Army Guy Posted November 8, 2024 Report Posted November 8, 2024 15 hours ago, Aristides said: Without solid security guarantees that will be enforced, there is no point in Ukraine to agreeing to anything because only a m*ron would expect Putin to respect them. The Ukrainians aren't id*ots, considering the previous "guarantees" were fairy tales. Whats a solid security guarantee look like....The only thing i can think of is ,Ukraine gets NATO membership, thats not going to happen, for lots of reasons, not all NATO countries agree, and it is a Russian sticking point to continue the war... or someone removes Putin and decides to withdrawal from ukraine...i don't see this happening NATO steps up its support gives Ukraine what it needs to push Russia out of Ukraine....i don't see this happening either... NATO enters the war with Russia and throws russia back ...Not going to happen... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Videospirit Posted November 8, 2024 Report Posted November 8, 2024 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: Whats a solid security guarantee look like....The only thing i can think of is ,Ukraine gets NATO membership, thats not going to happen, for lots of reasons, not all NATO countries agree, and it is a Russian sticking point to continue the war... or someone removes Putin and decides to withdrawal from ukraine...i don't see this happening NATO steps up its support gives Ukraine what it needs to push Russia out of Ukraine....i don't see this happening either... NATO enters the war with Russia and throws russia back ...Not going to happen... Even just a properly enforceable mutual defense treaty between the US or EU and Ukraine might do it, don't necessarily need all of NATO. It's not like the US doesn't have non nato allies. since it's not NATO membership it could have whatever terms both parties want, wouldn't have to obligate whoever signs it to help Ukraine reclaim occupied territory. Quote
Army Guy Posted November 8, 2024 Report Posted November 8, 2024 8 minutes ago, Videospirit said: Even just a properly enforceable mutual defense treaty between the US or EU and Ukraine might do it, don't necessarily need all of NATO. It's not like the US doesn't have non nato allies. since it's not NATO membership it could have whatever terms both parties want, wouldn't have to obligate whoever signs it to help Ukraine reclaim occupied territory. Your assuming that Ukraine is going to give up current occupied territory for a peace treaty...? If Russia is not currently concerned/ scared about NATO forces, why would parts of that organization hold any more weight , i mean you did say solid security guarantee. And if NATO can not supply Ukraine with it's military needs right now , what makes you think a sub group of that Organization would be able to....After this conflict is over Ukraine military is going to have to build from scratch a military that will prevent any future Russia assualts, going to take Billions let alone repair the damage to ukraine infra structures... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Videospirit Posted November 8, 2024 Report Posted November 8, 2024 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: Your assuming that Ukraine is going to give up current occupied territory for a peace treaty...? If Russia is not currently concerned/ scared about NATO forces, why would parts of that organization hold any more weight , i mean you did say solid security guarantee. And if NATO can not supply Ukraine with it's military needs right now , what makes you think a sub group of that Organization would be able to....After this conflict is over Ukraine military is going to have to build from scratch a military that will prevent any future Russia assualts, going to take Billions let alone repair the damage to ukraine infra structures... It doesn't seem like they're proposing a peace deal, merely a ceasefire, so they don't need to give up territory. And I'm not sure what Russia feels about a conflict with NATO, if it wasn't afraid of NATO it wouldn't have freaked out over the possibility of Ukraine joining NATO and insisted Ukraine not be allowed to join NATO as part of a peace deal. NATO could supply a hell of a lot more to Ukraine than it has been. The US could supply a hell of a lot more to Ukraine than NATO has been. Western Arms industries could easily ramp up production if western governments were willing to pay the bill upfront. Their commitment to Ukraine so far has been extremely light, a more solid alliance would change that. Quote
Army Guy Posted November 9, 2024 Report Posted November 9, 2024 3 hours ago, Videospirit said: It doesn't seem like they're proposing a peace deal, merely a ceasefire, so they don't need to give up territory. And I'm not sure what Russia feels about a conflict with NATO, if it wasn't afraid of NATO it wouldn't have freaked out over the possibility of Ukraine joining NATO and insisted Ukraine not be allowed to join NATO as part of a peace deal. NATO could supply a hell of a lot more to Ukraine than it has been. The US could supply a hell of a lot more to Ukraine than NATO has been. Western Arms industries could easily ramp up production if western governments were willing to pay the bill upfront. Their commitment to Ukraine so far has been extremely light, a more solid alliance would change that. From what Ukraine has said in the past, they are not willing to accept any loss of territory....Ukraine is hurting both in manpower and resources....So i'm not sure if anything has changed... Russia has to much invested in ukraine right now, the only way i think they would concede if Putin was dead or removed....and even then i'm not so sure.... I do agree with you NATO has not lived up to it's promises or has supplied any real game changing equipment in any real numbers that make a difference...And i don't think that is going to change any time soon....Not sure how the US election is going to change the face of the conflict ... NATO is a paper tiger....and has cashed in on the peace bonds pretty hard, and is just now scrambling to rearm itself, with some countries on a war footing already...Overwhelming it's manufacture capacity by a large number... South Korea is another question mark and could fill in where NATO is short....already debating defencive weapons only but NK soldiers could change all of that....And SK is all ready on a war footing and it's manufacturing plants already up to war time speeds. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Aristides Posted November 9, 2024 Report Posted November 9, 2024 Trump says he can end the war. How? He can pull the rug out from under Ukraine but what can he do to Russia that the US hasn't already done short of military force. My guess is he will do the former. Either the rest of NATO will have to step up even more or Ukraine will be toast and the US will be seen as an unreliable ally. 1 Quote
DUI_Offender Posted November 9, 2024 Report Posted November 9, 2024 7 hours ago, Army Guy said: Whats a solid security guarantee look like....The only thing i can think of is ,Ukraine gets NATO membership, thats not going to happen, for lots of reasons, not all NATO countries agree, and it is a Russian sticking point to continue the war... or someone removes Putin and decides to withdrawal from ukraine...i don't see this happening NATO steps up its support gives Ukraine what it needs to push Russia out of Ukraine....i don't see this happening either... NATO enters the war with Russia and throws russia back ...Not going to happen... now that Trump won, the Ukraine is not going to get support, since Trump is nothing but a Putin stooge. 24 minutes ago, Aristides said: Trump says he can end the war. How? He can pull the rug out from under Ukraine but what can he do to Russia that the US hasn't already done short of military force. My guess is he will do the former. Either the rest of NATO will have to step up even more or Ukraine will be toast and the US will be seen as an unreliable ally. Trump is going to sellout Ukraine so fast, that it will be virtually impossible to repel Russia in 2025. I also suspect Trump will give Putin classified military plans of Ukraine to Russia. 1 Quote
Army Guy Posted November 9, 2024 Report Posted November 9, 2024 3 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said: now that Trump won, the Ukraine is not going to get support, since Trump is nothing but a Putin stooge. Trump is going to sellout Ukraine so fast, that it will be virtually impossible to repel Russia in 2025. I also suspect Trump will give Putin classified military plans of Ukraine to Russia. Thats your opinion....I'm not sure what he is going to do, Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Videospirit Posted November 9, 2024 Report Posted November 9, 2024 One thing Trump cares about is his own Ego. Even if Putin does have some leverage on him, Trump isn't the type to bow to another. He also has himself in a position where, unless the Republican party agrees to impeach him he can do whatever he wants for the next over 4 years no matter what Russia leaks about him. He can easily delay any criminal trial until after his term starts, and than it will be suspended until after his term ends. While he's not committed to saving Ukraine, it's completely up in the air how generous he'll be towards Russia. What happens if he offers a deal to Ukraine, and Ukraine accepts, is unclear. Worst case scenario he offers an awful deal to Ukraine, Ukraine refuses, and Trump cuts off US support to Ukraine. Quote
User Posted November 9, 2024 Report Posted November 9, 2024 14 hours ago, Army Guy said: Thats your opinion....I'm not sure what he is going to do, LOL, you were cheering him on when it suited your purpose to troll me. Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."
DUI_Offender Posted November 9, 2024 Report Posted November 9, 2024 13 hours ago, Videospirit said: Worst case scenario he offers an awful deal to Ukraine, Ukraine refuses, and Trump cuts off US support to Ukraine. This is what is going to happen. It's been well known for years that Trump is on the Russian side. Quote
User Posted November 9, 2024 Report Posted November 9, 2024 4 hours ago, DUI_Offender said: This is what is going to happen. It's been well known for years that Trump is on the Russian side. Another outright blatant lie wrong on its face. Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."
Videospirit Posted November 9, 2024 Report Posted November 9, 2024 5 hours ago, DUI_Offender said: This is what is going to happen. It's been well known for years that Trump is on the Russian side. It's a likely scenario. Trump isn't 100% pro russia, but he is definitely a little pro Russia. Quote
Army Guy Posted November 10, 2024 Report Posted November 10, 2024 8 hours ago, User said: LOL, you were cheering him on when it suited your purpose to troll me. I wasn't cheering him on, i said he had some valid points....No one is sure what Trump is going to do, not sure what to tell you....And i was not trolling you, i was informing you of what my opinion was....you can take it or leave it.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
DUI_Offender Posted November 17, 2024 Report Posted November 17, 2024 (edited) BREAKING: President Biden has authorized Ukraine to strike Russia with US-supplied long range missiles https://x.com/spectatorindex/status/1858223725755445536 Edited November 17, 2024 by DUI_Offender Quote
Nationalist Posted December 19, 2024 Report Posted December 19, 2024 How's our little war going kids? I see Ukraine has claimed responsibility for murdering Lt Gen Igor Kirillov with a bomb in a residential neighbourhood. Oh Goodie! Europe is now preparing for all out war, Russia's response could be unusually devastating, and it looks like NATO and The West are trying everything they can to force an all out war before Trump gets to office. Is this what you all want? Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
Aristides Posted December 20, 2024 Report Posted December 20, 2024 On 11/17/2024 at 1:14 PM, DUI_Offender said: BREAKING: President Biden has authorized Ukraine to strike Russia with US-supplied long range missiles https://x.com/spectatorindex/status/1858223725755445536 Why not, Russia has been hitting Ukraine with long range missiles for two years. 1 Quote
DUI_Offender Posted December 20, 2024 Report Posted December 20, 2024 The Russian Government is in danger of collapse. Ukraine has done so much damage to Russia, that the Russian banking system is collapsing, the places where Russia has historically been involved in (Georgia, Syria, Roumania, etc), are rebelling. In one month, Donald Trump, a Russian asset, will be sworn in to the White House. That means Ukraine is one month to inflict as much damage as possible, in hopes that it will topple the Putin regime internally. Quote
User Posted December 20, 2024 Report Posted December 20, 2024 20 hours ago, Nationalist said: How's our little war going kids? I see Ukraine has claimed responsibility for murdering Lt Gen Igor Kirillov with a bomb in a residential neighbourhood. Oh Goodie! Of course, you are here defending Russia. Big surprise! 20 hours ago, Nationalist said: Europe is now preparing for all out war, Russia's response could be unusually devastating, and it looks like NATO and The West are trying everything they can to force an all out war before Trump gets to office. Is this what you all want? What we want? You are the one who supported and justified Russia going to war, making excuses for them, and cheering them on. Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."
Nationalist Posted December 20, 2024 Report Posted December 20, 2024 29 minutes ago, User said: Of course, you are here defending Russia. Big surprise! What we want? You are the one who supported and justified Russia going to war, making excuses for them, and cheering them on. Please stop with the horsesh1t User. What I "support" is life on this planet. Something that is becoming more and more precarious as each day passes. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
User Posted December 20, 2024 Report Posted December 20, 2024 7 minutes ago, Nationalist said: Please stop with the horsesh1t User. What I "support" is life on this planet. Something that is becoming more and more precarious as each day passes. If you support life on this planet, why did you cheer on Russia in this war and continue to support them, push their propaganda and justify their invasion? Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."
Nationalist Posted December 20, 2024 Report Posted December 20, 2024 Just now, User said: If you support life on this planet, why did you cheer on Russia in this war and continue to support them, push their propaganda and justify their invasion? I don't cheer on any of this bullsh1t. I don't support any of them either. What I do is refute lies being told. For instance, https://www.wsj.com/world/one-million-are-now-dead-or-injured-in-the-russia-ukraine-war-b09d04e5 https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Who+blew+up+Nordstream#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:e11fb7f4,vid:IqRKASwhDNg,st:0 https://www.cato.org/commentary/washington-helped-trigger-ukraine-war# We now know that the USA was indeed engaged in gain of function research. They and the MSM have been lying through their teeth for years. You know this full well. Yet without hesitation, you're willing to believe everything these proven liars say about Ukraine and deny any role NATO may have had in provoking Russia. IMO...Trump needs to "defund" NATO and have his administration hack out the rot in the CIA and Military with a spoon. America now has suffered 2 black-eyes and a bloody nose over this and several other "inconvenient truths" that keep surfacing. I pray that Russia has the patience to wait for Trump's inauguration before retaliating for this assassination...I pray that Trump puts an end to this madness...and I pray you and I get to see Christmas in 2025. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
User Posted December 20, 2024 Report Posted December 20, 2024 23 minutes ago, Nationalist said: I don't cheer on any of this bullsh1t. I don't support any of them either. What I do is refute lies being told. Yes, you have cheered Russia on. 24 minutes ago, Nationalist said: Yet without hesitation, you're willing to believe everything these proven liars say about Ukraine and deny any role NATO may have had in provoking Russia. Oh, surprise surprise. Here you are, once again, blaming NATO for provoking Russia. 25 minutes ago, Nationalist said: IMO...Trump needs to "defund" NATO Of course, no surprise here, you cheer on Russia, push Russian lies, and then attack America, and want them to defund NATO. Thanks for proving all my points. Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."
Nationalist Posted December 20, 2024 Report Posted December 20, 2024 3 minutes ago, User said: Yes, you have cheered Russia on. Oh, surprise surprise. Here you are, once again, blaming NATO for provoking Russia. Of course, no surprise here, you cheer on Russia, push Russian lies, and then attack America, and want them to defund NATO. Thanks for proving all my points. Thanks for proving that your supposed opposition to the endless litany of lies and deception of the establishment and institutions...is rather flakey. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
User Posted December 20, 2024 Report Posted December 20, 2024 7 minutes ago, Nationalist said: Thanks for proving that your supposed opposition to the endless litany of lies and deception of the establishment and institutions...is rather flakey. If you cared so much about lies and deception, you would not be pushing the Russian lies and deception. Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."
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