Do Leftists eventually turn Right?

[cybercoma]

Yeah, it's funny the antipathy towards the Liberals when they basically supported the Cons over the last two & a half years. Cut from the same mold and just wear different colours.

And the majority of Canadians vote for the two combined, so what does that tell you? Canadians don't like ideologues like Jack Layton.

[JerrySeinfeld]

I like this post alot. It very closely mirrors my own experience and I wuold venture to say quite a few other conservatives out there.

The old saying "if you're not a liberal when you're young, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative when you're older, you've got no brain" rings so true.

The tired old liberal progressive "arguments" ring so strongly for a youngster with big grandiose ideals.

It "feels good" to adopt these ideals. And even better, you never have to achieve anything concrete. Just adopt the ideology, grow a beard, criticize people with money and you're automatically "above" those lowly workaday conservatives who actually build the country and pay for your "activist" lifestyle.

It's actually a dangerous ideology, however, because by it's very nature it basically says "if only we had more power and money we would fix everything" - ie. we are smarter than everyone and should be in government. That's where the Obama parallel kicks in hard.

Unfortunately, these people never grow past the idea that when you start actually building something meaningful in the world - a family, a home, a community, a career, a business - you learn to fear people who want to "fix everything for you." Rather you would rather just be left alone in peace.

Obama and his ilk - and many people on this forum such as Black Dog or American Woman - never grew past this level intellectually. They never actually grew to the level of self reliance and understanding that being left alone by the government is actually a good thing.

I'm glad you shared this story, because, again, it mirrors the great divide: those who never grew out of the "feel good" ideals of government largesse and "fixing everything" versus those who actually got on with building for themselves and wanting to be left alone.

That divide, by the way, is why most political debates fundamentally favor left wing politicians: when asked the question "what are you going to do about _____ ?", the lefties have always got a long laundry list of expensive plans for spending everyones tax money. The conservatives, ideologically, don't always believe "doing something" is the answer, so their answers about what government is "going to do" always makes for less exciting television.

The really funny and tragic part about debating many lefties, like Black Dog etc., on this forum is that most of them don't realize that a lot of us conservatives have already been down the road they're still stuck on, have already used the same arguments they're using, have moved along to greater things, and hence are quite bored by their attempts at success.

Edited October 15, 2008 by JerrySeinfeld

[guyser]

It "feels good" to adopt these ideals. And even better, you never have to achieve anything concrete. Just adopt the ideology, grow a beard, criticize people with money and you're automatically "above" those lowly workaday conservatives who actually build the country and pay for your "activist" lifestyle.

Hang on, I need to grow a beard and find an "activist " lifestyle.

Be right back.

Uh oh...

- ie. we are smarter than everyone and should be in government.

Because...

...and many people on this forum such as Black Dog or American Woman - never grew past this level intellectually. They never actually grew to the level of self reliance and understanding that being left alone by the government is actually a good thing.

Wonderful contradiction.

Liberals think they "are smarter than everyone " and "never grew past this level intelectually" but you , thankfully and mercifully, know that they aren't.

The really funny and tragic part about debating many lefties, like Black Dog etc., on this forum is that most of them don't realize that a lot of us conservatives have already been down the road they're still stuck on, have already used the same arguments they're using, have moved along to greater things, and hence are quite bored by their attempts at success.

Phew. I was worried no one was out there to show the rest of "us" the way.

By the way , this road I must be stuck be stuck on sure has plenty of good freebies. Lets see, a house a car a business, good thing I didnt work for any of it. It was all free.

Talk about ranting against condecension using condecesion. Oi vey !

[noahbody]

How are they slowly veering to the left?

Dion promised to cut personal income tax rates if elected.

Stephen Harper failed to cut personal income tax rates

Not true. He reversed the Martin campaign cut for a year in order to keep the GST cut he promised in his platform. But he restored the cut in the next budget.

So you're paying less in personal income tax and less GST.

[jdobbin]

Not true. He reversed the Martin campaign cut for a year in order to keep the GST cut he promised in his platform. But he restored the cut in the next budget.

In other words, he increased taxes in one year to pay for his GST cut.

[nothinarian]

In other words, he increased taxes in one year to pay for his GST cut.

Yes because every fiscal conservative agrees that we should be cutting consumption taxes, instead of income/corporate taxes, as the most effective means to stimulate our economy

And all fiscal conservatives feel that having the highest spending government in Canadian history is also effective in stimulating our economy

No wait - those aren't fiscal conservatives - they are crass politicians who place a priority on good politics over good policy for electoral purposes

And highest spending government in history - good politics again but isn't that typical of the loony left?

And now Harper is stealing Libs ideas (but can't blame him for that as Libs did it to Reform/Alliance for years while in government)

http://www.1057ezrock.com/news/17/808675

Plus ca change...

Edited October 16, 2008 by nothinarian

[crowP267]

totally disagree with ur story. lok ast stephan harper. look at all the lost jobs. all the millions of dollars WASTED on the was and other needless things...lile this election!

[M.Dancer]

totally disagree with ur story. lok ast stephan harper. look at all the lost jobs. all the millions of dollars WASTED on the was and other needless things...lile this election!

and speling clases two

[Slim MacSquinty]

When your young it's hard not to be enticed by the left, that's where all the easy chicks are.

[cybercoma]

totally disagree with ur story. lok ast stephan harper. look at all the lost jobs. all the millions of dollars WASTED on the was and other needless things...lile this election!

Unemployment actually went down since Harper was elected. So, what metric are you using to determine the loss of jobs?

[nothinarian]

When your young it's hard not to be enticed by the left, that's where all the easy chicks are.

Politically correct - no

Accurate - bang on

[blueblood]

Unemployment actually went down since Harper was elected. So, what metric are you using to determine the loss of jobs?

He thinks that parliament is the Ontario Legislature.

[Mr.Canada]

I am the exact same age as you are.

Idealists are on the left and realists are on the right imho.

I very much agree with your post and believe it or not there is a huge gap in the centre of politics in Canada.

The CPC is steering toward it to take that avenue of return away from the Liberals as they used to occupy that spot.

BTW the newer generation is more greedy then the "capitalists" could ever be in the way that they think they are owed something by everyone except their own hard work.

[Smallc]

BTW the newer generation is more greedy then the "capitalists" could ever be in the way that they think they are owed something by everyone except their own hard work.

Yes, because no one in the new generation works hard....

[Moonbox]

Yes because every fiscal conservative agrees that we should be cutting consumption taxes, instead of income/corporate taxes, as the most effective means to stimulate our economy

That's sarcasm right? Either way, a tax cut is a tax cut. I liked Martin's tax cut better than Harper's in the 2006 election and voted for him in 2004, but at least Harper cut taxes too. This is better than higher effective taxes under Dion IMO.

And all fiscal conservatives feel that having the highest spending government in Canadian history is also effective in stimulating our economy

This is kind of an worthless point. The Martin Liberal government was the highest spending government prior to that. It seems there is an upwards trend. Hopefully that gets reversed but I think it was unlikely to happen under Dion/Bob Rae Liberals.

[Smallc]

Hopefully that gets reversed but I think it was unlikely to happen under Dion/Bob Rae Liberals.

I don't think it could ever really be reverse unless you were to push the burden somewhere else. The growth in spending may be able to be slowed, but I'm not sure it could ever be reversed.

[August1991]

Interesting thread.

I started a similar thread a while ago and it also has similar personal stories.

Do Leftists go Right, or do Conservatives Eventually Wake Up?

[Charles Anthony]

Interesting thread.

I started a similar thread a while ago and it also has similar personal stories.

Do Leftists go Right, or do Conservatives Eventually Wake Up?

The threads are now merged.

[PoliticalCitizen]

Someone (Shaw, Clemenceau, Briand?) said that if you are not a socialist in your twenties, you have no heart. But if you are still a socialist in your forties, you have no brain.

My query is different, and objective. Which way do people tend to move generally? And among movers in either direction, who is "worse" (who as a new arrival becomes more Catholic than the Pope)?

Ex-Leftists who grow up and convert to the Right? Or ex-capitalists who convert to an understanding of existence?

And why do people move? (Were you once a Leftist, or a Conservative? If so, what made you change your opinion?)

I can't say US administration has a heart (or US president a brain) but they're definitely moving left

[lukin]

The human race has to have "righties and lefties" as we need the balance to survive as civilized societies. The righties keep the world's economy going and the lefties ensure that they do it humanely. Long reigns of heavily weighted conservatism results in the majority living in poverty which leads to anarchy. As witnessed with the USSR, a long reign of communism resulted in enmasse human rights violations and extreme poverty.

My contribution to the balance, is to support the left. I would not go so far as to say that the all the posters who lean to the right are wrong but (IMHO) I view their philosophies as tangible contributions in sustaining the balance of our survival.

Having said all that - I for one, would love to own a Hummer but as a person who runs a government funded social program, that will never happen, they don't pay me enough!

Are you aware the communism represents the far LEFT of the political spectrum? You really contradicted yourself with this post.

[Kitch]

I think that the idea that people move from the left to the right as they age is simply another form of ridicule against the left by people on the right.

If you prioritize something other than whatever makes the economy grow at the top of your list, then you're stupid, right? I mean... correct? Or you don't understand how the world works. That's essentially what we're told.

I'm obviously not being fair to those who sincerely believe in free markets and have no problem explaining in detail why. But it's also not fair for people to assume that a leftist wrong and then not explain why, in detail, you think so instead of simply calling 'us' names.

[M.Dancer]

I think that the idea that people move from the left to the right as they age is simply another form of ridicule against the left by people on the right.

If you prioritize something other than whatever makes the economy grow at the top of your list, then you're stupid, right? I mean... correct? Or you don't understand how the world works. That's essentially what we're told.

I'm obviously not being fair to those who sincerely believe in free markets and have no problem explaining in detail why. But it's also not fair for people to assume that a leftist wrong and then not explain why, in detail, you think so instead of simply calling 'us' names.

I was far more right leaning in my youth....went to the moderate left in my late 20s..started drifting back to the centre in my 40s.

[noahbody]

It mirrors life. When you're young, you need someone to wipe your ass for you (left). When you get older, you might realize that you don't someone holding your hand (right). When you get old, you're more likely to appreciate a good ass wiping (left).

[Kitch]

It mirrors life. When you're young, you need someone to wipe your ass for you (left). When you get older, you might realize that you don't someone holding your hand (right). When you get old, you're more likely to appreciate a good ass wiping (left).

Funny, but...

So leftists are those who either seek welfare or indiscriminately give it out, and right wingers are those who look out for themselves. Seems fair... and it's not at all a generalization.

[capricorn]

In 1968 at the age of 22, I was the mother of a young child with a full time job. I had never paid attention to politics. My family had always voted Liberal and I foresaw continuing the tradition. We were, after all, French Canadians and for the most part, that’s what French Canadians did.

That year, Pierre Trudeau replaced Lester Pearson as Liberal leader and an election was called. The fact that a fellow French Canadian could become Prime Minister went straight to my head. I became a big PET fan and voted for him in all his elections. (It didn’t hurt that I was a public servant at the time and he granted us 10 to 16% wage increases in a short period. )

I was also a big supporter of Jean Chretien, again mostly because he was French Canadian. I began to pay closer attention to politics later in my career. As my taxes kept increasing I became increasingly discontentented with what I received in return. Then the rumblings of Liberal corruption started to surface. The HRDC boondoggle, Shawinigate and Adscam are what finally chased me away from the Liberals. I felt betrayed.

In my mind, the NDP was a socialist party and everything I had learned about socialism made me afraid to vote for them. So beginning in the November 2000 elections, I settled on the Tories. Strange, since my political rebirth I am more inclined to follow politics closely.

When I joined MLW two years ago, it never occurred to me where I was positioned in terms of the political spectrum. I joined simply because of my interest in politics and I liked the ongoing discussions. Left and right with regard to political ideology only entered my mind through my participation here. It doesn’t bother me to be branded a right winger. IMO, right wingers are outnumbered here. I kind of like being part of this minority because it just makes it more challenging. What does matter is that I know if the Conservative Party breaks my trust as the Liberal Party did, it too will lose my support. So the Liberals better get their act together to provide me an option because I will never turn to the NDP for solace.

That, so far, is my political journey.