West Posted November 24, 2024 Report Posted November 24, 2024 On 11/21/2024 at 5:59 AM, myata said: - Does a disagreement, or less than absolute agreement with all policies and/or actions of the state of Israel amount to "hate of Israel"? - Is universal morality conditional on or/and requires absolute and unconditional support of every policy and political platform of Israel? - Do we really need more of religion-pumped and inflated pseudo-moral crusades? Hasn't the past taught us anything? 1. No but kidnapping and raping women because they are Israeli and then blaming their government for retaliating after vile attacks is. 2. No but the jew hatred running amok is out if hand 3. Yes we need more religion. We've tried the secular way and has resulted in more anger and depression than any other time in history On 11/20/2024 at 9:35 PM, blackbird said: " If I forget thee, O Jerusalem… (Psalm 137) It is the great moral disorder of our time. Dear Israel is but a spit of earth on a huge globe. Three years after six million Jews were put to torture, humiliation, whippings, rape, medical experiment, starvation, and vile death, was it not surely time — time for all the nations of the Earth who had reached some moral understanding of life and government — to allow Jewish people time to rest, time to mourn, time to see what and who might be left of them. To find just one period, just one time, just one place where and when they did not have to start up in the middle of the night when unfamiliar sounds disturbed, did not have to hear demagogues howling at them from street corners, or put up with the trendy, ignorant western pseudo-radicals shouting in bullhorns from library steps. To not see their shops and homes targets of mobs and slanders, their synagogues battered. A time when they might gather on a bit of land where dogs were not set upon them; where children did not mock them; where passerby thugs did not attack their elders in the street; where Jews unique in their sorrow and pain could meet with some of their tormented doubles, if for nothing else but to share laments and profound griefs, generate solace by shared company and memory. Ah, Jews. Ah, Israel." Rex Murphy: Hatred of Israel is the great moral disorder of our time Thank you brother blackbird 1 Quote
NAME REMOVED Posted November 24, 2024 Report Posted November 24, 2024 11 hours ago, eyeball said: It's a little suspicious that the only thing the UN was ever good for was creating Israel the way it did. The UN has done a lot of good in the World. Korea Yugoslavia etc. They just have not been effective in the past 20 years. 1 Quote
myata Posted November 24, 2024 Report Posted November 24, 2024 6 hours ago, West said: 2. No but the jew hatred running amok is out if hand I don't buy into versions of morality where only the crimes against and suffering against specific ethnic or other group matter - it's an unfailing recipe for "eye for an eye" violence to dumb eternity. The law can be universal or it's no law, only an excuse, rationalization etc. The state of Israel is not an innocent victim here: it executed, persistently and over time a policy of removal of native population from its land, de facto ethnic cleansing, a crime against humanity. It doesn't and cannot justify acts of genocide. But it cannot be erased from the reality either. State of Israel committed crimes and abhorrent crimes were committed against its citizens. The cycle never ends. This is objective reality. You are not the first one to hope that ways of the past, long past could solve problems of today's world. But the time never goes back so it's really a dumb idea, past naive. It will fail as it did every single time it was tried. Past will not solve our problems. But if we let go of sanity and responsibility, there's always one default solution that will catch up, sooner or later. Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
ExFlyer Posted November 24, 2024 Report Posted November 24, 2024 13 hours ago, Army Guy said: Why would we want to be part of some group if it has no benefit to our nation...we pay to be a part of this and we get back a vote....that counts for what....not much....UN is run by 3 rd world nations, they have there own agenda...They have no power at all, neither does the inter national courts....The US has already come out and said any nation that messes with Israelis PM will be sanctioned or worse by the US government...Joe Biden, flexes before leaving office... we pay , and get nothing in return, nor do we stop wars, starvation, nothing...it is a toothless organization terrorist organization have taken advantage of... Why would we want a seat at the table...does it give us power, or global reputation, i mean where do you think we stand on the global scale of reputation if we can't even get a seat at the table...It once was a powerful organization, but today, come on they had a murdering dictator as human rights chair men...come on.... Cannot answer that but both conservatives and liberals have tried hard and lobbied extensively to become a member to the Security Council again. Canada pays the UN but not as much as it used to (as with so many international commitments). Canada was really involved in peacekeeping but it has not been so in recent years. Why do we want a seat at the Security Council table? Well, both the conservative and liberal governments would have to explain that to you. We lost our seat in 2000 and never got it back. As for the viability of the UN, well, it is a large international organization and it does good in many areas. Not defending but also not diminishing it. Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
eyeball Posted November 24, 2024 Report Posted November 24, 2024 12 hours ago, DUI_Offender said: The UN has done a lot of good in the World. Korea Yugoslavia etc. They just have not been effective in the past 20 years. Sure they have, just don't try to tell that to Israel's more rabid supporters...or detractors. It's like David Frum says about democracy and certain Republicans - when democracy doesn't work the way they like they abandon it. The same has been true of the UN for decades and now NATO is a similarly eschewed institution destined for the same fate. 1 Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Army Guy Posted November 25, 2024 Report Posted November 25, 2024 21 hours ago, eyeball said: Someone important must have thought Canada would benefit by joining when it meant Jewish refugees would go somewhere else. As you should know by now Canada was instrumental in formulating the UN plan used to partition Palestinians from Jewish refugees. So did the United Nations General Assembly become useless in your opinion before it passed Resolution 194 or after? It has been a shell of an organization for decades...Has the UN ever had power to shape the globe....or is it just another political forum where stuff goes to be discussed and die a slow death....The World courts has been proven ineffective as Joe Biden tells the world mess with the Israelis PM and face the sanctions or more of the US....i think that says it all don't you....tell me what benefits Canada gets from the UN other than a bill at the end of the year... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted November 25, 2024 Report Posted November 25, 2024 12 hours ago, ExFlyer said: Cannot answer that but both conservatives and liberals have tried hard and lobbied extensively to become a member to the Security Council again. Canada pays the UN but not as much as it used to (as with so many international commitments). Canada was really involved in peacekeeping but it has not been so in recent years. Why do we want a seat at the Security Council table? Well, both the conservative and liberal governments would have to explain that to you. We lost our seat in 2000 and never got it back. As for the viability of the UN, well, it is a large international organization and it does good in many areas. Not defending but also not diminishing it. I would agree that perhaps our government see a political value in it, but i think most Canadians will agree we can't even get our Poop together in our own country, why do we feel the need to get involved in global problems... We give away a lot of tax dollars to useless causes Un is one but many...And Justin was pretty excited to announce "Canada is back Baby" to the entire Un assembly, eager to take on UN missions...Just another failed promise by this government We should focus on Canada , and get our poop in a pile...worry about global issues to the big boys for now... Sorry i can't find one good thing the UN has done, it has more failures than good at a boys moments. It certainly can't peace keep, nor can it be counted on to educate and feed and provide medical support to, the palestinian people... , has it ever solved global starvation....I think the red cross has done more with less. ever wonder why we don't see kids gathering money up during halloween, becasue it did not go to where it was needed....In Bosnia, the UN warehouse was next to a major Canadian supply point, the locals that ran it drove very expensive land rovers, and sold food out of the back of those trucks that were supposed to be given to the people for free...these are not one of but rather very common.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
ExFlyer Posted November 25, 2024 Report Posted November 25, 2024 9 hours ago, Army Guy said: I would agree that perhaps our government see a political value in it, but i think most Canadians will agree we can't even get our Poop together in our own country, why do we feel the need to get involved in global problems... We give away a lot of tax dollars to useless causes Un is one but many...And Justin was pretty excited to announce "Canada is back Baby" to the entire Un assembly, eager to take on UN missions...Just another failed promise by this government We should focus on Canada , and get our poop in a pile...worry about global issues to the big boys for now... Sorry i can't find one good thing the UN has done, it has more failures than good at a boys moments. It certainly can't peace keep, nor can it be counted on to educate and feed and provide medical support to, the palestinian people... , has it ever solved global starvation....I think the red cross has done more with less. ever wonder why we don't see kids gathering money up during halloween, becasue it did not go to where it was needed....In Bosnia, the UN warehouse was next to a major Canadian supply point, the locals that ran it drove very expensive land rovers, and sold food out of the back of those trucks that were supposed to be given to the people for free...these are not one of but rather very common.... I agree with your sentiments. We do give our money to what I believe are useless reasons but, political reasons are not transparent to us mere mortals LOL We rarefy know or understand why our governments give to whomever they decide. I also think we can use that money should be usediinternally. Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
eyeball Posted November 25, 2024 Report Posted November 25, 2024 14 hours ago, Army Guy said: Sorry i can't find one good thing the UN has done Except the creation of Israel. But of course that was the League of Nations so that's like comparing night and day...right and wrong...good and evil...us and them...ad nauseum... How convenient. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
CaringCdn Posted November 25, 2024 Report Posted November 25, 2024 I agree that the UN is corrupt & Canada should have no part in it. What do we get in return anyway? As one poster previously stated: "one vote!!" Big deal. It's also true that most of the countries that belong to the UN are from dictatorial countries. Some of the positions that were appointed believed the total opposite of the department they were assigned to. As an example, if someone from Afghanistan is appointed to "women's affairs." If that isn't an oxymoron, I don't know what is and that is exactly what happens currently in the U.N. I believe the whole organization could be or should be kyboshed or at the very least, cleaned-up with some countries no longer members. As for Israel, I support them completely. They were the ones attacked & are entitled to defend themselves. Since the country is so small, they MUST - they have no choice - but to defeat HAMAS & Hezbullah as best they can in order to continue to survive. Hamas & Hezbullah want genocide not the Israeli's. Israel just wants to be left alone. For whatever reason, (must go back to the bible) Jews have always come under fire and no matter what good they do in the world, they're still vilified mostly unnecessarily. Are they perfect? Are you? The answer to both is of course not and no one is. But for the most part, Israel does it's absolute best to save civilians from being killed, usually by warning them before attacking which, of course, is an advantage to her enemies. No other country was expected to go to this extent but again, for whatever reason, Israel must and does so willingly. If Hamas & Hezbullah put down their weapons today, there would be peace in the M.E. But their hatred for Jews is so visceral because they're taught from a very young age that Jews are pigs et al., it's hard to try to make them understand that they have more in common than not. They are blinded by their hatred so how anyone or any country can "plow" through that hatred, I have no clue. My prayer is that there is someone out there who can figure it out. 1 Quote
Army Guy Posted November 25, 2024 Report Posted November 25, 2024 1 hour ago, eyeball said: Except the creation of Israel. But of course that was the League of Nations so that's like comparing night and day...right and wrong...good and evil...us and them...ad nauseum... How convenient. Then please inform this group just what has the UN done that benefits Canada, or the globe and we can discuss those merits....i ask becasue the only thing you bring up is the creation of Israel as the one and only mistake...yet fail to mention all the other nations that were created as a result of different mandates that resulted after the ottoman empire collapse...most of the current middle east countries were created within the same time period...Did you forget that, or you just hate the fact the Jews were given the smallest chunk of land almost as an after thought...or maybe you just don't like jews... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
eyeball Posted November 26, 2024 Report Posted November 26, 2024 3 hours ago, Army Guy said: Then please inform this group just what has the UN done that benefits Canada, or the globe and we can discuss those merits....i ask becasue the only thing you bring up is the creation of Israel as the one and only mistake... I think the UN has done lots of good things but you misunderstand what I'm saying - that according to you the only good thing the UN has done was to create Israel. It's ironic as all get go of course that the first initial benefit to Canada was a lot less Jews, which is certainly what the main architect of the plan to partition Palestine had at the back of his mind. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Army Guy Posted November 26, 2024 Report Posted November 26, 2024 (edited) 23 hours ago, eyeball said: I think the UN has done lots of good things but you misunderstand what I'm saying - that according to you the only good thing the UN has done was to create Israel. It's ironic as all get go of course that the first initial benefit to Canada was a lot less Jews, which is certainly what the main architect of the plan to partition Palestine had at the back of his mind. I never said that the only good thing the UN did was the creation of Israel...i think your confused...You should be able to name on good thing that the Un has done... Edited November 26, 2024 by Army Guy Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
eyeball Posted November 27, 2024 Report Posted November 27, 2024 15 minutes ago, Army Guy said: I never said that the only good thing the UN did was the creation of Israel...i think your confused...You should be able to name on good thing that the Un has done... Peacekeeping, disaster relief, the coordination of co-operative international effort. Global communism I guess you'd call it. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Army Guy Posted November 27, 2024 Report Posted November 27, 2024 49 minutes ago, eyeball said: Peacekeeping, disaster relief, the coordination of co-operative international effort. Global communism I guess you'd call it. Name one successful peace keeping mission that the UN ran, i don't think there is one, disaster relief, red cross does a better job...UN has no power to enforce anything, be it peace keeping or providing aid, it has been a total failure in GAZA UNRWA has assisted and taken part in Terrorist activates... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
eyeball Posted November 27, 2024 Report Posted November 27, 2024 14 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Name one successful peace keeping mission that the UN ran, i don't think there is one, disaster relief, red cross does a better job...UN has no power to enforce anything, be it peace keeping or providing aid, it has been a total failure in GAZA UNRWA has assisted and taken part in Terrorist activates... Okay...in the meantime what is the one thing you do think the UN got right? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
blackbird Posted November 27, 2024 Author Report Posted November 27, 2024 (edited) The U.N. was an abysmal failure in Rwanda as they were there and watched a huge genocide take place right in front of their eyes but stood back and did nothing. The U.N. did not give them the necessary soldiers to maintain peace and prevent genocide. This probably caused Canadian military officer Romeo Dellaire lifelong PTSD or grief since that time. He was powerless to do anything about it. I think he even wrote a book about it. "Seeing the situation in Rwanda deteriorating rapidly, Dallaire pleaded for logistical support and reinforcements of 2,000 soldiers for UNAMIR; he estimated that a total of 5,000 well-equipped troops would give the UN enough leverage to put an end to the killings. The UN Security Council refused, partly due to US opposition. US policy on interventions had become skeptical following the death of several U.S. soldiers in Mogadishu, Somalia the year before; this new policy was outlined in Presidential Decision Directive 25 by President Clinton. The Security Council voted to reduce UNAMIR further to 270 troops [1]" Roméo Dallaire - Wikipedia Edited November 27, 2024 by blackbird Quote
ironstone Posted November 27, 2024 Report Posted November 27, 2024 This is what they are teaching at UNRWA schools. Check out what this obviously well-fed boy is saying. Why on earth do we fund this hatred? Quote "Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." Thomas Sowell
eyeball Posted November 27, 2024 Report Posted November 27, 2024 1 hour ago, ironstone said: This is what they are teaching at UNRWA schools. Check out what this obviously well-fed boy is saying. Why on earth do we fund this hatred? Israel's kids are taught to hate Palestinians too. Why on Earth should that be anymore acceptable? Look for something like Israel's kids taught to hate Palestinians into your search engine and go see for yourself. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
ironstone Posted November 27, 2024 Report Posted November 27, 2024 1 minute ago, eyeball said: Israel's kids are taught to hate Palestinians too. Why on Earth should that be anymore acceptable? Look for something like Israel's kids taught to hate Palestinians into your search engine and go see for yourself. If they are, that would be the exception and not the rule. And it is unacceptable. Why does the left turn a blind eye to the curriculum in Gaza? Why does the left in general turn a blind eye to the poor human rights record of the Arab League? Quote "Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." Thomas Sowell
eyeball Posted November 27, 2024 Report Posted November 27, 2024 8 minutes ago, ironstone said: If they are, that would be the exception and not the rule. And it is unacceptable. I agree, it's wrong when anyone does it. 10 minutes ago, ironstone said: 1. Why does the left turn a blind eye to the curriculum in Gaza? 2. Why does the left in general turn a blind eye to the poor human rights record of the Arab League? 1. Probably the same reason the right turns a blind eye to the curriculum in Israel. It's understandable if not regrettable. 2. Same as above. Unfortunately for us in the west we've decided this is strictly a right vs left issue. It's no surprise to me that seeing eye to eye on anything is virtually impossible and probably even undesirable. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Army Guy Posted November 27, 2024 Report Posted November 27, 2024 1 hour ago, eyeball said: Israel's kids are taught to hate Palestinians too. Why on Earth should that be anymore acceptable? Look for something like Israel's kids taught to hate Palestinians into your search engine and go see for yourself. They don't need to be taught hatred in school it is everywhere in your day to day life, when you drive by a terrorist attack, that happens on a regular basis...your parents teach their kids not to go near the borders or Palestinians for fear of getting killed...getting woke up at 3 am from air raid sirens, Having someone close to you get killed in a terrorist attack....almost everyone openly carries long guns, both on duty or off duty, go to have a coffee and carry an m-16 becasue it is the fashion in Israel now....having to go down stairs into the air raid shelter, or their own safe room....how many Canadian homes have reinforced safe rooms to escape terrorist....not many....Everyone sees and breaths hate from the minute your born to the second you die.... UNRWA is a UN organization, that teaches this hate, Canadian tax dollars funds this stuff, and everyone turns a blind eye...we continue to fund this terrorism.... 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted November 27, 2024 Report Posted November 27, 2024 20 hours ago, eyeball said: Okay...in the meantime what is the one thing you do think the UN got right? They've had a lot of good ideas, and put in place many good policies and treaties, but none of them have worked out in the long run, like Human rights in 1948...and yet here in Canada a western nation, we still have problems with basic human rights, take a look at our native population the last residential school close in the mid 70's. One can only imigine what other 3 rd world countries human rights abuses were taken place...The list goes on and on , they are just words on paper, UN has no way to enforce any of it... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
NAME REMOVED Posted November 28, 2024 Report Posted November 28, 2024 (edited) On 11/25/2024 at 11:32 AM, eyeball said: Except the creation of Israel. But of course that was the League of Nations so that's like comparing night and day...right and wrong...good and evil...us and them...ad nauseum... How convenient. Actually, that was the UN. I think the first acts of the United Nations was to try and resolve the conflicts in Germany (USA vs Soviet Union), Palestine (UN Partition 1947), and South Asia (partition of India, and the creation of the Muslim states). For all their faults, I hope the UN does not go the way of the League of Nations, however I am not optimistic. Edited November 28, 2024 by DUI_Offender Quote
Gaétan Posted November 28, 2024 Report Posted November 28, 2024 On 11/21/2024 at 8:31 PM, blackbird said: The U.N. and its associated organizations have a long history of anti-semitism and anti Israel resolutions. Everything they do is automatically anti Israel and has no credibility. The United Nations had sympathy for the Jews and gave them this country, but he acted as a persecutor and therefore cannot have any sympathy from the United Nations. Is it fair that a people who are committing genocide should have any sympathy? I advise you to consult a psychologist. Quote
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