Jagmeet Singh backpedals on consumer carbon levy, distances NDP from support for Justin Trudeau's policy (WOAH!)

[CdnFox]

https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/jagmeet-singh-backpedals-on-consumer-carbon-levy-distances-ndp-from-support-for-justin-trudeaus-policy/article_de83157c-f814-11ee-8499-9b6585300758.amp.html

The federal New Democrats no longer believe a consumer carbon price is necessary to fight climate change, Jagmeet Singh suggested Thursday.

The new position, which appears to break with the NDP's previous support for the policy, was outlined in a speech Singh delivered at the Broadbent Institute's annual policy conference in Ottawa on Thursday. In it, he distanced his party from the federal Liberals' flagship climate policy, which has drawn criticism from across the country as the levy and its accompanying rebates increased this April.

Singh condemned the approaches of both Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre to the climate crisis, and said tackling it "can't be done by letting working families bear the cost of climate change while big polluters make bigger and bigger profits."

[CdnFox]

Holy crap.

So that's pretty massive.  Polling (abacus) is showing the ndp voter support for carbon tax is going down, and Jaggers is obviously looking to put some light between him and the liberals on future increases.  I doubt they'll call to scrap it but probably they'd support a freeze.

This is kind of huge - the left has always been a solid wall in support of the carbon tax.

They're being !diots with the 'industrial' vs consumer thing tho - guess who the industries will push the tax onto.  But - this is really interesting news and certainly confirms that Jaggers is a bit of a slut

[PIK]

Singh reads the polls. Time to pull away from Trudeau on the carbon tax and cozy up to the cons. Then to change the channel, go on the attack on Chinese Interference.  Again with the Cons. Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer.

Edited April 13 by PIK

[eyeball]

I think the most telling result from the poll in the OP article is this; 

Overall, the Abacus data showed a small increase in the number of respondents who don't support the federal carbon pricing system, although it also revealed they were skeptical of all political messaging around the issue — regardless of whether it was positive or negative. When it comes to which of the two major federal leaders was providing the most accurate information around the policy, 27 per cent of responders chose Trudeau, 32 per cent chose Poilievre, and 41 per cent said neither.

I think this 41% has probably given up hope because they know on some instinctive level the likeliest reasons for emissions to ever stop now will be catastrophic regardless of who is in power.

[herbie]

Pulling away from the Carbon Tax?
Or allowing a debate to show no one else has any sensible alternative?

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

Pulling away from the Carbon Tax?
Or allowing a debate to show no one else has any sensible alternative?

Holy shit - you've come up with some real spin before but that was epic

Pulling away kiddo.  Up till about a week ago the ndp federally AND provincially was singing it's praises as absolutely necessary and effective.

Now that it's been discredited its "well - maybe we should be doing something better"   

[eyeball]

15 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Now that it's been discredited its "well - maybe we should be doing something better"

There is nothing better, even Scott Moe admits every other option is more expensive.

It would be really refreshing to see some honesty from the right wing and the admission that burn baby burn is the preferred option.

Edited April 14 by eyeball

[CdnFox]

13 minutes ago, eyeball said:

There is nothing better, even Scott Moe admits everything other option is more expensive.

 

Amusingly nothing WOULD be better - it would cost less and have the same effect.    

And there's lots of things that would actually achieve more. And they don't need to be 'expensive - you can easily expand oil and gas sales and use the profits to pay for all kinds of changes.

Remember - it is not digging up the oil or gas that produces the majority of emissions - its the burning of the product. And that is going to happen until there is an alternative. Period.  So we dont' create more emissions drilling for oil - oil is going to be burned either way - but we can definitely take billions from the sale and put it towards things like building reactors, developing true energy storage solutions, developing hydrogen refinement and storage solutions. Things that could be used and sold all over the world to actually reduce the need for oil and gas so that eventually it's phased out.

That actually would be helpful. Demanding that europe buys it's oil from russia instead of canada isn't helpful.

[herbie]

Using some editorial as 'proof' of your assertion even when it cannot itself offer an actual reason is typical for the sheep who cannot indulge in critical thought themselves.
There IS NO OTHER OPTION to put on the table by these other Premiers, and the only NDP one had NOT abandoned the idea in spite of how much bullshit you wish to spout otherwise.

I would propose a good idea for Singh - keep the current carbon tax policy, don't rebate it to residents serve with adequate transit options and earmark the rest for EV rebates including hybrids,  public investment in alternate energy like Crown owned energy companies. Not handouts to private companies.
That would meet every condition of their policy, deliver actual results and lower emissions at the same time.

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, herbie said:

Using some editorial as 'proof' of your assertion even when it cannot itself offer an actual reason is typical for the sheep who cannot indulge in critical thought themselves.

Ummm - it's not actually an op ed    it's a regular newspaper story. From the Star - a left leaning publication. And the only assertion made was that jaggers is backing away from the carbon tax and the proof that the offer is his statement that hes backing away from the carbon tax    now - i'm the first to admit Jaggers is a bit of a liar but......

 

Quote

There IS NO OTHER OPTION to put on the table by these other Premiers,

Why would they? it's not their job. It's the feds job. What the premiers are saying is "it's not working".  And they're right. The people are suffering. It's up to Justin to figure out a better way.

'I realize I haven't been doing my job correctly until now - could you guys do my job for me pls?"

That's how you think it should work? I'm glad you're not a doctor -  "doc this pill you've given me isn't making me feel better" "Well then YOU tell me what you should be taking for your illness!! IT's not MY job!!!!"

 

Quote

I would propose a good idea for Singh - keep the current carbon tax policy, don't rebate it to residents

Ahhh - so your plan is just to make people poorer.

Well i suppose when they die of hunger emissions will go down.

[eyeball]

16 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Amusingly nothing WOULD be better - it would cost less and have the same effect. 

Yup no progress and more cynicism. Win win win.

[herbie]

4 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Ummm - it's not actually an op ed

Umm... engage brain instead of knee.
The "news" is that they supported a non-binding motion to meet with the Premiers, the reasoning is known to  them and dreamed up by YOU that is because they abandoned their support of the carbon tax.

As for your usual spouting that you don't like paying the tax simply claiming black is white that it 'doesn't work' simply proves your wallet is a bigger concern than the issue itself. As does your total inabilty to provide an alternative or even an improvement to the way the tax is used. Just like PP wants, simple slogans for simple minds.

(after all, that worked once for Trump)

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

Yup no progress and more cynicism. Win win win.

No progress, LESS cynicism, lower cost.

If you guys hadn't lied to everyone about the tax in the first place people wouldn't be disillusioned now, which would mean they'd be more likely to support something that worked. But nooooo - it was "it'll solve our climate problems trust me!" and now people think you're tards and climate change isn't serious.

Well done  

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, herbie said:

Umm... engage brain instead of knee.

You haven't said one intelligent thing in the year I've been here and you're going to say that to me

 

Quote

The "news" is that they supported a non-binding motion to meet with the Premiers, the reasoning is known to  them and dreamed up by YOU that is because they abandoned their support of the carbon tax.

According to JAGMEET he also supports at the very least reducing or ending the tax. They're 'charting a course away from it'

NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh told his progressive grassroots base the party is charting a path away from carbon pricing.

https://archive.ph/stcFc#selection-811.95-811.212

He's been saying it everywhere.

Quote

As for your usual spouting that you don't like paying the tax simply claiming black is white that it 'doesn't work' simply proves your wallet is a bigger concern than the issue itself

Sigh. It would be great if you learned to speak english.

Nobody LIKES paying tax - do you know of someone who's a huge fan of paying taxes? Of course not.

But we pay them to get things we want.  But - if it DOESN'T give us what we want, then why are we paying the tax?

Carbon taxes don't work - even the ndp has realized it. It was an interesting idea but it became obvious very early on that it was NOT going to be effective due to the misestimation of how 'elastic' energy costs were.

But - for you types it has nothing to do with the environment, it's about wealth distribruion.

You have essentially sold out the planet to keep up a scheme of wealth distribution, and all you've done is made people poor.

You're a fool. And all you've done is hurt people and made others want to avoid the issue.

[eyeball]

54 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

If you guys hadn't lied to everyone about the tax in the first place people wouldn't be disillusioned now

The only one who's lied about the carbon tax is Poilievre.  As the poll you posted clearly indicated, a majority of Canadians are disillusioned with all the politicians.

Trudeau's commitment to climate change was obvious when he bought a pipeline and then built another beside it.

[eyeball]

So what's preventing Poilievre from simply declaring climate change is a  nothingburger and he intends to do nothing at all about it?

[CdnFox]

49 minutes ago, eyeball said:

The only one who's lied about the carbon tax is Poilievre.  As the poll you posted clearly indicated, a majority of Canadians are disillusioned with all the politicians.

 

So how has he lied?  Oh yeah - he hasn't. The fact people are disillusioned is no surprise, trudeau sold them on the idea that it would work - now someone's showing it hasn't, and people are going to have a certain amount of confusion and unhappiness about that.

 

51 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Trudeau's commitment to climate change was obvious when he bought a pipeline and then built another beside it.

And yet your side still supported him

but to be honest the libs showed their climate colours when they signed kyoto and did nothing. Anyone who voted for the libs or their supportes the dips for 'climate change' was completely delusional

46 minutes ago, eyeball said:

So what's preventing Poilievre from simply declaring climate change is a  nothingburger and he intends to do nothing at all about it?

becuase it isn't and he doesn't.

I know - it hurts you to think that not only were you wrong about the liberals, you might have been wrong about the cpc too.  But that's where we're at.

[eyeball]

26 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

So how has he lied?

He grossly exaggerated the effect of the carbon tax on inflation for starters.

Look, I've said for months you guys have won the war against action. Embrace it revel in it, you know you wanna.

And yet Poilievre just pretends he gives a shit about climate change and has a plan to deal with it.

Polls have consistently shown that a majority of Canadians are concerned about climate change and support measures to rein in rising emissions and keep the planet from warming much more than 1.5 degrees C hotter than pre-industrial levels, a tipping point after which climate-related problems become much worse.

Since the Paris accord was inked, Canada has been the worst performer in terms of reducing emissions of any member of the G7. And that is on the government of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, who proved that words are cheap. Now, at least, there seems to be a semi-credible reduction plan in place.

Mr. Poilievre is in a trickier spot. In March (2023), an Angus Reid poll showed that just 12 per cent of his supporters believe climate change is a “top issue” facing Canada. And only last year, delegates at a federal Conservative convention voted against adding “climate change is real” to the party’s policy book. That is the CPC base. But the views of that base are not aligned with the majority of Canadians.

https://archive.ph/tueFx

Poilievre seems quite aligned with his base of support and I guess we'll see what the base does when he finally announces his plan. I suppose they can always blame how much more Poilievre's plan will cost Canadians on Trudeau.  That's always an easy sell.

[CdnFox]

10 minutes ago, eyeball said:

He grossly exaggerated the effect of the carbon tax on inflation for starters.

No he didn't.  You're understating it.

Quote

Look, I've said for months you guys have won the war against action. Embrace it revel in it, you know you wanna.

We didn't win anything. So you're completely wrong - as usual.

We didn't even try really - we simply told you what would happen and then let you do as you wished because you said you had this.

You failed. This isn't "wining'  or "losing" -  you decided that rather than be serious about the issue you'd play stupid woke games and run social eperiments and they failed.  As predicted. There was no way it COULD work without making everyone broke. Anyone with a brain realized this early on - its only people who are woke or wish to be seen as woke who said otherwise.

You had the chance to do something about it. You failed. You failed knowing that what you were doing was simply a joke.

If the climate becomes disasterous - it was your fault. You had the freedoms to do whatever you wanted. You chose carbon tax and fuel surcharges as your be all solution and freaked when anyone said otherwise.

This is on you. Personally you as well. Something to keep in mind next time you look at your grandkids. And something to keep in mind next time we tell you something won't work.

[eyeball]

9 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

No he didn't.  You're understating it.

Go tell it to this guy.

 

[Moonbox]

11 hours ago, CdnFox said:

No he didn't.  You're understating it.

No, he's not.  The economists and the BoC have all weighed in on how minor the impact is.  It's just simpleminded donkeys like you who don't actually know anything about it and figure that rhyming slogans count for more than numbers, expert opinions and research.  

[CdnFox]

11 hours ago, eyeball said:

Go tell it to this guy.

 

Why? You can't refute it? You can't point to an example?  You can't even say why?

In any case, this guy says you're wrong.

You and your kind have failed. 

I get why you want to pretend that somehow someone else won."Oh we fought the good fight but unfortunately we were defeated". But that is not the truth the carbon tax has failed, you have failed. You had 10 years under correction and now you've had 10 years under Justin and your promise to fix the environment was Kyoto and the carbon tax. And the carbon tax has failed spectacularly and driven up the cost of everything significantly.

Now people will vote to get rid of it. Even the NDP is done with it.

Nobody beat you.  the problem is left wing ideology is morally and intellectually vacuous.  And you didn't listen when you were told it couldn't work - you were so sure you were right.  But you weren't. 

And now the opportunity to deal with it in a major way is out the window. You'll have to live with whatever the public is still willing to bother with, which won't make a difference.

[CdnFox]

39 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

No, he's not.  The economists and the BoC have all weighed in on how minor the impact is

The BoC - ahhh yes, the people who said inflation is transitory  

And there is no such thing as "the economists".  Sorry. THe gov't and the media asks friendly ones about it and they give the answer that the gov't wants to hear but as we just heard in the house of commons from an expert it DOES in fact have a large role to play in much of the inflation.  It stacks up, being marked up again and again .  I provided all the proof of that in the milk thread, and recently the mushroom farmer testimony in parliament highlighted it again.

I know math is hard for you so i'll keep it simple:  Without the tax, things would be cheaper. And mostly things people use the most, like heat and fuel and food.

It's that simple. Get rid of it and things can be cheaper again, and yes it will be by a noticeable amount.

Only a left wing nutjob would claim that a tax worth many billions of dollars per year doesnt' make things more expensive. "Sure we pay tax on it, but that doesn't make the price go higher! Derp!"

Edited April 15 by CdnFox

[Legato]

53 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

No, he's not.  The economists and the BoC have all weighed in on how minor the impact is.  It's just simpleminded donkeys like you who don't actually know anything about it and figure that rhyming slogans count for more than numbers, expert opinions and research.  

Party line meet toe.

[PIK]

13 hours ago, eyeball said:

He grossly exaggerated the effect of the carbon tax on inflation for starters.

Look, I've said for months you guys have won the war against action. Embrace it revel in it, you know you wanna.

And yet Poilievre just pretends he gives a shit about climate change and has a plan to deal with it.

Polls have consistently shown that a majority of Canadians are concerned about climate change and support measures to rein in rising emissions and keep the planet from warming much more than 1.5 degrees C hotter than pre-industrial levels, a tipping point after which climate-related problems become much worse.

Since the Paris accord was inked, Canada has been the worst performer in terms of reducing emissions of any member of the G7. And that is on the government of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, who proved that words are cheap. Now, at least, there seems to be a semi-credible reduction plan in place.

Mr. Poilievre is in a trickier spot. In March (2023), an Angus Reid poll showed that just 12 per cent of his supporters believe climate change is a “top issue” facing Canada. And only last year, delegates at a federal Conservative convention voted against adding “climate change is real” to the party’s policy book. That is the CPC base. But the views of that base are not aligned with the majority of Canadians.

https://archive.ph/tueFx

Poilievre seems quite aligned with his base of support and I guess we'll see what the base does when he finally announces his plan. I suppose they can always blame how much more Poilievre's plan will cost Canadians on Trudeau.  That's always an easy sell.

Today's polls say majority of Canadians say affordability is the problem. Nobody cares about CC, because of Trudeau.