Canada should contribute funds to a U.S. plan to resettle Palestinians in other middle eastern countries

carepov · February 17

46 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Who cares, isn't what's happening now enough to know its still just as wrong?

Lol. When you bring up history it is of great significance, but when history does not fit your narrative "who cares". LOL!

eyeball · February 17

7 minutes ago, carepov said:

Lol. When you bring up history it is of great significance, but when history does not fit your narrative "who cares". LOL!

What's so significant about the history you touch on that doesn't fit?

Note"who cares" is the very essence of the narrative and attitude that was inflicted on Palestinians 100 years ago. It hasn't changed much notwithstanding the addition of an LOL!

Did you pick that up watching videos of Israelis celebrating as shells slammed into Gaza? Fun times eh?

CdnFox · February 17

5 hours ago, eyeball said:

Meanwhile Canada refused European Jewish refugees. One more Jew was one to many according to the Canadian SC Justice who wrote the Palestinian Partition plan for the UN.

That wasn't meanwhile, that was decades later. And sure, we had a completely racist liberal government for a while and that's unfortunate but regardless we certainly wouldn't have been in any position to take in all of the Jews. I had to go somewhere

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Jewish refugees and Palestinians were not given any choices just more consequences of being unwanted and or unacknowledged by the bigoted big powers of the day.

Yeah that's real sad. Life is hard. Yawn.

Anywhoo that's what happened. And the moment it happened both the Jews and the Palestinians DID have choices. They had a situation to deal with and they could choose to deal with it this way or that way or another.

So tjeu had choices, and now they've got choices. No matter what you want to say about the past, today those people have their own choices to make and they can either choose life and prosperity and to have a home for their kids and to build something, or they can choose to live in rubble with nothing while their children's crumpled bodies lie unburied amongst the rubble and while their families starve to death.

And they think the second idea sounds great. Well... we all make choices.

CdnFox · February 18

4 hours ago, Venandi said:

It's sad because even now it's not too late, they can still have peace any time they want it. I just don't see a path ahead with Hamas at the helm. Israel needs a willing partner to make it work and that partner is conspicuously AWOL.

True. Worse, hamas was in power at the will of the people. It's not like the people were clamouring for peace and hamas said no against their will. So sadly getting rid of hamas won't lead to a situation where the palestinians choose peace, even thought they could have it tomorrow and could be prosperous and autonomous in a decade if they wanted.

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I don't know how you negotiate with an antagonist who has, as their primary objective, your destruction as a nation and the annihilation of your people. Perhaps one of the resident wisemen here can offer a viable method of achieving it between the duh's and LMAO's normally on offer. The murderous neighbour analogy I've often used to simplify the scenario for people who've never been there always seems to draw a blank.... most shrug and say they would move.

I also have doubts about a two state solution now even if Hamas is eradicated, I can't help but wonder what kind of monsters would be in line to replace them? I had the same concern while deployed on OUP Libya... Sudan was another disappointment. Some antagonists, seemingly by nature, are willing (anxious even) to fight themselves to a complete standstill, regroup, rearm and pickup right where they left off at the very first opportunity they have to do so. And without the slightest regard for the welfare of the people they pretend to represent. In the absence of blue hats from skiing nations how do you broker a lasting peace deal with folks like that? It seems only people with 3 ex wives who are estranged from their parents have the answer.

The people here who previously (and gleefully) parroted "choices have consequences" now need to put some meat in the peace sandwich. Even though there's a Nobel Peace Prize here for the taking, they simply can't move beyond historical events rendered irrelevant by time and circumstance.

Personally, while awaiting the profound wisdom of Herb, Doggiedoo and Roboduh, I would continue with the eradication of Hamas as a governing entity.

All IMO of course.

Well you hit the nail on the head. Is the people aren't interested in peace nothing can happen. And honestly I just don't see how it's tenable for Gaza to continue to exist. Who's even going to rebuild it? There's no way that israel is going to let them do it and turn it into a giant military base again with tunnels, despite trump's mildly insane claims we're talking trillions of dollars to clear out that rebel and rebuild that place from scratch the people can't live there with no homes and no infrastructure and no power and no nothing.

Best to scatter them to the four winds unfortunately and turn Gaza into a monument for what happens when you make bad decisions for now

eyeball · February 18

19 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

That wasn't meanwhile, that was decades later.

I'm not taking about the Jews Canada sent back to Hitler. And it wasn't decades, it was only 8 years or so later when SCC Ivan C Rand was the lead author of the UN Palestinian Partition Plan that Israel used to make room for itself.

Rand was described as both the greatest judge in Canada's history and an intolerant bigot. I wouldn't be surprised if he did have something to do with sending Jews back to Nazi Germany.

I guess he had even less regard for Palestinians. Who knows what sort of shits and giggles he got from sending Jews to Palestine.

52 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Yeah that's real sad. Life is hard. Yawn.

Yup that really dovetails nicely with the same old narrative Israel was born with.

carepov · February 18

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

What's so significant about the history you touch on that doesn't fit?

You implied that one of the causes of the conflict was the growing israeli settlements. Many poeple agree with you, and at one time I did as well. History is clear the root of the conflict is Arab violence (as eloquently stated by your hero Albert Einstein). It is Arab violence and the desire to kill or ethnically cleanse of all Jews from the entire region that is constant throughout history and continues today. This is constant in their words and their deeds. This is constant regardless of settlements, pre-settlements, post-settlements. It does not matter if the left wing labour party rules or not. It would not matter if Israel was ruled by the Dalai Lama, the Arabs would slaughter him and as many Jews as possible.

Edited February 18 by carepov

eyeball · February 18

2 hours ago, carepov said:

You implied that one of the causes of the conflict was the growing israeli settlements.

No. I said the cause of the conflict happened 100 years ago. The settlements in the West Bank are just part of the same program.

2 hours ago, carepov said:

History is clear the root of the conflict is Arab violence (as eloquently stated by your hero Albert Einstein). It is Arab violence and the desire to kill or ethnically cleanse of all Jews from the entire region that is constant throughout history and continues today. This is constant in their words and their deeds. This is constant regardless of settlements, pre-settlements, post-settlements. It does not matter if the left wing labour party rules or not. It would not matter if Israel was ruled by the Dalai Lama, the Arabs would slaughter him and as many Jews as possible.

Okay if that's the consensus amongst the developed world it just underscores why Palestine was the worst place to send millions of European refugees, especially Jews.

Now that it is what it is there appears to only be 3 possible choices. A Forever War, an Extinction War, or the countries responsible for these being the only two options left take action to prevent either from being realized.

Good luck with it in either case and remember this is what we voted for.

CdnFox · February 18

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

I'm not taking about the Jews Canada sent back to Hitler. And it wasn't decades, it was only 8 years or so later when SCC Ivan C Rand was the lead author of the UN Palestinian Partition Plan that Israel used to make room for itself.

So that wasn't 1946? Because if it's 1946 that is decades later not 8 years. The october revolution began in 2017.

And i see nothing anywhere about him claiming canada couldn't take a single more jew. Can you point anywhere to that quote?

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

Yup that really dovetails nicely with the same old narrative Israel was born with.

Which you still can't refute or address. Lots of people have had it very hard. Lots of people took the situations they found themselves in and decided that they would create a life for themselves and set aside the things of the past that would hold them back.

Your friends have not and they're dying as a result. And when it gets pointed out every single time you run away and you can't address it.

As with virtually every single one of your supposed ideologies, you're a hypocrite

eyeball · February 18

20 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

The october revolution began in 2017

Call it what you will but Oct 7 was just another skirmish in a conflict that started 100 years ago

herbie · February 18

Causes, effects, history are irrelevant to the subject.
The issue is that Trump's proposal is a violation of International Law, highly unethical to make decisions for the people of another country and abhorrent to consider Gaza as a 'property' to be bought and sold for development.

The removal of its people cannot even be compared to the removal of Bikini or Chagos residents as at least Britain and the USA were the internationally recognized 'owners' of those territories. International consensus is that Gaza belongs to the Palestinian residents.

CdnFox · February 18

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Call it what you will but Oct 7 was just another skirmish in a conflict that started 100 years ago

Call it what you will but October 7th was the beginning of a new war there was initiated by Gaza and involved the utterly barbaric murder of thousands of innocent civilians without excuse. As a result the people of Gaza are now paying a hefty price for their bad choices and will probably wind up being scattered to the four winds. Which is about what they deserve for initiating the conflict in the first place.

There is no history or mitigating circumstance or event that occurred in 1948 that changes any of that. They started a war and they're going to lose it in the most spectacular fashion. And Israel would be 100% in their rights to never let Gaza be free again.

The Palestinians had a choice. They could choose to have peace and to live and prosper or they could choose conflict death misery and the end of the future for their children. We know what they chose. Now they have to live with it

eyeball · February 18

3 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Now they have to live with it

So does the rest of the world. Deal with it.

CdnFox · February 18

17 minutes ago, herbie said:

Causes, effects, history are irrelevant to the subject.

True. Glad to see you're actually learning something for a change. There's no valid excuse for what they did

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The issue is that Trump's proposal is a violation of International Law, highly unethical to make decisions for the people of another country and abhorrent to consider Gaza as a 'property' to be bought and sold for development.

Gaza is not another country. I'm not sure it's in violation of international law. Like most international laws it really kind of depends on how you look at it and what the details are.

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The removal of its people cannot even be compared to the removal of Bikini or Chagos residents as at least Britain and the USA were the internationally recognized 'owners' of those territories. International consensus is that Gaza belongs to the Palestinian residents.

Well international consensus and five bucks will get you a coffee at Starbucks.

Trump can't do anything without Israel's permission, that much is true. And I doubt very much he'll be going in and arresting the gazans to relocate them. And of course the biggest problem is really where are you going to put them because nobody wants that many not bar terrorists in their country right now.

I don't think his plan is particularly practical whether it's legal or not.

SpankyMcFarland · February 18

You couldn’t make this up:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/17/miami-shooting-israeli-men

CdnFox · February 18

35 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

You couldn’t make this up:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/17/miami-shooting-israeli-men

Crazy.

Now if he's been a Healthcare Executive this would all make sense

It really does highlight the problems involved with taking the law into your own hands. And the level of tension in the country is under right now

Venandi · February 18

6 hours ago, CdnFox said:

True. Glad to see you're actually learning something for a change.

Yes, there was a sudden and unexpected flash there for the briefest of moments... and then it was gone.

I'm wondering who would voluntarily take the displaced Palestinians and what inducement would prevail against their reluctance to do so.... I don't have an answer for that. For an area of only 365 square miles it's densely populated and IMO it would be a tough sell to any country in the region. Europe has already learned some tough lessons in this regard so I expect it would be a hard sell there as well.

What I'm really wondering is if the sympathizers here in Canada, and specifically on this board would be willing to step up and advocate for their acceptance here... and if not why not.

Granted, it would be a huge undertaking and it clearly stands as a separate hypothetical above and beyond the moral and legal issues associated. But, in the absence of predicable deflections and irrelevant historical rumination's, were the folks here to balk at the general idea (in whole or in part) the reasons articulated would be instructive, they might even surprise themselves in the process of thinking about it when the result of the decision would directly impact them... a key factor that's missing in the discussions here (IMO).

Edited February 18 by Venandi

CdnFox · February 18

11 hours ago, eyeball said:

So does the rest of the world. Deal with it.

We are. We're bombing them into small bite-sized pieces until they learn their lesson and if necessary will scatter them to the four winds. That's how we deal with it. Glad you approve

CdnFox · February 18

4 hours ago, Venandi said:

Yes, there was a sudden and unexpected flash there for the briefest of moments... and then it was gone.

I'm wondering who would voluntarily take the displaced Palestinians and what inducement would prevail against their reluctance to do so.... I don't have an answer for that. For an area of only 365 square miles it's densely populated and IMO it would be a tough sell to any country in the region. Europe has already learned some tough lessons in this regard so I expect it would be a hard sell there as well.

What I'm really wondering is if the sympathizers here in Canada, and specifically on this board would be willing to step up and advocate for their acceptance here... and if not why not.

Granted, it would be a huge undertaking and it clearly stands as a separate hypothetical above and beyond the moral and legal issues associated. But, in the absence of predicable deflections and irrelevant historical rumination's, were the folks here to balk at the general idea (in whole or in part) the reasons articulated would be instructive, they might even surprise themselves in the process of thinking about it when the result of the decision would directly impact them... a key factor that's missing in the discussions here (IMO).

I think the secret would be in splitting them up. You're never going to find somebody who will take them all, that would be insane. But you might find that if you split them up into groups of a thousand or so you could get most of them into one country or another. Especially spread over a year or three.

There may be some country locally who'd be willing to take some of them with the right incentives and promises but honestly you just kicking the ball down the road. Best to get the majority of them out of the area entirely

eyeball · February 18

11 hours ago, CdnFox said:

It really does highlight the problems involved with taking the law into your own hands. And the level of tension in the country is under right now

This incident says more about the sense of license and empowerment some people have. The right wing is feeling quite triumphant and full of itself these days.

eyeball · February 18

6 hours ago, Venandi said:

What I'm really wondering is if the sympathizers here in Canada, and specifically on this board would be willing to step up and advocate for their acceptance here... and if not why not.

I stepped up to this year's ago. We insisted Palestine absorb millions of European Jews following WW2 so it's entirely appropriate that we should take in the people we helped displace.

carepov · February 18

14 hours ago, eyeball said:

No. I said the cause of the conflict happened 100 years ago. The settlements in the West Bank are just part of the same program.

Okay if that's the consensus amongst the developed world it just underscores why Palestine was the worst place to send millions of European refugees, especially Jews.

Now that it is what it is there appears to only be 3 possible choices. A Forever War, an Extinction War, or the countries responsible for these being the only two options left take action to prevent either from being realized.

Good luck with it in either case and remember this is what we voted for.

Until they were attacked in 1948, Jews did displace any Arabs. There was and still is plenty of land that can be peacefully shared. Consider the total population of Palestine (Israel + Gaza + West Bank):

1922: 750,000

1947: 1,800,000

today: 15,000,000

Also, Jews, the closest people that are indigenous to the land, for the most part voluntarily.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliyah

There were times of relative peace many times in the last 100 years and peace agreements such as the 2000 Camp David Summit were very close to establishing permanent peace.

If the Irish can make peace, so can Palestinians.

eyeball · February 18

11 hours ago, carepov said:

Until they were attacked in 1948

On May 19, 1948, two and a half weeks after the April 9 Deir Yassin massacre at the hands of Zionist terrorists caused thousands of Palestinians to flee their homes.

But of course by then the Zionists had been elevated to paramilitary status after the Britain submitted to them. I guess Britain and its allies like us just expected Palestinians and their allies would submit as well.

A bad miscalculation wouldn't you say?

11 hours ago, carepov said:

If the Irish can make peace, so can Palestinians.

I suspect if peace with Ireland meant a no state solution and kicking the Irish out of Ireland they'd still be resisting with everything they had.

Edited February 19 by eyeball

herbie · February 18

Oh FFS an entire bloc of retreads offer their opinion. The land you grew up on as did your grandfathers is not yours to decide on because some King Shit on the other side of the world said so.

No f*cking wonder you can't understand native people in your own damned country!
Colonial settler mentality so goddam ingrained into the brain you can't even see it.

taxme · February 18

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

On May 19, 1948, two and a half weeks after the April 9 Deir Yassin massacre at the hands of Zionist terrorists caused thousands of Palestinians to flee their homes.

But of course by then the Zionists had been elevated to paramilitary status after the Britain submitted to them. I guess Britain and its allies like us just expected Palestinians and their allies would submit as well.

A bad miscalculation wouldn't you say?

I suspect if peace with Ireland meant a one state solution and kicking the Irish out of Ireland they'd still be resisting with everything they had.

I do not understand as to why the world, especially America, gives so much of a crap about a shitty little country like Israel. What s Israel good for? It produces nothing. I guess that what i read once a long time ago is true. Israel does own America. 🤔

blackbird · February 19

5 hours ago, herbie said:

Colonial settler mentality so goddam ingrained into the brain you can't even see it.

Ya, we're all just colonials and have no rights at all as Liberals / Trudeau / NDP have told us. We should all leave Turtle Island and go back to where our ancestors came from. After all Canada is just a post national country now and all non-natives are guilty of genocide.