Are Bad Grades Discriminatory?

[Guest]

I remember hearing about this while watching TV.

A Canadian school board to invite all students to graduation, citing keeping some on the sidelines isn't inclusive.

Also the term graduation, points to the haves and have nots, so commencement ceremonies are more inclusive.

This brings me to the question. 

Are grades discriminatory?

Do these enforce classism?

[Legato]

No!

[QuebecOverCanada]

(2021; Ontario Court declares that the Ontario Math Proficiency Test is Unconstitutional)

[Guest]

4 hours ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

(2021; Ontario Court declares that the Ontario Math Proficiency Test is Unconstitutional)

Oh, wow. 

Math is seen as racist to some, as Black people tend to struggle horribly.

I think kids need to learn that the world isn't a safe space. Failure isn't the end all.

Failure should be seen as an opportunity to grow. Experience.

I find it will develop kids that are so soft, that they truly would be destroyed by minor setbacks.

I mean, I went to school where there were the general students, advanced, and the fundamental learning classes. 

The latter were mocked for being low IQ.

 

[QuebecOverCanada]

On 3/12/2024 at 9:32 PM, Perspektiv said:

Oh, wow. 

Math is seen as racist to some, as Black people tend to struggle horribly.

I think kids need to learn that the world isn't a safe space. Failure isn't the end all.

Failure should be seen as an opportunity to grow. Experience.

I find it will develop kids that are so soft, that they truly would be destroyed by minor setbacks.

I mean, I went to school where there were the general students, advanced, and the fundamental learning classes. 

The latter were mocked for being low IQ.

 

A society that feminizes itself to the degree that the Canadian culture did it has its flaws and becomes too empathetic to the point where empathy is placed on things that are not needed.

[Guest]

On 3/14/2024 at 6:36 PM, QuebecOverCanada said:

A society that feminizes itself to the degree that the Canadian culture did it has its flaws and becomes too empathetic to the point where empathy is placed on things that are not needed.

At that extreme its virtue signaling masquerading as empathy.

I see it like this woke person I worker with who got offended at words like crackhead, but would get grossed out by the rank smell of urine and body odor.

Wouldn't be caught near one of these people.

Its not empathy at that level. Its literally the control of your speech. Constantly correcting your incorrect speech, and replacing it with softer words, which include everyone.

Sorry, b****h, but I curse like a mother f****r, don't like it--change the channel.

[Guest]

Also, I think it builds character to be told by a teacher you won't amount to nothing.

I had several.

Dropped out. Told I would be a failure. 

My mother taught me to know who I am, and to believe in myself.

So I used that negative energy as motivation.

I have always had a chip on my shoulder, but it was destructive. I used it for good.

I don't think that growth is possible (the recognizing I was fulfilling a prophecy by destroying my life, proving their point), if I am not exposed to a few people s******g on me and my name.

I see so many insanely narssissistic youth now, because nobody teaches anyone consequences anymore, unless you go against what you're taught.

[Yakuda]

On 3/12/2024 at 11:21 AM, Perspektiv said:

I remember hearing about this while watching TV.

A Canadian school board to invite all students to graduation, citing keeping some on the sidelines isn't inclusive.

Also the term graduation, points to the haves and have nots, so commencement ceremonies are more inclusive.

This brings me to the question. 

Are grades discriminatory?

Do these enforce classism?

No they racist.

They encourage competence. An old fashioned idea. 

[impartialobserver]

Not everybody is as resilient/perfect as the OP. Most humans if told that they are worthless from a young age.. will achieve nothing. A few detractors are expected but if it is ubiquitous.. it will seep into your way of being. With my kids, my general approach is celebrate their achievements and use the negatives as teaching moments. As for myself, I never had issues in the academic dept. It was always assumed that i would graduate, go to college, and not end in the manual labor world. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, impartialobserver said:

Not everybody is as resilient/perfect as the OP

What does this have to do with perfection?

Bad grades are like any setback, part of life.

[herbie]

Do we need protection of the stupid added to the Charter to stop "smartism" ?

[Guest]

On 3/25/2024 at 12:05 PM, impartialobserver said:

With my kids, my general approach is celebrate their achievements and use the negatives as teaching moments.

We now celebrate participation trophies socially. 

People expect something for showing up. 

Failure is only such, if failure is accepted. Thats a choice.

Choosing to see the growth opportunity in the struggle or failure, is what is being robbed from today's youth by making them so incredibly soft.

Setbacks are an opportunity to learn, but only if those opportunities are taken at face value, vs preferring to have bubble wrap put all around you and going through life trying to avoid any discomfort.

Look at the sheer (and growing) volume of kids with debilitating social anxiety issues.

 

[Guest]

On 3/27/2024 at 3:26 PM, herbie said:

Do we need protection of the stupid

If someone isn't as smart as others, I don't see the issue of their grades reflecting this.

Am not a genius, but make up for it with my determination and work ethic. Am also possessing of a low enough of an IQ to overlook certain risks and plow ahead full throttle whereas someone smarter may be far more hesitant.

A parents job is to equip their kids to succeed in life. 

Being worse at grades, isn't amounting to anything.

Am a C student.

The world is literally run by B and C students.

A students tend to be by the book. Creativity and imagination are far greater skills.

I was always told I had too much imagination by students, and professionally this has been my greatest asset.

When all else fails, I still can figure out solutions out of nothing.

We need protection from those robbing kids of growth opportunities, by raising them to be fearful of failure. Fearful of discomfort. 

Embrace the living daylights of both. Learn from each and every moment you experience it, and get and do better next time.

Failure to teach a child this, is literally sending a sheep out to slaughter in a world that won't adapt to them.

[herbie]

14 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

The world is literally run by B and C students.

and told how to by the A students.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, herbie said:

and told how to by the A students.

I run the show, as do most C students I went to high school with. 

It also doesn't jive statistically.

Look at the straight A student billionaires. You won't find many.

Someone who is that rich, is smart enough to see beyond what they are told to do, and are masters at figuring it out on their own. Something many A students will lack, who tend to be by the book.

Maybe many A students will find themselves in managerial positions or supervisory ones. But ultimately would be statistically taking orders from someone like me.

Nothing wrong with being an A student. I just don't see it being the end all, if you want high success.

[impartialobserver]

17 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

We now celebrate participation trophies socially. 

People expect something for showing up. 

Failure is only such, if failure is accepted. Thats a choice.

Choosing to see the growth opportunity in the struggle or failure, is what is being robbed from today's youth by making them so incredibly soft.

Setbacks are an opportunity to learn, but only if those opportunities are taken at face value, vs preferring to have bubble wrap put all around you and going through life trying to avoid any discomfort.

Look at the sheer (and growing) volume of kids with debilitating social anxiety issues.

 

what you conveniently leave out is some explanation. It is not just simply faulty morals. That is too convenient and almost impossible to prove. How about social media and the Internet? When I was in YMCA basketball in 1987... no one in the school knew that I never scored a single basket all year. Today.. that same reality would not be such a secret. Growing up in the pre-internet days, you left the school world at school. When you went home, that world ceased to exist or close to it. Not anymore. You can pretend that this is not the reality but your acceptance of reality is not needed. 

[Moonlight Graham]

Yes, bad grades discriminate against people who don't achieve good grades. 

[gatomontes99]

Grades are literally a measure of achievement. Are grades discrimination? Hell yes. They are discriminating between those that did do the work and those that didn't.

Some discrimination is good.

[Guest]

On 4/10/2024 at 8:13 PM, gatomontes99 said:

They are discriminating between those that did do the work and those that didn't.

You can still do the work, and not be up to par. 

I don't think the standing regarding grades is a laziness issue. I think its a learning issue.

Not all kids are equally intelligent, and this will show you which from which.

[gatomontes99]

5 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

You can still do the work, and not be up to par. 

I don't think the standing regarding grades is a laziness issue. I think its a learning issue.

Not all kids are equally intelligent, and this will show you which from which.

It's always a laziness issue. The difference isn't ability. The difference is drive. Those that want to do well, do well. Yes, some require more work than others. But what they teach in schools isn't rocket science. It is very basic. If they spend the time, regardless of theor ability, they will get it. It will happen.

Now, they are kids. So it takes parents and teachers holding them accountable because I promise that most of them just want to play. But saying or implying it isn't their fault is b.s. They can do it if they want.

[Nationalist]

This is nothing more than blatant virtue signalling. Real equality is unachievable because we are not all equal.

Equality of outcome is a destructive idea that is based on nonsense.

BTW...there is no shame in being a manual labourer. Only the most pompous of Libbies would suggest such.

[impartialobserver]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

This is nothing more than blatant virtue signalling. Real equality is unachievable because we are not all equal.

Equality of outcome is a destructive idea that is based on nonsense.

BTW...there is no shame in being a manual labourer. Only the most pompous of Libbies would suggest such.

And in your bubble, you do not realize that the generation born from the late 60's to the mid 90's was told that they needed to get the "good job". There was nothing wrong with manual labor but the narrative was that the only way that you are going to make a comfortable living AND not end up with a bad back, bad knees, or bad ankles. To get the "good job", you needed a 4 year degree. The focus of your studies was only marginally important.. it showed dedication and ability to complete a task. Well.. around 2010 the younger generation started pushing back. No longer was the 4 year degree the only way to get the "good job". 

[Nationalist]

7 hours ago, impartialobserver said:

And in your bubble, you do not realize that the generation born from the late 60's to the mid 90's was told that they needed to get the "good job". There was nothing wrong with manual labor but the narrative was that the only way that you are going to make a comfortable living AND not end up with a bad back, bad knees, or bad ankles. To get the "good job", you needed a 4 year degree. The focus of your studies was only marginally important.. it showed dedication and ability to complete a task. Well.. around 2010 the younger generation started pushing back. No longer was the 4 year degree the only way to get the "good job". 

Dumb-Dumb...I am in that age range. Went to collage, dropped out to help out in my dad's shop, never returned.

My resume includes IT admin at an embassy, writing and teaching courses for IBM, IT data center architect, IT PM and finally IT program manager.

Now I need to decide between full or semi-retirement.

[impartialobserver]

15 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Dumb-Dumb...I am in that age range. Went to collage, dropped out to help out in my dad's shop, never returned.

My resume includes IT admin at an embassy, writing and teaching courses for IBM, IT data center architect, IT PM and finally IT program manager.

Now I need to decide between full or semi-retirement.

As always, your bias gets in the way of you responding coherently.

The get a 4-year degree at all cost narrative was in response to the post-war era where a lot of society worked very hard but also had the bad back, bad knees, and such that comes with it. They wanted their kids to not be basically "washed up" by age 50 and unable to do a lot of things. The thought was that there would always be plenty of folks to do the cleaning of hotel rooms, cleaning of office buildings, landscaping, plumbing, framing, etc. It is not an achievement to be raised middle class and then end up in landscaping or repetitive factory work.. or at least that was the narrative. The tide started to turn in 2010 (data backs this up) when my generation started complaining (rightfully so) about student loans. 

[Nationalist]

13 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

As always, your bias gets in the way of you responding coherently.

The get a 4-year degree at all cost narrative was in response to the post-war era where a lot of society worked very hard but also had the bad back, bad knees, and such that comes with it. They wanted their kids to not be basically "washed up" by age 50 and unable to do a lot of things. The thought was that there would always be plenty of folks to do the cleaning of hotel rooms, cleaning of office buildings, landscaping, plumbing, framing, etc. It is not an achievement to be raised middle class and then end up in landscaping or repetitive factory work.. or at least that was the narrative. The tide started to turn in 2010 (data backs this up) when my generation started complaining (rightfully so) about student loans. 

What bias? What the hell are you getting at here? That a degree is not essential? Dude...I'm living proof of that.