Are you a man or a woman?

[Nationalist]

39 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I think that may be true, or perhaps may have been true when it was a question of going forward or going backward. 

There's no going backward today. 

There are far too many changes in the political landscape to undo.  There is no going back. 

So what is a conservative then? 

It is not a populist. For they want to Echo and amplify a chorus of complaints against the establishment. This used to be the main of the left, but it is not so today. 

It's not a capitalist, a corporatist, or a globalist. They are not interested in anything in the past, only the objectives of their Enterprise.

It's not a conservative Christian or fundamentalist of any faith.  What they would retain from the past just can't fly in a multipolar moral environments such as today, and in a multicultural population. 

To me, a conservative is someone who looks at the infrastructure of our collaborative politics and tries to move towards preserving and strengthening the principles that they have proven will help us in any future.

 

 

 

You may be right. Then again...

What does today's Conservative stand for? IMO...to conserve the "traditional" responsibilities and purpose of the institutions. To do away with the alteration of said institutions which has happened over the last 50 years and in particular, the last 20. To correct the warping that happened when Colin Powel sold lies to the UN, when Obama and Brandon warped the DOJ in order to charge General Flynn and destroy him utterly, to re-establish border security, to undo the abuses of Brandon's DOJ and FBI, and to restore a government of the people,  for the people.

THAT...Mike...is true Conservatism. However...in executing these goals, Conservatives will appear to be "attacking" the institutions Libbies have warped and they will fight to maintain...against the will of "we the people".

And this is why you are not really a Conservative. You argue for the "new normal", which is most certainly a Liberal ideal. Unfortunately...it's also very destructive to a stable society and now...

We the people see it for what it really is...

A lie formed to favour the institutions you covet.

[Michael Hardner]

4 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

 

1. What does today's Conservative stand for? IMO...to conserve the "traditional" responsibilities and purpose of the institutions. To do away with the alteration of said institutions which has happened over the last 50 years and in particular, the last 20. To correct the warping that happened when Colin Powel sold lies to the UN, when Obama and Brandon warped the DOJ in order to charge General Flynn and destroy him utterly, to re-establish border security, to undo the abuses of Brandon's DOJ and FBI, and to restore a government of the people,  for the people.

2. THAT...Mike...is true Conservatism. However...in executing these goals, Conservatives will appear to be "attacking" the institutions Libbies have warped and they will fight to maintain...against the will of "we the people".

3. And this is why you are not really a Conservative. You argue for the "new normal", which is most certainly a Liberal ideal. Unfortunately...it's also very destructive to a stable society and now...

4. We the people see it for what it really is... A lie formed to favour the institutions you covet.

1. Interesting.  I don't think a conservative would deny that institutions, or at least their public face, have had their mandates increased/changed.

2. "Will of the people" is indeterminate.  I don't think that there is a single will anymore, or at least there doesn't appear to be so.  My take is that people are not able to supplant moral differences, in the way they did with religions centuries ago.

3. Devil's in the details.  Calling for the FBI and IRS and NAFTA to be disbanded is also the new normal.  Is it conservative to want to get rid of those ?  I think it's radical.  Potatoe potato.

4. You can't lay claim to being 'the people' any more than I or my cat can.

[Scott75]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I think that may be true, or perhaps may have been true when it was a question of going forward or going backward. 

There's no going backward today. 

There are far too many changes in the political landscape to undo.  There is no going back. 

So what is a conservative then? 

It is not a populist. For they want to Echo and amplify a chorus of complaints against the establishment. This used to be the main of the left, but it is not so today. 

It's not a capitalist, a corporatist, or a globalist. They are not interested in anything in the past, only the objectives of their Enterprise.

It's not a conservative Christian or fundamentalist of any faith.  What they would retain from the past just can't fly in a multipolar moral environments such as today, and in a multicultural population. 

To me, a conservative is someone who looks at the infrastructure of our collaborative politics and tries to move towards preserving and strengthening the principles that they have proven will help us in any future.

By -that- definition, I would consider myself a conservative :-). I think your definition is basically conserving good values. 

[Scott75]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

And here's a listmus test: People who come here to broadcast their views rather than dialogue, who see this activity as a zero-sum game, do not believe in politics. 

They believe in entertainment. 

They are part of the problem, in that discussion at a low level is needed today. And they would rather play games. 

They are not conservative.

I don't know if anyone is here to play games. I -do- believe that when people start insulting a person's views or worse, the person themselves, that it greatly impedes any productive discussion. At that point, I don't care whether they are conservative, liberal or something else, the result for me is the same, the quality of the conversation goes down.

[User]

8 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

First of all, it's not my "dumb game". I'm just pointing out a fact. Secondly, I completely agree that not everyone defines male and female in the way that I and others do. If everyone did, I doubt we'd be having this debate to begin with. You may recall that in the post you were responding too, I was pointing out why your solution of just saying that "men are men" only works if everyone in a given audience agrees what a man is. Since there are clearly a fair amount of people (myself included) that now define men as people who identify as men, your solution won't work if anyone in a given audience has this definition, at least if you'd like to determine a person's biological sex.

Yes, this continues to be your dumb game. 

Even now... it is not my "solution" here. There is no problem. You are the one arguing there is a problem to solve. Not everyone uses "cis" as you want to do... nor do they agree with that label. So... again, your solution to your made-up problem has the exact same issues you claim exist for just calling men, men.

 

[User]

7 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

What assertions of mine do you believe I refuse to defend?

Try reading and responding to my whole comment next time:
 

 

[CdnFox]

9 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

 

Your latest unsubstantiated assertion made me smile. I believe Yoda said it well:

 

In other words I correctly pointed out Your hypocrisy And now you are buthurt and can't refute the point so for some reason you're going to resort to quoting Muppets. 

It's pretty obvious it didn't make you smile, and it's pretty obvious you're nothing but a useless con man, you're hypocrisy has been pointed out about a hundred times throughout this thread.

 

[CdnFox]

8 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

I think this statement is so obviously untrue that it's best to just quote it and let others decide for themselves who they want to believe.

They have. Look at their responses to you. They know that you can't defend your points, they note  that you're evasive, all you do is talk in lefty talking points and can't actually make an intelligent argument to save your life and everybody is pointing at it.

You put no thoughts into your post at all. You fancy yourself a bit of an intellectual wit but it's clear that your intellectual level is below average and certainly below the average of this board.

All you do is obfuscate now statements that do nothing to advance an actual argument and this post above is a perfect example

[Radiorum]

51 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

They have. Look at their responses to you. They know that you can't defend your points, they note  that you're evasive, all you do is talk in lefty talking points and can't actually make an intelligent argument to save your life and everybody is pointing at it.

You put no thoughts into your post at all. You fancy yourself a bit of an intellectual wit but it's clear that your intellectual level is below average and certainly below the average of this board.

All you do is obfuscate now statements that do nothing to advance an actual argument and this post above is a perfect example

 

Lol, the best defense is an offense ... but try making it believable next time. You're not fooling anyone.

 

 

“Cisgender” originated in the 1990s – coined by a biologist. As a scientific term, it merely means that the sexual identity of your body coincides with the sexual identity of your brain.

It appears that some cisgenders take offence to it, as if it is taking something away from them, some special categorization or privilege.

But of course, it doesn’t. It’s just another biological term used to describe a person.

I think at the root of all this anti-transgenderism is this feeling of being threatened by what you do not understand.

[CdnFox]

8 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

Lol, the best defense is an offense ... but try making it believable next time. You're not fooling anyone.nd.

First off, wrong account you forgot to switch  

Second off everybody already believes it. Like I said look at the comments. You can deny reality all you like but it's painfully obvious

 

 

 

Quote

 

“Cisgender” originated in the 1990s – coined by a biologist. As a scientific term, it merely means that the sexual identity of your body coincides with the sexual identity of your brain.

It appears that some cisgenders take offence to it, as if it is taking something away from them, some special categorization or privilege.

But of course, it doesn’t. It’s just another biological term used to describe a person.

I think at the root of all this anti-transgenderism is this feeling of being threatened by what you do not understa

 

And there's zero thought in that.

Not to mention the fact that it turns out to be inaccurate. It's just like the term woke, the term woke started as a relatively innocent phrase to describe a mental state but now is used as a pejorative. If somebody refers to you as woke you are probably going to be aware that they are not complimenting you.

Same with f ag. Came from a word that meant a stick of wood. Later became a slang term for a cigarette because it's a short stick of wood when you sort of think about it kind of   But nowadays we recognize that it's actually a pejorative term used to describe gay people in an unflattering way. Although they've taken the word back I'm sure you understand what I mean.

 

All you said is a bunch of nothing that dodges the issue, ignores the point, that's nothing to the conversation and just stupid. Which is also a relatively good description of you.

Did you think people here respected you, did you think that you were showing off your mental skills? Kid, you're coming across as dumber than a stamp hammer and nothing but a random collection of liberal and woke talking points but don't actually mean anything or have any substance

[Radiorum]

28 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

And there's zero thought in that.

I actually did think about it. 

28 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

All you said is a bunch of nothing that dodges the issue, ignores the point, that's nothing to the conversation and just stupid. Which is also a relatively good description of you.

Omg, you make me laugh so much. Tell me, are you in a basement?

 

29 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Did you think people here respected you, did you think that you were showing off your mental skills? Kid, you're coming across as dumber than a stamp hammer and nothing but a random collection of liberal and woke talking points but don't actually mean anything or have any substance

Just remember you exist because of people like me.

[Deluge]

4 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

I don't know if anyone is here to play games. I -do- believe that when people start insulting a person's views or worse, the person themselves, that it greatly impedes any productive discussion. At that point, I don't care whether they are conservative, liberal or something else, the result for me is the same, the quality of the conversation goes down.

No, the quality of the conversation drops when dishonesty makes its first appearance. 

Since I don't know at what point you entered this thread, I'm going to start at the beginning with you. 

First question: what choice did you make in this poll? 

Second question: What is your definition of a woman? 

[Deluge]

11 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

Change can certainly be painful at times. It reminds me of a quote from Frank Herbert that CdnFox really didn't like:

"Scratch a conservative and you find someone who prefers the past over any future."

I'm sure it's a bit of an exageration, but I think there is some truth to it. The thing is, times change and people need come to terms with this. I can certainly agree that times don't always change in a progressive manner, but I definitely think that in this case, it is indeed progressive.

It's a massive exaggeration. I'm always down for change if it's for the better. What you want is transsexualism everywhere, and that's not better for anyone. 

[Deluge]

12 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

The issue I was discussing with CdnFox was about his lack of control when it came to insulting people he disagrees with. I'm hardly the only person to point out his flame baiting posts. Radiorum made a good post on some of his many flame baiting remarks in post #502 in this thread. Michael Hardner alluded to CdnFox's unproductive discussion methods in post #549. The writing is really on the wall when it comes to many of CdnFox's posts.

As to your assertion that I'm "fighting for a group of people that deny their true sex", you seem to be assuming that all transgender people believe the same things. They don't. From what I've seen, most in the transgender community accept that their biological sex is not the same thing as the gender they associate with, which is why they are transgender instead of cisgender.

The insults come out AFTER deceptiveness. I insult people all the time, and it's almost always because the other person is lying or is perpetuating a lie. 

You're supporting the trans agenda, and that's wrong. If you want to play dress up and act like the opposite sex, then knock yourself out. Just keep that shit in your homes, or on private property.  

Edited December 15, 2024 by Deluge

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Radiorum said:

I actually did think about it. 

For your sake I honestly hope you're joking. If that's your idea of putting thought into something we have a lot of work to do

Quote

Omg, you make me laugh so much. Tell me, are you in a basement?

Every time you say something like that we can tell that you're actually crying. You're feeling hurt and dejected and you have no other way to respond so you pretend to laugh as a defense mechanism. And no, I own my own house and my own property. I actually do pretty good for myself.

Quote

Just remember you exist because of people like me.

People like you are largely irrelevant in my life. It's interesting to watch you flail around once in awhile.   and its amusing to watch you try to craft arguments to fit your narrative. 

But - To be honest you're not as entertaining as some of the low intellect left wingers we have here. Which i assure you is a compliment   And you're not the dumbest one by far, so when you make reasonable posts even when i disagree i usually go a little easy on you   You have at least some potential to get better and stronger when you're not acting like an !diot    

But this thread? Kid. You are impressing NOBODY with your performance here, with EITHER nickname.  You're certainly not the reason anyone exists  You're barely noticeable  

46 minutes ago, Deluge said:

The insults come out AFTER deceptiveness. I insult people all the time, and it's almost always because the other person is lying or is perpetuating a lie. 

You're supporting the trans agenda, and that's wrong. If you want to play dress up and act like the opposite sex, then knock yourself out. Just keep that shit in your homes, or on private property.  

exactly. Behave respectively get treated with respect. Behave like a tard and get treated with derision and mockery   

[Radiorum]

8 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Every time you say something like that we can tell that you're actually crying. You're feeling hurt and dejected and you have no other way to respond so you pretend to laugh as a defense mechanism.

"That'll be 5 cents please," said CdnFox

 

9 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

People like you are largely irrelevant in my life.

Your posting history screams otherwise.

 

 

 

[User]

2 hours ago, Radiorum said:

“Cisgender” originated in the 1990s – coined by a biologist. As a scientific term, it merely means that the sexual identity of your body coincides with the sexual identity of your brain.

Yeah, some graduate student came up with it to protect the feelings of trans people. 

So what?

Just because someone invents a word doesn't mean we all have to play along with the underlying stupidity of it. 

For 99% of people, even if I accept your nonsense about sexual identity of the brain for the sake of argument, their biological sex and brain sex match. We don't need a new term for 99% of the people to use to describe themselves. 

You want to change things for 99% to placate the 1%. 

No. 

Now, back to the stupidity of what you asserted there, the brain IS part of the body and you have no scientific basis from which to claim the brain is somehow the opposite gender of the body. 

If someone thinks they are a cat, are you now going to say their brain is a cats brain?

 

[Radiorum]

6 minutes ago, User said:

some graduate student came up with it to protect the feelings of trans people. 

false.

6 minutes ago, User said:

we all have to play along with the underlying stupidity of it. 

What you don't understand is scary, isn't it?

 

7 minutes ago, User said:

You want to change things

Ah, there it is. You're feeling threatened.

7 minutes ago, User said:

the brain IS part of the body and you have no scientific basis from which to claim the brain is somehow the opposite gender of the body. 

That the brain and the body sexually differentiate in separate and distinct processes is well established science.

Who you are is in your brain, not your  body.

[User]

3 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

false.

I swear... 

"I was in graduate school and writing a paper on the health of trans adolescents. I put a post on alt.transgender to ask for views on transphobia and inclusion on the campus of the University of Minnesota. I was struggling because there did not seem to be a way to describe people who were not transgender without inescapably couching them in normalcy and making transgender identity automatically the “other.”

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/what-cisgender-means-transgender_n_63e13ee0e4b01e9288730415

6 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

What you don't understand is scary, isn't it?

What is it you think I don't understand here?

6 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

Ah, there it is. You're feeling threatened.

Well, you can't win this discussion with good argument, reason, or facts... so trying to attack my feelings is what you are left with. 

7 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

That the brain and the body sexually differentiate in separate and distinct processes is well established science.

Who you are is in your brain, not your  body.

No, it is not well-established science at all. 

[CdnFox]

30 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

"That'll be 5 cents please," said CdnFox

 

You're easy to read, but now it's my fault   LOLOL

 

Quote

Your posting history screams otherwise.

If you're hearing screaming, chances are it's the voices in your head again. That'll be another five cents please  

There are many things that are irrelevant in people's lives that they choose to pay attention to because of entertainment or other similar circumstances.

In other words I'm trying nicely to say that you're funny to watch  You're kind of like the modern day equivalent of brine shrimp.

[Radiorum]

23 minutes ago, User said:

I swear... 

What I disagreed with is that it was coined only to protect feelings. it is an accurate term.

24 minutes ago, User said:

What is it you think I don't understand here?

 

24 minutes ago, User said:

No, it is not well-established science at all. 

 

The science.

[User]

4 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

What I disagreed with is that it was coined only to protect feelings. it is an accurate term.

I swear...

"I was struggling because there did not seem to be a way to describe people who were not transgender without inescapably couching them in normalcy and making transgender identity automatically the “other.”"

The term is not "accurate", it is just made up. 

Also, if you want to say something specifically is not accurate, next time do so, instead of just saying false to the whole statement and then backpedaling after you were called out for being wrong. 

 

7 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

The science.

What science is it?

Just saying science doesn't say anything. 

 

[Radiorum]

5 minutes ago, User said:

What science is it?

Both our bodies and our brains are dimorphic (differentiate to male or female). But the developmental processes that differentiate a body and differentiate a brain are two different processes.

In the first trimester of pregnancy, the body sexually differentiates under the influence of genes – and either testes or ovaries develop.

During the last trimester of pregnancy, the brain sexually differentiates under the influence of genes and hormones – and either a male or female brain develops.

Usually, these two processes are coincident – (male body + male brain or female body + female brain) and a cisgender person is born.

But sometimes, the brain develops the opposite gender from the body – (male body + female brain or female body + male brain) and a transgender person is born.

You can read about this online for free in the chapter The Biological Basis of Gender Incongruence in the book Human Sexuality

[User]

11 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

You can read about this online for free in the chapter

Did you even read this?

These are hypotheses, not any proven science. Even the source you provided outlined multiple hypotheses, not just that the brain develops the opposite gender from the body as you assert here. 

There is no scientific proof a brain is the opposite sex of the body other than the person telling you. If you dig up a body of a trans person 100 years from now, no one will know they were a trans person, even if you left their brain in a jar of preservatives with the body. 

So again I ask... if someone thinks they are a cat, is their brain a cat brain?

 

[Radiorum]

2 minutes ago, User said:

other than the person telling you.

Uh, why would they lie? If someone tells you who they are, believe them.

3 minutes ago, User said:

If you dig up a body of a trans person 100 years from now, no one will know they were a trans person, even if you left their brain in a jar of preservatives with the body. 

Well, this has nothing to do with the identity of a living person...

4 minutes ago, User said:

if someone thinks they are a cat, is their brain a cat brain?

This is such a ridiculous question, it does not deserve an answer.