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'We will definitely be living through a third referendum,' says Parti Quebecois leader


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27 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said:

There'll never be a strong Canada with Quebec involved.  Endless threats to leave . . . fare thee well.

I'm asking that question myself. Quebec's threats have just become tiresome. I wasn't always this way but it seems to never end.

Edited by Aristides
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29 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

Ok then let us leave.

Who's stopping you? You keep having referendums. The ROC is getting tired of listening to it. Shit or get off the pot. We wouldn't put up with this crap from any other province.

Edited by Aristides
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Quebec has a great history and culture, and they’ve had lots of protection of their culture and industries by government, especially the government of Canada. Bombardier, Quebecor, Hydro Quebec, Cirque de Soleil, etc. are some examples.  However, they’re the highest taxed jurisdiction in North America.  They prevent the transfer of Alberta oil and gas to the East Coast. Their infrastructure at times looks third world.  Quebec receives billions in transfers and pet program funding from the rest of Canada, which props up the French language in North America for Quebec.  What’s the upside for Canadians outside Quebec?  They even have to pay international tuition fees in Quebec.  Canadians who move to Quebec from other provinces have to pay a settlement fee. Quebec treats Canadians outside Quebec like foreigners, so why should Canada fight to keep Quebec?  The Americans shake their heads.

Edited by Zeitgeist
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I'm a British Columbian born and bred but a Canadian first.  I would hate to see Canada break up and think it would be bad for everyone and a tragedy  but I'm starting to wonder if that is what has to happen.

Edited by Aristides
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7 minutes ago, Aristides said:

I'm a British Columbian born and bred but a Canadian first.  I would hate to see Canada break up and think it would be bad for everyone but I'm starting to wonder if that is what has to happen.

Yeah Quebec is a high-priced, high maintenance infertile aging girlfriend that the rest of Canada props up for no clear reason other than sentimental feelings for a history that our own government disparages as settler colonial. Quebec’s radical secularism also illustrates that Quebecers are turning their backs on their own cultural roots, as publicly funded Catholic education is only maintained now in English Canada. The irony…

Edited by Zeitgeist
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

Ok then let us leave.

Did it seem like we were holding you from it?  :P we let you have two referrendums.

Get the hell out if you want to go.

You want to complain how you're treated when you have 20 percent of the vote - just wait till you have none.

Edited by CdnFox
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34 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Did it seem like we were holding you from it?  :P we let you have two referrendums.

Get the hell out if you want to go.

You want to complain how you're treated when you have 20 percent of the vote - just wait till you have none.

I actually think Canada needs to hold back funding to Quebec until the out of province tuition fees are lowered and the settler tax removed.  Treating fellow Canadians like foreigners gives non-Quebecers the right to treat Quebec like a foreign country. We don’t pay for services and infrastructure in foreign countries. Anglophone rights in Quebec must also be guaranteed.

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Before Quebec holds the referendum, I hope they know they are not going to take all the land that the province encompasses now.  Removing certain areas could negatively affect the rest of Canada and are not likely to be given up.  Before they actually separate, there will have to be negotiations.  They do not have the right to unilaterally declare a sovereign state of Quebec.  They are part of a confederation and the Federal government represents all of Canada under the authority of His Majesty the King. That means, separation requires negotiation.  Quebec is not a sovereign country yet and doesn't have the power by simply holding a referendum to declare themselves a sovereign state.

Edited by blackbird
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2 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Before Quebec holds the referendum, I hope they know they are not going to take all the land that the province encompasses now.  Removing certain areas could negatively affect the rest of Canada and are not likely to be given up.  Before they actually separate, there will have to be negotiations.  They do not have the right to unilaterally declare a sovereign state of Quebec.  They are part of a confederation and the Federal government represents all of Canada under the authority of His Majesty the King. That means, separation requires negotiation.  Quebec is not a sovereign country yet and doesn't have the power by simply holding a referendum to declare themselves a sovereign state.

Well the other question is how do various areas within quebec feel about it? For example - what's to stop the first nations from deciding they want to stay part of canada and voting to secede fom quebec? If quebec demands they have the right to leave canada, then they have to agree those areas have the right to leave quebec.

It's a null threat.  And that question has been asked already twice,  Just throw them out.

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5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Well the other question is how do various areas within quebec feel about it? For example - what's to stop the first nations from deciding they want to stay part of canada and voting to secede fom quebec? If quebec demands they have the right to leave canada, then they have to agree those areas have the right to leave quebec.

It's a null threat.  And that question has been asked already twice,  Just throw them out.

Yes, and the island of Montreal city councillors always vote for Montreal to stay in Canada.  The Montrealers always vote to stay in Canada.  As Quebec inevitably becomes more multicultural to survive (given the pure lain Quebecers’ negative birth rate), the foreign born population is majority federalist because they fear the ethno-nationalists in Quebec.

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10 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yes, and the island of Montreal city councillors always vote for Montreal to stay in Canada.  The Montrealers always vote to stay in Canada.  As Quebec inevitably becomes more multicultural to survive (given the pure lain Quebecers’ negative birth rate), the foreign born population is majority federalist because they fear the ethno-nationalists in Quebec.

The real question in my mind when all of this comes up is "what do you think you'll have if you leave that you don't have now"?  He's complaining he doesn't know how he'll survive if they have less than 20 percent of the vote? You'll have ZERO percent if you leave,  You already have control over your language and culture in a massive way. You won't have the gov't hand outs or equalization or gov't contracts any more so your income isn't going up, there's nobody that they'd be able to business with that they can't now.

What exactly would they gain? What would they suddenly be able to do that they can't do now?  I can tell you what they'd LOSE and that's absolutely massive.

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6 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

The real question in my mind when all of this comes up is "what do you think you'll have if you leave that you don't have now"?  He's complaining he doesn't know how he'll survive if they have less than 20 percent of the vote? You'll have ZERO percent if you leave,  You already have control over your language and culture in a massive way. You won't have the gov't hand outs or equalization or gov't contracts any more so your income isn't going up, there's nobody that they'd be able to business with that they can't now.

What exactly would they gain? What would they suddenly be able to do that they can't do now?  I can tell you what they'd LOSE and that's absolutely massive.

Yes, and Canadians outside Quebec are questioning the value of pumping a disproportionately high amount of tax revenue into Quebec with few benefits for the rest of Canada, not to mention the already baked in preferential rules for Quebec on immigration, pensions, etc. in our asymmetrical federation. All options available to Quebec should be available to all provinces.  The Conservatives understand the value of ensuring that all provinces have as much power and self-determination as possible.  The federal government should only be focusing on their essential responsibilities and getting them right: defence, ports, air travel, Canada Post, passports, etc.

Edited by Zeitgeist
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19 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Did it seem like we were holding you from it?  :P we let you have two referrendums.

Get the hell out if you want to go.

You want to complain how you're treated when you have 20 percent of the vote - just wait till you have none.

We didn't ask permission.

By the way, I understand your hatred for the independence movement of Quebec. It would mean Canada would be split in two. That would be bad for Canada's interests.

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René used seperation (he actually never talked about "seperation" at all, he spoke of sovereignty association. Very different) to polarize a population that was basically coming out of a theocracy. He called a referendum knowing they would lose just to appease the hardliners. I personally don't think he was actually for seperation just used it as a tool to effect change ie,: campaign finance laws

Lucien admitted explicitly the referendum was just a negotiating tool,  and implicitly that he was never really for an independent Québec.

Paul is just doing the same, the nationalist movement (which is not even sovereignty association) are disillusioned with Francois, so the PQ is just trying to bring over the never Liberal crowd.

There probably won't be another referendum because no one is really talking about, but if there is it will just be to placate the die hards to prove the PQ is still relevant.

 

You know why the Newfies want Québec to separate?

 

 

 

That way they'll be that much closer to Ontario. Hahahaha 

Edited by SkyHigh
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37 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

We didn't ask permission.

 

Yes you did.  Were you not hear for that? There's now an entire act of parliament addressing this. I think you're unclear as to how this works.

Canada is under no obligation to allow you to leave just because. There's no exit clause in the constitution or in the confederation documents.

Canada agreed that under certian conditions it would allow quebec to leave.

Quote

By the way, I understand your hatred for the independence movement of Quebec. It would mean Canada would be split in two. That would be bad for Canada's interests.

I doubt you understand in the least why most westerners don't like quebec - and specifically the province rather than the individual people.
And we're totally fine with you going.  I woudn't expect terribly friendly releations afterwards either.

The last time this came up the western provinces still had a smaller population but we've been catching up quite a bit. Whether you realize it or not but the west has more than once been treated very badly and mildly raped to try to win support and votes in quebec.  We don't particularly like your province, we would be just as happy to see you gone from confederation, and the only part that would be split off would be the maritimes.  I mean we're not talking about mantoba leaving or something.  And we WILL make sure we secure any passage or transit rights we need.

Separating  will not go well for quebec. you'll be broke and desperate within a generation and we'll buy your sorry asses back with pennies on the dollar.  And like i said - maybe some of those hydro deals with the maritimes dont' transfer with you.

Go on and get out. You will deeply regret it - and that won't get easier as the west gains power.  You haven't been winning any friends in the west as a province.

 

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3 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I doubt you understand in the least why most westerners don't like quebec - and specifically the province rather than the individual people.
And we're totally fine with you going.  I woudn't expect terribly friendly releations afterwards either.

We frankly don't want unfriendly relations with Canada as a whole. There could be a free trade agreement just like with the States and a kind of a Schengen style border control in between Quebec and other Canadian provinces. It is feasible. Germany and France overcame their historical grievances. Quebec and Canada may do the same.

5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Go on and get out. You will deeply regret it - and that won't get easier as the west gains power.  You haven't been winning any friends in the west as a province.

You know, the oil era is far gone. Since 2015, Alberta has stagnated a bit.

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1 minute ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

Many of my relatives, friends, coworkers do debate about it.

Those that want full on independence are literally dying out, the reasons that existed back then simply don't now.

There are still people talking about decentralized government and provincial autonomy but that's not exclusive to Québec and can be resolved with establishing a true confederation.

No distinct society needed.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

We frankly don't want unfriendly relations with Canada as a whole.

I doubt your wants will be paramount in people's minds.

Ontario wants peaceful relations but the west isn't going to be particularly interested in that. Just as for the last 100 years politicians could win points by being nice to quebec - post seperation canadian politicians would probably win points "Standing up" to quebec and making sure 'Canada was treated more fairly", which means we come out on top in any trade deal.

5 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

You know, the oil era is far gone. Since 2015, Alberta has stagnated a bit.

Not at the moment - they're in another boom time.  And once we get rid of a gov't that represses alberta's oil industry it will likely boom again.

I don't know how i can be more clear - in the west quebec is generally seen as a useless leech that has contributed NOTHING to confederation other than poutine and is a constant drain on our propserity. 

Seriously - name one thing quebec has done for  a western province.  Name ONE time quebec ever stood up for a western canadian province or acknowledged that we have a right to our culture or properoty. Name ONE WAY that quebec made Canada better.

I can name a lot of ways the west has benefitted quebec.

Get the eff out. We're sick of you .

3 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

Where did Quebec abuse you?

May you show us your bruise?

Sure - it's right here behind my wallet.

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4 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

Those that want full on independence are literally dying out, the reasons that existed back then simply don't now.

The French language, the Civil Code, the secularism, the past grievances have not disappeared. I have experienced both the Canadians world and the Quebec world in my life and I may assure you that there is two countries in one at least.

4 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I doubt your wants will be paramount in people's minds.

Ontario wants peaceful relations but the west isn't going to be particularly interested in that. Just as for the last 100 years politicians could win points by being nice to quebec - post seperation canadian politicians would probably win points "Standing up" to quebec and making sure 'Canada was treated more fairly", which means we come out on top in any trade deal.

So you're trying to bully Quebec to stay in Canada?

OK, message received. One more reason to stand up to Canada.

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1 minute ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

The French language, the Civil Code, the secularism, the past grievances have not disappeared. I have experienced both the Canadians world and the Quebec world in my life and I may assure you that there is two countries in one at least.

You can't use the french language as an example because if the sovereignist movement cared about french the wouldn't have abandoned the other francophone nations in  Canada particularly the Acadians.

I to have lived all over Canada and have never found one issue, concern, inquiétude, that is specific to Québec and nowhere else in the country, but have found many ,"distinct societies"

But if you know of an issue that would warrant independence I'm all ears. Remember independence means your own currency , military and infrastructure all things provided by a proper confederation.

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