PM Carney's chant of stop the war in Gaza is saying let Hamas carry on its attacks on Israel

[User]

9 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I did address it. Resistance is the refusal to submit to oppression - the goal being to reduce or eliminate it.

You disagree?

How. What methods do you support?

You refuse to say, because you want to play it both ways. You want to cowardly vaguely support Hamas and what they did, but just not outright admit to it. 

 

[Legato]

21 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I did address it. Resistance is the refusal to submit to oppression - the goal being to reduce or eliminate it.

You disagree?

More obfuscation.

You did not address the points made, instead made a snide comment.

"Palestinians" want all Jews dead wherever they are. Not resistance, just religious dogma.

[eyeball]

30 minutes ago, User said:

How. What methods do you support?

No more or less than what your oppressors are using against you. But preferably less for sure.

Two wrongs never help.

34 minutes ago, User said:

You refuse to say, because you want to play it both ways. You want to cowardly vaguely support Hamas and what they did, but just not outright admit to it. 

And you still haven't acknowledged the legitimacy of even a single Palestinian grievance because you only want this to play out one way.

Good luck with that.

[eyeball]

32 minutes ago, Legato said:

You did not address the points made

What points? There was only one about what resistance is and why people resist.

What would you do if it was you being told to leave at gunpoint or had family members killed for refusing?

I've been asking you people to address this for months. On the odd rare occasion I get the sense you'd submit.

Seriously?

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Which means Canada supports Hamas and the attack on Oct 7.

If you're in for a penny....

Not at all. See the thing is they actually condemned the original attacks with no reservation. Now they have concerns what Israel is doing. There's no hypocrisy there

You condemn what Israel is doing but absolutely 100% back the terrorist attacks of October 7th as being a fight against repression. That makes you an absolute hypocrite.

So it's an important difference

[Moonlight Graham]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

Well it's just a good thing conservatives are running things over there isn't it.

Good job btw.

Whattaboutism, i don't support a lot of what Netanyahu's gov does, like using food aid as a negotiation tactic.

[User]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

No more or less than what your oppressors are using against you. But preferably less for sure.

Two wrongs never help.

More vague BS so you can support Hamas and their terrorism. 

 

[Army Guy]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

Which means Canada supports Hamas and the attack on Oct 7.

If you're in for a penny....

No, it means the sanctions where all politics, and will have none to little effect on this conflict...

[Army Guy]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

I did address it. Resistance is the refusal to submit to oppression - the goal being to reduce or eliminate it.

You disagree?

What oppressions exactly, Gaza was handed over to the palestinian people years ago, everything that has been done was in fact a decision by HAMAS, ...Israel gave them exactly what they wanted....a two state solution,

instead they elected a terrorist government, and that government vowed the destruction of Israel....no talk about a two state solution or peace... Thats who you support, well you and 40 % of Canadians who have sucked back Palestinian propaganda like it was crack cocaine... And now everyone is crying in their cereal because palestinian people are hungry and have to live in the rubble... This is a crises of their own making...and will not end until Hamas is destroyed or the entire Palestinian population in Gaza.

Edited Wednesday at 10:48 PM by Army Guy

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

You condemn what Israel is doing but absolutely 100% back the terrorist attacks of October 7th as being a fight against repression.

I condemn the atrocities both sides commit.You don't because you support the oppression.

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Whattaboutism, i don't support a lot of what Netanyahu's gov does, like using food aid as a negotiation tactic.

Sure but I'm quite certain you'd submit to his oppression anyway Am I right?

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

No, it means the sanctions where all politics, and will have none to little effect on this conflict...

Don't worry, I'm not under any illusions this conflict won't end for generations to come.

And seriously, anything but 100% support for the oppression of Palestinians means Canada supports the rape and murder of Israelis.

Like I said, I don't write the rules around this stuff. I mean, it was only a few short years ago your ilk were seriously comparing Trudeau to a fascist dictator who also just happened to hate Jews so....

Why are you downplaying and candy-coating Canada's anti-Semitic hatred all of a sudden?

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

What oppressions exactly

The same oppression that's been happening for a century.

Did you just come into the discussion the other day or something? You should go do some research around the issue, you clearly have a lot to catch up on.

Let us know what you find, especially User.

[Venandi]

Just my opinion but:

Palestinian grievances will never be addressed until they renounce their commitment to the destruction of Israel, the killing of Jews, and choose to adopt political objectives instead of religious ones. It's that simple and that complicated. Historical perspectives simply don't matter unless you have a time machine or can convince Israel to voluntarily cease to exist as a nation. Both are improbable so you have to deal with the here and now with all of its warts. 

I've talked to old Palestinian men who grew up on their grandfather's farm which is now occupied by Israeli families. I get it, most farm boys do... but in the absence of a time machine it just doesn't matter. The reality of the situation is what it is and in some ways is analogous to the "stolen land acknowledgements" discussed in another thread. No one in Canada is going to sell their house, take the proceeds of the sale down to the nearest band office, and spend their retirement years living in the car. People need to hoist aboard the fact that Jews aren't going to do that either.   

Palestinians have lost ground and traction under HAMAS and they've become more fanatical than they were during the period prior to HAMAS. Other Arab countries (who publicly sympathize with their plight) simply will not accept refuges because they know the outcome of doing so. Egypt (as a for instance) doesn't want to see the eastern Sinai turned into a launch pad for missile attacks into Israel because they know it would trigger an Israeli military response on their territory... that's exactly what would happen and it would be western aid money that financed it. If you see that response as oppression then cool... I got nothing for ya in the way of solutions other than negotiating political objectives to improve the life of people in Gaza based on the facts of life as they exist in the here and now. 

The lack of political objectives that can be negotiated over time is governing and it creates a complete roadblock to peace. I often ask but never get a direct answer to the question of how to negotiate with a HAMAS when their religious objective is the destruction of Israel. I submit that you can't and never will.

HAMAS has to go and it has to go for the good of both the peace process and the Palestinian people. Once gone, care must be taken to ensure it isn't replaced by something worse. 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 01:32 AM by Venandi

[eyeball]

11 minutes ago, Venandi said:

I often ask but never get a direct answer to the question of how to negotiate with a HAMAS when their religious objective is the destruction of Israel. I submit that you can't and never will.

You need secular lefties to negotiate peace in the region that's how.

You'll still be at it a thousand years from now if you leave religious conservatives in charge of everything.

[Venandi]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

You need secular lefties to negotiate peace in the region that's how.

Cool, I have an nominee in mind... what's the plan?

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, Venandi said:

Cool, I have an nominee in mind... what's the plan?

Peace. It's pretty simple.

[Venandi]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Peace. It's pretty simple.

You might want to be a bit more specific, no sense showing up without a plan... a common fail point with secular lefties.

How about a radio station to win hearts and minds in the region, this was the one I listened to while deployed there.... pssst, it didn't work.

  

 

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

I condemn the atrocities both sides commit.You don't because you support the oppression.

But you don't and we've been through this. You absolutely support them as part of "resistance"  which you can't even define very well.  You do not condemn it, you pretend to in one moment and go right back to insisting it's appropriate, 

23 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Peace. It's pretty simple.

Then kill everyone. That brings peace. 

Sometimes peace isn't worth the cost. 

If palestine wanted peace, there would be peace tomorrow. If the jews tried to have peace without that there'd be a new genocide. 

[eyeball]

17 minutes ago, Venandi said:

You might want to be a bit more specific, no sense showing up without a plan... a common fail point with secular lefties.

I'd probably try going back to where the Oslo Accords left off.

First however I think there'll need to be a big peacekeeping effort to give Israelis and Palestinians enough time to cool off that their societies can produce the secular lefties the task will require.

It'll take a huge effort at least a couple of generations in duration. Maybe more.

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

I'd probably try going back to where the Oslo Accords left off.

First however I think there'll need to be a big peacekeeping effort to give Israelis and Palestinians enough time to cool off that their societies can produce the secular lefties the task will require.

It'll take a huge effort at least a couple of generations in duration. Maybe more.

They tried Big peacekeeping efforts. That is something that is already been done.

Nothing changes until Hamas and the people of Gaza decide that peace is the most important thing. And if that can't happen then the only real option is to either slaughter them or scatter them to the winds. You're not going to negotiate please what people who don't want it. Especially not while you're there telling them that they were totally right to do to over 7th because resistance

[Legato]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I'd probably try going back to where the Oslo Accords left off.

First however I think there'll need to be a big peacekeeping effort to give Israelis and Palestinians enough time to cool off that their societies can produce the secular lefties the task will require.

It'll take a huge effort at least a couple of generations in duration. Maybe more.

That would be like the Pope condemning Catholicism

 

[eyeball]

11 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

You absolutely support them as part of "resistance" which you can't even define very well.

No, I said they're an inevitability of oppression. The longer and worse the oppression gets the worse the resistance will be.

And what part of refusing to submit to oppression is it that you people don't get?

 

[eyeball]

11 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

They tried Big peacekeeping efforts. That is something that is already been done.

It obviously hasn't been hard enough.

11 minutes ago, Legato said:

That would be like the Pope condemning Catholicism.

One thing at a time.

[CdnFox]

7 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No, I said they're an inevitability of oppression.

 

No you said every human being has the right to fight back against oppression, which is very different. And you've been quite clear.  You've stated in plain english many times over that you felt the attack was justified (and given the weakest definition of oppression ever as your excuse 

Further claiming it's "inevitable" is still condoning it  You're saying that there was NO OTHER CHOICE..... but of course there was.  But again what you really said was they have a right to do it. They absolutely do not

And this is the pattern I mentioned before. You very clearly come out and support of it with no uncertain terms, then when you get called on that you turn around and try and claim that you're against it, and then quickly turn around and endorse it again

To be clear the terrorists had absolutely no right or justification whatsoever in any fashion to do what they did on October 7th, and they are currently getting the snap bombed out of them as a result. The civilian casualties are also the result of their choices as they decided to use their own people as meat shields. And that was the plan all along, because it was hoped that that would raise sympathy at the UN as it has in the past.

The deaths they are suffering now are a choice and nobody else's choice but their own. It was not inevitable, it was not justified, is not their right, it was an absolutely horrible decision based on their blind desire to kill others and their hopes for political and monetary benefits from the world community which didn't happen.

They can wallow in the rebel heap which is their country and die.