Trump's 51st State Troll

[xul]

You would consider it a serious threat if you knew why Hitler suddenly turned to Soviet after the Battle of Britain.

Hitler turned to the east because his offensive in the west was stalled by the strong resistance from British, so he turned to an easy prey---conquering the Soviet and seizing its natural resources would make German dominance in the Eurasia indisputable and would help to bring British under his knees. Of course we all know Soviet wasn't an easy prey at all from history, but in 1941 in Hitler's mind he didn't know it at all.

Now Trump‘s trade war with China is also stalled. Actually stall is an optimistic word to describe the situation. "He is losing the war" should be a more precise statement. Annexing Canada and seizing its natural resources will make US a super-superpower in the world and make US's dominance in the world indisputable, which will help him to bring China under his knees.

Some Canadian may ask: We are US's allies. If they want something from us, why shouldn't just ask instead of an annexation?

For understanding this, they need to understand what is the difference between cats and dogs which both we human are considered the same under the name of pets:

Thousands years ago, both dogs and cats chose to live with humans, but with different status. Cats chose to be an alley of human but dog chose to be the slave of humans. This is why there are military dogs but no military cats.

Just imagine: when an army guy brings his dog and cat with him to the battle field. When he suspects there is a minefield in his path and he gives an order to the dog "Go forth to see what's in there", the dog will execute the order dutifully.

But if he gives the order to his cat, the cat may say: "Oh, no way. I have just seen a big rat near that tree. Why shouldn't you go forth to fight your enemy and I stay here to fight mine? "😜😂

 

Edited February 16 by xul

[CdnFox]

10 hours ago, xul said:

You would consider it a serious threat if you knew why Hitler suddenly turned to Soviet after the Battle of Britain.

Hitler turned to the east because his offensive in the west was stalled by the strong resistance from British, so he turned to an easy prey---conquering the Soviet and seizing its natural resources would make German dominance in the Eurasia indisputable and would help to bring British under his knees. Of course we all know Soviet wasn't an easy prey at all from history, but in 1941 in Hitler's mind he didn't know it at all.

Now Trump‘s trade war with China is also stalled. Actually stall is an optimistic word to describe the situation. "He is losing the war" should be a more precise statement. Annexing Canada and seizing its natural resources will make US a super-superpower in the world and make US's dominance in the world indisputable, which will help him to bring China under his knees.

Some Canadian may ask: We are US's allies. If they want something from us, why shouldn't just ask instead of an annexation?

For understanding this, they need to understand what is the difference between cats and dogs which both we human are considered the same under the name of pets:

Thousands years ago, both dogs and cats chose to live with humans, but with different status. Cats chose to be an alley of human but dog chose to be the slave of humans. This is why there are military dogs but no military cats.

Just imagine: when an army guy brings his dog and cat with him to the battle field. When he suspects there is a minefield in his path and he gives an order to the dog "Go forth to see what's in there", the dog will execute the order dutifully.

But if he gives the order to his cat, the cat may say: "Oh, no way. I have just seen a big rat near that tree. Why shouldn't you go forth to fight your enemy and I stay here to fight mine? "😜😂

 

Almost none of that is accurate.

Hitler always intended to go after the Soviet Union. It was always the final plan. Hitler did not actually intend to go up against britain, he had believed and hoped that he could negotiate a settlement and wanted no part in a war with England. But England had to be neutralized if he was going to carry on with his plans in Europe. He had taken out his main rivals there, France the low countries etc and italy was on his side, so he gave up on Britain when it was obvious he wouldn't give an easy win but he thought they were neutralized. Because he didn't care about them, he just wanted them out of the way while he went after his primary target.

Trump is serious about china but it does not see himself as losing that war at this time and he is dead serious about his belief in manifest destiny. Not the first American to see things that way. Trump is about consolidating power in the united states and he has not coming after Canada because it's an easy target he's coming after Canada because he wants Canada because it will make the US considerably stronger.

In other words, no matter what happens with china he's still going to be pushing to Annex Canada. He will fail but he wants to get as close as possible.

As for dogs and cats you are completely wrong and misunderstand that entirely. Neither animal chose anything. We domesticated those animals and bent them to our will. Dogs are pack animals and as pack animals they're easier to train and they are eager to work with a group. They have an extreme loyalty to their group. Cats are not pack animals they are much more solitary and therefore they don't understand the concept of working with a group. It is outside their intellectual capacity to grasp, but that makes them excellent solitary hunters which is what we domesticated them to do in the end which is hunt rats and mice without guidance or any team involved.

Both are tools that humans domesticated for their own purposes and both are used for the purposes that they were intended whether they want to or not. Which is exactly how trump sees China and Canada.

[xul]

17 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Almost none of that is accurate.

Hitler always intended to go after the Soviet Union. It was always the final plan. Hitler did not actually intend to go up against britain, he had believed and hoped that he could negotiate a settlement and wanted no part in a war with England. But England had to be neutralized if he was going to carry on with his plans in Europe. He had taken out his main rivals there, France the low countries etc and italy was on his side, so he gave up on Britain when it was obvious he wouldn't give an easy win but he thought they were neutralized. Because he didn't care about them, he just wanted them out of the way while he went after his primary target.

Trump is serious about china but it does not see himself as losing that war at this time and he is dead serious about his belief in manifest destiny. Not the first American to see things that way. Trump is about consolidating power in the united states and he has not coming after Canada because it's an easy target he's coming after Canada because he wants Canada because it will make the US considerably stronger.

In other words, no matter what happens with china he's still going to be pushing to Annex Canada. He will fail but he wants to get as close as possible.

As for dogs and cats you are completely wrong and misunderstand that entirely. Neither animal chose anything. We domesticated those animals and bent them to our will. Dogs are pack animals and as pack animals they're easier to train and they are eager to work with a group. They have an extreme loyalty to their group. Cats are not pack animals they are much more solitary and therefore they don't understand the concept of working with a group. It is outside their intellectual capacity to grasp, but that makes them excellent solitary hunters which is what we domesticated them to do in the end which is hunt rats and mice without guidance or any team involved.

Both are tools that humans domesticated for their own purposes and both are used for the purposes that they were intended whether they want to or not. Which is exactly how trump sees China and Canada.

The word "suddenly" means timing is more important than other factors. You are right that Hitler always wanted the natural resources from the Soviet, but why he chose to fight a two-fronts war in 1941 is what I'm talking about. Hitler isn't a fool. How on earth couldn't he figure out that it was a mater of time that the US would join the war eventually since the US Navy was dropping depth charges on German submarines in Atlantic all the time? In his mind, defeating the Soviet with a BlitzKrieg and taking its naturally resources would deter American involvement, and after realizing there wouldn't be any help coming from outside, British might eventually surrender to the Third Reich.

I know not only Trump but the whole US as well always want to annex Canada. They tried it in the first place shortly after they became independent from the British. Elon Musk even much bolder. He want colonize Mars😜.  But again, timing is important on this matter. Why Trump expresses his desire of annexing Canada publicly now? Nowadays even Putin needs some excuse like Special Operation or something to annex Ukraine. If someone think Trump was doing some big mouth things he is wrong. If you compare videos in which Trump met Chinese President Xi Jinping, Indian PM Narendra Modi and Canadian PM Justin Trudeau, and pay attention on how his manner differs, you will know that he isn't a fool at all. He knew what the person on the opposite of negotiation table was capable of and to use what kind of manner to deal with him. He is so bold on annexing Canada because he is so desperate. He know the clock is ticking. He needs to act now before the collapse of the US empire becomes inevitable.

Most Canadians may not like Trump but Trump isn't a dictator. He isn't an emperor either. But even an emperor just can't push his policy in effect without being supported by at least part of his officials. It is a reasonable assumption that what Trump is doing isn't acted only by himself alone, but at least backed up by some members of the deep states as well.

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, xul said:

The word "suddenly" means timing is more important than other factors.

And it wasn't. If anything he had been delayed in his intentions because england was a tough nut to crack. The timing had absolutely nothing to do with it

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 You are right that Hitler always wanted the natural resources from the Soviet, but why he chose to fight a two-fronts war in 1941 is what I'm talking about.

He thought England was neutralized and had absolutely no interest in fighting a war with them. It's that simple his war was with Russia from day one. The whole business with France and England was just something he needed to do to secure the ability to go after Russia. As soon as he thought England and France for secure he moved on to his primary goal.

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 Hitler isn't a fool. How on earth couldn't he figure out that it was a mater of time that the US would join the war eventually since the US Navy was dropping depth charges on German submarines in Atlantic all the time?

Because he made the same mistake Russia did with Ukraine and thought that the war would be over in a matter of weeks, maybe a few months, certainly before winter. He did not believe the allies would have anywhere near enough time to enter the war with Russia. Exactly the same way that Russia thought they would have the Ukraine completely under control in about 2 weeks and so did everyone else. And if they had it would be too late for the US in the allies to intervene.

But just like Ukraine russia wasn't going down so easy and Hitler suddenly found he had a couple of fists stuck into the tar baby with no way out.

This is all a matter of history. Your lack of knowledge on the subject is relatively obvious and there's nothing wrong with that but this is probably the point where you need to sit back and listen and then go do a little more research before you make any strong statements  

 

 

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Why Trump expresses his desire of annexing Canada publicly now?

Because now is when he's in power. He's well aware that he will probably be out of power even if he tries to avoid it within less than 4 years. During his first term he had other fish to fry including covid. So when possibly could it be other than now?

 

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Most Canadians may not like Trump but Trump isn't a dictator. He isn't an emperor either. But even an emperor just can't push his policy in effect without being supported by at least part of his officials. It is a reasonable assumption that what Trump is doing isn't acted only by himself alone, but at least backed up by some members of the deep states as well.

The last thing the deep state wants is to have another influential political body to cope with. Most republicans also realize that if Canada joins the US it will become exceptionally difficult for the republicans to ever win another election. It would be like adding another California for the democrats.

And in about 15 months the midterms start. And Americans are going to be asking themselves if everything is going really well, and if Annexing Canada is the biggest battle they want to see fought right now. Trump could easily lose control of the house and senate, he's holding them with fingernails at the moment. Which means a lot of house republicans and senate republicans are going to be worried about their seats. And if the democrats flip about 15 seats in the senate which is possible it would have enough horsepower to actually impeach trump and throw him out.

Trump is aware of this. He doesn't really have four years to get everything done, he's got about a year and change and so he's going to put enormous pressure on for that time as long as we managed to hold out and be strong he will have to back off probably a fair while before those midterms because the other things he's doing is probably going to lead to some economic hardship in America before it leads to any benefit

He's also got the mess in the middle east to deal with and things aren't going his way there and he still got to deal with Putin.

I think the man is bitten off a little more than he can chew as long as we're too tough to swallow he'll have to give up before long

[xul]

11 hours ago, CdnFox said:

The last thing the deep state wants is to have another influential political body to cope with. Most republicans also realize that if Canada joins the US it will become exceptionally difficult for the republicans to ever win another election. It would be like adding another California for the democrats.

 

Why do you think republicans would lose if Canada became the 51th state of America? Aren't there any conservatives or  US or Trump copycats living inside Canada? Whom do you think they would vote for if the annexation actually happened?

Besides, the minds of common people may change under manipulation or different circumstances. A story for instance: Just assume during WW2, some American war prisoners were shipped to Japan from Philippines. In the mid of the sea, the ship was bombed by American bombers and caught fire. Unable to put the fire off by themselves, Japanese asked these prisoners for help. So, what would these Americans do? Help their enemy to save themselves by saving the ship, or let the ship sink so let themselves being burned or drowned to death?

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, xul said:

Why do you think republicans would lose if Canada became the 51th state of America? Aren't there any conservatives or  US or Trump copycats living inside Canada? Whom do you think they would vote for if the annexation actually happened?

 

I'm guessing that you're unaware of how the American voting system works.

People do not vote directly for the president. Each state is elected a number of seats, very similar to how each province here in Canada is allocated ridings. 

But in the states, there's what's called the 'electoral college' and each state has it's college reporesentatives.  

With a very few exceptions, they vote as a block based on the overall vote of the states. 

So california for example as about 52 seats if i recall correctly.   So lets say that 51 percent of the state votes democrat, and 49 votes republican.  ALL 52 SEATS go to the democrats. For the presidential election anyway. 

Canada is roughly the same population of california . So if we were the 51st state we would be allocated a Similar  number of seats. But the majority of people in Canada even if they will vote conservative from time to time, hates trump and hates the republicans or at least prefers the democrats. Certainly that'll be true back east. And if 51% of the people vote democrat then all of the canadian states votes go to the democrat. That's a pretty serious blow to the republicans.

For the house in the senate the majority of seats would be held by Ontario and Quebec, giving the democrats a bump up in the two houses.

It's not that the republicans could never win an election ever again but having Canada on board would most of the time be a severe disadvantage for them

9 minutes ago, xul said:

Besides, the minds of common people may change under manipulation or different circumstances. A story for instance: Just assume during WW2, some American war prisoners were shipped to Japan from Philippines. In the mid of the sea, the ship was bombed by American bombers and caught fire. Unable to put the fire off by themselves, Japanese asked these prisoners for help. So, what would these Americans do? Help their enemy to save themselves by saving the ship, or let the ship sink so let themselves being burned or drowned to death?

I have no idea whatsoever what that has to do with the question at hand.

I have no doubt that a lot of Canadians would grudgingly cope with it and adapt should this ever potentially happen. But there would also be a lot of bitter resentment especially towards the republican party which would have made it happen.

And the Canadian state would still be pushing for its Healthcare System and still be doing a lot of other things that republicans in the states would not like to see. Chances are they would be supporting more gun control and more abortion choices etc etc 

The republicans would not be happy with Canada as a major political force in the USA as we would be as the 51st state 

[xul]

If some Canadian think Trump is only acting on his own, I think they are wrong.

Just use the recent event on Ukraine for instance:

I guess most people believe that Trump is the first American president who sold Ukraine to Putin. But if they recall what Sleepy Joe said a few weeks before the war:"...Putin is planning an invasion....if he just takes a part of Ukraine it is fine, if he takes the whole it is unacceptable....", they will find they are wrong.

US had planned to give up part of Ukraine territory to Putin from the beginning. But after they found the resistance from Ukraine was much stronger and Putin's military power wasn't as strong as he boasted, Sleepy Joe thought he could use the war to weaken then dissolve Russia once and for all, he changed his mind.

Now, after find the war is unwinnable and only push Russia close to China, Americans change their mind again. Trump is just come back to what US planned from the beginning, nothing new at all.

[xul]

18 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I have no idea whatsoever what that has to do with the question at hand.

 

I'm fully aware how US's electoral vote system works.

People's political preference changes when whereabouts of their personal interests are laid changes. A Canadian steelworker was an US lover because most of the products of the company he worked for were exported to US, so actually it is the US which gave him the well-paid job.

Now, after US has put the tariff on steels and makes him jobless, he becomes a US hater.

And maybe a few month later, he will be hired by a US steel company since they will need lots of workers to produce the additional steels to replace the imported ones. So the worker may become a US lover again since only US can provide what he needs mostly.

When Canada became the 51th state of US, many Canadian would come around. Peace loving Canadian auto workers may become war supporters after they had found new well-paid jobs in tank factories.  Liberals may become conservatives when they move into the conservative dominated regions, following the example setting up by the former leader of the Conservative Party of Canada...😜

[CdnFox]

8 hours ago, xul said:

I'm fully aware how US's electoral vote system works.

I don't believe you. Somebody who was aware wouldn't have asked that question. The answer is startlingly obvious if you understand how their system works

 

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People's political preference changes when whereabouts of their personal interests are laid changes.

Right, that's why Quebec is such a happy part of confederation right?  

In two or three generations it might change.  But it certainly doesn't change overnight. And there's no way to be sure it would change in a manner that would benefit the republicans. How long has California gone democrat? If we're already starting off closer to them why would you think that any change would break us to the republicans rather than harder to the democrats?

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A Canadian steelworker was an US lover because most of the products of the company he worked for were exported to US, so actually it is the US which gave him the well-paid job.

Nobody sees it that way. And even those who care for America might not care for the republicans. There is a lot of national pride in Canada

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Now, after US has put the tariff on steels and makes him jobless, he becomes a US hater.

There are a lot of us haters right now that have nothing to do with steel

 

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And maybe a few month later, he will be hired by a US steel company since they will need lots of workers to produce the additional steels to replace the imported ones. So the worker may become a US lover again since only US can provide what he needs mostly.

What country has this ever happened in?

 

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When Canada became the 51th state of US, many Canadian would come around. 

It's never going to happen. It would never have happened anyway, but now Canada will spend the next decade distancing itself from the united states even more.

You need to do a lot more homework before you comment on this stuff. Canada was founded because we didn't want to be Americans. We have Successfully fought off every attempt by America to take us over and there have been a few. This will just Harden Canadians against America and there's no going back from that in the near future.

[xul]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

In two or three generations it might change. 

It may not take as that long as you think. Just watch the other side over the border. Don't you feel the political climate of public opinion there changes so rapidly that even beyond people's wildest anticipation?

Even your statement "but now Canada will spend the next decade distancing itself from the united states even more" indicates that the public opinion of a nation can be turned around just within a few days when circumstance changes, since Canadian had been willingly integrating their economy into US's for decades until Trump's tariff and annexation threat came.

[herbie]

On 2/16/2025 at 12:04 AM, xul said:

Hitler turned to the east because his offensive in the west was stalled by the strong resistance from British, so he turned to an easy prey

The USSR was always his main objective. Plus he had a LAND ARMY with no way of taking Britain. He couldn't smash the Royal Navy with air power either, the RAF saw to that.
Russia turned out to be anything but easy prey. Pretty much a bigger threat to Europe than Hitler was.

[xul]

On 2/18/2025 at 4:02 PM, herbie said:

The USSR was always his main objective. Plus he had a LAND ARMY with no way of taking Britain. He couldn't smash the Royal Navy with air power either, the RAF saw to that.
Russia turned out to be anything but easy prey. Pretty much a bigger threat to Europe than Hitler was.

Hitler wrote the book in the cell of a prison in 1923, when he was almost nobody. He launched the aggression on Soviet 18 years later when he had become the ruler of one of those great powers in the world. Had he changed his mind a bit and had a bigger plan then? We don't know since he killed himself at the end of the war without left another autobiography. But we can reasonably assume that he wouldn't stop there if he had conquered the Soviet. So he would eventually have to change his mind and draw a bigger plan.

Having a large land army doesn't mean he had to use it for an aggression, otherwise the WW3 should have broke out shortly after WW2 since both US and USSR had strong armies then. He could take defensive position in the east front and use German industrial power to build a stronger navy and air force to take Britain next year.

Maybe I have made too many assumptions here. But after all, my point is: In 1941, Hitler didn't know that USSR was far stronger than he thought. Most military observers then believed the Red Army was weak due to its poor performance during the Winter War. So Hitler saw USSR as an easy prey then. 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, xul said:

 

Maybe I have made too many assumptions here. But after all, my point is: In 1941, Hitler didn't know that USSR was far stronger than he thought. Most military observers then believed the Red Army was weak due to its poor performance during the Winter War. So Hitler saw USSR as an easy prey then. 

In fairness they were easy pray. Their gear was old, their organization was a complete joke, hitler blew through them like they weren't even there.

His problem was he overestimated his own troops ability to move and he underestimated the spirit of the Russians to resist. He banked everything on being able to finish the war by fall and had no plans for any winter gear, resupply of troops in the winter, etc etc. His tanks and other equipment broke down more often than he anticipated, it was only possible to move so fast and they did get bogged down by winter and that was the end of it. I gave the Russians time to move there factories to save locations, the Americans and Canadians and allies to supply massive amounts of material to Russia, and for every Russian to grab a gun or pitchfork and prepare to resist. He just didn't realize how big Russia was and bit off more than he could chew.

But no matter what he was always going to attack Russia. If the time hadn't been right then he would have waited till it was but he was going to take a poke at them.

[herbie]

20 hours ago, xul said:

Having a large land army doesn't mean he had to use it for an aggression, otherwise the WW3 should have broke out shortly after WW2 since both US and USSR had strong armies then. He could take defensive position in the east front and use German industrial power to build a stronger navy and air force to take Britain next year.

Huge mistake in your reasoning. Germany was doomed the minute they failed to take Moscow and allowed the USSR to regroup from behind the Urals. Gross error declaring war on the USA as from then on their homeland was under constant bombing. Plus there was never a chance to build a Navy, the Royal Navy would've sunk everything the minute it was launched. They had to build Uboats in pieces and sneak those together as it was.
A grand lesson on blindly following a leader insane with power and surround by lackeys and chickenshit generals and politicians. Let today's USA be aware of that!

Plus don't forget - post WW2 the Americans had the bomb and no one else did. By the time the USSR had one it was 1949 and NATO was formed. Meaning no war in Europe was possible without going nuclear. So we all lived with a stalemate for 40 years.

Edited February 21 by herbie

[BeaverFever]

Paying for every meal in packed Canadian restaurant, U.S. couple apologizes for Trump politics

Applause, cheers as American couple picks up the tab for entire Windsor, Ont., restaurant

The lunch rush at local restaurant Toast took an unexpected turn after a couple of visiting diners from nearby Ann Arbor, Mich., paid for the meals of every table in the packed restaurant. Behind the gesture of kindness? Their love for Canada, supporting local and sadness about the current state of the U.S.-Canada relationship.

Diners in a Windsor, Ont., restaurant were stunned and elated over the weekend when an American couple picked up the bill for the packed establishment — citing U.S. President Donald Trump's divisive rhetoric and their love of Canada. 
 

…

Hermiz said the woman told patrons "she hates what the United States is doing to us and she doesn't support it. And she's so happy we won the hockey game and it's a little token of appreciation for Canadians and how much she loves us and how much she loves supporting local."

"Everyone cheered them on again," Hermiz said.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/american-apology-meal-pays-canada-diner-1.7467020

 

[Aristides]

Peace Arch is the busiest border crossing in BC.  February crossings were down over 30% from last year, almost all of them Canadians. US border towns are worried.

[BeaverFever]

The head coach of Canada’s national soccer team is an American. Here’s what he said at the Concacaf Nations League Finals event in California when reporters asked about Trump’s 51st state comments

 

 

 

[BeaverFever]

 

[CdnFox]

33 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

 

 that was boring. Honestly with so much content out there I thought they'd do a hell of a lot better than that

[BeaverFever]

13 hours ago, CdnFox said:

 that was boring. Honestly with so much content out there I thought they'd do a hell of a lot better than that

Yeah. So far I haven’t seen much thats any better. Doesn’t help that the original Neil Young song is itself pretty boring. 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

Yeah. So far I haven’t seen much thats any better. Doesn’t help that the original Neil Young song is itself pretty boring. 

Like seriously, as you know I'm a firm believer that trump was a better choice than the others presented but for god's sake even I admit there is so much material out there to work with, we should be hip deep in amusing parodies. The mock artists on the left really need to steo it up

[BeaverFever]

39 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Like seriously, as you know I'm a firm believer that trump was a better choice than the others presented but for god's sake even I admit there is so much material out there to work with, we should be hip deep in amusing parodies. The mock artists on the left really need to steo it up

The mock artists on the right can join in too since this is a bipartisan issue in Canada 

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

The mock artists on the right can join in too since this is a bipartisan issue in Canada 

I don't think anyone in Canada is quite ready to laugh about this just yet on either side

[CouchPotato]

19 hours ago, CdnFox said:

The mock artists on the left really need to step it up

18 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

The mock artists on the right can join in too since this is a bipartisan issue in Canada 

I say let Trump be the mock artist if he wants. That's his game. He is the troll. So either he gets you to freak out at what he says or he goads you into a petty fight and beats you with experience, as the saying goes. It's fun to beat someone at their own game. But it's smarter to make them play your game. Though I am not entirely sure what that is. I think we have to be serious but not afraid. Kinda like Team Canada in that tournament. They didn't get distracted by all the nonsense.

 

[SpankyMcFarland]

Hitler was an unabashed Anglophile who admired the British Empire and Manifest Destiny. Bolshevism, however, was near the top of his naughty list. He dreamt of a Nordic Reich stretching from the Atlantic to the Urals, free of the ‘inferior’ races. Destroying the Soviet Union was key to this.