Are you a man or a woman?

[User]

3 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

Uh, why would they lie? If someone tells you who they are, believe them.

Who said it has to be a lie?

That is irrelevant to the point. 

3 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

Well, this has nothing to do with the identity of a living person...

It has to do with your claim about the "science"

4 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

This is such a ridiculous question, it does not deserve an answer.

What happened to believing someone when they tell you who they are?

[Radiorum]

2 minutes ago, User said:

Who said it has to be a lie?

That is irrelevant to the point. 

No, that is the point. What are you suggesting - a mass delusion?

 

3 minutes ago, User said:

It has to do with your claim about the "science"

I don't see how.

 

3 minutes ago, User said:

What happened to believing someone when they tell you who they are?

There is a biological pathway that makes transgenderism possible.

There is not a biological pathway to making a person think they are a cat.

[User]

3 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

No, that is the point. What are you suggesting - a mass delusion?

No, what it was rightly considered before it was turned into another branch of the LGBTQ mafia... a mental disorder. 

That aside, it is also a social contagion because folks like you push this madness onto vulnerable children and convince them they are something they are not. Then, when they get older and outgrow their puberty and body image issues, they realize they were abused and were never trans to begin with. 

And the point being discussed was that you said this was the science. Science is something that can be tested. It is not based on if someone tells you, believe them. 

6 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

I don't see how.

You were the one who claimed it was science... so, what is the science beyond believing someone here in determining someones brain is the opposite of their biological sex?

7 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

There is a biological pathway that makes transgenderism possible.

There is not a biological pathway to making a person think they are a cat.

What is the biology? You have offered nothing more than to believe people. 

Apparently, you don't really want to believe people anymore. 

 

 

 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Radiorum said:

What I disagreed with is that it was coined only to protect feelings. it is an accurate term.

 

It was entirely coined because of feelings. And everybody knows it and everybody has been telling you this. The quote provided from the person who invented it absolutely demonstrates this.

And it is not 'accurate'. It's a term that someone shoehorned in to try to get it to fit without using the word 'normal'. 

What's really galling is that you would even attempt to use "it's accurate" as an argument considering you're trying to claim that calling a biological man a man is offensive despite the fact that it's as accurate as you can get. 

[Scott75]

On 11/16/2024 at 10:06 AM, Deluge said:

On 11/16/2024 at 4:41 AM, phoenyx75 said:

On 11/10/2024 at 9:12 PM, Deluge said:

1. I don't have a high opinion of YOUR sources, for sure.

Oh, that's a given, but you apparently don't even have a high opinion of your own. You say things like "You've been given links" and suggest I haven't gone through them, but when I challenge you on your assertion, you say that it "doesn't matter anymore." I suspect it never did. I suspect your primary source is your own opinion, objective evidence be damned.

Your challenges are now irrelevant, phoenix75. You presented your cases and they've been shut down by the voters of this country.

First of all, it's phoenyx75, with a y, not an i. I'm honestly thinking it might be better to just switch to the name I use in 'real life', if that's an option. I've done this in another forum I'm in.

Secondly, I'm guessing that by "this country", you mean the U.S.? If so, the fact that Trump was elected doesn't mean that debates on things to do with transgenderism and other LGBTQ issues is over. Furthermore, people didn't just vote for Trump because of his stance on LGBTQ issues. Trump has a lot of stances. Some I even agree with, such as his stance to stop helping Ukraine bomb Russia.

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

First of all, it's phoenyx75, with a y, not an i. I'm honestly thinking it might be better to just switch to the name I use in 'real life', if that's an option. I've done this in another forum I'm in.

 

You've already got two accounts here, you certainly could start a third and just go with that if you wanted and shut this one down. It's not like you've had it here for years or something

[Scott75]

On 11/16/2024 at 10:21 AM, Deluge said:

On 11/16/2024 at 4:58 AM, phoenyx75 said:

On 11/10/2024 at 9:12 PM, Deluge said:

On 11/9/2024 at 8:13 PM, phoenyx75 said:

On 11/8/2024 at 12:17 PM, Deluge said:

The key now is to get the trannies, and all the other radical activists, back in their lane so America can recover from the woke infection. 

I'm sure the KKK said similar things about black people back in the day too. It's so easy to just say that some other group is wrong and use whatever means is necessary to try to put them "back in their lane", as you say. What's hard is to actually try to understand the other group's reasoning.

The KKK hates black people and used to murder them, I just want the LGBT community to stay in their lane [snip]

Oh, they don't just hate blacks. Recently, they sometimes don't even mention that part:

**

June 18, 2021

by Ben Cohen

Police in Virginia are investigating a series of violently antisemitic and homophobic flyers targeting a local school board that were distributed by a white supremacist group affiliated with the Ku Klux Klan (KKK).

Flyers denouncing the school board in Fairfax, Va., as “Jew-inspired, communist, qu*er-loving sex fiends violating the words of the Holy Bible” were discovered on Wednesday, ahead of the board’s meeting on Thursday night. The flyers carried the insignia of the “Loyal White Knights,” one of several groups around the country that compose the organized KKK movement, along with the warning that “Yahweh is Watching!”

**

Source:

Ku Klux Klan Fanatics Distribute Antisemitic, Homophobic Flyers Targeting School Board in Virginia | The Algemeiner

It certainly looks like in some ways, you might fit right in.

Personal attacks, the last bastion of those who have no substantive argument to make.

The KKK never did have a bright outlook on things - poor bastards.

On this, at least, we agree.

On 11/16/2024 at 10:21 AM, Deluge said:

It's interesting that you try to lump me in with white supremacy groups when I'm fighting for ALL citizens, not just the special interest groups. 

What's your reasoning? 

If you look at the nested quotes in the first part of this post, you'll see that I first brought up the KKK after you'd said "The key now is to get the trannies, and all the other radical activists, back in their lane so America can recover from the woke infection." You may not be aware of the fact, but the term tranny is a slur. Wikipedia spells it out:

**

Tranny is an offensive and derogatory slur for a transgender individual,^[1] often specifically a transgender woman.^[2]

During the early 2000s, there was some confusion and debate over whether the term was considered as a slur, was considered acceptable, or a reappropriated term of unity and pride, but by 2017, the term had been banned by several major media stylebooks and was considered hate speech by Facebook.^[3][4]

**

Source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tranny

 

The KKK and other groups of this nature also use coded language on those who they dislike. There's an article that delves into how politicians use coded language to appeal to those who dislike various groups, from blacks to the LGBTQ community. It can be seen here:

https://www.vox.com/2016/2/1/10889138/coded-language-thug-bossy

 

[Scott75]

On 11/16/2024 at 10:53 AM, Deluge said:

On 11/16/2024 at 5:09 AM, phoenyx75 said:

A biological woman can't procreate without a biological man's sperm. But for people who define men and women as people who identify as such, a woman could in fact procreate with another woman's sperm- it's just that this other woman would have to biologically be a man and identify as a woman. This actually turned into a real life issue not too long ago:

N.J. trans prisoner who impregnated 2 inmates transferred to men's facility | NBC News

There are certainly laws of nature, but those laws don't include words. Words are defined by groups of people and can mean whatever said groups want them to mean.

And the majority of US citizens want the words male and female to be according to their biological sexes.

First of all, do you have evidence that this is true? Secondly, even if it was true, there's clearly a sizeable part of the population, myself included, that believes that there should be a distinction made between a person's gender and a person's biological sex. This part of the population clearly has some clout, or there wouldn't be cases like the one I described above.

On 11/16/2024 at 10:53 AM, Deluge said:

But that's the beauty of living in a free country. You have the right to fight biology, and I have the right to fight for biology. It's unfortunate that it has to be this way, but some of you just can't sit still and be normal.  

First of all, no one is fighting biology here. The issue is how we're defining words. As to normality, I decided to look into the term and decided that what best describes what you're talking about are social norms. I found some interesting points in Wikipedia's article on the term. This one, for instance:

**

Three stages have been identified in the life cycle of a norm: (1) Norm emergence – norm entrepreneurs seek to persuade others of the desirability and appropriateness of certain behaviors; (2) Norm cascade – when a norm obtains broad acceptance; and (3) Norm internalization – when a norm acquires a "taken-for-granted" quality.^[7] 

**

 

This part too:

**

Deviance also causes multiple emotions one experiences when going against a norm. One of those emotions widely attributed to deviance is guilt. Guilt is connected to the ethics of duty which in turn becomes a primary object of moral obligation. 

**

 

That, in turn, leads to unfortunate things such as this:

**

Moretz has publicly supported LGBT equality.^[84] Moretz, who is gay, also has two gay brothers; Moretz states they had initially tried to "pray the gay away" to appease their community.^[85]

**

Source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloë_Grace_Moretz

[Scott75]

On 11/16/2024 at 1:40 PM, User said:

On 11/16/2024 at 4:58 AM, phoenyx75 said:

On 11/10/2024 at 9:12 PM, Deluge said:

and YOU are a troll.

Personal attacks, the last bastion of those who have no substantive argument to make.

Is this a joke? You just got done saying the poster would fit right in with KKK.

No, I didn't. Deluge used a term that is generally considered to be a slur for transgender people and I pointed out that the KKK tend to use slur terms for people they dislike as well. Deluge, on the other hand, clearly used an insulting term on me. 

[Scott75]

On 11/16/2024 at 11:44 AM, CdnFox said:

On 11/16/2024 at 4:41 AM, phoenyx75 said:

On 11/10/2024 at 9:12 PM, Deluge said:

I don't have a high opinion of YOUR sources, for sure.

Oh, that's a given, but you apparently don't even have a high opinion of your own. You say things like "You've been given links" and suggest I haven't gone through them, but when I challenge you on your assertion, you say that it "doesn't matter anymore." I suspect it never did. I suspect your primary source is your own opinion, objective evidence be damned.

Do people are just sick of dealing with your dishonesty.

I'm going to assume you meant something like "Dude" instead of "Do". Anyway, you haven't provided any evidence that I've been dishonest.

On 11/16/2024 at 11:44 AM, CdnFox said:

It doesn't matter anymore because you don't matter.

Personally, I think that everyone matters, even people like you who say things like this.

On 11/16/2024 at 11:44 AM, CdnFox said:

You're just a dishonest sack of crap and nobody's that interested in playing your troll games.

These ad hominem attacks of yours are a real disgrace. 

[Scott75]

On 11/16/2024 at 1:43 PM, User said:

On 11/16/2024 at 5:09 AM, phoenyx75 said:

A biological woman can't procreate without a biological man's sperm. But for people who define men and women as people who identify as such, a woman could in fact procreate with another woman's sperm- it's just that this other woman would have to biologically be a man and identify as a woman. This actually turned into a real life issue not too long ago:

N.J. trans prisoner who impregnated 2 inmates transferred to men's facility | NBC News

There are certainly laws of nature, but those laws don't include words. Words are defined by groups of people and can mean whatever said groups want them to mean.

Like I said, you are the one creating this problem

What problem do you think I am creating?

[DUI_Offender]

 

[Scott75]

On 12/14/2024 at 8:22 AM, Nationalist said:

On 12/14/2024 at 6:59 AM, phoenyx75 said:

You keep on saying things like "the vast majority", but you haven't actually shown me any statistics as to how many people mind trans people just saying that they are the gender that they identify with. The main issue is that there is a fair amount of transgender inequality. Wikipedia has a helpful article on the subject, I'll quote its introduction below:

**

Transgender inequality is the unequal protection received by transgender people in work, school, and society in general. Transgender people regularly face transphobic harassment. Ultimately, one of the largest reasons that transgender people face inequality is due to a lack of public understanding of transgender people.^[1]

Anti-transgender stigma leads to employment discrimination, exclusion from healthcare, and increased risks of poverty and homelessness, which in turn correspond to greater risks of fatal violence.^[2] Abuse and murder of transgender people is pervasive;^[3][4] in November 2021, "2021 was the deadliest year...of anti-transgender violence in the United States."^[5] Those who have died as a result of transphobia are commonly remembered on Transgender Day of Remembrance.^[6][7][8]

**

Full article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_inequality

 

I don't know anyone who has died to to anti-transgender violence, but I did meet a trans man who had a very severe limp. I noticed the limp when a men's group I was in were going for something to eat. When I asked him how he got that limp, he told me he'd been severely beaten for being transgender. So as you can see, there are -very- good reasons why trans people would want to hide the fact that they're trans from most people, as anti-transgender violence is a very real thing. 

If you think you can rid society of such acts, you're barking up the wrong tree. We don't know the circumstances that lead to such beatings, but I'd say they are probably instinctual in nature.

I actually spent a good amount of time just now trying to figure out the main causes of violence against the transgender community. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find much. Here's perhaps the best of what I could find:

**

Harassment and violence

Main article: Violence against transgender people

The stigma against transgender people often results in physical violence or bodily harm, sexual violence or assault, and verbal or emotional abuse.^[38] Transgender individuals are at increased risk for experiencing aggression and violence throughout their life when compared to cisgender individuals, especially when it comes to sexual violence.^[39] Other kinds of abuse include bullying, harassment, and multiple forms of discrimination.^[40] Abuse against transgender people can come from many different sources, including family and friends, partners, co-workers and acquaintances, strangers, and the police, and the abuse can occur at each developmental stage in life.^[39]

As homophobia and transphobia are correlated, many trans people experience homophobia and heterosexism due to people who associate trans people's gender identity with homosexuality, or because trans people may also have a sexual orientation that is non-heterosexual.^[4][41][5] Author Thomas Spijkerboer [Wikidata] stated that "transgender people subjected to violence, in a range of cultural contexts, frequently report that transphobic violence is expressed in homophobic terms."^[5]

**

Source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transphobia

[Scott75]

On 12/14/2024 at 9:58 AM, User said:

On 12/14/2024 at 6:59 AM, phoenyx75 said:

On 11/11/2024 at 8:23 AM, User said:

You don't seem to care at all about the vast majority of people who define the terms as they actually are and instead want to create a new term for them.

You keep on saying things like "the vast majority", but you haven't actually shown me any statistics as to how many people mind trans people just saying that they are the gender that they identify with. The main issue is that there is a fair amount of transgender inequality.

I don't have to show you statistics...

That's certainly true. Ofcourse, assertions without hard evidence are frequently not very credible. 

On 12/14/2024 at 9:58 AM, User said:

When you go fill out forms for male or female, there is no standard box for cis as you are arguing for now.

You seem to think that because there is no standard box for cis in forms, this means that the vast majority of people would mind trans people saying they are the gender they identify with. If that is what you're suggesting, you've presented no evidence for this.

[Scott75]

On 12/14/2024 at 9:58 AM, User said:

On 12/14/2024 at 6:59 AM, phoenyx75 said:

So as you can see, there are -very- good reasons why trans people would want to hide the fact that they're trans from most people, as anti-transgender violence is a very real thing. 

So... if you change all normal people to cisgender and then label all trans people as male and female... everyone will know they are trans still. 

This isn't about changing anyone, this is about what labels we use for different categories of people. Secondly, I'm not advocating that terms like cisgender be used all the time, quite the reverse, I think they should be used sparingly, in situations where knowing whether someone is cisgender or transgender is important. The same goes for people who are transgender. In other cases, simply using the gender a person identifies with is sufficient.

[DUI_Offender]

I never have understood this animosity towards Transgenders for the past 5 years. Personally, I have met a handful of transgenders, but otherwise, it is a nothing burger. I don't have a strong opinion either way. I am also not influenced by ridiculous propaganda. Transgender people are not "grooming children in schools."  In fact, I have never known any Transgenders in powerful positions.

What I do know, is that the tactics of the MAGA clan to vilify this group of people that makes up roughly 0.5% of the population is eerily reminiscent of what Germany did to it's Jewish population (0.9% of the population) in the 1930s.

[Michael Hardner]

38 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

 

What I do know, is that the tactics of the MAGA clan to vilify this group of people that makes up roughly 0.5% of the population is eerily reminiscent of what Germany did to it's Jewish population (0.9% of the population) in the 1930s.

It's an old tactic.

They start with a common, gut-level disgust and revulsion about some group then play up their impact and influence, even suggesting a conspiracy.

They never engage in a rational discussion of rights, or trade-offs.

 

[User]

3 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

I never have understood this animosity towards Transgenders for the past 5 years.

Well, I have explained this to you several times now. 

At this point, this continues to be nothing more than your dishonest ploy to feign ignorance and avoid the cold, hard reality. 

It's a lot harder for you to sit here justifying grown-ass men dancing like strippers in front of little kids, the parents, and schools that are pushing this on them. It's a lot harder for you to sit here justifying drugging and butchering children. It's a lot harder for you to sit here justifying that women and girls are forced to compete against men in physical sports unfairly. It's a lot harder for you to sit here justifying that women and girls should be OK with a naked man in their bathrooms/personal spaces. 

So... you play these dumb games and pretend like you don't know any of this and then lie as if we give a crap that men want to play dress up and act like women with each other at some gay bar like they have been doing for decades now. 

 

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

They never engage in a rational discussion of rights, or trade-offs.

Well, first, you would have to be honest about the issue. Instead, you want to pretend like it isn't happening. 

 

[User]

4 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

No, I didn't. Deluge used a term that is generally considered to be a slur for transgender people and I pointed out that the KKK tend to use slur terms for people they dislike as well. Deluge, on the other hand, clearly used an insulting term on me. 

Yes, you went on to say exactly that:

"It certainly looks like in some ways, you might fit right in."

[User]

3 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

This isn't about changing anyone, this is about what labels we use for different categories of people. Secondly, I'm not advocating that terms like cisgender be used all the time, quite the reverse, I think they should be used sparingly, in situations where knowing whether someone is cisgender or transgender is important. The same goes for people who are transgender. In other cases, simply using the gender a person identifies with is sufficient.

Yes, you certainly are trying to change normal people to be labeled cisgender. The fact that you want to limit the circumstances doesn't change any of the reasons I just outlined for why it is silly and nonsensical. 

 

3 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

You seem to think that because there is no standard box for cis in forms, this means that the vast majority of people would mind trans people saying they are the gender they identify with. If that is what you're suggesting, you've presented no evidence for this.

You are conflating two different things: Calling normal people cis, and having a problem with trans people calling themselves male or female. 

Show me the evidence you have for why this is a problem that needs to be solved with calling normal people cis. 

You have presented none. 

[User]

4 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

What problem do you think I am creating?

Oh, OK. So you don't think there is a problem that requires calling normal people cis now. Great. Glad you agree. 

[Nationalist]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

It's an old tactic.

They start with a common, gut-level disgust and revulsion about some group then play up their impact and influence, even suggesting a conspiracy.

They never engage in a rational discussion of rights, or trade-offs.

 

That's bullsh1t and you know it. Stop fcking around with the truth Mike.

We do not introduce pornography to children.!

THAT is our main issue. We also do not like men competing in women's sports, and the idea that a man or woman can magically become the opposite "gender" simply by claiming so, is just more bullsh1t.

Other than these common sense objections...fill ur boots.

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

1. That's bullsh1t and you know it. Stop fcking around with the truth Mike.

2. We do not introduce pornography to children.

 

1. What is?  My explanation of how propaganda works?  Look it up.

2. Who is "we"?  Pedophiles? Scout Leaders and priests?  You're doing exactly what I said...

Nothing more to be said.

 

[User]

19 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Nothing more to be said.

Oh, I am sure you will pretend like you don't know what we are talking about in many more threads. You will decry the culture wars only when we fight back, and ignore children being butchered and coerced into being butchered, drugged, and given "gender affirming" care... 

 

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, User said:

...ignore children being butchered and coerced into being butchered, drugged, and given "gender affirming" care... 

 

Lies and lies and propaganda... 

You're convincing no one.

Enjoy your pastime.