Trump Plan for Takeover of Canada?

[eyeball]

59 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Anyway, treaties were signed and people are free to bring their land claims to court.  If you want more claims and reparations for the deeds of people living centuries ago, that’s your choice.  I would estimate that if too much of that happens, the younger generation paying the price for your foolishness will happily turn the country over to America to release Canadians from these millstones.

To save us from the natives and put them back in their place?

Or from our justice system and presumably scrap it?

[NAME REMOVED]

Using Tariffs to Try to Turn Canada into American State Backfired in the Past

President Donald Trump has spent much of the interregnum, and now his first weeks back in office, threatening American allies in one way or another, with Canada among the countries taking the most fire. His weapon of choice is the tariff, which the president calls the “most beautiful word.” On Saturday, he slapped a punitive 25% tariff on Canadian goods to address a perceived trade imbalance. 

Following a flurry of last-minute negotiations, however, Trump has placed a 30-day pause on the tariffs. However, Trump's tariff threat remains clear and present, especially given that Trump has promised to deploy “economic force” if Canada proves unwilling to agree to annexation and becoming the U.S.’s 51st state.

While Trump’s protectionism and imperial designs are a sharp break with the recent past, they aren’t new. In fact, they’re part of a very old GOP playbook that dates to a period Trump regularly lionizes: the late 19th century. He sees it as a golden era in American history. Yet, the history of the 1890s actually exposes the dangers of the U.S. trying to force Canada into American hands.

Like Trump, Republicans in the late 19th century wanted to annex Canada—which was then still a British colony. The push to make Canada part of the U.S. reached a fever pitch following passage of the highly protectionist McKinley Tariff in 1890, which raised average tariff rates to around 50%. To pressure Canada into joining the U.S., the McKinley tariff explicitly declined to make an exception for Canadian products. Republicans hoped that Canadians, who were becoming ever more reliant on the U.S. market, would be eager to become the 45th state to avoid the punishing tariffs.

Secretary of State James G. Blaine saw annexation as a way to eliminate continued and contentious competition over fish and timber. Blaine, who co-authored the McKinley Tariff, publicly stated that he hoped for “a grander and nobler brotherly love, that may unite in the end” the United States and Canada “in one perfect union.” Blaine declared himself “teetotally opposed to giving the Canadians the sentimental satisfaction of waving the British Flag. . . and enjoying the actual remuneration of American markets.” Privately, he admitted to President Benjamin Harrison that by denying reciprocity, Canada would “ultimately, I believe, seek admission to the Union.”

Officials and free trade advocates in both Britain and Canada also understood the implications of the McKinley Tariff. Members of the Cobden Club, a prominent and influential London-based free-trade organization, called it an “outrage on civilization”—one that promised “to lead to the [American] annexation of Canada.” British Liberal Lyon Playfair warned that the law looked like “a covert attack on Canada.” If the tariff act’s objective “really be (as the Canadian Prime Minister, Sir John Macdonald, thinks) to force the United States lion and the Canadian lamb to lie down together, this can only be accomplished by the lamb being inside the lion,” he warned.

Yet, though both sides were convinced that the tariff would drive Canada into the arms of the U.S., it actually had the opposite effect. Nationalistic Canadians argued that the tariff was “a heavy blow struck alike at our home industries and at the prosperity and independence of the Dominion of Canada — an unprovoked aggression, an attempt at conquest by fiscal war.”

Rather than compelling Canadians to seek annexation, the tariff stirred “love for Queen, flag, and country,” according to George T. Denison, president of the British Empire League in Canada. The majority of Canadians saw the McKinley tariff as part of “a conspiracy” to “betray this country into annexation.” They were having none of it. Their cultural and political ties with the British Empire, as well as their anger over the attempted coercion, proved stronger.
[/b]
Canada’s Conservative Prime Minister John Macdonald wanted to react forcefully to send a message to the U.S. He proposed retaliating with high tariffs on American goods, as well as increased trade with Britain. [b]He also recognized a political weapon when he was handed one. He adroitly turned the 1891 Canadian elections into a broader referendum concerning Canadian-American relations. He portrayed the Liberal opposition as being in bed with the Republican annexationists. According to him, they were involved in “a deliberate conspiracy, by force, by fraud, or by both, to force Canada into the American union.”

After playing “the ‘Loyalty’ cry for all it was worth,” Macdonald scored a narrow victory over those favoring friendlier and more open relations with the U.S. The U.S.’s loss was Britain’s gain. Within two years of the McKinley Tariff’s passage, Canadian agricultural exports to Britain jumped from $3.5 million to $15 million, and produce and animal exports grew from $16 million to $24 million. Beginning in 1897, Canadians began granting preferential market access to British imports. And U.S. manufacturers continued to move production to Canada to bypass its tariff walls.
 

Canadian Minister of Trade and Commerce Mackenzie Bowell happily informed his colleagues in the Canadian Senate that “the McKinley Bill, instead of destroying the trade of this country, has only diverted it from the United States to England." He continued, "Our neighbors are cutting off their own noses to spite us.”
 

This episode ought to serve as a warning for Trump. Far from enabling the U.S. to annex Canada, the McKinley Tariff that Trump so admires drove the U.S.’s neighbor to the North into the arms of its main economic rival, the British. Once again, an American president is on the brink of imposing tariffs against Canada and pushing for annexation. 
 

The two issues will undoubtedly be central in the 2025 Canadian elections. Trump’s threats could easily backfire as the McKinley Tariff did—leading to the election of Canadian politicians who promise to stand up to him, respond tit-for-tat to any tariffs he enacts, and seek other trade partners instead. The result would be U.S. consumers paying the price at checkout lines. U.S. manufacturers might also decide to relocate to Canada. And the tariff spat could spark further conflicts with Canada down the road.

In other words, “Tariff Man” Trump would once again be cutting off his country’s nose to spite Canada.

source; https://time.com/7212675/tariffs-canada-american-state-backfired/

-----

History repeats itself.  This is the best example, in respect for standing up to America,and fighting back.  Appeasement did not work in 1890, and it will not work now, with our economies far more intertwined.

Edited February 10 by DUI_Offender

[NAME REMOVED]

13 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Well i guess you and the military have much different opinions, I have been recognized on more than one occasion for my service, even got a medal with some bars on it, for good conduct, and the Queens jubilee medal for my contributions .I even have piece of paper signed by your hero Justin Trudeau thanking me for my service, not much a big deal everyone that retires gets one if you had a good service record.... So ya i got no problems getting phone calls or invites to regimental functions. But thanks for your concern....And thanks for your support...our nation thanks you as well if not just for the chirping you give out...maybe one day it will be more than just words....

After all is said and done, and the Canadian public see you for who you are- a Quisling, I will personally volunteer to walk up to you in any given town square, and rip off whatever military badges you may have attached to your uniform, while others pelt you with eggs, or worse. Canadians don't take too kindly to collaborators. 

At the end of the day, nobody will remember you for whatever you did in relative safety, during your tenure . The public will rightfully brand you as a coward, for siding with the enemy, and your children and Grandchildren will live in shame.

 

 

Edited February 10 by DUI_Offender

[PIK]

11 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

it's not all about going for the cheapest option

when global military powers are coming for your territory

SSK's don't project power, and they are of no use whatsoever in the arctic

so not actually more bang for the buck at all

We don't need to bust thru ice or go underneath.l, we just need to close the routes going under. And so much quieter.

Edited February 10 by PIK

[Dougie93]

14 minutes ago, PIK said:

We don't need to bust thru ice or go underneath.l, we just need to close the routes going under. And so much quieter.

it's not about a shooting war in the Northwest Passage

an SSN for projecting power against the Chinese & Russians, worldwide

the threat to Canada, is that Canada is not taken seriously

in terms of quieter, the SSK has to run its diesel generators every two to three days at periscope depth

[PIK]

12 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

it's not about a shooting war in the Northwest Passage

an SSN for projecting power against the Chinese & Russians, worldwide

the threat to Canada, is that Canada is not taken seriously

in terms of quieter, the SSK has to run its diesel generators every two to three days at periscope depth

They now have fuel systems that can go longer. The record is 14 days.

[Zeitgeist]

15 hours ago, eyeball said:

To save us from the natives and put them back in their place?

Or from our justice system and presumably scrap it?

You’re regurgitating radical left nonsense that exemplifies why we’re in this mess with the U.S.   Canada is in no position to pay off the possible descendants of people who were possibly wronged by the excesses of colonial settlement 400 years ago when the government can’t pay its bills or defend the country.  Moreover, we’ve seen more “settler colonial” immigration under the current government than at any time in our history, but somehow that’s good for Indigenous?

French Canada and Chinese Canadians have moved on from their grievances.  The Loyalists gave up on retrieving stranded possessions in the U.S.   The Irish aren’t demanding reparations for not having voting or property ownership rights hundreds of years ago or for suffering bias up until about 40 years ago from Orange Protestant Canada.  The grievance industry has clearly worked on people like you and our federal government, which has essentially enshrined a hemorrhaging of tax dollars to designated groups.  Again though, this is all rearranging deck chairs on the federal government Titanic.

Worry about microaggressions and your revisionist histories and see how far it gets you and your family.  See how much good it does to support Canadian independence.  Far as I’m concerned, if you ninnies are running the show in Canada, I’d far rather see the country become 51st state to put an end to your Marxist dreams for good.  

Edited February 10 by Zeitgeist

[Army Guy]

17 hours ago, PIK said:

We don't need nukes subs. Top line diesel/electric subs. Get more for our buck,and cheaper to operate.

Cheaper yes, but they would not be able to be used all year round as they don't have enough endurance under the ice...perhaps when new techs are found...other drawbacks are speed, and size is another factor when talking about how many weapons can be carried, and the ability of smashing through the arctic ice...

That being said diesel/ AOP/ electric subs are the hardest to track, they are much quieter, cheaper to maintain, easier to repair.

[Dougie93]

3 hours ago, PIK said:

They now have fuel systems that can go longer. The record is 14 days.

the SSK lacks the combination pf speed, endurance & payload, while also not being able to operate under ice

the SSN can be on the scene in days, when it would take an SSK weeks to get there

the SSN can remain on station for months, while an SSK has to refuel every few weeks

the SSN can carry more weapons, particularly missiles for land attack

the SSN is a strategic deterrent, a global power projection platform

again, the threat to Canada is strategic ; Canada is not viewed as being serious player at the geopolitical level

yet Canada is a prize to be taken by the great powers, Canada's resources are coveted

with both America & China threatening Canadian sovereignty

you're not going to alter that paradigm by playing small ball in the little leagues

if Canada is going to assert sovereignty in the face of Great Powers,

Canada would have to play in the big leagues

thus why the British & French operate nuclear submarines & thermonuclear weapons

[Dougie93]

6 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

That being said diesel/ AOP/ electric subs are the hardest to track, they are much quieter,

not much quieter than American & British SSN's

and the latest Variable Depth Towed Array Low Frequency Active sonars negate the SSK advantage

furthermore, if an SSN needs to be super stealthy, they can use underwater drones  now

[Army Guy]

9 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

After all is said and done, and the Canadian public see you for who you are- a Quisling, I will personally volunteer to walk up to you in any given town square, and rip off whatever military badges you may have attached to your uniform, while others pelt you with eggs, or worse. Canadians don't take too kindly to collaborators. 

At the end of the day, nobody will remember you for whatever you did in relative safety, during your tenure . The public will rightfully brand you as a coward, for siding with the enemy, and your children and Grandchildren will live in shame.

 

 

Look at you talking all tough, behind a keyboard no less...The army has spent millions of dollars teaching me all i need to know about surviving high intensity warfare, on top of that i have spent years learning many different self defense methods, so i doubt very much you'd even get close enough to my uniform or let alone to touching my person before i knocked you the f*ck out...you and all your friends...

Ya afghanistan was one huge party, beer and hookers for everyone....Royal Regiment lost 32 of its members , while Canadia lost 158 Canadians most of them in combat, well over 400 have commited suicide after coming home....Every day we were outside the wire which was most of our tour, and then once inside the wire occasionally we were attacked by mortars and rockets, gunfire.... ...So ya relative safety by your terms......and during all that time i never once ran into a guy like you, all mouth and not balls...

I'm not to worried how the public or you perceive me or my career..those that know me , know exactly what i did for this nation and those people are what counts....your just another fart in the wind....smells like sh!t, but quickly passes...

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

Cheaper yes, but they would not be able to be used all year round as they don't have enough endurance under the ice...perhaps when new techs are found...other drawbacks are speed, and size is another factor when talking about how many weapons can be carried, and the ability of smashing through the arctic ice...

again tho, just to reiterate ; AIP SSK's from South Korea or wherever ; are more than a decade away

whereas the BAE Systems production line at Barrow-in-Furness is fully up and running

delivering an SSN every 24 months

with the last Royal Navy SSN off the line being delivered this year

so rather than waiting until 2035 to receive the first SSK, with 4 SSK's by 2040

the UK could deliver the first SSN in 2027, four SSN's by 2033

furthermore RCN personnel are easily integrated with the RN for training

with an existing RN logistics infrastructure and supply chain

in essence the RCN would be joining the RN SSN program; turnkey solution

which is the only way the RCN could integrate new submarines in double quick time

maybe Canada is going to buy some SSK which hasn't even been designed yet ?

someday, "in the late 2030's", from a vendor which Canada has not even chosen yet ?

that is not going to convince anybody that Canada is serious, that's same old-same old

whereas  joining the UK SSN program right now, not only gets Canada to 2% on the spot

it sends the message; Canada is mobilizing for war, against any and all comers

furthermore, Canada is not going to buy American ; UK-CAN Astute class SSN's

SSN-880 HMCS Asinniboine

SSN-881 HMCS Athabaskan

SSN-882 HMCS Annapolis

SSN-883 HMCS Algonquin

Edited February 10 by Dougie93

[PIK]

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

the SSK lacks the combination pf speed, endurance & payload, while also not being able to operate under ice

the SSN can be on the scene in days, when it would take an SSK weeks to get there

the SSN can remain on station for months, while an SSK has to refuel every few weeks

the SSN can carry more weapons, particularly missiles for land attack

the SSN is a strategic deterrent, a global power projection platform

again, the threat to Canada is strategic ; Canada is not viewed as being serious player at the geopolitical level

yet Canada is a prize to be taken by the great powers, Canada's resources are coveted

with both America & China threatening Canadian sovereignty

you're not going to alter that paradigm by playing small ball in the little leagues

if Canada is going to assert sovereignty in the face of Great Powers,

Canada would have to play in the big leagues

thus why the British & French operate nuclear submarines & thermonuclear weapons

That is why PP in is the arctic today announcing a arctic base,that will be one of his 1st deals he does. Yes, having to return to BC or the east coast, would not be a smart idea. 

[Dougie93]

4 minutes ago, PIK said:

That is why PP in is the arctic today announcing a arctic base,that will be one of his 1st deals he does.

for what, the Canadian SSK's which have not even be designed yet by a vendor which has not been chosen

for delivery supposedly in the late 2030's ?

yeah, okay, sure

same old same old Canada

[herbie]

16 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

You can’t like Canada no matter how hard you pretend to be patriotic, unless it involves getting free stuff through redistribution of wealth.  Can you explain what you like about Canada?  Genuinely curious.

Mainly that people like you with an 19th century colonial mindset and willingness to hide historical errors and atrocities are a rapidly shrinking minority.

You are the one that lives in the best country on Earth and continually whines about it, glorifies what you imagine it "was" and opposing every opportunity to allow others to participate equally in it's future.

[Dougie93]

4 hours ago, Army Guy said:

I'm not to worried how the public or you perceive me or my career..

Soldiers of the Crown do not answer to the Canadian public

as Canada is not a republic ; there are no citizen soldiers in HM Dominion of Canada

profession of arms ; mercenaries for the sovereign

that is what it means ; to be a Royal Canadian

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, herbie said:

Mainly that people like you with an 19th century colonial mindset and willingness to hide historical errors and atrocities are a rapidly shrinking minority.

You are the one that lives in the best country on Earth and continually whines about it, glorifies what you imagine it "was" and opposing every opportunity to allow others to participate equally in it's future.

I’m all for ensuring that every Canadian has as much opportunity as possible.  I just don’t support divisive identity politics that assumes that some groups are inherently better or more deserving than others, nor do I support a political ideology that takes power and opportunity away from individuals while expanding government power and bureaucracy.  I also don’t support any rhetoric that depicts Canada as genocidal or oppressive.  Well, we got a glimpse of government oppression in Canada during Covid, and it was the leftist dingbats who made it happen, the same ones who brought you the Residential Schools you condemn.  

Edited February 10 by Zeitgeist

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

for what, the Canadian SSK's which have not even be designed yet by a vendor which has not been chosen

for delivery supposedly in the late 2030's ?

yeah, okay, sure

same old same old Canada

Well let’s see if we can get an upgrade on the subs. Poilievre was in top form actually.  

 

Edited February 10 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

4 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I’m all for ensuring that every Canadian has as much opportunity as possible.  I just don’t support divisive identity politics that assumes that some groups are inherently better or more deserving than others, nor do I support a political ideology that takes power and opportunity away from individuals while expanding government power and bureaucracy.  I also don’t support any rhetoric that depicts Canada as genocidal or oppressive.  Well, we got a glimpse of government oppression in Canada during Covid, and it was the leftist dingbats who made it happen.

see how Canada is like a giant Ulster ?

the Liberal NDP Fenians and their People's Republic Post National State fake country

it is only William III, Prince of Orange, whom would defend you from the rule of this mob

Nec Aspera Terrent

[Dougie93]

14 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Well let’s see if we can get an upgrade on the subs.

Canada wouldn't do it

Canadians are colonials at heart  ; it's not their job to defend Canada

deeply ingrained in the culture, and culture is destiny

not complaining, mind you

perfectly content to be a British North American Settler Colonial myself

Loyalist Orangeman of Upper Canada ; Identity Politics FTW

[Dougie93]

3 hours ago, herbie said:

Mainly that people like you with an 19th century colonial mindset are a rapidly shrinking minority.

Old Stock Canadian Loyalists

internally exiled to our luxurious estates & horse farms in rural Upper Canada

while the cities descend into Woke Progressive leftist lunatic violent chaos

gilded cages FTW

God Save the King

[Zeitgeist]

57 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Canada wouldn't do it

Canadians are colonials at heart  ; it's not their job to defend Canada

deeply ingrained in the culture, and culture is destiny

not complaining, mind you

perfectly content to be a British North American Settler Colonial myself

Loyalist Orangeman of Upper Canada ; Identity Politics FTW

Basically if Canada refuses to step it up by making the sacrifices necessary for independence, including having a formidable military, it’s better off folding itself into the U.S. The nanny state has been expanded to breaking point, such that there’s no room left to provide the essential conditions of sovereignty, including a strong defence, a resource and industry-friendly regulatory climate, and a tax system that encourages entrepreneurial spirit and rewards innovation and productivity, and that makes business activity the heart of the economy rather than government employment and spending.

Edited February 10 by Zeitgeist

[PIK]

4 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

for what, the Canadian SSK's which have not even be designed yet by a vendor which has not been chosen

for delivery supposedly in the late 2030's ?

yeah, okay, sure

same old same old Canada

Navies are now using AIP. Yes we are slow, but with this Trump BS, maybe the SKs or Japanese will put us hi on the list. Lol Seem the Japanese have 4 AIP units, that gives them 60 days. 

[Dougie93]

44 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Basically if Canada refuses to step it up by making the sacrifices necessary for independence, including having a formidable military, it’s better off folding itself into the U.S. The nanny state has been expanded to breaking point, such that there’s no room left to provide the essential conditions of sovereignty, including a strong defence, a resource and industry-friendly regulatory climate, and a tax system that encourages entrepreneurial spirit and rewards innovation and productivity, and that makes business activity the heart of the economy rather than government employment and spending.

I'll just carry on living as a British North American ex-pat stranger in my own land

I don't feel any affinity whatsoever for the Post National State New Canadian fake country collective

I already did my time in the trenches for Confederation

I'm retired now; to live out my days on my estate,  doted upon by my wife, with our dogs & horses

if the Americans overthrow the corrupt & incompetent Laurentian Elites in Ottawa, Montreal & Toronto ?

oh well, good riddance

 Nec Aspera Terrent

[Zeitgeist]

That’s about where I’m at.  If Canadians have become so soft and dependent on big government that they aren’t willing to assert Canadian culture and make the sacrifices to defend it, let the Yanks run it.  It might be better than the current arrangement.  We can’t even win at men’s hockey anymore. WTF?!