The health care system is failing; give us choice.

[taxme]

On 5/14/2024 at 10:54 AM, blackbird said:

"From patients dying on waiting lists to “critically ill” patients being asked to share a single hospital bed , our system is in crisis. A recent Leger poll found that 64 per cent of Canadians believe it needs a “major change” while only five per cent felt more money was the solution. The public overwhelmingly understands that 30 years of throwing money at the system hasn’t worked."

Opinion: When Pierre Poilievre knocks on your door, demand health care choice (msn.com)

It is my personal opinion that this massive immigration policy is the problem that is creating a mess and is causing our waiting list and medical crisis to become overburdened. Canada does not have all of the doctors and nurses that are needed to take care of Canadians who should come first. What is needed in Canada is a moratorium on immigration for at least 7 years, if not longer if required to do so. This present day massive immigration policy is killing Canada and it's medical and government social services. It's a crime to keep this immigration and refugee policy in effect. 

[exPS]

15 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

There will be private clinics and hospitals. If you choose to use them you will pay for services for a quicker and possibly better service.

There is no need for private clinics.

Simply stop pi$$ing money away on useless and ineffective government offices. The military, NATO, CBC, Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commission to name a very few and stop handing out billions to other countries...

Maybe take a poll. Infrastructure and the medical care system for starters and then also become a country that leads in a production of products.

[exPS]

16 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

But I do take it as a given that government doesn't have the profit motive and runs things less efficienctly, generally.

Bingo.

[SpankyMcFarland]

Sociology is a much derided line of work but it would be nice to know why so few Torontonians are being seen via the Internet by, say, doctors in Sudbury, ie, why are young doctors crowding into places that are both full of doctors already, a nightmare to drive around and highly expensive to live in? We’re not getting grown-up answers to these questions. 

[Venandi]

Just this morning I got to thinking about years gone by when everyone had a doctor, access was pretty quick, yearly physicals "were a thing,"  going to the emergency department wasn't a 24 hour marathon event, etc etc. Many of us remember those days. 

All the talk about shortages lead me to a quick search of doctors per capita. First up on the search was this: https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/doctor-supply-cihi-1.5298005

This quote from the article jumped out:

The report found that in 2018 there was equivalent to 241 physicians per 100,000 population, the highest number per capita ever, said Ballinger.

Have to say I was a bit surprised.... unfortunately though I'm out the door in minutes and won't have time to look deeper at it for a few days. 

But, if the article is even close to being true it makes me wonder how the current state of affairs can possibly be anything other than self inflicted. 

 

Edited May 29 by Venandi

[CdnFox]

6 hours ago, Venandi said:

Just this morning I got to thinking about years gone by when everyone had a doctor, access was pretty quick, yearly physicals "were a thing,"  going to the emergency department wasn't a 24 hour marathon event, etc etc. Many of us remember those days. 

All the talk about shortages lead me to a quick search of doctors per capita. First up on the search was this: https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/doctor-supply-cihi-1.5298005

This quote from the article jumped out:

The report found that in 2018 there was equivalent to 241 physicians per 100,000 population, the highest number per capita ever, said Ballinger.

Have to say I was a bit surprised.... unfortunately though I'm out the door in minutes and won't have time to look deeper at it for a few days. 

But, if the article is even close to being true it makes me wonder how the current state of affairs can possibly be anything other than self inflicted. 

 

There were a number of problems with that report as it turned out. They only considered 'permanent' residents, they took population figures from one year but doctors from the next, etc etc. and not all the doctors were actually active. They may still have their license  but they could be retired already or semi retired. 

But  the biggest issue which isn't addressed in that report (tho it's alluded to in the article) is that the vast majority of those doctors are specialists, and not family doctors or GP's as they've been known. 

There is far less money in being a GP than there is being a specialist doctor. So there's a horrible shortage of them and that's why people can't find one. 

Unfortunately that's a major block to health care because you can only see a specialist if referred by a GP as a rule. 

The problem will remain until the provinces make it more attractive to be a GP in Canada. 

[Venandi]

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

There were a number of problems with that report as it turned out. They only considered 'permanent' residents, they took population figures from one year but doctors from the next, etc etc. and not all the doctors were actually active. They may still have their license  but they could be retired already or semi retired. 

But  the biggest issue which isn't addressed in that report (tho it's alluded to in the article) is that the vast majority of those doctors are specialists, and not family doctors or GP's as they've been known. 

There is far less money in being a GP than there is being a specialist doctor. So there's a horrible shortage of them and that's why people can't find one. 

Unfortunately that's a major block to health care because you can only see a specialist if referred by a GP as a rule. 

The problem will remain until the provinces make it more attractive to be a GP in Canada. 

Thanks, you saved me a bunch of searching.

I hate to admit it, but I hadn't looked into those numbers at all until this morning, I simply took the "massive shortage of doctors" story on faith, I should know better by now I guess. 

Still, it seems the numbers are better than I expected, or at least good enough to suggest that rationalizing a clearly irrational system has potential short term benefits (and efficiencies) while simply throwing money at it probably doesn't. I expected to be horrified at the per capita numbers... and I wasn't. Maybe grabbing this issue by the throat and choking it is in order.

Has full tuition and living expenses in return for a period of obligatory service ever been considered...something like the military does with pilots, doctors and chaplains?

That might help with some of the rural issues and encourage more GPs to stay GPs. Maybe the capital gains tax could be selectively modified to encourage GPs as well. Just imagine the howling if that happened eh?

It will be interesting to see if the conservatives walk that back, I'd like to think they will but at best, I'm guessing it will be dangled in front of voters for years to come. LOL, look how cynical I've become...  

 

 

Edited May 29 by Venandi

[CdnFox]

11 minutes ago, Venandi said:

 

Has full tuition and living expenses in return for a period of obligatory service ever been considered...something like the military does with pilots, doctors and chaplains?

 

Yes, but that really doesn't solve the problem. You could work out a contract of some sort saying that in order to get that they promise to work as a GP for a certain. Of time or something but it would still be fairly limited and difficult to enforce. They can specialize after they graduate just as easily. 

What they need to do is rework the GP model so that general practitioners get what they want, which is basically more Equitable pay, more time to spend with their clients and better working conditions.

And maybe don't shoot them in the leg by canceling their right to A capital gains tax exemption for their business when they retire.

Being a GP right now is fairly miserable and most provinces and the pay is low. It's a complete misery in the smaller towns in areas for a variety of reasons. They get 15 minutes to spend with a client and then they have to kick him out the door and for most of their stuff that's just not enough time.

And these are people that can go to the states or any other country in the world and be working in a short time and making more money.

So it's no wonder nobody can find a doctor

Edited May 29 by CdnFox