California has been ‘warned’ about this for decades amid outcry for aid

[Deluge]

Interesting how money can influence even the wokest of a$$holes. 

 

[eyeball]

California has been ‘warned’ about this for decades amid outcry for aid.
 

Sorta like Florida has been warned about flooding for decades?

Apparently officials in Florida are requested to get therapy for speaking up.

Jordan Peterson must feel right at home.

[Deluge]

1 hour ago, Deluge said:

Interesting how money can influence even the wokest of a$$holes. 

 

robomarx and the rest of the left-wing cult thinks the devastation in Los Angeles is funny. 

What a bunch of f*cking wokejobs. 

[NAME REMOVED]

lol...we have all been "warned" about climate change, and the catastrophic results of not addressing it since the 80s. However, MAGA and others continue to insist climate change does not exist. These fires, and the rise of temperatures globally are on the powers that be, for pushing this false narrative.

[User]

14 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

lol...we have all been "warned" about climate change, and the catastrophic results of not addressing it since the 80s. However, MAGA and others continue to insist climate change does not exist. These fires, and the rise of temperatures globally are on the powers that be, for pushing this false narrative.

Climate change did not cause the fire hydrants to run dry. 

Climate change did not cause LA to cut the budget to fire fighters this last year. 

Climate change did not cause LA to do little to grow their fire department to meet the growth of the community to provide proper coverage. 

Climate change did not cause LA to make DEI their primary focus instead of fighting fires. 

.....

Focusing on climate change will not change any of these things and even IF we accept the climate change alarmism, it is only MARGINALLY contributing to making these things worse. 

It is absurd to say that if in the 80's, if only we would have completely stopped using fossil fuels and gone back to the stone age, then 40 years later this fire in California would have been 10% less bad. 

 

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, User said:

Climate change did not cause the fire hydrants to run dry. 

No, apparently it was because firefighters on the ground opened too many hydrants at once causing water pressure to fail.

They were driven by desperation to do so by the fact it was too windy for planes and helicopters to fly safely or effectively.

2 hours ago, User said:

Focusing on climate change will not change any of these things and even IF we accept the climate change alarmism, it is only MARGINALLY contributing to making these things worse.

So why on Earth would you waste money on something so unacceptable it's often regarded as outright bullshit?

2 hours ago, User said:

It is absurd to say that if in the 80's, if only we would have completely stopped using fossil fuels and gone back to the stone age, then 40 years later this fire in California would have been 10% less bad. 

Yes that sure would be absurd alright. That's why no one said it and you're making it up because the way you think about stuff is completely retarded - by the same preoccupied obsession you always have with progressives.

[gatomontes99]

You know what is weird? San Pedro Bay was originally called the Bay of Smoke. You know, because of all the fires.

Quote

https://www.pbssocal.org/shows/lost-la/why-did-a-1542-spanish-voyage-refer-to-san-pedro-bay-as-the-bay-of-the-smoke

Still, the voyage -- commanded by a onetime conquistador named Juan Rodriguez Cabrillo -- produced the first written observations of the Los Angeles area. They also bestowed on it one of the region's first European names: Baya de los Fumos, or Bay of the Smoke.

So weird how those sail boats and horse and buggies caused all that global warming.

[-TSS-]

Could be quite a blow to Newsom's presidential ambitions.

[User]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

No, apparently it was because firefighters on the ground opened too many hydrants at once causing water pressure to fail.

They were driven by desperation to do so by the fact it was too windy for planes and helicopters to fly safely or effectively.

Talk about missing the forest for the trees. 

And why did they run out of water and water pressure?

The infrastructure has been neglected for decades. They continue to operate as if this were 1960 while communities continue to expand and grow. They should have had more water tanks, pumps, and reservoirs. They maybe should have had the reservoir they did have full of water instead of empty under repairs. 

This is criminal incompetence. We have been complaining about fires and it being dry in California for over 20 years now. 

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

So why on Earth would you waste money on something so unacceptable it's often regarded as outright bullshit?

I am not here advocating for wasting money. I am here correctly arguing that these fires are happening no matter how much you and others cry about climate change. So in the meantime, maybe lets have some water available for the fire hydrants. 

 

[robosmith]

11 hours ago, Deluge said:

Interesting how money can influence even the wokest of a$$holes. 

 

We've been warning you lDIOTS about climate change for much longer. Duh

[robosmith]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

No, apparently it was because firefighters on the ground opened too many hydrants at once causing water pressure to fail.

And also sprinkler systems in hundreds of houses where the pipes MELTED.

Any right wingers here understand what happens to copper pipes when the get real hot? LMAO

[Legato]

3 minutes ago, robosmith said:

And also sprinkler systems in hundreds of houses where the pipes MELTED.

Any right wingers here understand what happens to copper pipes when the get real hot? LMAO

Okay then, lets see you melt a copper pipe containing water,

I'll wait.

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, User said:

And why did they run out of water and water pressure?

The turned to many hydrant valves on at the same time.

2 hours ago, User said:

The infrastructure has been neglected for decades. They continue to operate as if this were 1960 while communities continue to expand and grow. They should have had more water tanks, pumps, and reservoirs. They maybe should have had the reservoir they did have full of water instead of empty under repairs.

They should just use seawater.

BTW I was a volunteer firefighter for several years, seawater works just fine in a pinch.

2 hours ago, User said:

This is criminal incompetence. We have been complaining about fires and it being dry in California for over 20 years now. 

If it's criminal incompetence or just the fear of authorities to mandate and enforce expensive measures on millions of people?

Inconvenient truths about the fires burning in Los Angeles from two fire experts

For decades, Jack Cohen and Stephen Pyne have studied the history and behavior of wildfires.

The magnitude of destruction this week in Los Angeles and Altadena, they argue, could have been mitigated.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2025-01-11/fire-experts-asses-los-angeles-blazes-amid-changing-times

Building codes need to compel property owners to upgrade buildings with fire resistant materials... authorities also need to provide continual warnings to clear dead vegetation and to wet dry brush within 10 feet of the house with periodic, prolonged sprinklings.

Would you like to be the politician who has to take this to the electorate? Imagine telling everyone they'd be getting billed for their mandatory vaccine.

Maybe insurance company CEO's would like the task of refusing insurance to home owners who refuse to retrofit their homes with fire resistant materials.

Maybe banks would like to foreclose on people who've refused or can't get insurance.

Maybe as a voter/property owner/taxpayer and you'd be understanding or maybe you'd jump 20 feet in the air. What do you think?

2 hours ago, User said:

I am not here advocating for wasting money. I am here correctly arguing that these fires are happening no matter how much you and others cry about climate change. So in the meantime, maybe lets have some water available for the fire hydrants. 

No amount of stored water would have prevented the wildfires we're witnessing in LA the winds are just way to strong.

Interestingly enough the experts cited in the source I've provided you have tried their make their recommendations outside of the climate change....'debate'.

Respected by fire agencies across the country, Cohen and Pyne have found their straight-talk admonitions often disregarded or dismissed.

Ten bucks says its the usual suspects dismissing them.

Edited January 14, 2025 by eyeball

[robosmith]

28 minutes ago, Legato said:

Okay then, lets see you melt a copper pipe containing water,

I'll wait.

Sorry but I'm not going to set my house on fire to get the copper pipes hot enough to melt the solder.

You do know that the solder melts at a much lower temp than copper. Probably NOT.

Of course the water in the pipes will boil and help to separate the joins.

[robosmith]

4 minutes ago, eyeball said:

They should just use seawater.

BTW I was a volunteer firefighter for several years, seawater works just fine in a pinch.

They are using ocean water. Saw video of one of the scooper planes loading up from the nearby ocean.

[eyeball]

5 minutes ago, robosmith said:

They are using ocean water. Saw video of one of the scooper planes loading up from the nearby ocean.

Sure, they should also pump it through their hydrant system.

[NAME REMOVED]

 

 

 

[Venandi]

7 hours ago, Legato said:

Okay then, lets see you melt a copper pipe containing water,

 

You have to be a bit patient with this and let the house warm up DUH,  the melting point of lead free solder can vary a bit depending on composition but apparently it's around 220C or 428F...

Trouble is, right wingers just can't seem to grasp that the only reason the house burnt down was because temperatures around the pipes got so high that the solder melted. Some of these MAGA hyenas foolishly thought that most systems (in most houses) would initiate before the joints melted and the pipes fell apart...  DUH, try and keep up eh.

Luckily, we have smart people here to keep those silly hyenas in check. 

And, as everyone knows, global warming makes good solder hard to find, DUH.

-----------

In all seriousness though, weak solder joints can be problematic with rapid onset heat stress... likely not a significant cause factor in this level of destruction though.Some hyenas might be more inclined to look at other factors like fuel loading, early response issues, manning and preparedness.... they might do that in response to the known challenges California clearly has at the best of times. 

Edited January 14, 2025 by Venandi

[gatomontes99]

8 hours ago, robosmith said:

We've been warning you lDIOTS about climate change for much longer. Duh

Was it global warming that caused the first explorers to name San Pedro Bay the Bay of smoke? You know, from all the fires.

[Aristides]

8 hours ago, Legato said:

Okay then, lets see you melt a copper pipe containing water,

I'll wait.

The water boils off and it melts the solder that holds the pipes together.

[gatomontes99]

5 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

 

 

 

Lmao at the first one. That's just hilarious.

The second one is easily explained. California is the richest state in the country so they should pay their fair share.

[Aristides]

Funnily enough we have the same thing in Canada and it's called equalization. Albertans are always b*tching about it.

Right wingers are always going on about high taxation levels in California. Maybe they wouldn't be so high if they weren't sending so much money to the rest of the country.

Edited January 14, 2025 by Aristides

[User]

10 hours ago, eyeball said:

The turned to many hydrant valves on at the same time.

No... because there was not enough water available to support the need. 

10 hours ago, eyeball said:

They should just use seawater.

BTW I was a volunteer firefighter for several years, seawater works just fine in a pinch.

Fire hydrants are not on some special infrastructure, you can't put sea water into the system. That is what we are talking about. 

We are also talking about areas in the hills, you need pressure to get water up there, sea water works when it is being picked up by planes and helicopters, otherwise you still need infrastructure to pump the water up to tanks... which is already the same problem we are talking about. 
 

10 hours ago, eyeball said:

No amount of stored water would have prevented the wildfires we're witnessing in LA the winds are just way to strong.

Talk about a dishonest argument. We are not talking about "preventing" any wildfires, we are talking about protecting the homes from them. 

Dudes were staying behind and saving their homes with a hose and their swimming pool water. The simple fact is that if firefighters had water to fight fires in these neighborhoods, they could have saved a lot of homes and property. 

 

9 hours ago, eyeball said:

Sure, they should also pump it through their hydrant system.

How are you this dumb?

[Venandi]

2 hours ago, Aristides said:

The water boils off and it melts the solder that holds the pipes together.

Automatic initiation typically occurs between 165F and 195F and doesn't require  power to activate. Wouldn't that be below the threshold to gas off entrapped water and melt joints.

Seems to me you're defending oddball occurrences that are (at least IMO) not statistically very significant when compared with other known and obvious cause factors. Clearly that can be an issue with pipes feeding furnaces / oil heaters if gravity fed fuel is released and feeds the fire. but under normal activation parameters I've not heard of "melting pipes" being causal. I suspect building codes would prohibit pex distribution lines but don't know that for sure. 

If you have links to such things I would actually read them as I have a passing interest in construction related issues.... I didn't find anything when I looked I but don't have time to pursue it much today. 

Logically, under the extreme circumstance present in LA, I'm not sure internal suppression measures would have much impact anyway... the external factors were so extreme as to render much of that moot I think.

 

Edited January 14, 2025 by Venandi

[Aristides]

14 minutes ago, Venandi said:

Automatic initiation typically occurs between 165F and 195F and doesn't require  power to activate. Wouldn't that be below the threshold to gas off entrapped water and melt joints.

Seems to me you're defending oddball occurrences that are (at least IMO) not statistically very significant when compared with other known and obvious cause factors. Clearly that can be an issue with pipes feeding furnaces / oil heaters if gravity fed fuel is released and feeds the fire. but under normal activation parameters I've not heard of "melting pipes" being causal. I suspect building codes would prohibit pex distribution lines but don't know that for sure. 

If you have links to such things I would actually read them as I have a passing interest in construction related issues.... I didn't find anything when I looked I but don't have time to pursue it much today. 

Logically, under the extreme circumstance present in LA, I'm not sure internal suppression measures would have much impact anyway... the external factors were so extreme as to render most internal activations moot. 

 

I never said the pipes will melt, just the soldered  joints  that hold them together. I agree that residential fire suppression systems would have little or no effect in that type of firestorm.