Finance minister resigns Winter statement day

[Army Guy]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

What we need is for someone in the Conservative Party to tell PP how frivolous and gimmicky cutting the carbon tax is in the face of doing anything about Trump's tariffs.

0.5% vs 25%...seriously?

 

Look we have had 9 years of liberal/NDP rule that have brought us to this point in time....do you really think NOW is the time to take advice from them....Most of the left want to trade words and slogans with trump. knowing full well he does not respond to any of that very well , they are picking a fight we can not win....diplomacy and talking like adults is the rule of the day, for that you need leadership, not some yappy liberal like justin....

2 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

We will see. I think a lot of Canadian voters are mature enough to understand this is how politics works 

Canadians have short memories, but not this short....she may get her seat back....but run the liberal party....i don't think so....

[BeaverFever]

57 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Turns out it's almost impossible for them to get rich without making the people around them and the people around them more rich as well. 

Reaganomics broke those rules. Over the past several decades the insanely rich just got insanely richer but life only got harder for the working and middle classes: longer working hours, disappearing pensions and benefit plans, precarious employment, overcrowded schools and hospitals, soaring university tuition, soaring household debt and on and on.  A single blue collar worker could once buy a home, a car maybe even a cottage and support his entire family but that  hasn’t been true since the 90s or 80s. All so that the 1% and corporations could have more wealth to move to their offshore accounts. 

[taxme]

5 hours ago, Army Guy said:

you think liberal voters will buy into that....or is she just as tarnished as Justin.

Liberal zombie voters will believe anything that their liberal political bosses and the lying MSM tells them to believe. They just cannot seem to help themselves. They need to have someone to help them think for them.

Anyway, one WEF scumbag down, one more WEF scumbag to go. 

Looking good !!  😊

[BeaverFever]

6 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Canadians have short memories, but not this short....she may get her seat back....but run the liberal party....i don't think so....

We will see. She has at least 5 years  to make a name for herself, which can be an age in politics. . 

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, BeaverFever said:

Reaganomics broke those rules.

No it didn't.

Quote

Over the past several decades the insanely rich just got insanely richer but life only got harder for the working and middle classes:

Generally speaking that's not true. But where it is true it is usually a result of government policy which severely impacts the middle classes rather than a result of the rich getting rich.

l

Quote

onger working hours, disappearing pensions and benefit plans, precarious employment, overcrowded schools and hospitals, soaring university tuition, soaring household debt and on and on.

Again some of that is untrue entirely and the portions that are true are generally not a result of the rich getting rich. A lot of what you're talking about is government spending and government unions. Tuition isn't going up because anybody else got rich

With regards to wages versus inflation until very recently americans were actually gaining on inflation

Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

As you can see even adjusted for inflationary dollars Americans wages have been going up faster than inflation until covid with the exception of a few of the economic downturns.

LIkewise hours worked has stayed pretty stable too, other than economic recessions or covid

Average weekly working hours U.S. 2023 | Statista

 

Quote

 A single blue collar worker could once buy a home, a car maybe even a cottage and support his entire family but that  hasn’t been true since the 90s or 80s. All so that the 1% and corporations could have more wealth to move to their offshore accounts. 

You're going to hate this. That had nothing to do with the 1%. That had to do unfortunately as an unfortunate and unexpected byproduct of women's lib

Prior to the 1970s a woman was not allowed to include her income in the calculation for how much of a mortgage a married couple could have or their credit. It was assumed that she would get pregnant and leave the workforce shortly to raise a family

This was understandably seen as bias and misogynistic. Women lobbied to have this changed successfully

Beginning in the '70s women's income could be included in the men's. And guess what started happening to the price of homes.

Women discovered that they could earn a small amount of income and add that to the amount and size of a home they could buy. Slowly the price of home started to go up. This led to inflationary pressures brought on as well by other government factors which continued through the 80s and 90s and now what we have is that you cannot afford a home without two incomes.

In Canada of course that became extremely exacerbated by the fact that we began to experience a population increase greater than our ability to produce homes and from about 2009 to 2010 onward that began to have an impact, accelerating radically in 2015 and onward

It has absolutely zero to do with corporations or corporate profits or the like.

The vast majority of employment in Canada, and I do mean the vast majority, has always traditionally been small to medium-sized business. Not mega  corporations. Remember when Justin Trudeau claimed that small business was a scam and added additional taxation to them back near the start of his terms? And everything he's done since then has been paid for by the consumer, not the rich with the exception of new taxes which caused the rich to get their investment out of the country 

We are now for the first time seeing more business leaving Canada than arriving and our standard of living is nose diving quickly. Most economists agree now that we have been in a recession for over a year, hidden by population growht, but that our gdp per capita is dangerously plummeting. 

Our problem is that we don't have enough interest in rich people to come here and invest the money and build our economic engine

I understand that you don't like the idea of a system where some people benefit outrageously more than other people even if all people benefit more than they would have. But that is the only way to make everybody better off

[taxme]

16 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Look we have had 9 years of liberal/NDP rule that have brought us to this point in time....do you really think NOW is the time to take advice from them....Most of the left want to trade words and slogans with trump. knowing full well he does not respond to any of that very well , they are picking a fight we can not win....diplomacy and talking like adults is the rule of the day, for that you need leadership, not some yappy liberal like justin....

Canadians have short memories, but not this short....she may get her seat back....but run the liberal party....i don't think so....

Canadians have short memories alright. The short of memory Canadians voted in old man Marxist Turdeau and he virtually aimed at trying to destroy English Canada. Now is Marxist punk kid is now running and ruining the country and he is also trying to do the same thing his old man was doing in trying to destroy English Canada. And i have no doubts that in, say twenty years, the short memory Canadians will vote for the punks kid boy to become the PM of Canada one day. The legend of the Turdeaus will carry on thanks to the short memory Canadians. Hey, we never know, eh? Lol.

[Michael Hardner]

26 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Reaganomics broke those rules. Over the past several decades the insanely rich just got insanely richer but life only got harder for the working and middle classes: longer working hours, disappearing pensions and benefit plans, precarious employment, overcrowded schools and hospitals, soaring university tuition, soaring household debt and on and on.  A single blue collar worker could once buy a home, a car maybe even a cottage and support his entire family but that  hasn’t been true since the 90s or 80s. All so that the 1% and corporations could have more wealth to move to their offshore accounts. 

The weird thing is that decades ago this would have been a leftist rant, and now it's Maga

[Politics1990]

10 minutes ago, taxme said:

Canadians have short memories alright. The short of memory Canadians voted in old man Marxist Turdeau and he virtually aimed at trying to destroy English Canada. Now is Marxist punk kid is now running and ruining the country and he is also trying to do the same thing his old man was doing in trying to destroy English Canada. And i have no doubts that in, say twenty years, the short memory Canadians will vote for the punks kid boy to become the PM of Canada one day. The legend of the Turdeaus will carry on thanks to the short memory Canadians. Hey, we never know, eh? Lol.

Xavier/ella  Trudeau the 30th prime minister  please come on down  😆

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I know I have CdnFox on ignore but it's actually BECAUSE he has The ability to be one of the most substantive and analytical posters here. And often he doesn't do that and just engages in tiddly, Winks, verbal battles etc 

I say this because, none of us seem to have actually read her resignation letter. I went back through this thread, with a lot of shame, because I didn't either. 

Lo and behold, CDN Fox did read it and seems to be the only person on here. Who did. Kudos. 

Here it is 

"It has been the honour of my life to serve in government, working for Canada and Canadians. We have accomplished a lot together.

 

On Friday, you told me you no longer want me to serve as your Finance Minister and offered me another position in the cabinet.

 

Upon reflection, I have concluded that the only honest and viable path is for me to resign from the cabinet.

 

To be effective, a Minister must speak on behalf of the Prime Minister and with his full confidence. In making your decision, you made clear that I no longer credibly enjoy that confidence and possess the authority that comes with it.

 

For the past number of weeks, you and I have found ourselves at odds about the best path forward for Canada.

 

Our country today faces a grave challenge. The incoming administration in the United States is pursuing a policy of aggressive economic nationalism, including a threat of 25 per cent tariffs.

We need to take that threat extremely seriously. That means keeping our fiscal powder dry today, so we have the reserves we may need for a coming tariff war. That means eschewing costly political gimmicks, which we can ill afford and which make Canadians doubt that we recognize the gravity of the moment.

 

That means pushing back against 'America First' economic nationalism with a determined effort to fight for capital and investment and the jobs they bring. That means working in good faith and humility with the premiers of the provinces and territories of our great and diverse country, and building a true Team Canada response.

 

I know Canadians would recognize and respect such an approach. They know when we are working for them, and they equally know when we are focused on ourselves. Inevitably, our time in government will come to an end. But how we deal with the threat our country currently faces will define us for a generation, and perhaps longer. Canada will win if we are strong, smart, and united."

.....

She's telling all Canadians that we have a dire threat coming up, and now is not the time for frivolous spending. Even calls out gimmicks, specifically referring to the GST break I think.

We are going to have a Conservative government very soon. We have to try and get United to prepare for this fight, no matter who the government is. 

This is serious.

I actually read her resignation letter when she put it out. To be honest I just assumed everyone had

[CdnFox]

Well... not that this is entirely unexpected but i still can't believe how high the cpc is polling

Abacus data poll

Abacus Data Poll: Post-Freeland resignation, Trudeau’s net favourability drops to -43 as only 19% want him to stay on as Prime Minister.

CONSERVATIVES 45 

LIBERALS 20

NDP 18

And that probably gets worse for both the liberals and NDP over the next week or so.

Conservatives polling at 45%. It is possible they may yet hit 50% before the election. And that's not just a voters who showed up but that's what the entire nation is polling. The NDP and liberals may suffer from low voter turnout similar to what we saw in the Ontario election.

If things go wrong for the liberals during the campaign they might lose official party status

[taxme]

20 hours ago, CdnFox said:

I actually read her resignation letter when she put it out. To be honest I just assumed everyone had

Good riddance to bad WEF globalist garbage. I wish someone here could tell me as to what the hell did Freelander ever do for Canada and Canadians. Maybe some of the liberals here can give me something? I know many things that she gave us that did nothing to help make Canada great. I know that she gave us woke and broke programs. 👎

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, taxme said:

Good riddance to bad WEF globalist garbage. I wish someone here could tell me as to what the hell did Freelander ever do for Canada and Canadians. Maybe some of the liberals here can give me something? I know many things that she gave us that did nothing to help make Canada great. I know that she gave us woke and broke programs. 👎

Her resignation letter WAS what she did for canadians   

[taxme]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Her resignation letter WAS what she did for canadians   

Sadly, we are still stuck with the liberal bimbo. She is not finished just yet with trying to destroy Canada with her WEF globalist agenda. She is still in favor of steak for the globalist elite and bugs for the rest of us. This imbecile gave 9 million tax dollars to one of her liberal cronies of our taxpayer's dollars to start up a cricket factory in Ontario. I will be looking forward to the day when i will see packaged wrapped crickets in the frozen meat section in our supermarkets. Wtf? 

[CdnFox]

45 minutes ago, taxme said:

Sadly, we are still stuck with the liberal bimbo. She is not finished just yet with trying to destroy Canada with her WEF globalist agenda. She is still in favor of steak for the globalist elite and bugs for the rest of us. This imbecile gave 9 million tax dollars to one of her liberal cronies of our taxpayer's dollars to start up a cricket factory in Ontario. I will be looking forward to the day when i will see packaged wrapped crickets in the frozen meat section in our supermarkets. Wtf? 

For now we are. But she may very well have triggered an early election which would indeed be a gift

[cannuck]

On 12/17/2024 at 5:40 PM, CdnFox said:

That is what works! The more rich people getting rich the better! Because it absolutely guarantees that the Poor are better off as well.

Any questions? I hope that didn't shatter your left-wing woke talking point perspective  

That is not exactly true.  Wealth distribution is NOT wealth creation.   You can only create wealth by adding value to a resource or performing a service in support of same.   We long ago went down Wall Street's path and switched our "economy" to one that rewards the least productive among us the most - generally through not just allowing, but PROMOTING speculative gain - a function that produces no wealth but does increase the money supply.  That is purely inflationary, so the benefits enjoyed by the speculators are distinctly at the expense of the general population.   Everyone may see their numbers go up, but the switch from a productive economy to a speculative on can cost a lot more in purchasing power.  If you need a simple example: tell me how an average family is going to afford a single unit dwelling in Toronto or Vancouver.  We worship speculation at the cost of productivity and sustainability.

Coming out of the '30s the economies of Canada and USA were built by entrepreneurs, businessmen and industrialists by creating wealth.   Easy to do when our global competitors were being bombed into rubble - and we were making the weapons to do so.  Canada has always profited from exploitation of our massive resource base, but we also devoted our -30s to '60s economy to productive value added business.  Sadly: the Eastern stranglehold on power and control latched onto building cars mostly in Ontario (at the start of NAFTA 70% if all trade between the largest trading partners on the planet - Can and USA - had developed under the Auto Pact (where Canada was a clear winner).  It also seized on the idea of giving unbelievable and unsustainable benefits to Quebec - at the expense of many, many other businesses in ROC that would not even get the opportunity to compete.

The trouble comes when you have to figure out where the investment capital needed by Main Street (where virtually ALL wealth is created) has gone we see that it is all on Bay Street and Wall Street where speculative gains can be produced at 10x, 100x or even 1000x market value by playing speculative games.  How does a real business able to at best produce a 10% dividend compete with sugar plum fairy promises of orders of magnitude gains from money used in Casino Capitalism?   By funding finance with bets on speculative gain we have defunded the entire mechanisms of the economy that creates all wealth.

Worth noting: this is NOT something that either end of the partisan spectrum champions in opposition to the other - finance and banks now run the economies of both countries, not business and sure as Hell not some informed political movement.

Edited December 21, 2024 by cannuck

[Aristides]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/10/08/top-1-of-us-households-hold-15-times-more-wealth-than-bottom-50-combined/

In 2022 the net worth of the top 10 US billionaires totalled over 1.5 trillion USD. The top 5 accounted for just over 1 trillion of that.

 

 

Edited December 21, 2024 by Aristides

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, cannuck said:

That is not exactly true.  Wealth distribution is NOT wealth creation.   You can only create wealth by adding value to a resource or performing a service in support of same. 

Wealth distribution isn't the thing at all. It's a phrase that those on the left tend to use to create a sense of wrongness about the fact that some people are wealthier than others.

As far as your definition of wealth creation, it's not really inaccurate, but I think the problem that you're going to run into is how you're defining how people create or add value to a resource or service. I suspect your perspective is limited.

2 hours ago, cannuck said:

We long ago went down Wall Street's path and switched our "economy" to one that rewards the least productive among us the most - generally through not just allowing, but PROMOTING speculative gain - a function that produces no wealth but does increase the money supply. 

Nonsense. Speculative gain requires a great deal of skill and information and talent to be able to accurately guess what things will be in greater demand to down the road and also to acquire them now in anticipation. You may not see that as value but it is in fact value. It's work being translated into a result which produces wealth

And further in a capitalist model others can look at the needs of the future and produce additional resources to meet them. It's only inflationary if that fails.

2 hours ago, cannuck said:

Coming out of the '30s the economies of Canada and USA were built by entrepreneurs, businessmen and industrialists by creating wealth.   Easy to do when our global competitors were being bombed into rubble - and we were making the weapons to do so.

Sure, henry ford would neve have been successful if ww1 didn't happen. 🙄 In fact america's greatest times of prosperiy were outside of the wars and it's greatest technological advancements as well. 

2 hours ago, cannuck said:

The trouble comes when you have to figure out where the investment capital needed by Main Street (where virtually ALL wealth is created) has gone we see that it is all on Bay Street and Wall Street where speculative gains can be produced at 10x, 100x or even 1000x market value by playing speculative games.  How does a real business able to at best produce a 10% dividend compete with sugar plum fairy promises of orders of magnitude gains from money used in Casino Capitalism?   By funding finance with bets on speculative gain we have defunded the entire mechanisms of the economy that creates all wealth.

Virtually none of this is true.

And if you look at the richest people in the world today, they didn't get rich based on speculation. Must actually did things and created things to earn his money. Same with Bezos and gates and zuckerberg.  You may argue that a portion of their wealth is based on speculation of value but to be honest the vast majority of it is based on actual real things. Tesla is a real thing, amazon is a real thing, windows is a real thing, and so on. 

The vast vast vast vast majority of wealth that persists in this world is created based on actual wealth creation. If that were not true then there would be nothing to actually speculate on

And what happens is when the rich get richer everybody else benefits and is elevated as well. The rich made you better than anyone else but everyone else still does better than they would have. And capitalism has always been that way, which is why it is lifted more people out of abject poverty than anything else in the history of man.

 

[cannuck]

5 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Tesla is a real thing, amazon is a real thing, windows is a real thing, and so on. 

The vast vast vast vast majority of wealth that persists in this world is created based on actual wealth creation. If that were not true then there would be nothing to actually speculate on

I could go on to the blatantly obvious error in every one of your points, but you seem to have no interest in understanding how economies actually work, so I will keep it down to one.

Tesla is indeed making cars, and, if you can believe their highly questionable accounting making some profit.   BUT that is nickles and dimes to the money made on speculative gain on startup.  The "market value" of Tesla was greater than all of the Big Three combined - against a negative book value.   The profits from pure speculation is in the THOUSANDS of times book value.  And that to the point of profitability created ZERO weath.  Same goes for all of the other "Casino is good" bullshit.

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, cannuck said:

I could go on to the blatantly obvious error in every one of your points, but you seem to have no interest in understanding how economies actually work, so I will keep it down to one.

 

So in other words you know you're wrong I can't make a coherent argument so you'll attack me and your stupidity becomes my fault. Pretty typical for your kind

Quote

Tesla is indeed making cars, and, if you can believe their highly questionable accounting making some profit. 

Nah they're broke and never made a penny. It's obvious. Capitalism is a fraud.🙄

Quote

 BUT that is nickles and dimes to the money made on speculative gain on startup.  The "market value" of Tesla was greater than all of the Big Three combined - against a negative book value. 

So they're not making cars and making a profit?

Here's the thing. If people believe that an idea or a company is going to be successful they are prepared to invest in it. That is not speculation the way you're using the word. If their investment produces results and they make money so much the better.

Quote

 The profits from pure speculation is in the THOUSANDS of times book value.  And that to the point of profitability created ZERO weath.  Same goes for all of the other "Casino is good" bullshit.

Post lefties who have read a couple of pamphlets and don't understand finance think this way. Honestly it's tiring.

You are completely misusing the word speculation and apply it to any venture. Anything that isn't guaranteed appears to be speculation in your mind. That is not what speculation is. Anyone with half a brain understands that.

And literally every venture starts off exactly the same way and it's not speculation. I think my business is going to do well so I invest $100,000 to buy equipment and set it up and get it going. Lo and behold it does well and i make money. 

Was that speculation? The amount of money invested in it was significantly higher than the book value. But that is every business everywhere.

And of course people invest money believing that it's going to produce a better rate of return. Again that's not speculation, that's just investing.

It's obvious some left-wing Retarded socialist taught you what you believe you know about finance. And seems to have taught you that anytime someone invests in anything is speculation and therefore evil.

Stay at home and play with your Lego and collect your welfare check. The adults are talking

[cannuck]

11 hours ago, CdnFox said:

So in other words you know you're wrong I can't make a coherent argument so you'll attack me and your stupidity becomes my fault. Pretty typical for your kind

Nah they're broke and never made a penny. It's obvious. Capitalism is a fraud.🙄

So they're not making cars and making a profit?

It's obvious some left-wing Retarded socialist taught you what you believe you know about finance. And seems to have taught you that anytime someone invests in anything is speculation and therefore evil.

Stay at home and play with your Lego and collect your welfare check. The adults are talking

You seem to have a complete lack of ability to read carefully.  I said UP TO start of production.

Also, me investing a hun in MY business is not speculative, it is capitalism.  YOU gambling on and banks manipulating the value of equities or far worse synthetic instruments is what I refer to as Casino Capitalism as it has literally NOTHING to do with my balance sheet.

Since I finance 5 companies in 3 countries, answer to 700 shareholders in one and have been deeply involved in what moves prices of a NASDAQ traded company as well as an executive of some obviously very conservative political parties I don't think anyone with a half a brain would call me a "lefty" - unless of course they made their livelihood of participating the the financial scams of Casino Capitalism that suck the very life out of the real economy.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, cannuck said:

You seem to have a complete lack of ability to read carefully.  I said UP TO start of production.omy.

There's only so much time I'm prepared to swim through shit looking for a flower. But honestly that changes nothing. 

2 hours ago, cannuck said:

Also, me investing a hun in MY business is not speculative, it is capitalism. 

It doesn't matter if it's your business or not. But yes, it's capitalism. You're learning.

2 hours ago, cannuck said:

YOU gambling on and banks manipulating the value of equities or far worse synthetic instruments is what I refer to as Casino Capitalism as it has literally NOTHING to do with my balance sheet.

Of course it does. I know that you're using generic and general terms that you don't really understand so that when I try and pin you down you're going to say oh no no I meant something else, but at the end of the day if you're referring to the value of equities you're referring to the value of a business if we stick with the original "your" business comparison. 

The value of a business is not just in its balance sheet. The value of a business is also in its potential. If your business made 100 million profit last year, and that's what it's balance sheet shows, and there's every reason to believe it would make $100 million more the next year and the year after then it's current value isn't 100 million, it's 100 million plus the value of its future years of productivity. In most cases they would say at least two years that's accepted everywhere around the world. So your balance sheet is only a small portion of the calculation even in the most basic of cases.

Then we get into weather or not your business might expand and do even better. And that's where we get into stocks and bonds and securities and all that kind of stuff. 

You have no idea what you're talking about

2 hours ago, cannuck said:

Since I finance 5 companies in 3 countries, answer to 700 shareholders in one and have been deeply involved in what moves prices of a NASDAQ traded company as well as an executive of some obviously very conservative political parties I don't think anyone with a half a brain would call me a "lefty" - unless of course they made their livelihood of participating the the financial scams of Casino Capitalism that suck the very life out of the real economy.

I think they will call you a liar.

They might also call you a hypocrite considering your profiting from and participating in the very system that you're claiming is so evil.

[cannuck]

30 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I think they will call you a liar.

They might also call you a hypocrite considering your profiting from and participating in the very system that you're claiming is so evil.

Don't care what anyone chooses to call me.

I have NOT made a speculative transaction of any kind in probably 30 years.  The only system I participate in depends on private equity, not publicly traded equities.  I profit from capitalism - that is severely compromised and damaged by the Casino Capitalists who literally dictate to governments around the world as to what will be financial legislation, regulation and enforcement.   It should be painfully obvious when the endless string of Goldman Sucks top execs went from just being secretary of treasury to inciting "too big to fail".  If you ever care to actually learn some of this stuff, you need to go back to the "Bank Holidays" when the strategies were put in place.   They played out in 2008/9 when instead of being punished as they were for their treachery in 1929/33 they were handsomely rewarded (by themselves).

What you seem to fail to understand is that financial legislation, regulation and enforcement is NOT a partisan thing.  Bankers/financier are simply greedy, manipulative opportunists and will buy their way into whatever partisan or other situation that will allow them to continue on their own path.   Another thing: NO form of government pr political orientation has a monopoly on good government, good legislation, good regulation or fair and honest enforcement.  There are equally as many pure scumbags distributed throughout the US and Canadian Uniparties

Edited December 22, 2024 by cannuck