Videospirit Posted May 13 Report Share Posted May 13 5 minutes ago, CdnFox said: No it hasn't . Sorry kiddo but saying that israel occupies Palestinian land in general does not classify the specific conditions in gaza on october 6th as an 'occupation'. The International Court of Justice (ICJ),[3] the UN General Assembly,[4] and the UN Security Council all regard Israel as the occupying power for the territories.[5] UN Special Rapporteur Richard Falk called Israel's occupation "an affront to international law". The UN and a number of human rights organizations continue to consider Israel as the occupying power of the Gaza Strip due to its blockade of the territory. 9 minutes ago, CdnFox said: It is a part of israel. Israel was happy to discuss them and the west bank NOT being a part, and being a stand alone nation, but the palestinians decided violence was better. How's that working out for them. Citation Required. Please list the treaties signed granting Israel Sovereignty over the territory claimed by modern Palestine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legato Posted May 13 Report Share Posted May 13 7 minutes ago, Videospirit said: The International Court of Justice (ICJ),[3] the UN General Assembly,[4] and the UN Security Council all regard Israel as the occupying power for the territories.[5] UN Special Rapporteur Richard Falk called Israel's occupation "an affront to international law". The UN and a number of human rights organizations continue to consider Israel as the occupying power of the Gaza Strip due to its blockade of the territory. No one listens to anything the UN says, especially when it concerns Israel. The UN has had a hate on for Israel for many years. That organisation couldn't sanction a pi*s-up at a brewery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted May 13 Report Share Posted May 13 1 hour ago, User said: Um... no. This is a public forum, you post junk here, expect a response. OK, then keep banging your head. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted May 13 Report Share Posted May 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted May 13 Author Report Share Posted May 13 (edited) 1 hour ago, Videospirit said: Does this board not have any moderation? I'm pretty sure your conduct in this entire post is way out of line. Please refrain from further hate speech in the future. This is a forum for discussion not irrational hate filled vitriol. Yes it does have moderation, but an example of hate speech would be if I made false, unsupported accusation, and I did no such thing. You said: They're willing to overlook a lot of reprehensible things when those feelings are directed towards a villain. You're saying that "people can overlook 'torturing babies to death' because Israelis are villains", because that's the exact reprehensible thing that we're talking about here. FYI non-bigots don't overlook "intentionally burning babies to death", ever. If Israeli soldiers were caught intentionally burning Palestinian babies to death I'd be happy to see them get the death penalty, and I would in no way support anyone "overlooking" it. Stop being a vile bigot Stop playing the victim card, you're not a victim you're a vile bigot. You just don't know it yet. FYI when Hamas rockets were fired at Israel, we all understood that the intention was to kill anyone within the blast zone, including babies, but that's still not the same as "see baby, grab baby, torture baby to death". There's a level of depravity there that no non-bigot will not make room for under the umbrella of "sh1t happens in a war zone." Soldiers don't do sh1t like that. Edited May 13 by WestCanMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted May 13 Author Report Share Posted May 13 1 hour ago, Videospirit said: The International Court of Justice (ICJ),[3] the UN General Assembly,[4] and the UN Security Council all regard Israel as the occupying power for the territories.[5] Sure, they're an occupying power. Get a tattoo or something? Quote UN Special Rapporteur Richard Falk called Israel's occupation "an affront to international law". How many people is "Richard Falk"? Sounds like one guy to me. Quote The UN and a number of human rights organizations continue to consider Israel as the occupying power of the Gaza Strip due to its blockade of the territory. Ok, they're an occupying power... Hamas still has "commit a massive genocide" in their list of promises to their adherents. Facts matter. "Richard Falk's opinion" is of no consequence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted May 14 Author Report Share Posted May 14 4 hours ago, Videospirit said: Not saying shit about what hamas has done to their own citizens, Why not? It matters. Palestinians are human. Kids are always innocent. What Hamas does to them matters. People like you blame Israel for things that Hamas does to their own children. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted May 14 Report Share Posted May 14 9 minutes ago, Videospirit said: The International Court of Justice (ICJ),[3] the UN General Assembly,[4] and the UN Security Council all regard Israel as the occupying power for the territories.[5] But don't consider gaza to be occupied. just that they have control over the entire region in generally in a military sense. So - occupied land but 'not an occupation'. Thanks for proving my point LOLOL Quote UN Special Rapporteur Richard Falk called Israel's occupation "an affront to international law". . And? He's not a professor not a judge, he's some loser with an agenda. Colour me shocked that a university professor from a left wing learning institute said something negative about Israel. At the end of the day they had peace, there was no occupation. Then they chose to deliberately slaughter innocent women and children for terror and genocide in order to start a war. Then they chose to hide behind their own children and women to fight the war knowing the IDF would have no choice but to kill them to get to them. Everything thats happening right now is 100 percent the responsibility of Gaza, it's gov't and it's people. Hopefully they'll learn from it and this will never happen again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted May 14 Author Report Share Posted May 14 4 minutes ago, CdnFox said: At the end of the day they had peace, there was no occupation. If the UN wants to call it an "occupation", just because Israel is preventing them from shipping in unlimited numbers of bombs and missiles, let them have their word. There are more important terms in use here, like "genocidal Palestinians" and "Palestinian terrorists". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted May 14 Report Share Posted May 14 Just now, WestCanMan said: If the UN wants to call it an "occupation", just because Israel is preventing them from shipping in unlimited numbers of bombs and missiles, let them have their word. There are more important terms in use here, like "genocidal Palestinians" and "Palestinian terrorists". Well they don't actually - what he's referring to is ALL of israel - israel and gaza and the west bank, all of it is considered to be 'occupied' by israel because some of it is conested land and yet israel controls it all currently. And even by that definition its' not - they very clearly had no control over gaza. So that's why he was trying to say it's not occupied in the normal sense of having boots on the ground but its a "Kind" of occupied. LIke a bathroom is kind of 'occupied' i guess Either way it's a shitty argument 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted May 14 Report Share Posted May 14 2 hours ago, Videospirit said: "Israel has been willing to make peace with them". You keep saying this as if Israel just can't seem to make peace no matter how hard it tries, as if the Palestinian army is so powerful that Israel has no choice but to negotiate a peace with them instead of enforcing one. If it was any other country at war with Palestine, Palestine would have been crushed long ago, some local authoritarian puppet would have been propped up and placed in charge of the region until they had it firmly under control, and Israel would have withdrawn to let their puppet control the region by force long ago. The fact Israel has never done this is purely because they have some other motive in the conflict, and from all the colonization of Palestinian territory it's not hard to understand what those motives are. Enforcing one? Wait a minute... so now you want Israel to occupy and control the Palestinian people? You are right... no other country will tolerate the Palestinian people, which is exactly why you don't see countries like Egypt or others willing to do anything to let any of them take refuge there. Jordan seen what happens. Jordan ran them off. So, your big argument now is that you want Israel to wipe them all out into total submission? 1 hour ago, ExFlyer said: OK, then keep banging your head. LOL If that is how you feel about things... I see things differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Groot Posted May 14 Report Share Posted May 14 3 hours ago, Videospirit said: Does this board not have any moderation? I'm pretty sure your conduct in this entire post is way out of line. Please refrain from further hate speech in the future. This is a forum for discussion not irrational hate filled vitriol. You just got here. This is a rather more free wheeling forum than you're likely used to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Videospirit Posted May 14 Report Share Posted May 14 3 hours ago, User said: Enforcing one? Wait a minute... so now you want Israel to occupy and control the Palestinian people? You are right... no other country will tolerate the Palestinian people, which is exactly why you don't see countries like Egypt or others willing to do anything to let any of them take refuge there. Jordan seen what happens. Jordan ran them off. So, your big argument now is that you want Israel to wipe them all out into total submission? If that is how you feel about things... I see things differently. What I want? I want Israel to accept that Palestinians hate them and turn the other cheek and let the Palestinians rise or mess up their own country as they themselves choose without Israel telling them how to live their lives, occupying their land, blockading their coastline, or telling them what they can and can't do. If after granting them true sovereignty and ending all occupations, Palestine is unwise enough to attack Israel, Israel would be justified occupying their country and installing a new regime smart enough not to attack Israel again and withdraw from all occupied territory again once that new regime has stabilized. I think the state of Israel is guilty of genocide for dragging this war out for as long as they have, dumping humiliation after humiliation on the Palestinian people and demanding the Palestinians be servile and thankful to their efforts every step of the way and than going back on their word and continuing the occupation whenever Palestinians get upset. Israeli governing officials have openly stated that they have no intention of ever ending this war because they do not want to return all of Palestine's territory to them. So I don't think Israel deserves the benefit of the doubt in the current conflict. I'd really like it if they just accepted Hamas Peace terms and ended the war, because Israel has no moral ground to stand on as the occupying power, but Israel isn't benevolent so that's never going to happen. Israel refuses to acknowledge Hamas right to exist, so they'll keep fighting until Hamas ceases to exist. So if Israel not being a genocidal pariah state is off the table, regime change would at least be an improvement over decades more of Israeli occupation. But even if Israel destroys Hamas militarily, what is Israel going to do after that? They sure as hell aren't going to do the closest thing to the morally right thing they could justifiably do and grant Palestinians independence under an Israeli backed Palestinian Regime. It's just going to be more abuse of Palestinians by Israelis for the indeterminate future in the hopes that eventually Israel will be able to annex more Palestinian land at some point in the future. The US unjustified invasion of Iraq started on March 19, and by April 21 a new governmental Regime was in charge of Iraq. The military disparity between Israel and Palestine is even more severe than that between Iraq and the United States. Israel's decades of occupation of Palestine has no excuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted May 14 Report Share Posted May 14 1 minute ago, Videospirit said: Quote What I want? I want Israel to accept that Palestinians hate them and turn the other cheek and let the Palestinians rise or mess up their own country as they themselves choose without Israel telling them how to live their lives, occupying their land, blockading their coastline, or telling them what they can and can't do. Dude NOBODY - NOBODY is going to ignore a thousand plus of their women and children being slaughtered, mutilated raped and burned (not necessarily in that order). Israel gave them a lot of autonomy and look what they did with it. IF they gave them more what happens then, 2000 dead? Any argument that the palestinians should get more autonomy went out the window on 0ct 7th period. You're spouting nonesense - the palestinians attack them every few years, and REFUSE to negotiate for a 2 state solution because they don't want to have to admit israel has a right to exist. And your solution is "well - lets let them try to kill us all ONNNNE more time and then boy, thats enough". They had their chance. They COULD have NOT elected hamas, they COULD have completed negotiatons in good faith in 2014 and they COULD have not attacked on oct 7. But they screwed up and i don't think anyone thinks it's reasonable to think they'll change if they have 'one more chance.'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Videospirit Posted May 14 Report Share Posted May 14 8 minutes ago, CdnFox said: Dude NOBODY - NOBODY is going to ignore a thousand plus of their women and children being slaughtered, mutilated raped and burned (not necessarily in that order). Israel gave them a lot of autonomy and look what they did with it. IF they gave them more what happens then, 2000 dead? Any argument that the palestinians should get more autonomy went out the window on 0ct 7th period. You're spouting nonesense - the palestinians attack them every few years, and REFUSE to negotiate for a 2 state solution because they don't want to have to admit israel has a right to exist. And your solution is "well - lets let them try to kill us all ONNNNE more time and then boy, thats enough". They had their chance. They COULD have NOT elected hamas, they COULD have completed negotiatons in good faith in 2014 and they COULD have not attacked on oct 7. But they screwed up and i don't think anyone thinks it's reasonable to think they'll change if they have 'one more chance.'. The way I see it they have had 0 chances. It'd be like if China invaded all of the us except texas and promised for reals they'd end the occupation in 20 years if the Texans never did anything to oppose them and than oh wait let's extend it another 20 years because this unrelated third party launched a terrorist attack claiming to be texans. What a Palestine at war with Israel has done is not conclusive evidence of what a free Palestine would do. A lot of Palestine's actions have been backed by their belief that the international community will somewhat tolerate their actions because Israel is occupying them. But even if that was evidence of what Palestine would do if Israel stopped screwing them over and denying their right to exist, what is Israel going to do about it? Even if you think Israel is justified retaliating against the resumption of hostilities in the decades long war, they're not going to regime change Palestine, they're just going to continue the war indefinitely like they've always done. The only one with the power to end this war is Israel, and they just refuse to do so because Israel's end goal is to expand their territory, and International law makes it very difficult for them to do that so they need to keep screwing over the Palestinians over and over again until they either all die or a lawfully elected Palestinian government willingly agrees to cede territory to Israel while not under duress. This entire conflict would have ended ages ago if Israel wanted it to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted May 14 Report Share Posted May 14 6 minutes ago, Videospirit said: The way I see it they have had 0 chances. well you're objectively wrong. Period. They have had many chances. Quote It'd be like if China invaded all of the us except texas and promised for reals they'd end the occupation in 20 years if the Texans never did anything to oppose them Well then the Texans would have a choice. Build a life for themselves for the next 20 years and learn to peacefully co exist and prosper or get turned to dust, cause china ain't gonna put up with that crap. Now lets go over a few of the differences. China "invaded" a 100 years ago, and if you'd handled things better then you'd already have a strong soverign nation - so is wasting another 20 years wise? China didn't "invade" - they were told to go live there and they did. And this is what you need to understand - no matter how they got here, no matter how fair or unfair you or they think it is, this is where it's at. And TODAY, you have a choice. They made the wrong choice. Quote The only one with the power to end this war is Israel, Nope. It's just Gaza. If the Palestinians put down their weapons permanently tomorrow, they will have peace and their own nation in a short time. If the Jews put down their weapons tomorrow, they will have a second holocaust. Gaza could end this tomorrow. They don't because they don't want to. They don't because they want war and violence and they want their people to die in large numbers for political points. They are going to have to live with the consequences of those choices 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted May 14 Report Share Posted May 14 51 minutes ago, Videospirit said: What I want? I want Israel to accept that Palestinians hate them and turn the other cheek and let the Palestinians rise or mess up their own country as they themselves choose without Israel telling them how to live their lives, occupying their land, blockading their coastline, or telling them what they can and can't do. So, you just want the Jews not to care if they keep getting killed... Listen, you have no coherent thoughts here, at all. Israel is telling them how to live their lives in as much as that means to not kill Israeli people. 54 minutes ago, Videospirit said: If after granting them true sovereignty and ending all occupations, Palestine is unwise enough to attack Israel, Israel would be justified occupying their country and installing a new regime smart enough not to attack Israel again and withdraw from all occupied territory again once that new regime has stabilized. Israel is already justified in doing what they are doing. 55 minutes ago, Videospirit said: I think the state of Israel is guilty of genocide... Yeah, you and a handful of others on here make this assertion, and none of the others could back it up with any factual argument. Can you? 56 minutes ago, Videospirit said: I'd really like it if they just accepted Hamas Peace terms and ended the war Yeah, I bet you would. In the end the truth always comes out with you folks on here. You support Hamas. So, tell us, did you support Hamas actions on October 7th too? Rape, torture, killing women and children, taking hostages? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted May 14 Report Share Posted May 14 34 minutes ago, Videospirit said: and denying their right to exist What a completely ignorant thing to say. If Israel wanted to kill all the Palestinians, they could have lined up their military and carpet bombed them into oblivion with their tanks following behind to crush whatever was left standing and their infantry close behind to finish off anything they missed. The difference between the Palestinians and Israelis is that Israel has that power and doesn't use it like that... if the Palestinians had that power all the Jews would be dead and Israel wiped off the map. Enough of your nonsense already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Videospirit Posted May 14 Report Share Posted May 14 1 minute ago, CdnFox said: well you're objectively wrong. Period. They have had many chances. Well, you call them chances, I call them political performance. You are greatly misusing the word objectively here. These chances you speak of are extremely subjective. You want an actual objective statement? At no point since the protectorate of Palestine was formed has a sovereign state of Palestine existed as a free country with no territory under occupation to show the world how such a state would behave. 11 minutes ago, CdnFox said: If the Palestinians put down their weapons permanently tomorrow, they will have peace and their own nation in a short time. If the Jews put down their weapons tomorrow, they will have a second holocaust. Gaza could end this tomorrow. They don't because they don't want to. They don't because they want war and violence and they want their people to die in large numbers for political points. They are going to have to live with the consequences of those choices If the Palestinians put down their weapons permanently tomorrow the end result would be the same as if they don't put their weapons down and Israel occupies them militarily except less deaths in the short term. I don't know where you're getting this idea that that would somehow lead to them having their own country. Israel has occupied Palestine before, they never granted Palestinians their own country than. That's not an end to the war, it's just a change from an active battle to a military occupation. Regardless of whether "Gaza" wants war and violence, history has shown that the war won't end regardless of what they do. And as for Israel, Israel definitely needs to keep their weapons to defend themselves, Throwing down their weapons and surrendering would be incredibly unwise. They just don't need to use those weapons against Palestine. Hamas would love to accept a peace deal where Israel just ends their occupation of Palestine and returns prisoners of war and leaves them alone. I wouldn't be surprised if Israel is correct that Hamas would just use that peace to arm up for a future war against Israel, Israel certainly hasn't earned themselves any good will from Palestinians, but that would be Palestine's right as a sovereign nation. I'd hope having true peace for the first time in their lives would allow them to appreciate it and they'd reconsider such plans though, but no one can truly know how that would work out. It would certainly be the most just outcome possible to such a messed up situation though. 14 minutes ago, User said: Yeah, you and a handful of others on here make this assertion, and none of the others could back it up with any factual argument. Can you? Yeah, I bet you would. In the end the truth always comes out with you folks on here. You support Hamas. So, tell us, did you support Hamas actions on October 7th too? Rape, torture, killing women and children, taking hostages? I mean, when you occupy 100% of a region for decades without ever ending your war on that region, and send settlers to colonize it and displace the native population it's hard to call it anything else. Do you just... not follow world events at all? Sure their actual goal isn't 100% genocide of Palestinians, so the slow nature of the genocide can allow people to make silly arguments like "it's the most incompetent genocide I've ever seen" but you don't need to exterminate every last man woman and child to commit genocide. Arguing otherwise is like claiming the holocaust wasn't genocide because some jews survived it. Israel's goals of the genocide have always been about territory. They don't cry over dead Palestinians, but all they actually want is the land, so genocide itself isn't their goal, it's just the tool they've chosen to achieve their goal, and they want to use that tool sparingly to avoid international criticism. I don't endorse Hamas actions on October 7th, but I respect their sovereignty which is more than I can say for Israel. It's frustrating that they felt that was the best way for them to retaliate against Israel's decades of oppression, but at this point there's so much bad blood between Israel and Palestine that the war will never end unless Israel forces a peace on Palestine, because Palestine lacks the power to force a peace on Israel, and Palestine rightfully hates Israel so much that Israel will never accept a negotiated peace deal with them because they see Palestine as a threat. I have 0 faith that Israel will force a peace on Palestine though, because they've said time and again that they want to annex Palestine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Videospirit Posted May 14 Report Share Posted May 14 41 minutes ago, User said: What a completely ignorant thing to say. Enough of your nonsense already. Israel's stance is that Palestine has no right to exist, and can only be permitted to exist if they are friendly towards Israel, because Israel's safety is more important than Palestine's sovereignty. Enough of your nonsense already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted May 14 Report Share Posted May 14 10 minutes ago, Videospirit said: I mean, when you occupy 100% of a region for decades without ever ending your war on that region Israel left the Gaza strip in 2006. Hamas has ruled there since then and they spent their time terrorizing Israel and attacking them repeatedly. They kept the war going. Hamas attacked on October 7th. 11 minutes ago, Videospirit said: so the slow nature of the genocide There is no Genocide. You have yet to offer any argument supporting this other than repeatedly asserting it. 13 minutes ago, Videospirit said: I don't endorse Hamas actions on October 7th OK, so you don't endorse what they did on the 7th... but you want Israel to ignore it? How do you rationalize that. You may not endorse it, but you certainly don't support stopping it? 14 minutes ago, Videospirit said: unless Israel forces a peace on Palestine Here you go again... you just keep flip flopping back and forth. How does Israel "force" peace on Palestine when you oppose them doing anything? You just said Israel should just give them everything and not do anything to them anymore. How is that forcing peace on them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted May 14 Report Share Posted May 14 1 minute ago, Videospirit said: Israel's stance is that Palestine has no right to exist, You said Israel was denying their right to exist. What do you base that garbage on? If Israel wanted to kill all the Palestinians, they could have lined up their military and carpet bombed them into oblivion with their tanks following behind to crush whatever was left standing and their infantry close behind to finish off anything they missed. The difference between the Palestinians and Israelis is that Israel has that power and doesn't use it like that... if the Palestinians had that power all the Jews would be dead and Israel wiped off the map. Enough of your nonsense already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted May 14 Report Share Posted May 14 22 minutes ago, Videospirit said: Well, you call them chances, I call them political performance. That is because i'm being honest and you're posturing. There have been several paths to peace and their own nation over the years and while israel has reached out their hand hamas has not. Hamas's stated goal is the genocide of the Jewish people. From the river to the sea. Quote You are greatly misusing the word objectively here. These chances you speak of are extremely subjective. They are not. A path is a path. they could have chosen peace. They could have chosen NOT to attack israel again and again and again. They could have chosen not to slaughter people on October 7th. They have chosen war and death. Quote You want an actual objective statement? At no point since the protectorate of Palestine was formed has a sovereign state of Palestine existed as a free country with no territory under occupation to show the world how such a state would behave. Why would anyone want that? Here's the thing - if i lend you ten bucks and you don't pay me back, what kind of fool would i be to lend you 100? If they squander the little power they've had and use it to kill innocent civillians without warning, why in god's name would you give them MORE power to do so? The rest of your rant is just pure self delusion. Palestine could have peace any time they wanted it. They choose otherwise. October 7th was a choice. Israel didn't make them do it. They chose to do it on their own. And now they will have to live and die with the consequences. It is insane to suggest that if a rabid dog bites you the correct course is to give it a longer leash. The correct answer is you put it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Videospirit Posted May 14 Report Share Posted May 14 (edited) 33 minutes ago, User said: You said Israel was denying their right to exist. You seem to believe that "No right to exist" is the same thing as "Cannot be allowed to exist." Which is just pure nonsense. I don't know why you keep bringing up extermination. Enough of your nonsense 35 minutes ago, User said: They kept the war going. Hamas attacked on October 7th. Yes Israel kept the war going. Yes Hamas escalated hostilities on october 7th. What is your point? The war has been going on since 1967. 35 minutes ago, User said: There is no Genocide. You have yet to offer any argument supporting this other than repeatedly asserting it. According to the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA), between 7 October 2023 and 29 January 2024, at least 198 Palestinian households - 1,208 people, including 586 children - have been displaced due to settler violence and access restrictions. And that's just a 4 month period. 35 minutes ago, User said: OK, so you don't endorse what they did on the 7th... but you want Israel to ignore it? How do you rationalize that. You may not endorse it, but you certainly don't support stopping it? Here you go again... you just keep flip flopping back and forth. How does Israel "force" peace on Palestine when you oppose them doing anything? You just said Israel should just give them everything and not do anything to them anymore. How is that forcing peace on them? War is awful, awful things happen in war. Peace is good. October 7th was awful, but Israel doesn't have justice on their side. Both sides of this conflict have committed wrongs, but Palestine is the one defending and Israel is the one occupying so Israel bears more responsibility. They should give Peace a chance. But Realistically, Israel is never going to agree to leave Hamas in charge, so I need to consider realistic alternatives. Israel defeating Hamas and replacing it with a new regime certainly isn't justified considering how much of the conflict is Israel's fault, but it's the only option Israel has if they want to restore peace to the region. It's not a just outcome, I'd really prefer they just try actually making peace with hamas, and Israel is a horrible country for letting it get this far, but it can be done. Israel is never going to do that though, because Israel doesn't want peace. Edited May 14 by Videospirit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted May 14 Report Share Posted May 14 12 hours ago, User said: ..... If that is how you feel about things... I see things differently. You most certainly do and it is about time that you came to that realization LOL Now, you can move on LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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