Army Guy Posted February 12 Report Posted February 12 He introduces his idea for a carbon tax replacement, he is going to tax manufactures or large polluters as he calls them...then use those tax dollars to provide incentives to citizens to buy low emitting appliances, installation of your home, and some other items, they all seem pretty small incentives, nothing like replacing heating oil furnaces, or heat pumps. When the interviewer ask him you don't think these big polluters will just add these taxes to the price of the things they produce.... His answer was NO these big polluters don't make items the average consumer buys...like steel , how much steel did you but lately...i thought this was odd, a lot of products we buy have steel in them, from cars to toasters, to homes, and if they are being charged more for steel then yes it is going to trickle down to us the consumer... He goes on to say these new taxes on polluters are going to make our economy more competitive...I like to here how, i mean i has not made Canada more competitive during Justins reign, it has the opposite effect. And now with Trump is charge, he is slashing his country's red tape dealing with all environmental efforts, US companies will no longer have to pay or invest in these policies, unless we follow suit how are we going to become more competitive ? He continues to repeat the same liberal line that families are going to be worse off without the carbon rebate....and yet the it has already been proven overall 60 % of all consumers are worse off with the carbon tax, the interviewer then asks so why would you cancel the carbon tax if people are better off....he goes on that in a few weeks he will be announcing more programs that will put more money in tax payers pockets "So more spending" after he earlier mentioned his party will be fiscal prudent reduce spending...I think we have heard that before from liberals...The question we need to ask is this the guy we want running the country, and can we afford another liberal government... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
I am Groot Posted February 12 Report Posted February 12 The other day, some guy identified as a professor of International Relations suggested we refuse Trump's appointed ambassador - whoever that is, to teach him a lesson, I guess. This is an example of that perplexing situation, where allegedly smart, educated 'experts' give really, astoundingly dumb advice. I'm not a professor of international relations but I know damned well that if we were to refuse his ambassador he would take it personally, probably kick ours out, and then take revenge in some way that would not harm an international relations professor but certainly would be harmful to Canada. Mark Carney is another of those 'experts' giving astoundingly dumb advice. Liz Truss, his last government boss, if you will, said his policies had been a disaster in the UK, and little wonder. Carney is a guy who has been captured by a dream, by an ideology that has become almost a religion to some. And in religious matters, you have faith and pay little attention to logic. His suggestion that big emitters would not pass the cost down is baffling from an economist. Clearly, they would. And not just steel makers, either. Everyone from concrete makers to car makers to oil producers to every kind of factory in the country would pass those costs on down to us. Those who can't would flee Canada for places like China, Mexico, and even the US, where they face lower taxes and cheaper energy (often coal). And Carney's solution to that? Why, he'll put tariffs on any country that doesn't have a proper emissions reduction program. Got that? He'll start a tariff war with the US, Mexico, China, India, and much of the rest of the world while making our costs higher and, not incidentally, doing his best to destroy our oil and gas industries. This leads to the question: Does Mark Carney not actually understand economics? Or business? Is he so engaged in his pointless, futile effort at tilting at windmills, at fighting a hopeless, pointless fight that can't accomplish anything that he's willing to heavily damage this country just to put his chin up and show everyone what a noble, virtuous guy he is? 1 Quote
Dougie93 Posted February 12 Report Posted February 12 5 minutes ago, I am Groot said: The other day, some guy identified as a professor of International Relations suggested we refuse Trump's appointed ambassador - whoever that is, to teach him a lesson, I guess. This is an example of that perplexing situation, where allegedly smart, educated 'experts' give really, astoundingly dumb advice. I'm not a professor of international relations but I know damned well that if we were to refuse his ambassador he would take it personally, probably kick ours out, and then take revenge in some way that would not harm an international relations professor but certainly would be harmful to Canada. Mark Carney is another of those 'experts' giving astoundingly dumb advice. Liz Truss, his last government boss, if you will, said his policies had been a disaster in the UK, and little wonder. Carney is a guy who has been captured by a dream, by an ideology that has become almost a religion to some. And in religious matters, you have faith and pay little attention to logic. His suggestion that big emitters would not pass the cost down is baffling from an economist. Clearly, they would. And not just steel makers, either. Everyone from concrete makers to car makers to oil producers to every kind of factory in the country would pass those costs on down to us. Those who can't would flee Canada for places like China, Mexico, and even the US, where they face lower taxes and cheaper energy (often coal). And Carney's solution to that? Why, he'll put tariffs on any country that doesn't have a proper emissions reduction program. Got that? He'll start a tariff war with the US, Mexico, China, India, and much of the rest of the world while making our costs higher and, not incidentally, doing his best to destroy our oil and gas industries. This leads to the question: Does Mark Carney not actually understand economics? Or business? Is he so engaged in his pointless, futile effort at tilting at windmills, at fighting a hopeless, pointless fight that can't accomplish anything that he's willing to heavily damage this country just to put his chin up and show everyone what a noble, virtuous guy he is? once America initiates a tariff war, that becomes a global tariff war on the spot Neoliberal Globalism is collapsing from the centre outwards all governments will be using tariffs as a revenue generator to fund their war efforts therein Canada has to play those cards as they are dealt Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted February 12 Report Posted February 12 I suspect that carbon taxes in some form aren’t going away forever. In the coming decades, the pressure to reduce emissions will only get stronger as the consequences come home to roost. Quote
I am Groot Posted February 12 Report Posted February 12 2 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said: I suspect that carbon taxes in some form aren’t going away forever. In the coming decades, the pressure to reduce emissions will only get stronger as the consequences come home to roost. Right now 76% of carbon emissions come from countries with no emission reduction targets or plans. And Bjorn Lomborg has demonstrated fairly obviously with basic math that the costs we are incurring today in a desperate and futile quest to lower our emissions (in the West ONLY) are actually more than the cost of doing nothing will be 75 years from now. The only way to reduce emissions is to do so intelligently through improvements in technology, not these pointless carbon taxes that just make energy more expensive in the West while Asia and the rest of the developing world enthusiastically build coal plants to power the industries we drive offshore. 1 Quote
Moonbox Posted February 12 Report Posted February 12 (edited) 2 hours ago, I am Groot said: Liz Truss, his last government boss, if you will, said his policies had been a disaster in the UK, and little wonder. Liz Truss the incompetent MAGA fangirl? The one who resigned in disgrace after 45 days as the UK PM, after tabling its most disastrous budget in recent memory? We're going to that Liz Truss for a review of Carney? 😑 That reads in his favor. Edited February 12 by Moonbox Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
eyeball Posted February 12 Report Posted February 12 3 hours ago, Army Guy said: The question we need to ask is this the guy we want running the country, and can we afford another liberal government... In the context of carbon pricing? That depends on the cost of Poilievre's carbon tax replacement plan. I note Poilievre still hasn't come out to announce he doesn't have or need a plan because he doesn't give a shit. Do you think he has one that's better or will be less expensive to Canadians than the existing carbon tax? Personally I don't think PP is being honest about his concern for AGW but for what it's worth, I also said weeks ago that it would be Carney's first official lie if he said there was something less expensive and more effective than the carbon tax. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
SpankyMcFarland Posted February 12 Report Posted February 12 3 hours ago, I am Groot said: Right now 76% of carbon emissions come from countries with no emission reduction targets or plans. And Bjorn Lomborg has demonstrated fairly obviously with basic math that the costs we are incurring today in a desperate and futile quest to lower our emissions (in the West ONLY) are actually more than the cost of doing nothing will be 75 years from now. The only way to reduce emissions is to do so intelligently through improvements in technology, not these pointless carbon taxes that just make energy more expensive in the West while Asia and the rest of the developing world enthusiastically build coal plants to power the industries we drive offshore. Our per capita emissions will continue to attract global attention and the West collectively has already made a significant contribution to greenhouse gases that will persist. We should clean up our own house before telling others to do the same. Quote
eyeball Posted February 12 Report Posted February 12 4 hours ago, I am Groot said: This leads to the question: Does Mark Carney not actually understand economics? Or business? Is he so engaged in his pointless, futile effort at tilting at windmills, at fighting a hopeless, pointless fight that can't accomplish anything that he's willing to heavily damage this country just to put his chin up and show everyone what a noble, virtuous guy he is? Carney seems happy enough to abandon the struggle while he's so engaged in getting elected. He knows his chances of overcoming the gas-lit confusion that surrounds the carbon tax are slim to none and axing the tax himself handily undercuts PP's axe the tax shtick. There'll be lots of time for virtue signalling later. So how do you feel about PP signalling his concern for AGW by doing the same thing Carney is and going after big emitters? Maybe PP and his supporters know in their hearts that once elected there'll be lots of time for axing that later. For the moment though they seem as happy as Carney is to virtue signal their way thru an election. Virtue signalling is just another type of grease everyone uses to keep things moving. And it's all as perfectly legal. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted February 12 Report Posted February 12 1 hour ago, SpankyMcFarland said: Our per capita emissions will continue to attract global attention and the West collectively has already made a significant contribution to greenhouse gases that will persist. We should clean up our own house before telling others to do the same. I think the message we really don't give a damn would be better received by many - some would even say The world needs more of Canada! Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
I am Groot Posted February 12 Report Posted February 12 2 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said: Our per capita emissions will continue to attract global attention and the West collectively has already made a significant contribution to greenhouse gases that will persist. We should clean up our own house before telling others to do the same. Our emissions will attract global attention from whom? 66% of emissions come from the developing world, where there are no carbon taxes. Another 11% come from the US where there are no carbon taxes. Of the two hundred members of the UN perhaps two dozen at most and probably not that many, are actively putting their money into reducing CO2 emissions, and none are likely to meet their targets. And even if they did it wouldn't make a bit of difference. 2 hours ago, eyeball said: In the context of carbon pricing? That depends on the cost of Poilievre's carbon tax replacement plan. I note Poilievre still hasn't come out to announce he doesn't have or need a plan because he doesn't give a shit. Do you think he has one that's better or will be less expensive to Canadians than the existing carbon tax? Yes. It could hardly be worse. The existing one costs billions and accomplishes nothing whatsoever. All his new plan has to do is either cost less or accomplish... something. Anything. And it'll be better. Quote
I am Groot Posted February 12 Report Posted February 12 41 minutes ago, eyeball said: I think the message we really don't give a damn would be better received by many - some would even say The world needs more of Canada! I give a damn. Tell me what you plan to do that will make a difference that won't bankrupt us. So far, no politician has come up with such a plan. I'm not willing to see us spending two trillion dollars just to virtue signal. Quote
eyeball Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 3 minutes ago, I am Groot said: Yes. It could hardly be worse. The existing one costs billions and accomplishes nothing whatsoever. All his new plan has to do is either cost less or accomplish... something. Anything. And it'll be better. Except it won't be. Go ask Scott Moe, apparently he looked into it and came to realize the carbon tax we have is the best option. This is also in line with the conclusion of the vast majority of economists. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 2 minutes ago, I am Groot said: I give a damn. Tell me what you plan to do that will make a difference that won't bankrupt us. So far, no politician has come up with such a plan. I'm not willing to see us spending two trillion dollars just to virtue signal. Me? I think it's way too late to make a difference - we're going off a cliff no matter what. I'm more fascinated with how governments and politicians manage to both apply the brakes while also stepping on the gas. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
herbie Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 7 hours ago, Army Guy said: you don't think these big polluters will just add these taxes to the price of the things they produce Did you think they would just say f^ck any Green policies, drill, drill, drill? Just vote Tory if you don't give a flying f*ck about doing anything at all and acting like it's 1950. What people will let zoom over their heads is when the company's cost goes up a nickel and they raise prices a dollar. Just like gas prices go up a dime the week before a 3c tax increase and another dime as soon as people get over it. Quote
Army Guy Posted February 13 Author Report Posted February 13 19 minutes ago, herbie said: Did you think they would just say f^ck any Green policies, drill, drill, drill? Just vote Tory if you don't give a flying f*ck about doing anything at all and acting like it's 1950. What people will let zoom over their heads is when the company's cost goes up a nickel and they raise prices a dollar. Just like gas prices go up a dime the week before a 3c tax increase and another dime as soon as people get over it. No they are not going to say drill baby drill, but they could be honest with Canadians and tell the truth when asked by a reporter....Yes big companies are going to pass that tax down to their customers....it is how our economy works...it is no better than the carbon tax we have right now, Like the liberals have done anything for the climate crises... Then there is the lie about the carbon tax , saying most Canadians get back more than they paid....when it has already been proven that 60 % of Canadians overall will PAY more than the rebate is worth... And playing off this tax like it won't effects us, and then saying how much steel do you buy lately...a large portion of the products Canadians buy have what....a thing call steel your a hard core liberal and have gone nose blind to all their sh!t they lie about....And to be frank i'm tired of all their lies Carney is cut from the same cloth....it's time for an election.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
herbie Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 They could come right out and be totally honest and say We'll charge the actual emitters and they'll mark it up and gouge you instead. Be a Good American, loathe taxation and adore getting ripped off by billionaires. Quote
Barquentine Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 8 hours ago, I am Groot said: Asia and the rest of the developing world enthusiastically build coal plants You should look at what China is doing in the Renewable sector. Quote
Army Guy Posted February 13 Author Report Posted February 13 15 minutes ago, herbie said: They could come right out and be totally honest and say We'll charge the actual emitters and they'll mark it up and gouge you instead. Be a Good American, loathe taxation and adore getting ripped off by billionaires. Well you know thats exactly what they'll do, the liberals know that as well, so why lie on national tv and say the won't....i know you like it when they lie and deceive the ROC...but the rest of us would like to know when we are getting bent over by another liberal party....What is it with you guys and honesty...No wonder this country is a mess.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
eyeball Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 2 hours ago, Army Guy said: Yes big companies are going to pass that tax down to their customers....it is how our economy works...it is no better than the carbon tax we have right now, Except instead of rebates to people who could really use a break, oil companies will get subsidies. Isn't that more to you liking? Oh and emissions will be up so win win win. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
CdnFox Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 14 hours ago, Army Guy said: He introduces his idea for a carbon tax replacement, he is going to tax manufactures or large polluters as he calls them...then use those tax dollars to provide incentives to citizens to buy low emitting appliances, installation of your home, and some other items, they all seem pretty small incentives, nothing like replacing heating oil furnaces, or heat pumps. When the interviewer ask him you don't think these big polluters will just add these taxes to the price of the things they produce.... His answer was NO these big polluters don't make items the average consumer buys...like steel , how much steel did you but lately...i thought this was odd, a lot of products we buy have steel in them, from cars to toasters, to homes, and if they are being charged more for steel then yes it is going to trickle down to us the consumer... He goes on to say these new taxes on polluters are going to make our economy more competitive...I like to here how, i mean i has not made Canada more competitive during Justins reign, it has the opposite effect. And now with Trump is charge, he is slashing his country's red tape dealing with all environmental efforts, US companies will no longer have to pay or invest in these policies, unless we follow suit how are we going to become more competitive ? He continues to repeat the same liberal line that families are going to be worse off without the carbon rebate....and yet the it has already been proven overall 60 % of all consumers are worse off with the carbon tax, the interviewer then asks so why would you cancel the carbon tax if people are better off....he goes on that in a few weeks he will be announcing more programs that will put more money in tax payers pockets "So more spending" after he earlier mentioned his party will be fiscal prudent reduce spending...I think we have heard that before from liberals...The question we need to ask is this the guy we want running the country, and can we afford another liberal government... For me there was nothing new there. It's critical to remember this guy has no loyalty to our country. He can leave it a flaming dumpster fire and that's fine his family and himself will live elsewhere with the hundreds of millions he'll pocket from what he does and his connections as pm. That's all he cares about 1 Quote
I am Groot Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 (edited) 14 hours ago, Barquentine said: You should look at what China is doing in the Renewable sector. I'll look when they stop building coal plants and their CO2 emissions stop rising. Edited February 13 by I am Groot Quote
I am Groot Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 17 hours ago, eyeball said: Except it won't be. Go ask Scott Moe, apparently he looked into it and came to realize the carbon tax we have is the best option. This is also in line with the conclusion of the vast majority of economists. The best option for what? For getting to an arbitrary reduction point that will make absolutely no difference? Have you seen the report by the Royal bank that says it will cost Canada $2,000,000,000,000 (two trillion) dollars to reach net zero over the next thirty years? What do you imagine that's going to do to our economy and standard of living? To accomplish... nothing of substance!? Quote
Barquentine Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 34 minutes ago, I am Groot said: I'll look when they stop building coal plants and their CO2 emissions stop rising. Yes they still use a lot of coal and are probably the worst Co2 emitters. But they're pouring a lot into renewables to change that. On the other hand: AP News: Jan 24, 2025 —" Trump this week suggested coal can help meet surging electricity demand from manufacturing and the massive data centers needed for artificial intelligence." Trump wants to go backward. Quote
eyeball Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 2 hours ago, I am Groot said: The best option for what? For getting to an arbitrary reduction point that will make absolutely no difference? Addressing climate change and living up our international committments. 2 hours ago, I am Groot said: Have you seen the report by the Royal bank that says it will cost Canada $2,000,000,000,000 (two trillion) dollars to reach net zero over the next thirty years? What do you imagine that's going to do to our economy and standard of living? To accomplish... nothing of substance!? Nothing compared to what climate change will do to our economy. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
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