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Why Trudeau Liberal's and NDP two-state solution for Israel demonstrates a complete lack of knowledge


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"The time has finally come to understand that for them, this is not a war over territory, it is a war of ideologies. The Palestinians will not settle for anything less than all the territories — including everything.

 

The textbooks in Gaza as well as in Judea and Samaria are full of lies and distortions. The poison and hatred poured into children from their infancies tragically and murderously creates another generation of young Palestinians with an infirm worldview, brainwashed into stigmatizing the Jews as Nazis.

Is there any reason not to believe the Palestinians and their leaders when they call for “Palestine from the river to the sea?” The answer is unequivocal.

If we are even to consider speaking to the Palestinians in “our language” instead of theirs, it will be when they begin changing the narrative they are teaching the next generation; when they begin raising their children with values; and when they stop turning human beings, who are born innocent, into damned terrorists.

The Palestinians have engineered the consciousness and washed the brains of their tender children for decades, turning them into robots of evil and hatred toward others and other “languages.”

WE WILL vanquish them because we have not been taught to hate; because the IDF is the most moral army in the world; and because we are a tough nation.

It is true that, as Jews, there are differences of opinion between us – as there are in any family – sometimes even major ones. Nevertheless, we have always known how to unite in times of trouble. For thousands of years, we have survived all the massacres and genocide committed against us.

We will forever reach out our hands in peace yet we will also cut off the hand of anyone who attempts to harm a single hair on our children’s heads.

What Hamas is experiencing now at the hands of the IDF is only a down payment on a long reckoning. Israel will eliminate everyone who was connected to the October 7 massacre. We have a long memory and for those who have already forgotten, let us recall that of the damned terrorists involved in the massacre of 11 Israeli athletes at the Munich 1972 Olympics, not a single one was left standing.

Neither the military tunnels of Gaza nor the luxury suites in Qatar or Turkey will be safe for them or their leaders forever. Israel’s long hand will bring them to the final reckoning."
 
 
It appears the federal NDP are in even deeper ignorance than the Liberals (if that is even possible).  The NDP has a motion to go a huge step further and recognize a Palestinian state.  Such a move is very anti-Israel and demonstrates complete ignorance.
 
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OTTAWA — MPs are set to vote Monday on an NDP motion calling on the government to officially recognize a Palestinian state, testing deep splits in Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s Liberal caucus over the Israel-Hamas war.

The motion also calls on the government to advocate for an end to what it calls the “decades-long occupation of Palestinian territories.” It calls for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and the release of all hostages, an arms embargo against Israel, unimpeded humanitarian access to Gaza and a lifting of the “arbitrary cap” on the government’s temporary resident visa applications from Gazans.

 

The House of Commons is scheduled to vote on the motion Monday afternoon.

“On Monday the NDP has a motion that it pitches as a call for a ceasefire. It does so without demanding Hamas surrender & no longer rule Gaza. it also calls for a litany of other things hostile to Israel. Changing foreign policy to reward a terrorist attack. Not smart,” said Liberal MP Anthony Housefather, on X .

The Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs launched a petition in opposition to the motion, saying it “threatens Canada’s values, foreign policy, and support of Israel, while giving Hamas what it wants: recognition and support.”   unquote

 
Edited by blackbird
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  • blackbird changed the title to Why Trudeau Liberal's and NDP two-state solution for Israel demonstrates a complete lack of knowledge

The Palestinians are as entitled to a homeland as the Israelis are. 

It seems the Israelis that were so quick to accept the UN decree for them, are not so quick to accept the UN request for the Palestinians.

I agree with the NDP on this (the only time ever I agreed with NDP)

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35 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

The Palestinians are as entitled to a homeland as the Israelis are. 

It seems the Israelis that were so quick to accept the UN decree for them, are not so quick to accept the UN request for the Palestinians.

I agree with the NDP on this (the only time ever I agreed with NDP)

The Jews were open to a two-state solution and living peacefully among the Arabs. The Palestinians have repeatedly demonstrated they are not. It is virtually certain that an independent Palestine would become a mini-Iran, and would immediately load up on heavy weapons preparatory to a full-scale attack on Israel. And based on Oct 7 it would be an invasion where every Israeli civilian in land overrun by the attackers would die.

And you wonder why they aren't quick to accept this?

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On 3/18/2024 at 3:39 AM, blackbird said:

"The time has finally come to understand that for them, this is not a war over territory, it is a war of ideologies. The Palestinians will not settle for anything less than all the territories — including everything.

The vote wasn't about territory or principle. It was about Muslim votes in Canada outnumbering Jewish votes. Nothing more, nothing less. 

Hey, Jewish community, you starting to feel a little regret about your full-throated support for mass immigration over the last fifty years?

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18 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

 The Palestinians have repeatedly demonstrated they are not.

The "Palestinians" meaning leadership or "the" people ?  Well, it's tricky.  Arafat and Rabin got to the bargaining table and started talking and it wasn't the Palestinians that killed Rabin.

The subject line is deceptive - Canada has supported a two-state solution for a long time.

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29 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

The Jews were open to a two-state solution and living peacefully among the Arabs. The Palestinians have repeatedly demonstrated they are not. It is virtually certain that an independent Palestine would become a mini-Iran, and would immediately load up on heavy weapons preparatory to a full-scale attack on Israel. And based on Oct 7 it would be an invasion where every Israeli civilian in land overrun by the attackers would die.

And you wonder why they aren't quick to accept this?

Netenhayoo never accepted the 2 state solution. In fact he vehemently rejected it.

You are assuming all Palestinians are Hamas.

Nope, I don't wonder, I just see it and hear it on TV news (many broadcasters and newspapers, not just one or 2).

Why is there world wide pro Palestine demonstrations but no or very few pro Israel demonstrations. Why are there anti netanyahoo demonstrations in Israel? Seems that netenyahoos desire to wipe out Hamas is more an effort to wipe out Palestine and Palestinian people? If it was anyone other than Israel, it would instantly be claimed as genocide.

Edited by ExFlyer
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2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

The Palestinians are as entitled to a homeland as the Israelis are. 

You just demonstrated a complete ignorance of the real situation in Israel even though it has been explained to you many times.

The Palestinians are not willing to accept Israel's right to exist and have proven this forever.  No matter what land they are given, they will never cease fighting against Israel.  That is deeply engrained in their psyche.  What is it you don't get about that?

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1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

The subject line is deceptive - Canada has supported a two-state solution for a long time.

Nothing deceptive at all.  The subject line states a simple fact which you can't understand.  You may not agree with the premise because you don't accept the reality, but there is nothing deceptive about stating the truth.  It seems some people have a mental block to reality.  The article explains it.  Perhaps you didn't bother reading it or can't understand the simple truth.  I am Groot understand the reality. 

Sadly this is strictly a partisan issue to you and you feel you must support the government's two-state policy.

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The fact is Israel is a small country in a sea of Arabs or Muslims who believe they should be eliminated.  So to carve Israel up into an even smaller piece and give their sworn enemies an area where they could arm with support from places like Iran would be suicide.

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2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

The "Palestinians" meaning leadership or "the" people ?  Well, it's tricky.  Arafat and Rabin got to the bargaining table and started talking and it wasn't the Palestinians that killed Rabin.

The subject line is deceptive - Canada has supported a two-state solution for a long time.

There is a difference between being supportive of the idea of a two state solution and 'Recognizing gaza as a nation' today. 

Obvoiusly long term the solution is either two state or one state. This 1 1/2 state crap isn't working for anyone. 

But groot is correct - as long as Palestinians are unwilling to accept and embrace the idea of israel being one of those nations then a two state solution can never work.

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2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Why is there world wide pro Palestine demonstrations but no or very few pro Israel demonstrations.

Because the palestinians are brutal thugs who use violence and intimidation to attack people. Same reason you didn't see a lot of big jewish demonstrations against the nazis back in the day in germany.  Doesn't make the germans the good guys.

Israel has come to the table to discuss 2 state solutions, israel has done things to indicate they would be open to that, gaza sent it's fighters to isreal to drive nails into women's genitals and burn babies. They've been clear they don't accept the idea of israel as a legitimate nation.

If the paletinians laid down their arms tomorrow, they'd have a 2 state solution next week. If isreal laid down it's arms tomorrow they'd have a second holocaust.

That's the hang up here. Not israel, not Netty,  it's them. Till that changes there's no point talking about it.

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35 minutes ago, blackbird said:

The fact is Israel is a small country in a sea of Arabs or Muslims who believe they should be eliminated.  So to carve Israel up into an even smaller piece and give their sworn enemies an area where they could arm with support from places like Iran would be suicide.

Damn why'd they set up shop in such a dangerous neighbourhood in the first place? 

45 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You just demonstrated a complete ignorance of the real situation in Israel even though it has been explained to you many times.

The Palestinians are not willing to accept Israel's right to exist and have proven this forever.  No matter what land they are given, they will never cease fighting against Israel.  That is deeply engrained in their psyche.  What is it you don't get about that?

Will Israel accept the Palestinians' "right to exist?" Of course not.

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2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Why is there world wide pro Palestine demonstrations but no or very few pro Israel demonstrations.

This is just a wild guess, but there are likely more pro-Palestinian demonstrations around the world because Muslims outnumber Jews about 1,250 to 1.  This vote in Parliament is nothing more than crass domestic political posturing. The NDP want the muslim vote which outnumbers the jewish vote by about 4 to 1 and solves nothing. I too would like to see a 2 state solution, but it's inconceivable seeing the two 'living side by side with dignity' (as the present government puts it) as long as an Iran backed Hamas exists.

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5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Because the palestinians are brutal thugs who use violence and intimidation to attack people. Same reason you didn't see a lot of big jewish demonstrations against the nazis back in the day in germany.  Doesn't make the germans the good guys.

This is f*cking comical. You don't see big pro-Israel demonstrations for the same reason you don't see big pro-police demonstrations; no one protests in favour of the status quo.

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Israel has come to the table to discuss 2 state solutions, israel has done things to indicate they would be open to that, gaza sent it's fighters to isreal to drive nails into women's genitals and burn babies. They've been clear they don't accept the idea of israel as a legitimate nation.

Also comical that people are still pushing this type of atrocity porn long after so many such cases have been debunked.

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If the paletinians laid down their arms tomorrow, they'd have a 2 state solution next week. If isreal laid down it's arms tomorrow they'd have a second holocaust.

Right let's ask the Palestinians in the West Bank how not resisting the occupiers has led to peace and security for them.

 

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11 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

Damn why'd they set up shop in such a dangerous neighbourhood in the first place? 

 

It was kind of set up for them.

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Will Israel accept the Palestinians' "right to exist?" Of course not.

They already said they would and were in negotiations with the Palestinian authority - till the PA decided to embrace Hamas.

Sorry kiddo but history says you're wrong.

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5 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

This is f*cking comical.

 

It's also true.  Sorry kiddo.

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Also comical that people are still pushing this type of atrocity porn long after so many such cases have been debunked.

Been absolutely proven true.

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Right let's ask the Palestinians in the West Bank how not resisting the occupiers has led to peace and security for them.

There has never been a time when the Palestinians weren't threatening israel, so we can't. The west bank has stated is full support of hamas.

Your entire schtick is based on lies. IF you have to lie to make your point then you havent' got  a very good point.

If palestine stands up and says "hamas is evil, we absolutely believe that israel should exist and that we can work together to make each country better and we will oppose ANY terrorists who try to disturb that peace", then in short order they'd have a prosperous nation of their own. they don't.

 

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3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

The "Palestinians" meaning leadership or "the" people ?  Well, it's tricky.  Arafat and Rabin got to the bargaining table and started talking and it wasn't the Palestinians that killed Rabin.

The Palestinians have never backed away from their demand to recover East Jerusalem and the 'right of return' which would effectively end Israel's existence. 

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42 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

It was kind of set up for them.

They already said they would and were in negotiations with the Palestinian authority - till the PA decided to embrace Hamas.

Sorry kiddo but history says you're wrong.

LOL, the Palestinian Authority embraced Hamas? What alternate reality are you operating in?

39 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

It's also true.  Sorry kiddo.

Been absolutely proven true.

I'd be unwilling to accept anyone's word as gospel here, but a documented liar like you doesn't get the slightest benefit of the doubt. "40 beheaded babies" was bullshit. So were the "babies in the oven". So was the "pregnant woman beheaded and her fetus removed." 

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There has never been a time when the Palestinians weren't threatening israel, so we can't.

When was the last time the people of the west bank were threatening Israel?

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The west bank has stated is full support of hamas.

 

So? There's virtually no violent resistance to the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and guess what? They're still illegally occupying the land and attacking the people there.

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Your entire schtick is based on lies. IF you have to lie to make your point then you havent' got  a very good point.

Pot, kettle.

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If palestine stands up and says "hamas is evil, we absolutely believe that israel should exist and that we can work together to make each country better and we will oppose ANY terrorists who try to disturb that peace", then in short order they'd have a prosperous nation of their own. they don't.

Again, Israel's continued occupation and annexation of the West Bank shows this is not the case.  There's no security justification for Israel to support settlement building, but they're doing it anyway because they feel like it.

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3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Netenhayoo never accepted the 2 state solution. In fact he vehemently rejected it.

Decades of terrorism have resulted in this man clinging to power for an extended period of time. Hopefully, his failures and incompetence will disprove his claims that he is the only man who can protect Israel and he'll soon be gone.

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

You are assuming all Palestinians are Hamas.

Most would vote for Hamas even today.

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Why is there world wide pro Palestine demonstrations but no or very few pro Israel demonstrations.

Gee. maybe it's the fact that there are far and away more Muslims spread out around the world than there are Jews. In countries that refused to allow large numbers of Muslims to settle, like Eastern Europe, there are few such demonstrations. Maybe it's because much of the mainstream media have put the deaths of Palestinian civilians on their front pages for six straight months now. I know that every time I open the BBC site this will be front and center. 

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Why are there anti netanyahoo demonstrations in Israel? Seems that netenyahoos desire to wipe out Hamas is more an effort to wipe out Palestine and Palestinian people? If it was anyone other than Israel, it would instantly be claimed as genocide.

Wiping out Hamas and taking away its control of Gaza is the only way the Israelis can be reasonably assured there won't be another mass assault and slaughter like Oct 7. You have another solution?

As for genocide, that accusation borders on antisemitism itself. You know what genocide is? That's where you deliberately murder every man, woman and child of a group you despise. We saw that on Oct 7. 

If Israel wanted to wipe out all the Palestinians they'd already be dead. 

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3 hours ago, blackbird said:

You just demonstrated a complete ignorance of the real situation in Israel even though it has been explained to you many times.

The Palestinians are not willing to accept Israel's right to exist and have proven this forever.  No matter what land they are given, they will never cease fighting against Israel.  That is deeply engrained in their psyche.  What is it you don't get about that?

Nope, just different perspective than you. And you certainly do not have to agree wit me, as much as disagree with almost everything you post....you are just a hypocritical christian, as I have suspected and claimed for a very long time.

Worldwide pro Palestine demonstrations show you may be on the wrong side of this and it does not matter how many jews vs how many Palestinians. LOL

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40 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

As for genocide, that accusation borders on antisemitism itself. You know what genocide is? That's where you deliberately murder every man, woman and child of a group you despise. We saw that on Oct 7. 

If Israel wanted to wipe out all the Palestinians they'd already be dead. 

Thats not what genocide is.

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Genocide is an internationally recognized crime where acts are committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. These acts fall into five categories:

  1. Killing members of the group
  2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
  3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
  4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
  5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group

 

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10 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

LOL, the Palestinian Authority embraced Hamas? What alternate reality are you operating in?

I'd be unwilling to accept anyone's word as gospel here, but a documented liar like you doesn't get the slightest benefit of the doubt. "40 beheaded babies" was bullshit. So were the "babies in the oven". So was the "pregnant woman beheaded and her fetus removed." 

When was the last time the people of the west bank were threatening Israel?

So? There's virtually no violent resistance to the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and guess what? They're still illegally occupying the land and attacking the people there.

Pot, kettle.

Again, Israel's continued occupation and annexation of the West Bank shows this is not the case.  There's no security justification for Israel to support settlement building, but they're doing it anyway because they feel like it.

Ahhh so the problem is you don't know history at all.

And you want to pretend that somehow it was ME claiming babies were killed and women were abused.  Not, like, the israels or anything 

The people of the west bank have never stopped threatening israel.

Sorry dude - you're just way under-educated for this .

Lets go slowly for you.   The palestinians, including the palestine authority embrace hamas and refuse to acknowledge israel as a legitimate country with a right to exist.  They Constantly promote terror and harassing attacks against them and hamas has provoked an open war  and hardly the first one. 

The palestinians are the problem. Until they either change their desire for genocide or they disappear there will always be conflict. 

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18 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Ahhh so the problem is you don't know history at all.

What a surprise you can't answer a simple question.

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And you want to pretend that somehow it was ME claiming babies were killed and women were abused.  Not, like, the israels or anything 

Well they lied, repeatedly and enthusiastically.1

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The people of the west bank have never stopped threatening israel.

So again, you cant actually provide any specifics.

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Lets go slowly for you.   The palestinians, including the palestine authority embrace hamas and refuse to acknowledge israel as a legitimate country with a right to exist.  They Constantly promote terror and harassing attacks against them and hamas has provoked an open war  and hardly the first one. 

Well, there's two ways to look at this. Either you're referring to the Palestine Authority Government of Gaza which is Hamas (and thus rendering your statement redundant) or you're referring to the Palestinian Authority of the West Bank, which is under Fatah (formerly the PLO) which is a mortal enemy of Hamas and has acknowledged Israel's right to exist so I guess it's up to you to decide which way you want to be wrong here.

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The palestinians are the problem. Until they either change their desire for genocide or they disappear there will always be conflict. 

i would say Israel genocidal aspirations are more of an issue than the Palestinians' at this point.1

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11 minutes ago, eyeball said:

That makes its the responsibility of the people who set it up to go clean up the mess they created.

What are you thinking - take off and nuke them from orbit? it's the only way to be sure right?  :)  

Sorry but that would be like saying that just because parents gave birth to a child theyr'e responsible for his actions after he's grown up.  There's nothing they can do - this is now between these two groups and they need to acknowledge the other one has a right to exist or this goes no where, and currently the Palestinian side is the stickers there.

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