WestCanMan Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 (edited) So tens of thousands of people died in the Ukraine war. Cities were destroyed. It ramped up to the point where missiles were being fired into Russia and Kiev, and North Korean soldiers joined the war. In that whole time, Biden never even talked about peace. The deaths apparently meant nothing to him. In that whole time, Biden's hundreds of billions of dollars couldn't stop Russia's progress across southern Ukraine. The war of attrition was being lost day by day. Biden absolutely had the power to end this war years ago, with tens of thousands less deaths and no territory lost Trump inherited a war with tens of thousands of deaths, tens of thousands of sq km or Ukrainian territory lost leftists are mad that Trump can't magically move Ukraine's borders back to where they were, but they're not mad at Biden. This is madness. WHAT DID UKRAINE GAIN FROM THIS WAR?????? WHY DID BIDEN LET IT HAPPEN??? WHY DIDN'T BIDEN END IT SOONER???? Edited February 20 by Greg removed duplicate word in thread title 2 1 Quote If CNN gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. If you missed something on the Cultist Narrative Network, don't worry, the dolt horde here will make sure everyone hears it. "If it didn't come from CNN, it's heresy!" - leftist "intellectuals"
herbie Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 Very descriptive title.Nothing but Total f*cking bullshit in it, but descriptive. Only a fool would blame Biden for the war. You could say he stood up to the Russians and that would be a factual truth. And no one's blaming Trump for occupying Ukrainian territory, the factual truth is that he's willing to surrender it to appease Russia. Sucks up to Putin. Putin's bumboy. Jealous of Putin as he can just push whoever opposed him out the nearest window without having to pay lawyers. 2 Quote
Forum Admin Greg Posted February 20 Forum Admin Report Posted February 20 28 minutes ago, herbie said: Very descriptive title.Nothing but Total f*cking bullshit in it, but descriptive. Ha! I appreciate the effort! Quote Have any issues, problems using the forum? Post a message in the Support and Questions section of the forums.
User Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 1 hour ago, herbie said: Only a fool would blame Biden for the war. You could say he stood up to the Russians and that would be a factual truth. I blame Biden for standing around and doing little to prevent this war BEFORE it started. Imagine if we pumped billions of $$$ into Ukraine with military equipment BEFORE Russia invaded instead of after. We could have done far more to dissuade Putin's aggression. Quote
Nationalist Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 (edited) 13 minutes ago, User said: I blame Biden for standing around and doing little to prevent this war BEFORE it started. Imagine if we pumped billions of $$$ into Ukraine with military equipment BEFORE Russia invaded instead of after. We could have done far more to dissuade Putin's aggression. I blame the Democrats for Biden. I would suggest the USA and NATO should have done less. Edited February 20 by Nationalist Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
User Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 Just now, Nationalist said: I would suggest the USA and NATO should have done less. Of course... because you want Russia to win and cheer them on. 1 Quote
ExFlyer Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 18 minutes ago, User said: I blame Biden for standing around and doing little to prevent this war BEFORE it started. Imagine if we pumped billions of $$$ into Ukraine with military equipment BEFORE Russia invaded instead of after. We could have done far more to dissuade Putin's aggression. Ummmm, so you are saying Biden was in the know that Putin would bomb and invade?? Besides, Biden providing arms to Ukraine was self serving. The US had lots of old weapons and arms so, he gives them to Ukraine and his factories and constituents get to make new ones. Pure economic sense LOL Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
User Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 8 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: Ummmm, so you are saying Biden was in the know that Putin would bomb and invade?? Besides, Biden providing arms to Ukraine was self serving. The US had lots of old weapons and arms so, he gives them to Ukraine and his factories and constituents get to make new ones. Pure economic sense LOL The whole world was aware of what was going on. It was no secret that Russia was mobilizing its forces for months along the border, preparing for an invasion. Hell, Biden and other NATO allies were making it public that their intelligence services were saying Putin was going to invade. Quote
ExFlyer Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 9 minutes ago, User said: The whole world was aware of what was going on. It was no secret that Russia was mobilizing its forces for months along the border, preparing for an invasion. Hell, Biden and other NATO allies were making it public that their intelligence services were saying Putin was going to invade. As I said, the US has not had a war in a while and had lots of old stock laying around. It was a pure economic decision to support Ukraine. Oh and Ukraine was not in NATO or the European Union so, there would and could not be any intervention. Can't go in if they were not allied or aligned. Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
User Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 4 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: Oh and Ukraine was not in NATO or the European Union so, there would and could not be any intervention. Can't go in if they were not allied or aligned. Do you just make stuff up and not care if it is true or not? A nation doesn't have to be a member of NATO or the European Union to get support or intervention. Quote
Matthew Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 2 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: the US has not had a war in a while Lol what? 1 Quote
herbie Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 Money, money, money it cost us money, our precious money. Morality is contingent on the bottom line. As told by the first society in history to not try to save itself as it wasn't cost effective. Quote
User Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 4 minutes ago, herbie said: Money, money, money it cost us money, our precious money. Morality is contingent on the bottom line. As told by the first society in history to not try to save itself as it wasn't cost effective. You talking about Canada? Quote
I am Groot Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 1 hour ago, User said: I blame Biden for standing around and doing little to prevent this war BEFORE it started. Imagine if we pumped billions of $$$ into Ukraine with military equipment BEFORE Russia invaded instead of after. We could have done far more to dissuade Putin's aggression. We did. That was why when the Russians invaded, expecting a cakewalk, they got their asses kicked and forced back to the east and north. Quote
impartialobserver Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 Just because something starts or happens during your time in office.. does not mean that you caused it. 1 Quote
WestCanMan Posted February 21 Author Report Posted February 21 3 hours ago, herbie said: Very descriptive title.Nothing but Total f*cking bullshit in it, but descriptive. Only a fool would blame Biden for the war. You could say he stood up to the Russians and that would be a factual truth. What did Ukraine gain from this war, herbie? Do you think that Ukrainians are somehow better off now than they were before? If they could go back in time and not have the war start, do you think they'd opt for that? If they could go back in time and have the war end in 2023, do you think they'd opt for that? What do you think should have happened herbie? How would you wind this up? With an Afghanistan-style free-for-all? Quote If CNN gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. If you missed something on the Cultist Narrative Network, don't worry, the dolt horde here will make sure everyone hears it. "If it didn't come from CNN, it's heresy!" - leftist "intellectuals"
robosmith Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 13 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: What did Ukraine gain from this war, herbie? Do you think that Ukrainians are somehow better off now than they were before? If they could go back in time and not have the war start, do you think they'd opt for that? If they could go back in time and have the war end in 2023, do you think they'd opt for that? What do you think should have happened herbie? How would you wind this up? With an Afghanistan-style free-for-all? Putin INVADING was NOT Ukraine's choice, lDIOT. And no matter how many times you DEFEND Putin and blame ANYONE ELSE, IT WILL NOT CHANGE THAT FACT. 1 Quote
WestCanMan Posted February 21 Author Report Posted February 21 24 minutes ago, robosmith said: Putin INVADING was NOT Ukraine's choice, lDIOT. And no matter how many times you DEFEND Putin and blame ANYONE ELSE, IT WILL NOT CHANGE THAT FACT. What do you think Trump should have done? Tell me your great plan, robo. How was Biden's plan working out? Was it a 10/10? Quote If CNN gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. If you missed something on the Cultist Narrative Network, don't worry, the dolt horde here will make sure everyone hears it. "If it didn't come from CNN, it's heresy!" - leftist "intellectuals"
WestCanMan Posted February 21 Author Report Posted February 21 @robosmith Should Trump have fought another 4-year war of attrition? Should Trump put boots on the ground in Ukraine just to gain back some territory for the Ukrainians? What's your great plan, robo? Why is ending the war worse than everything Biden did? Quote If CNN gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. If you missed something on the Cultist Narrative Network, don't worry, the dolt horde here will make sure everyone hears it. "If it didn't come from CNN, it's heresy!" - leftist "intellectuals"
Hodad Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 3 hours ago, WestCanMan said: What did Ukraine gain from this war, herbie? Do you think that Ukrainians are somehow better off now than they were before? If they could go back in time and not have the war start, do you think they'd opt for that? If they could go back in time and have the war end in 2023, do you think they'd opt for that? What do you think should have happened herbie? How would you wind this up? With an Afghanistan-style free-for-all? What did Ukraine gain from defending itself from being annexed by Putin? Well, they still exist as a free people. If they could go back in time and somehow Putin didn't invade in sure they'd be all for it. And yes, Trump is trying to "end" the war in Ukraine exactly how he ended the war in Afghanistan: by simply abandoning the Democratic governments to be devoured by oppressive authoritarian regimes. Watching you struggle to understand why a free people would fight for their freedom is almost pitiable. Having values and principles--believing that some things are worth fighting for--is as foreign to you as a the concept of color to a blind person. 1 Quote
robosmith Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 3 hours ago, WestCanMan said: What do you think Trump should have done? Trump hasn't done anything yet, aside from cozying up to the murderous dictator Putin who is trying to STEAL UKRAINE. 3 hours ago, WestCanMan said: Tell me your great plan, robo. We, along with NATO need to make it clear to Putin he will not win. Trump needs to double down on commitment to Ukraine's independence. 3 hours ago, WestCanMan said: How was Biden's plan working out? Was it a 10/10? His plan has Russia on the ropes. So desperate Putin has to import 10,000 NK soldiers, and his Black Sea fleet is decimated. Quote
WestCanMan Posted February 21 Author Report Posted February 21 31 minutes ago, Hodad said: What did Ukraine gain from defending itself from being annexed by Putin? Well, they still exist as a free people. It's just hilarious to see you squirm like that. Either you're right, and Putin only attacked Ukraine because he's a bully and he knew that Biden was so weak that he would be able to gain territory Or you're wrong, and Putin attacked to keep NATO out of Ukraine, and Biden was too dumb to negotiate peace. In either scenario, Biden in the WH caused that war. Quote If they could go back in time and somehow Putin didn't invade in sure they'd be all for it. That would require Trump winning the 2020 election. Quote And yes, Trump is trying to "end" the war in Ukraine exactly how he ended the war in Afghanistan: by simply abandoning the Democratic governments to be devoured by oppressive authoritarian regimes. Stop crying about everything. America wanted out of that war, and Trump's not like Biden, so he ended that war. The country didn't fall apart until weak-ass Biden got into the WH. The Taliban were scared shitless of Trump. Quote Watching you struggle to understand why a free people would fight for their freedom is almost pitiable. Having values and principles--believing that some things are worth fighting for--is as foreign to you as a the concept of color to a blind person. Watching you struggle to find things to complain about is sickening. Even peace is bad if it's because of Trump 🤣 Obama's weakness and stupidity caused war. Trump brought peace. Biden's weakness and stupidity caused 2 wars. Trump brought peace to one, and got the hostages back from the other. Squirm away, Hodad. You're just dragging on a topic that's not good for your worthless, stupid, feckless "heroes". Quote If CNN gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. If you missed something on the Cultist Narrative Network, don't worry, the dolt horde here will make sure everyone hears it. "If it didn't come from CNN, it's heresy!" - leftist "intellectuals"
WestCanMan Posted February 21 Author Report Posted February 21 37 minutes ago, robosmith said: Trump hasn't done anything yet, aside from cozying up to the murderous dictator Putin who is trying to STEAL UKRAINE. So you think Trump should have just sent another $60B in weapons then. Is that it? Would another $60B do the trick? Just regain all that lost territory? If that's what you think he shoulda done, just say it. Say: "Trump was wrong to demand peace, he should have kept the war going, like Biden would have." Is that so hard? Quote We, along with NATO need to make it clear to Putin he will not win. We, as humans, need to understand that war is a last resort. Biden should have tried to do something, anything, to avoid that war, and failing that, he should have at least tried to get peace. Quote Trump needs to double down on commitment to Ukraine's independence. Russia isn't going to f around until America gets another weakling like Biden in the WH. Quote His plan has Russia on the ropes. So desperate Putin has to import 10,000 NK soldiers, and his Black Sea fleet is decimated. Ukraine is out of soldiers. The Ukrainian people have no more stomach for war. They are having more desertions this winter than at any other time in the war, and now they're like a horse that smells the barn because Trump said he would bring peace and that's all the people care about now. Ukraine can say that they won their independence, Russia can say that they gained territory, Russia can say that they staved off NATO in Ukraine, and all of the people who are still alive get to keep on living. As long as they all feel like they won something, who cares who's right about any of that? The f'ing war is over. Let them all crow. Yay for everyone. That war was so worth it 👎 1 Quote If CNN gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. If you missed something on the Cultist Narrative Network, don't worry, the dolt horde here will make sure everyone hears it. "If it didn't come from CNN, it's heresy!" - leftist "intellectuals"
Scott75 Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 11 hours ago, WestCanMan said: So tens of thousands of people died in the Ukraine war. Cities were destroyed. It ramped up to the point where missiles were being fired into Russia and Kiev, and North Korean soldiers joined the war. In that whole time, Biden never even talked about peace. The deaths apparently meant nothing to him. In that whole time, Biden's hundreds of billions of dollars couldn't stop Russia's progress across southern Ukraine. The war of attrition was being lost day by day. Biden absolutely had the power to end this war years ago, with tens of thousands less deaths and no territory lost Trump inherited a war with tens of thousands of deaths, tens of thousands of sq km or Ukrainian territory lost leftists are mad that Trump can't magically move Ukraine's borders back to where they were, but they're not mad at Biden. This is madness. WHAT DID UKRAINE GAIN FROM THIS WAR?????? WHY DID BIDEN LET IT HAPPEN??? WHY DIDN'T BIDEN END IT SOONER???? Amen. As to your questions: 1- Nothing but a lucrative gravy train for certain elites in Ukraine. 2- Biden was in on the gravy train. 3- To keep the gravy train going. A good article on these points was published on infobrics on February 3rd: Even with Western aid drying up, corruption continues to flourish in Ukraine | Infobrics It may not be perfect [I snipped a paragraph that didn't make sense to me], but I think it gets most of the story right. Quoting from it: ** The deep-rooted corruption in Ukraine began to surface after it became clear that the Kiev regime was losing the war. Although the West used a corrupt Ukraine to attack and weaken Russia, the Westerners themselves now look for an alibi for the defeat and to distance themselves from their proxy after ignoring the total corruption of the Kiev regime due to the ambitions of certain leaders to inflict as much damage as possible on Russia. Cracks have begun to appear in the relations between the allies due to corruption, and Ukraine accuses its Western partners of using corruption accusations as an excuse not to admit the country to NATO and the EU. Ukraine is the most corrupt country in Europe today, but the West continued to support Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky uncritically until Donald Trump raised the issue due to then-US President Joe Biden sending American taxpayers’ money to Ukraine. It was then discovered that the Kiev regime was giving part of that money to Hunter Biden, the son of Joe Biden. Hunter Biden, in turn, sent that money to his father, who, at the end of his term, issued a decree on Hunter’s preventive pardon. Trump is now conducting a “special financial operation,” which will include both the Pentagon and Ukraine, to determine where the money went. For this reason, Trump has suspended the US aid program to Ukraine for 90 days, suggesting that there is evidence of financial mismanagement and theft of US taxpayer money. Biden’s last decrees also indicate corruption related to Ukraine. Besides Hunter, Joe Biden issued preventive pardons for his brothers and their wives, as well as for his sister and her husband. It was not clear why and for what reason. However, there was no information about the existence of any criminal offenses and so on. In Kiev, the main culprit behind these corruption schemes is Zelensky, who officially has a monthly salary of 28,000 hryvnias, about $664. Undoubtedly, he has other income because he bought a house for his parents and in-laws, a yacht, and more. According to media reports, Zelensky purchased a villa in Italy and acquired an estate in Britain—the former residence of King Charles and Princess Diana—while Zelensky’s wife has an apartment in London. In addition, the couple owns real estate in Cyprus and Miami. This, according to some sources, is not a complete list. An Egyptian journalist who wrote about the purchase of the Italian villa in the name of Zelensky’s mother-in-law, worth almost $5 million, was found dead under unclear circumstances. As for the castle in the UK, these allegations are made by Ukrainian sources and still need to be verified. However, there is nothing secret that does not become public, and the Trump administration is certainly monitoring the movement of money. Friends, godfathers, and relatives of Ukrainian officials are also getting rich quickly because property is being purchased in their names. Corruption in Ukraine is flourishing at all levels, and Ukrainian officials are issuing directives to journalists not to write about it until the war is over because it is bad for the country, as it may be left without Western aid. Sooner or later, everything will come to light. The Trump administration will likely have all the information and initiate criminal proceedings by now. It is no coincidence that Zelensky is now saying that Ukraine does not have the strength to capture the lost territories. This statement seems to indicate a radical change in Kiev’s position and a renunciation of unrealistic goals to “return to the 1991 borders.” The reason for this is that Western aid is drying up. [snip] Zelensky was a puppet managed by the West and was under the control of British intelligence. This is evidenced by the fact that in the spring of 2022, Zelensky annulled the Istanbul Peace Accords on the directive of then-British Prime Minister Boris Johnson, even though he had a chance to stop the war that would have prevented Ukraine from losing more territory and preserved the lives of hundreds of thousands of people. However, he instead decided to continue to fight on the promise that billions of dollars would flow endlessly, a prospect that Zelensky could not resist as an opportunity to further enrich himself and those closest to him. ** 1 Quote
Scott75 Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 2 hours ago, WestCanMan said: 3 hours ago, robosmith said: [Biden's] plan has Russia on the ropes. So desperate Putin has to import 10,000 NK soldiers, and his Black Sea fleet is decimated. Ukraine is out of soldiers. The Ukrainian people have no more stomach for war. They are having more desertions this winter than at any other time in the war, and now they're like a horse that smells the barn because Trump said he would bring peace and that's all the people care about now. Ukraine can say that they won their independence, Russia can say that they gained territory, Russia can say that they staved off NATO in Ukraine, and all of the people who are still alive get to keep on living. As long as they all feel like they won something, who cares who's right about any of that? The f'ing war is over. Let them all crow. Yay for everyone. That war was so worth it 👎 As I think we can agree, this war was an absolute tragedy for everyone doing the actual fighting from start to finish. As to the powers behind those fighting the war, I think an agreement may finally be in reach soon. Unlike Biden et al, who were deeply entrenched in the Ukraine war gravy train, Trump has no such ties, as far as I know. As an indication of this, I just read that as soon as Trump came into office, he stopped the United States' support of bombing Russia: ** since January 20, the new president’s inauguration, there have been no attacks on Russia with American HIMARS and ATACMS missiles. The assumption is that Kiev received such an order from Trump, who replaced and fired people who dealt with Ukrainian issues in the State Department and the Pentagon. ** Source: Even with Western aid drying up, corruption continues to flourish in Ukraine | infobrics.org As a result of Trump's lack of ties to Ukraine's gravy train, he has no reason to continue funding it. Combined with the fact that Ukraine's soldier count is severely depleted, I think any reasonble person must conclude that this war can't last much longer. 1 Quote
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