Ukraine Can't Win the War

[Nationalist]

31 minutes ago, User said:

That was not the assertion. 
 

You tried to absurdly claim a non-binding comment in negotiations that was never part of any formal agreement or informal agreement made by someone who wasn’t authorized to forge any binding agreements who later even said as much and later confirmed by the Soviets, was somehow some kind of actual binding agreement made that was violated.

 

And you wonder why nobody trusts the USA...

[User]

49 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

And you wonder why nobody trusts the USA...

No, I don’t. Plenty of people have differing levels of trust with us and again, we made no promise let alone any actual agreement to the Soviets/Russia regarding expansion. 
 

Edited October 29, 2025 by User

[SpankyMcFarland]

After the Soviet Union, Russia could have become a normal democratic European rule of law country getting itself ready for EU membership. Instead it reverted to corruption, authoritarianism and belligerence, a tragedy that may trigger the break-up of Russia itself.

[Scott75]

15 hours ago, User said:

No, I don’t. Plenty of people have differing levels of trust with us and again, we made no promise let alone any actual agreement to the Soviets/Russia regarding expansion. 
 

 

Plenty of evidence that the U.S. and other western powers did in fact make quite a few promises. They just didn't make a formal agreement. The National Security Archives has plenty of information on this from declassified documents:

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

Edited October 30, 2025 by Scott75

[Scott75]

3 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

After the Soviet Union, Russia could have become a normal democratic European rule of law country getting itself ready for EU membership. Instead it reverted to corruption, authoritarianism and belligerence, a tragedy that may trigger the break-up of Russia itself.

The U.S. actually played a key role in bringing Russia to the brink of collapse shortly after the breakup of the Soviet Union. A good article on that from the National Security Archives:

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/nato-75-russia-programs/2024-12-18/long-telegram-1990s-whose-russia-it-anyway-toward

 

Quoting the summary of the article:

**

Embassy dissent argued against U.S. push for radical economic reform

Top political officer predicted U.S. focus on markets over democratic institution-building 
would turn Russia anti-American and “adversarial”

National Security Archive wins release of long-withheld cable through FOIA lawsuit

**

[User]

6 hours ago, Scott75 said:

 

Plenty of evidence that the U.S. and other western powers did in fact make quite a few promises. They just didn't make a formal agreement. The National Security Archives has plenty of information on this from declassified documents:

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

I have already addressed this nonsense. 

[SpankyMcFarland]

9 hours ago, Scott75 said:

The U.S. actually played a key role in bringing Russia to the brink of collapse shortly after the breakup of the Soviet Union. A good article on that from the National Security Archives:

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/nato-75-russia-programs/2024-12-18/long-telegram-1990s-whose-russia-it-anyway-toward

 

Quoting the summary of the article:

**

Embassy dissent argued against U.S. push for radical economic reform

Top political officer predicted U.S. focus on markets over democratic institution-building 
would turn Russia anti-American and “adversarial”

National Security Archive wins release of long-withheld cable through FOIA lawsuit

**

Nobody stopped Russia from choosing liberal democracy. The country was not obliged to restart 19th century wars of aggression with multiple neighbours who now live in constant fear. It’s not us, it’s them. They are the problem. The idea of, say, France and Germany going to war again in the near future is ridiculous. That’s how far Europe has moved on from the likes of Russia. 

Edited October 30, 2025 by SpankyMcFarland

[herbie]

1 hour ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

The idea of, say, France and Germany going to war again in the near future is ridiculous.

With the experience in Ukraine, it should prove the ridiculousness of considering ANY Russsian involvement in European countries. France, Germany be damned. Even Finland or Poland would be a futile objective. 

[SpankyMcFarland]

I know nothing about the military side of things and I’ll readily admit there have been many false dawns there but I draw comfort from this recent assessment by Paul Warburg:

 

 

[Nationalist]

Well...there goes 10,000 Ukrainian soldiers.

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/10000-ukrainian-personnel-encircled-krasnoarmeysk-kupiansk

 

[User]

37 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Well...there goes 10,000 Ukrainian soldiers.

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/10000-ukrainian-personnel-encircled-krasnoarmeysk-kupiansk

 

Page 85, years of you pushing this nonsense now. Even if we buy this version of events that might as well be from the mouth of Putin, the conclusion is not "there goes 10,000 Ukrainian soldiers"

[Nationalist]

8 hours ago, User said:

Page 85, years of you pushing this nonsense now. Even if we buy this version of events that might as well be from the mouth of Putin, the conclusion is not "there goes 10,000 Ukrainian soldiers"

You conclude what you like. 

[Scott75]

8 hours ago, User said:

  

8 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Well...there goes 10,000 Ukrainian soldiers.

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/10000-ukrainian-personnel-encircled-krasnoarmeysk-kupiansk

Page 85, years of you pushing this nonsense now. Even if we buy this version of events that might as well be from the mouth of Putin, the conclusion is not "there goes 10,000 Ukrainian soldiers"

 

Alright, perhaps him saying "there goes 10,000 Ukrainian soldiers" wasn't -quite- right. But the title of the article itself says "10,000 Ukrainian Personnel Encircled as Russians Advance Into Krasnoarmeysk and Kupiansk Cities" and militarywatchmagine certainly isn't a Russian publication- It's American:

https://thegunzone.com/who-owns-military-watch-magazine/

 

There are some good videos on the boondoggles Ukraine has gotten into recently. Here's one focused on Pokrovsk, and it's not from someone who supports Russia, just from someone who recognizes the bad Ukrainian political decisions that led to this debacle:

 

[User]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

You conclude what you like. 

I’m stating the facts.

 

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, Scott75 said:

 

Alright, perhaps him saying "there goes 10,000 Ukrainian soldiers" wasn't -quite- right. But the title of the article itself says "10,000 Ukrainian Personnel Encircled as Russians Advance Into Krasnoarmeysk and Kupiansk Cities" and militarywatchmagine certainly isn't a Russian publication- It's American:

https://thegunzone.com/who-owns-military-watch-magazine/

 

There are some good videos on the boondoggles Ukraine has gotten into recently. Here's one focused on Pokrovsk, and it's not from someone who supports Russia, just from someone who recognizes the bad Ukrainian political decisions that led to this debacle:

 

Its a well established tactic of Russian military. Encircle the enemy and squash them. Yet over and over, the Ukranian military falls for it.

There's been so much denial about this war that I have to wonder if it's all some strange expression of patriotism or just naivete. 

Victoria Neuland and Brandon had no business messing with Ukrainian politics. Well...they poked a bear, thinking the bear was toothless...and the bear bit them all in the ass.

With over a million dead and counting...I hope Neuland roasts in Hell for what she did. As for Brandon...he's already got one foot in his new inferno home.

Too many people are willing to completely ignore the cause of this debacle. Hopefully they are not any sort of managers in private life since, basic problem solving requires honest and indepth analysis of root causes. 

This war was over before it even started and it's fairly obvious Brandon knew it. He and his merry band of demons grossly underestimated Russian capabilities and the resolve of the Russian people.

Now Trump's trying to stop the slaughter. IMO the only way he can, is to cut Ukraine off completely. However that would pi55 the European war mongers off and relations would be further strained.

In the meantime...Ukraine is running out of men.

Edited November 7, 2025 by Nationalist

[Nationalist]

20 minutes ago, User said:

I’m stating the facts.

 

Ya ya ya...your facts. The ones you make up.

In the meantime...wholesale death and destruction.

Nice facts...

Edited November 7, 2025 by Nationalist

[User]

17 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Ya ya ya...your facts. The ones you make up.

In the meantime...wholesale death and destruction.

Nice facts...

The wholesome death and destruction you cheer on. 

[Nationalist]

3 minutes ago, User said:

The wholesome death and destruction you cheer on. 

Lol...so silly.

 

[User]

5 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Lol...so silly.

 

Yes, for as long as I’ve been here and this thread, over a year, over 80 pages now, you never seem to push anything critical of Russia, ever showing their mistakes, their loss of life, ever criticizing them for continuing this war they started.

People here that know you before me, have you dead to rights literally cheering Russia on.

I have you dead to rights pushing propaganda as if you were speaking on behalf of Putin.

 

[Nationalist]

4 minutes ago, User said:

Yes, for as long as I’ve been here and this thread, over a year, over 80 pages now, you never seem to push anything critical of Russia, ever showing their mistakes, their loss of life, ever criticizing them for continuing this war they started.

People here that know you before me, have you dead to rights literally cheering Russia on.

I have you dead to rights pushing propaganda as if you were speaking on behalf of Putin.

 

Ya...you go with that.

In the meantime...and in the world of reality...Ukraine has already lost. NATO has been exposed as incapable. 

Enjoy the death throes. The failure. The abject stupidity. And hey...if some dumb jack-ass decides losing is not an option and launches nukes...

Enjoy watching the world die.

Pfft...the level of stupid surrounding this war is monumental.

[User]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

Ya...you go with that.

In the meantime...and in the world of reality...Ukraine has already lost. NATO has been exposed as incapable. 

Enjoy the death throes. The failure. The abject stupidity. And hey...if some dumb jack-ass decides losing is not an option and launches nukes...

Enjoy watching the world die.

Pfft...the level of stupid surrounding this war is monumental.

You have been saying Ukraine is losing for over a year now and declare they have lost?

You don’t live in reality or have any regard for the truth here. 
 

[Nationalist]

15 minutes ago, User said:

You have been saying Ukraine is losing for over a year now and declare they have lost?

You don’t live in reality or have any regard for the truth here. 
 

Really?

 

You really need to watch this.

[User]

3 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Really?

Yes, really. 

[Nationalist]

1 minute ago, User said:

Yes, really. 

Welll...no.

You didn't even watch the vid.

You have no interest in the truth of the matter.

Just wave the Stars and Stripes and watch the Ukrainians die for your pleasure.

[User]

12 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Welll...no.

You didn't even watch the vid.

You have no interest in the truth of the matter.

Just wave the Stars and Stripes and watch the Ukrainians die for your pleasure.

Same old stupid BS.

You are the one supporting Russia in this war. You push their propaganda. You push the lies Putin pushes to justify it. 
 

Ukrainians will stop dying if Russia stops waging war against them.