China wants to Unite with Canada to counteract Trump bullying

[Boges]

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/world/china-proposes-alliance-with-canada-to-counter-us-influence/ar-AA1Dw73n

Quote

 

China is offering Canada a partnership against the aggressive actions of the United States, reported The Canadian Press agency, citing the Chinese ambassador to Ottawa. Wang Di said in an interview with the agency that China wants to avoid a return to the "law of the jungle."

Wang described the actions of the United States as "bullying" and suggested that China and Canada should form a partnership against Washington's undermining of the rules governing global politics and convince other countries to join such a partnership. He referred to Canada as China's "neighbour" across the Pacific.

We have taken notice that, faced with the U.S.’s unilateral bullying, Canada has not backed down. Instead, Canada is standing on the right side of the history, on the right side of international fairness and justice - Wang said.

 

I'm sure this is just an attempt to influence the election Monday, but right now China is the more reliable trading partner. 

If you've ever checked, most of the stuff in Canadian Tire is Chinese. It's impossible to conceive a functioning Canada without trade with China. 

[Scott75]

11 minutes ago, Boges said:

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/world/china-proposes-alliance-with-canada-to-counter-us-influence/ar-AA1Dw73n

I'm sure this is just an attempt to influence the election Monday, but right now China is the more reliable trading partner. 

If you've ever checked, most of the stuff in Canadian Tire is Chinese. It's impossible to conceive a functioning Canada without trade with China. 

I definitely think that creating fair international trade rules sounds like a good idea, regardless of who's proposing the idea.

[eyeball]

I'm all for it so long as China starts making substantial inroads on respecting human rights at home and abroad.

Otherwise forget it.

[TreeBeard]

Without the USA cooperation building cars, we need an auto-pact with China asap.  There are going to be massive layoffs in the auto sector fairly rapidly.  And the price of cars is going to increase significantly.  Unfortunately, China is the alternative.  

Edited Thursday at 06:16 PM by TreeBeard

[Michael Hardner]

Interesting idea.

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

I'm all for it so long as China starts making substantial inroads on respecting human rights at home and abroad.

Otherwise forget it.

I assume the bar is lower, now that our number one trading partner kidnaps people and deports them without due process.

[Boges]

35 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Without the USA cooperation building cars, we need an auto-pact with China asap.  There are going to be massive layoffs in the auto sector fairly rapidly.  And the price of cars is going to increase significantly.  Unfortunately, China is the alternative.  

 

Trump basically said, yesterday, that he doesn't want any cars made in Canada. I guess he just wants to sell domestically now. 

Blowing up the Auto Pact basically ends The Big 3. 

I wouldn't mind having access to Chinese EVs. If we have any hope of weening ourself off ICE vehicles, they seem like the shot. 

[TreeBeard]

3 minutes ago, Boges said:

 

Trump basically said, yesterday, that he doesn't want any cars made in Canada. I guess he just wants to sell domestically now. 

Blowing up the Auto Pact basically ends The Big 3. 

I wouldn't mind having access to Chinese EVs. If we have any hope of weening ourself off ICE vehicles, they seem like the shot. 

Unfortunately, we haven’t done enough to get Japanese and Korean automakers here either.  It will take years to get out of the hole that has been dug for us.  
 

The Big 3 should be the last choice of vehicle for Canadians to buy in the next decade.  If Canada doesn’t have a stake in their manufacturing, we certainly won’t have an incentive to keep the Chinese from taking over the market with cheaper alternatives.  

[herbie]

Let them build affordable EV plants in Canada. Or hell, even reopen the Studebaker plant.
We don't have to sell them to the US.

[eyeball]

30 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Interesting idea.

I assume the bar is lower, now that our number one trading partner kidnaps people and deports them without due process.

Then we set ours higher and start a race to the top.

[TreeBeard]

40 minutes ago, herbie said:

Let them build affordable EV plants in Canada. Or hell, even reopen the Studebaker plant.
We don't have to sell them to the US.

Thats the problem though….  China is probably not interested in building plants using Canadian workers.  They want to sell Canada the finished product.  I’m sure there is a deal to be made, but it’s not going to look great.  It’s going to take some brutal compromises, I think. 
 

We’re not going to be negotiating from a position of strength, or even with a nation that would see us as an equal partner hoping for a win-win. 

Edited Thursday at 07:46 PM by TreeBeard

[Michael Hardner]

41 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Thats the problem though….  China is probably not interested in building plants using Canadian workers.  They want to sell Canada the finished product.  I’m sure there is a deal to be made, but it’s not going to look great.  It’s going to take some brutal compromises, I think. 
 

We’re not going to be negotiating from a position of strength, or even with a nation that would see us as an equal partner hoping for a win-win. 

Given the reported LOW sale price for said vehicles, what would be the issue with additional Canadian labour component even if it drives the price up a little?

 

This topic screams for an industry expert 

...

[eyeball]

10 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Given the reported LOW sale price for said vehicles, what would be the issue with additional Canadian labour component even if it drives the price up a little?

 

This topic screams for an industry expert 

...

Along with an expert in human Rights and trade.

[TreeBeard]

12 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Given the reported LOW sale price for said vehicles, what would be the issue with additional Canadian labour component even if it drives the price up a little?

 

This topic screams for an industry expert 

...

The issue is that China want their people employed, not Canadians.  We’re not a big enough market to be dictating terms like that, from what I can see.  

If we were negotiating from a position of strength, we would make that a condition of access to our market.  You can sell your cars here, but they have to be built here.  
 

But we will be negotiating from a position of desperation.  The best we can hope for is maybe building batteries, or another component here.  The benefits will be cheap EVs that are more affordable for the autoworkers who were out of a job but now have to work at the Chinese EV car dealerships for half the pay. 

[Aristides]

Interesting but like the US, China will act in its interests. Building cars in Canada might be in China's interest if it means excluding the US from an export market. Not because of what it will do for us but for what it will do to the US.

We need to be very careful when it comes to dealing with China.

[herbie]

5 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

China is probably not interested in building plants using Canadian workers

Well then they won't get to sell them here will they?
Did we not build cars just for Canadian sales before NAFTA and the Auto Pact?
Do we even want to make 'deals' with a lying scumbag known to rip them up on a whim?
Did Australia revert to the Stone Age over auto manufacturing?
We know Silverados and Dodge Chrgers don't sell in Europe but RAV4a and Hondas sell like hotcakes in countries not intent on f*cking us over.

[TreeBeard]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

Well then they won't get to sell them here will they?

No jobs for us then.  I think we need them more than they need us.  That’s the problem. 

 

1 hour ago, herbie said:

Did we not build cars just for Canadian sales before NAFTA and the Auto Pact?

Maybe.  And we had a lot less jobs and fewer market opportunities.  

 

1 hour ago, herbie said:

Did Australia revert to the Stone Age over auto manufacturing?

No.  They did lose a lot of good paying jobs in recent years though. 

 

1 hour ago, herbie said:

We know Silverados and Dodge Chrgers don't sell in Europe but RAV4a and Hondas sell like hotcakes in countries not intent on f*cking us over.

We’re not building those for the European market.  We were building those for the American market.  You seem to be missing the issue here….  

Edited yesterday at 02:10 AM by TreeBeard

[herbie]

1 hour ago, TreeBeard said:

2 hours ago, herbie said:

Did we not build cars just for Canadian sales before NAFTA and the Auto Pact?

Maybe

Not maybe, we did. The highschool parking lot was full of them. But w=all the jobs we gained with NAFTA were predominantly US market models.

We need some outfit to design and bild a World model a la Caravan, Jeep XJ, Civic not tied to cheap gas land USA.
And a govt that will commit, like Canada Post should be committing to the Brightdrop EV delivery van.

1 hour ago, TreeBeard said:

We’re not building those for the European market.

Why the f not? "we" don't market them, the makers do. They're the ones f*cking up, not the govt. Ever seen those car carriers? The USS Missouri came for a visit to Vancouver once and a car carrier passed it in the harbour. Made the battleship look like a matchstick floating in a puddle. Wouldn't it be nice to fill it up with Cdn cars going back?

We need even more Free Trade and agreements, not this 1930s isolationist bullshit Trump is spewing. And the makers need to take this as a warning and think of world buyers. And what will sell in volume, again, not just the maximum profit margin per car.

[Boges]

I think it was a mistake to make a good chunk of our export market dependent on the Auto Industry. There were always signs. The amount of times the government has had to step in to save these low-skill high paying factory jobs because of all the jobs tied to them. 

I think the US shreds the Auto Pact at their peril. Their consumers also won't buy cars with a 25% tariff slapped on it. We see that these tariffs are going to hurt their market as much and Trump will be the one to blame. 

[Nationalist]

18 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Interesting idea.

I assume the bar is lower, now that our number one trading partner kidnaps people and deports them without due process.

People? Murderers and gang-bangers...wife-beaters and child trafficers are people?

[Boges]

1 minute ago, Nationalist said:

People? Murderers and gang-bangers...wife-beaters and child trafficers are people?

I could accuse you of being those things. Without due process you couldn't deny it. 

 

[Nationalist]

2 minutes ago, Boges said:

I could accuse you of being those things. Without due process you couldn't deny it. 

 

Yes well...I also happen to be what we call...A CITIZEN and have no associations with fcking murderers.

So ya...there's that.

[Boges]

28 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Yes well...I also happen to be what we call...A CITIZEN and have no associations with fcking murderers.

So ya...there's that.

The US constitution doesn't specify that due process is only set aside for citizens. 

But you bring up a good point. The narrative that non-citizens can be shipped off to a gulag without due process is an excellent reason to stay away from the United States. 

Which is a big reason why their tourism sector is tanking. 

Edited yesterday at 02:12 PM by Boges

[Nationalist]

27 minutes ago, Boges said:

The US constitution doesn't specify that due process is only set aside for citizens. 

But you bring up a good point. The narrative that non-citizens can be shipped off to a gulag without due process is an excellent reason to stay away from the United States. 

Which is a big reason why their tourism sector is tanking. 

I have no fear of travelling to the USA. I go...I see...I leave when I'm supposed to.

Tens of millions are in the USA illegally. They are criminals. The LAW says they should be deported.

You do think the law is important...don't you?

[Boges]

16 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

I have no fear of travelling to the USA. I go...I see...I leave when I'm supposed to.

Tens of millions are in the USA illegally. They are criminals. The LAW says they should be deported.

You do think the law is important...don't you?

Sure. The law makes mistakes, that's why due process exists. 

[Nationalist]

17 minutes ago, Boges said:

Sure. The law makes mistakes, that's why due process exists. 

Well its my understanding that "due process" will be given in Texas.

Enjoy that.