The Moment Vance Lost the Debate

[robosmith]

10 hours ago, Rebound said:

“He is still saying he didn’t lose the election,” Mr. Walz said of Mr. Trump, turning to Mr. Vance. “Did he lose the 2020 election?”

“Tim,” Mr. Vance replied, “I’m focused on the future.” 

“That,” Mr. Walz said, “is a damning non-answer.”

There was a reason, he added, that Mr. Pence was not on the stage as Mr. Trump’s running mate anymore.

“America, I think you’ve got a really clear choice,” Mr. Walz said, his eyes getting bigger, “of who’s going to honor that democracy and who’s going to honor Donald Trump.”

I like the part where Vance said "he's focusing on the future," and in his next sentence brings up something Harris supposedly did in 2020. Now that is DOUBLE TALK. 🤮

[User]

2 hours ago, Rebound said:

You can't argue the facts... all you have is memes. 

[Matthew]

5 hours ago, Boges said:

The issue here is that there's very few people that haven't made their mind up. 

The issue isn't with fence-sitters, it's with non-voters. There is a very large percentage of eligible citizens who do not vote but who can sometimes be persuaded to do so.

[Old Guy]

5 hours ago, User said:

You mean the disloyalty of Harris not having Biden removed from office for being mentally unfit?

No what I meant was the disloyalty of Vance for refusing to say he would do what Mr. Pence did and certify the electoral college vote if it went against his favored candidate. Pence was under tremendous pressure to refuse to certify but he understood that his duty was to the constitution not to Trump.  His reward was a mob chanting hang Pence. It would appear that in Vance's mind loyalty to Trump is more important than loyalty to the constitution.  I don't understand why Republican voters aren't concerned with that misplaced loyalty.

[Chrissy1979]

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Or hillary who's STILL going around insisting trump wasn't the legit president  

 

Don't lie, liar. Hillary conceded as soon as the results were in. That's the standard by which losing candidates are judged. Donald's campaign may have cheated by colluding with Russia, but she still put the country first.

[CdnFox]

57 minutes ago, Chrissy1979 said:

Don't lie, liar. 

Hillary Clinton: Trump is an ‘illegitimate president’ - The Washington Post

Sigh. Proving that you are wrong/stupid/lying/dumb is like hunting cattle with a high powered rifle and scope. 

[User]

3 hours ago, Old Guy said:

No what I meant was the disloyalty of Vance for refusing to say he would do what Mr. Pence did and certify the electoral college vote if it went against his favored candidate. Pence was under tremendous pressure to refuse to certify but he understood that his duty was to the constitution not to Trump.  His reward was a mob chanting hang Pence. It would appear that in Vance's mind loyalty to Trump is more important than loyalty to the constitution.  I don't understand why Republican voters aren't concerned with that misplaced loyalty.

Oh... I see, so the whole loyalty to the Constitution thing is just a partisan talking point for you. 

[Old Guy]

20 hours ago, User said:

Oh... I see, so the whole loyalty to the Constitution thing is just a partisan talking point for you. 

I don't understand your point since as far as I remember Pence was the Republican VP. I'm sure that there are many republicans who would do what Pence did and would not have a problem doing so but there are also many who would not. 

[User]

16 hours ago, Old Guy said:

I don't understand your point since as far as I remember Pence was the Republican VP. I'm sure that there are many republicans who would do what Pence did and would not have a problem doing so but there are also many who would not. 

The point is that your care for any loyalty to the Constitution only goes as far as you can use it as a partisan talking point. You don't care when it is Democrats doing it. 

 

[Hodad]

19 hours ago, Old Guy said:

I don't understand your point since as far as I remember Pence was the Republican VP. I'm sure that there are many republicans who would do what Pence did and would not have a problem doing so but there are also many who would not. 

I'm not so sure anymore. The Republicans who stood up and called out Trump's egregious abuses of power and his crimes have been viewed and punished as traitors to the party. Deeply conservative people with deep commitment to their constitutional responsibilities have had their lives threatened for just doing their jobs. From state and local officials like Raffensberger in Georgia to national figures like Liz Cheney and Mike Pence. They called Mitch McConnell a RINO for farks sake, just for acknowledging Trump's culpability in the January 6 attack.

I'm not sure that people of conscience have any place in Trump's party. The only thing of value there is power.

Edited October 4, 2024 by Hodad

[Old Guy]

So what is next for the conservatives that aren't MAGA. Are they a strong enough faction to form a new party. Or could  they retake the Republican party leaving MAGA to start a new party?

[User]

46 minutes ago, Old Guy said:

So what is next for the conservatives that aren't MAGA. Are they a strong enough faction to form a new party. Or could  they retake the Republican party leaving MAGA to start a new party?

What is next for liberals who are not crazy Democrats? A

Do you think they are a strong enough faction to form a new party or could they retake the Democratic party leaving the crazy Democrats to start a new party?

 

[Hodad]

1 hour ago, Old Guy said:

So what is next for the conservatives that aren't MAGA. Are they a strong enough faction to form a new party. Or could  they retake the Republican party leaving MAGA to start a new party?

I really don't know. Perhaps when Trump falls away from public life it will be a reasonable proposition for rational people to reclaim the party. Or perhaps the toothpaste is out of the tube and there are enough Trump acolytes to carry the torch. 

As for a new party, that's a grim choice. You have to believe in conservative principles enough to see value in not getting your way for some time. It's happened before, but I'm not sure it's feasible today. I have no idea how many people have convictions of their own. Have they been cowed into quite, or are they simply not there?

Edited October 4, 2024 by Hodad

[Guest]

On 10/2/2024 at 7:07 PM, CdnFox said:

Sigh.

She conceded when it mattered, stupid. Didn't try to get a crowd to change the reality.

[Black Dog]

33 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

She conceded when it mattered, stupid. Didn't try to get a crowd to change the reality.

To some of these peabrains, Trump's attempting to subvert the election by creating and submitting fraudulent certificates of ascertainment to falsely claim Trump had won the electoral college vote in some states, pressuring the DoJ Department of Justice challenge the results and publicly state the election was corrupt, sending proxies all over the country to file lawsuit after lawsuit promoting false claims that the election was rigged, and whipping up a mob to storm the Capitol to disrupt the Senate proceedings and Hillary making public comments about documented election interference are the same thing.

[Rebound]

On 10/2/2024 at 5:21 PM, User said:

You can't argue the facts... all you have is memes. 

If you don't lie, there is no fact-checking.

[User]

11 minutes ago, Rebound said:

If you don't lie, there is no fact-checking.

Exactly, if the moderators did not lie, they would have stuck to the rules. 

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

She conceded when it mattered, stupid.

Nope. It always matters.  if you concede and then say it was illegally stolen by the russians and he's a fraudulent president then she didnt' really 'concede'.  She just gave up the legal battle. 

Sorry - i know the dems are personal heros for you but sadly they're just not all they say they are. 

[Guest]

54 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Nope. It always matters.  if you concede and then say it was illegally stolen by the russians and he's a fraudulent president then she didnt' really 'concede'.  She just gave up the legal battle. 

Sorry - i know the dems are personal heros for you but sadly they're just not all they say they are. 

Why you mad? 🙃

[robosmith]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Nope. It always matters.  if you concede and then say it was illegally stolen by the russians and he's a fraudulent president then she didnt' really 'concede'.  She just gave up the legal battle. 

Sorry - i know the dems are personal heros for you but sadly they're just not all they say they are. 

IF conceding is not a big deal, then WHY didn't Trump DO IT?

The FACT is, what Trump is STILL doing is a much bigger deal than Hillary questioning whether his "win" was legitimate.

Of course, anyone with a brain knows it wasn't, and you would too, if Trump hadn't neutered the FEC so they couldn't investigate violations, right after he took office.

[User]

6 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

She conceded when it mattered, stupid. Didn't try to get a crowd to change the reality.

Huh? 

Democrats, including her, spent the next 4 years trying to change the reality by going after Trump for collusion with Russia. 

2 hours ago, robosmith said:

IF conceding is not a big deal, then WHY didn't Trump DO IT?

The FACT is, what Trump is STILL doing is a much bigger deal than Hillary questioning whether his "win" was legitimate.

Of course, anyone with a brain knows it wasn't, and you would too, if Trump hadn't neutered the FEC so they couldn't investigate violations, right after he took office.

Trump did do it. You are always lying. That is why you cowardly hide from me, because I consistently called you out for it. 

What Trump did and is still doing is nothing compared to what Democrats did to get Trump for his entire administration. 

 

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Why you mad? 🙃

You sure get a lot of use out of that mirror

 

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, robosmith said:

IF conceding is not a big deal, then WHY didn't Trump DO IT?

He's a bit of an !diot.

And the other problem with trump is that he sees everything in terms of a lawsuit. He thinks if he admits defeat by conceding that he won't be able to sue. However this was a political playground and because of that failure he's getting beaten up about it now which hurts his chances of her gaining power.

A better question is if Hillary really conceded why has she been running around for the last 8 years saying trump was a false president?

3 hours ago, robosmith said:

The FACT is, what Trump is STILL doing is a much bigger deal than Hillary questioning whether his "win" was legitimate.

Nope. She is even worse. Trump at least puts his allegations on the table and people could see whether or not it makes sense. She runs around constantly saying that he's an illegitimate president without actually putting any genuine argument forward. She says things like"Well I guess we'll never know for sure what happened but...."

Not to mention that she started off with a fake dossier.

Sorry kid. You can't claim that trump is bad without facing the fact that Hillary is worse

[Guest]

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

You sure get a lot of use out of that mirror

 

Translation-"am mad, trying to meme my way out of it." 🙃

[Rebound]

On 10/2/2024 at 7:07 PM, CdnFox said:

Hillary Clinton: Trump is an ‘illegitimate president’ - The Washington Post

Sigh. Proving that you are wrong/stupid/lying/dumb is like hunting cattle with a high powered rifle and scope. 

Did she claim that she was the actual winner?