[19] The court rejected the administration's defense, which claimed it lacked the legal authority to exercise jurisdiction over El Salvador and secure his return. Supreme Court justice Sonia Sotomayor noted that this argument implied the government "could deport and incarcerate any person, including U.S. citizens, without legal consequence, so long as it does so before a court can intervene."

The Supreme Court required the U.S. to "facilitate" Abrego Garcia's release, but stopped short of a lower court's directive to both "facilitate and effectuate" his return, instead directing the lower court to clarify what it meant by "effectuate".^[20] The administration interpreted "facilitate" to mean it is not obligated to arrange his release and return,^[21] and can meet its obligation by admitting him into the U.S.^[21] and providing a plane^[22] if El Salvador chooses to release him, which President Nayib Bukele of El Salvador refuses to do. Bukele stated in an Oval Office meeting that he would not "smuggle a terrorist into the United States".^[23] The case regarding facilitating Abrego Garcia's return continues to be litigated in district court. The government has argued that the case involves state secrets, and refused various discovery requests on that basis.^[24]

U.S. senator Chris Van Hollen met Abrego Garcia in El Salvador on April 18, 2025. Abrego Garcia said he had been transferred from CECOT to another prison in El Salvador, and he is being held in isolation.^[25]

^unquote

Deportation of Kilmar Abrego Garcia - Wikipedia

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

quote

Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia^[a][b] is a Salvadoran who was illegally^[9] deported from the United States on March 15, 2025, in what the Trump administration called "an administrative error".^[10] He was imprisoned without trial in the Salvadoran maximum security Terrorism Confinement Center (CECOT), despite never having been charged with nor convicted of a crime in either country,^[11][12] under the countries' agreement^[13] to imprison U.S. deportees there for payment.^[14] The administration has since defended the deportation, publicly accusing him of being a member of MS-13 (a U.S.-designated terrorist organization), an accusation based on a bail determination made during a 2019 immigration court proceeding, which Abrego Garcia contested.^[15]

Abrego Garcia grew up in El Salvador and then illegally immigrated to the United States in 2011 at the age of 16 to escape gang threats. In 2019, an immigration judge granted him withholding of removal status due to the danger he faced from gang violence if he returned to El Salvador. This status allowed him to live and work legally in the United States. At the time of his deportation in 2025, he lived in Maryland along with his wife and children, all American citizens, and was complying with annual check-ins with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE).^[16]

On April 10, 2025, the Supreme Court of the United States ruled, without dissent,^[c] that Abrego Garcia's removal to El Salvador was illegal.^[19] The court rejected the administration's defense, which claimed it lacked the legal authority to exercise jurisdiction over El Salvador and secure his return. Supreme Court justice Sonia Sotomayor noted that this argument implied the government "could deport and incarcerate any person, including U.S. citizens, without legal consequence, so long as it does so before a court can intervene."

The Supreme Court required the U.S. to "facilitate" Abrego Garcia's release, but stopped short of a lower court's directive to both "facilitate and effectuate" his return, instead directing the lower court to clarify what it meant by "effectuate".^[20] The administration interpreted "facilitate" to mean it is not obligated to arrange his release and return,^[21] and can meet its obligation by admitting him into the U.S.^[21] and providing a plane^[22] if El Salvador chooses to release him, which President Nayib Bukele of El Salvador refuses to do. Bukele stated in an Oval Office meeting that he would not "smuggle a terrorist into the United States".^[23] The case regarding facilitating Abrego Garcia's return continues to be litigated in district court. The government has argued that the case involves state secrets, and refused various discovery requests on that basis.^[24]

U.S. senator Chris Van Hollen met Abrego Garcia in El Salvador on April 18, 2025. Abrego Garcia said he had been transferred from CECOT to another prison in El Salvador, and he is being held in isolation.^[25]

^unquote

Deportation of Kilmar Abrego Garcia - Wikipedia

But even trump says that was an error.  There's no legal system in the world that doesn't make mistakes, which is one of the reasons i'm firmly against capital punishment. 

It's pretty clear that trump is cutting every corner he can but i don't think you've shown enough evidence to say he's crossed the line into totalitarianism. 

[Deluge]

16 hours ago, blackbird said:

It's the way Trump and ICE are going about it.  They don't respect due process at all and human rights.  They don't care about any legal process and have no conscience about taking kids away from their parents and locking anybody up.

You keep parroting nonsense about due process without acknowledging illegal entry. We can't award unlawful behavior, and breaking into this country is unlawful behavior. Do you understand this or does it exceed the parameters of your left-wing indoctrination?  

Edited Thursday at 02:29 PM by Deluge

[blackbird]

Quite a number of migrants have been sent to the notorious CECOT prison in El Salvador, where many people have died due to inhumane conditions.  It is a place of systematic torture where people die even though they were not sentenced to death by any court.  The Trump administration pays El Salvador six million dollars a year to put migrants in this place.

"

Terrorism Confinement Center

[edit]

Main article: Terrorism Confinement Center

Salvadoran justice minister Gustavo Villatoro (left) and U.S. homeland security secretary Kristi Noem (right) observing inmates inside a cell in CECOT, March 2025

Prisoners are held in large concrete cells that the Associated Press reports can house 65 to 70 individuals, but in videos lack enough bunks for everyone.^[92] The BBC reports that with access severely restricted and journalists only allowed on choreographed tours, the number of inmates per cell is not clear, that some rights groups put it at 80 while others say it can go above 150, and that when asked, the prison's director responded "where you can fit 10 people, you can fit 20."^[93] The cells are furnished with four-story bunks of bare metal without mattresses or sheets, two toilets, two sinks^[94] (reported by CNN as a cement basin and plastic bucket for washing, and a jug of drinking water)^[95] and two Bibles.^[96] The cells are artificially lit 24 hours a day^[96] and the temperature can reach 35 °C (95 °F) in daytime.^[94] Prisoners are allowed to leave their cells for 30 minutes a day for group exercise in the hallway.^[93][94] There are no visits, letters,^[97] workshops, or prison educational programs, and prisoners are not allowed outside.^[92] Food is served without utensils, to keep them from being fashioned into weapons.^[94] Occasionally, prisoners who have gained a level of trust give motivational talks,^[92] which CNN reported as Bible readings during the hallway half-hour.^[97]

CNN said two sources told it the deportees' situation is less regimented, but with the same facilities. The prison director said of the deportees, "there are no privileges."^[95]

El Salvador's Minister of Justice has said those held at CECOT would never return to their communities,^[92] and the BBC in 2024 cited Miguel Sarre, formerly of the United Nations Subcommittee for the Prevention of Torture, as warning that CECOT appeared to be used "to dispose of people without formally applying the death penalty," referring to the fact that no-one had so far been released from the jail. Cristosal [es], which the BBC described as El Salvador's primary human rights organization, has documented torture and more than 150 deaths in custody in the country during the ongoing state of exception. Amnesty International has accused Salvadoran authorities of "a systematic policy of torture towards all those detained under the state of emergency on suspicion of being gang members," leading to deaths in custody, and of other prisoners dying due to inhumane conditions and denial of medical care and medicine.^[94]

Deportation of Kilmar Abrego Garcia - Wikipedia

[User]

52 minutes ago, blackbird said:

quote

What about it?

From your own link:

"The case regarding facilitating Abrego Garcia's return continues to be litigated in district court."

18 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Quite a number of migrants have been sent to the notorious CECOT prison in El Salvador

What about it?

As I said before and you ignored:

 

"You are now conflating two different things. You started this thread talking about ICE showing up at immigration hearings to detain illegal immigrants complaining about the kids not going to jail with the parents... 

Now you are changing the subject to a specific use of the Alien Enemies Act regarding violent gang members from Venezuela. "

[Deluge]

22 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Quite a number of migrants have been sent to the notorious CECOT prison in El Salvador,

blackbird and robosmith were generated from the same computer program. 

[blackbird]

15 minutes ago, User said:

What about it?

"

Matthew 7:16-23

King James Version

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

 

The issue is really quite simple, but you can't seem to understand.

Deporting people without due process is against human rights and sending people to a notorious prison of torture and death is even worse.  Alleging people are gang members when it is questionable or unproven and then sending them to a notorious foreign prison in defiance of court orders is horrendous, as in the case of Abrego Garcia.    It defies logic as to why you would find all that acceptable.

 

 

[User]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

Deporting people without due process is against human rights and sending people to a notorious prison of torture and death is even worse.  Alleging people are gang members when it is questionable or unproven and then sending them to a notorious foreign prison in defiance of court orders is horrendous, as in the case of Abrego Garcia.    It defies logic as to why you would find all that acceptable.

These are illegal immigrant gangs invading our country from a known bad actor state. 

Trump is using all legal means available to remove them from the country. 

This is a completely different segment of illegal immigrants than what you started this thread to complain about. 

That "court order" was not in writing and the Trump team followed the law as they believed it applied here. It was not "ignored" or in "defiance" of a court order. 

Abrego Garcia was an accident. At this point, the outcome is going to be the same regardless, so I don't really care all that much if we bring him back and deport him again or not. 

I think the administration should work more to bring him back and then promptly lock him up and proceed to deport him again. 

 

 

[Deluge]

5 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Deporting people illegal aliens without due process is 

good. 

Yes, it's very good. Not only is it good, but it's the right and lawful thing to do. 

Thank you, Blackbird, for helping illustrate this crucial point. 

[blackbird]

3 minutes ago, User said:

Trump is using all legal means available to remove them from the country. 

You are lying.   "On April 10, 2025, the Supreme Court of the United States ruled, without dissent,^[c] that Abrego Garcia's removal to El Salvador was illegal.^[19] The court rejected the administration's defense, which claimed it lacked the legal authority to exercise jurisdiction over El Salvador and secure his return. Supreme Court justice Sonia Sotomayor noted that this argument implied the government "could deport and incarcerate any person, including U.S. citizens, without legal consequence, so long as it does so before a court can intervene."

Many people have been apprehended and deported to the notorious prison in El Salvador without any trial or due process.  That is a simple fact.

[Nationalist]

16 hours ago, blackbird said:

I don't believe in Fascism where people are not given due process.  America is supposed to be a country of law and due processes, not arbitrary arrest and deportation with no process.  Hope you don't agree with how Hitler and Stalin operated.  Canada has a process which is followed to deport people and those people have a legal right to appeal any rulings.

Due process? Brandon and Mayorkis allowed tens of millions to simply waltz across the border. Is that due process?

You can wear your heart on your sleave if you like but, Trump will clean up the mess Brandon made. As for Mayorkis...he belongs in jail.

10 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You are lying.   "On April 10, 2025, the Supreme Court of the United States ruled, without dissent,^[c] that Abrego Garcia's removal to El Salvador was illegal.^[19] The court rejected the administration's defense, which claimed it lacked the legal authority to exercise jurisdiction over El Salvador and secure his return. Supreme Court justice Sonia Sotomayor noted that this argument implied the government "could deport and incarcerate any person, including U.S. citizens, without legal consequence, so long as it does so before a court can intervene."

Many people have been apprehended and deported to the notorious prison in El Salvador without any trial or due process.  That is a simple fact.

And fck 'em. Good riddance.

[Deluge]

21 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You are lying.   "On April 10, 2025, the Supreme Court of the United States ruled, without dissent,^[c] that Abrego Garcia's removal to El Salvador was illegal.^[19] The court rejected the administration's defense, which claimed it lacked the legal authority to exercise jurisdiction over El Salvador and secure his return. Supreme Court justice Sonia Sotomayor noted that this argument implied the government "could deport and incarcerate any person, including U.S. citizens, without legal consequence, so long as it does so before a court can intervene."

Many people have been apprehended and deported to the notorious prison in El Salvador without any trial or due process.  That is a simple fact.

"DHS sets the record straight about Kilmar Abrego Garcia"

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2025/04/14/icymi-dhs-sets-record-straight-about-kilmar-abrego-garcia

ALL illegal aliens must be deported, and the worst of the bunch have been going first. 

blackbird supports illegal immigration and should probably be arrested. 

[User]

48 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You are lying. 

No, I am not. You can't read. I said:

"Abrego Garcia was an accident."

 

[gatomontes99]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

????  Canada has the greatest human rights violation in history!??!

have you even MET germany and japan?   What the eff are you even talking about?

I've met single payer health care. It kills more people and makes them happy to submit to it. At least the Russians and Jews knew enough to fight back against Stalin and Hitler. 

[eyeball]

19 hours ago, blackbird said:

It's the way Trump and ICE are going about it.  They don't respect due process at all and human rights.

I thought that aspect of these deportations is what makes them so popular.

[Deluge]

41 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I thought that aspect of these deportations is what makes them so popular.

You thought wrong. 

But I'll tell you what excites your side the most: 

 

[taxme]

18 hours ago, blackbird said:

I don't believe in Fascism where people are not given due process.  America is supposed to be a country of law and due processes, not arbitrary arrest and deportation with no process.  Hope you don't agree with how Hitler and Stalin operated.  Canada has a process which is followed to deport people and those people have a legal right to appeal any rulings.

I believe in real and true conservatism. All illegals who have entered Canada illegally have no right to due process. They committed a crime by entering Canada illegally and should be deported with no due process. That due process leftist lieberal nonsense that they should have due process is beyond stupid. 

It would appear as though that you are listening way too much to CNN and MSNBC. Try listening to FOX NEWS at night for a change to get the real facts about illegal immigration. Trump is doing the right thing. Arresting and sending back illegal aliens, many of the bad hombres, from whence they came. Why should the American taxpayer's spend American tax dollars on due process for criminals who entered America illegally. It's bloody ridiculous. 👎

 

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, taxme said:

Why should the American taxpayer's spend American tax dollars on due process for criminals who entered America illegally. It's bloody ridiculous. 👎

I hope you remember your words when the government does something unfair to you.  Maybe the Canada Revenue Agency fines you for something you didn't do or maybe the RCMP arrests you for a crime you didn't commit.  Then we will see how you oppose due process won't we.

[User]

46 minutes ago, blackbird said:

I hope you remember your words when the government does something unfair to you.  Maybe the Canada Revenue Agency fines you for something you didn't do or maybe the RCMP arrests you for a crime you didn't commit.  Then we will see how you oppose due process won't we.

What is unfair here?

People are here illegally, and they are being deported. 

 

 

[CdnFox]

6 hours ago, gatomontes99 said:

I've met single payer health care. It kills more people and makes them happy to submit to it. At least the Russians and Jews knew enough to fight back against Stalin and Hitler. 

Sigh.

 Usually you're a pretty clever guy, but that was like 'robosmith' level stupid. 

We can discuss the pros and cons of public health insurance instead of private health care but calling it the "Worlds greatest human rights violation in history" is just ídiotic.  You know that right? You don't need me to explain why that was over the top right?    Geeez. 

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, User said:

What is unfair here?

People are here illegally, and they are being deported. 

 

 

Only a simpleton thinks like that.  There are lots of extenuating factors.  Every case is different.  There are laws and courts and human rights that play into it. 

[robosmith]

23 hours ago, blackbird said:

No, that's not how it works.  There is a justice system, laws and processes that must be followed and everyone has the right to the due process.  You sound like you don't believe in a legal framework with rights and due process for everyone.  I have a surprise for you.  Due process is how it works in Canada.  What is going on the U.S. would never happen in Canada under our system.   I corresponded with a cabinet Minister, possibly the federal Minister of Justice, a long time ago about a case and I was told everyone has the right to appeal and follow the due process before they are deported.  That is exactly what he told me.

The SCOTUS has ruled that immigration must give detainees due process much greater than the 24 hours they were being given, but DHS has been ROUTINELY ignoring that requirement. That has been called a Constitutional crisis.

They've been caught ON CAMERA trying to sneak busloads off to airports to fly them to foreign countries and in some cases those busses turned around and brought them back, after being filmed.

[robosmith]

7 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Due process? Brandon and Mayorkis allowed tens of millions to simply waltz across the border. Is that due process?

You can wear your heart on your sleave if you like but, Trump will clean up the mess Brandon made. As for Mayorkis...he belongs in jail.

Biden followed the LAW which requires allowing applications for ASYLUM. 

You "understanding" of US law is just BULLSHIT.

7 hours ago, Nationalist said:

And fck 'em. Good riddance.

^Despicable lack of empathy for the extremely downtrodden. Can tell you have NO MORALS WHATSOEVER;^HELLBOUND..

 

[User]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

Only a simpleton thinks like that.  There are lots of extenuating factors.  Every case is different.  There are laws and courts and human rights that play into it. 

Lets get some folks together to come over to your home and rob from you. 

Then you can sit around and wonder if they should be arrested or not because of "extenuating factors"

The only simpleton arguments here are yours, as you repeatedly refuse to look at the facts and claim that human rights are being violated because ICE doesn't put kids in jail with their parents.