Ukraine Can't Win the War

[User]

Just now, eyeball said:

They're not asinine, they're in line with what billions around the world can see as clear as day just about anytime Trump opens his mouth about the war.

LOL, first you tried to claim "we all" but very quickly and cowardly backed out of that when I asked if you were included, and now you think you speak for "billions around the world"

Almost everything you say here is asinine and absurd. 

[SpankyMcFarland]

Ukraine may have to make painful compromises regarding territory already taken by the invader but must receive credible protection from further Russian aggression in return. The Russians will take what they can no matter what they promise. 

[John Stone]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

They're not asinine, they're in line with what billions around the world can see as clear as day just about anytime Trump opens his mouth about the war.

Americans overwhelmingly support Ukraine - what is to be hoped is that the West is not sowing the wind by denying them what they need now. 

Ukraine, and particularly it's leader(s) have been vilified, condemned, bullied, insulted, accused and ridiculed - needlessly. 

There is an ulterior motive ........ oh yes ........ and it has nothing to do with saving lives.... that is the stalking horse.  

[eyeball]

4 hours ago, User said:

LOL, first you tried to claim "we all" but very quickly and cowardly backed out of that when I asked if you were included,

I said that meant Ukraine's allies and friends of course that includes me. I also said that doesn't include US. Why the hell would I back away from that?

4 hours ago, User said:

and now you think you speak for "billions around the world"

Speak? Nope. Virtually anyone I've ever talked with about this refer back to last February when Trump stabbed Zelensky and the Ukraine in the back. I mean that was absolutely disgraceful.

4 hours ago, User said:

Almost everything you say here is asinine and absurd. 

Just almost? It must be our shared disdain for the COVID dingbats...oddly enough a good number of them are also dingbats about Ukraine and appear to stump for Putin and the way Trump is dealing with him.

So many of today's right wingers are all over the fùcking map it seems. I guess it comes from forever trying to keep up with Trump no matter what. None of you who do can think straight.

[User]

Just now, eyeball said:

I said that meant Ukraine's allies and friends of course that includes me. I also said that doesn't include US. Why the hell would I back away from that?

No, it doesn't include you... you are not in Ukraine helping. You are an internet warrior, all talk.

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

Speak? Nope. Virtually anyone I've ever talked with about this refer back to last February when Trump stabbed Zelensky and the Ukraine in the back. I mean that was absolutely disgraceful.

Have you talked with billions of people around the world?! ROFL

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Just almost?

I was being generous. 

 

[eyeball]

2 minutes ago, User said:

You are an internet warrior, all talk.

Pot meet kettle.

3 minutes ago, User said:

Have you talked with billions of people around the world?! ROFL

I talk with lots of people from everywhere around the world.  Everyone is just as gobsmacked at how well things are turning out for Putin with Trump negotiating on Ukraine's behalf.

9 minutes ago, User said:

I was being generous.

It's more doubt than you should expect from me - yer a fricken' mess man.

[User]

Just now, eyeball said:

Pot meet kettle.

I am not the one saying "we all"

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

I talk with lots of people from everywhere around the world.  Everyone is just as gobsmacked at how well things are turning out for Putin with Trump negotiating on Ukraine's behalf.

Have you talked with billions of people around the world?! ROFL

 

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, John Stone said:

Americans overwhelmingly support Ukraine

It sure doesn't look like it.

3 hours ago, John Stone said:

what is to be hoped is that the West is not sowing the wind by denying them what they need now.

It's a little late for that, Trump's deference to Putin is practically a license and an invitation to every other dictatorship to apply for one.

3 hours ago, John Stone said:

Ukraine, and particularly it's leader(s) have been vilified, condemned, bullied, insulted, accused and ridiculed - needlessly.

Yup.

3 hours ago, John Stone said:

There is an ulterior motive ........ oh yes ........ and it has nothing to do with saving lives.... that is the stalking horse. 

Do mean hiding behind a horse to sneak up on prey or something more politically Machiavellian?

All I know is that Trump and Putin are both a couple of sneaky bastards who no one can afford to trust.

Being caught between them must really really suck.

Edited December 1, 2025 by eyeball

[eyeball]

28 minutes ago, User said:

I am not the one saying "we all"

I know, I am.

31 minutes ago, User said:

Have you talked with billions of people around the world?! ROFL

No just a very healthy sample of several hundred...I deal with dozens of people from different countries everyday at work, thousands throughout the year. I have lots of opportunities for listening to what people from around the world have to say.

Just as an aside...of the thousands and thousands of different hats I see people wearing I've yet to see a single MAGA hat. Not a single one in all these years.

 

[User]

20 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I know, I am.

Do you walk in a lot of circles, too? Like, you go to the fridge but find yourself spinning around on the way there?

21 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No just a very healthy sample of several hundred...

Whew! You have gone from billions to a few hundred. LOL

 

[John Stone]

10 hours ago, eyeball said:

It sure doesn't look like it.

It's a little late for that, Trump's deference to Putin is practically a license and an invitation to every other dictatorship to apply for one.

Yup.

Do mean hiding behind a horse to sneak up on prey or something more politically Machiavellian?

All I know is that Trump and Putin are both a couple of sneaky bastards who no one can afford to trust.

Being caught between them must really really suck.

.......... the stalking horse is the humanitarian rhetoric used to support the so-called, "Peace Talks'? 

Trumps goal is very likely centered on financial gain .......... economic 'deals' with Putin and his oligarchs?

Same-same with Venezuela - regime change, baby .............a puppet that favors Trump / family in particular.

Middle East? 

[Nationalist]

If The Green T-Shirt thinks Ukraine must fight on...and if the Ukrainian people dont assassinate him, let them fight...

WITHOUT MY MONEY!

When the dust finally settles, the ethnic Russian third of that land will be part of Russia. The question is, will Russia have to kill all those Ukrainian men who have not run away or surrendered?

[eyeball]

13 hours ago, User said:

Do you walk in a lot of circles, too? Like, you go to the fridge but find yourself spinning around on the way there?

Nope.

13 hours ago, User said:

Whew! You have gone from billions to a few hundred. LOL

Yup.

[User]

3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

If The Green T-Shirt thinks Ukraine must fight on...and if the Ukrainian people dont assassinate him, let them fight...

 

It’s not about Ukraine choosing to fight on as if they are the ones continuing the war. Russia is invading them. 

Ukraine is fighting back to defend themselves.

The war could be over today if Russia simply stops invading.

 

 

 

[eyeball]

4 hours ago, John Stone said:

.......... the stalking horse is the humanitarian rhetoric used to support the so-called, "Peace Talks'? 

Trumps goal is very likely centered on financial gain .......... economic 'deals' with Putin and his oligarchs?

Same-same with Venezuela - regime change, baby .............a puppet that favors Trump / family in particular.

Middle East? 

Sure, that's to be expected too, but this just makes the spectacle all the more pathetic.

[Nationalist]

7 minutes ago, User said:

It’s not about Ukraine choosing to fight on as if they are the ones continuing the war. Russia is invading them. 

Ukraine is fighting back to defend themselves.

The war could be over today if Russia simply stops invading.

 

 

 

Ya...Russia's gonna stop and just go home.

[User]

Just now, Nationalist said:

Ya...Russia's gonna stop and just go home.

Yet you expect Ukraine to just surrender and give up? As if they are the ones guilty for prolonging this war unnecessarily? 

The onus here is on Russia, they are the aggressors. 

[Nationalist]

8 minutes ago, User said:

Yet you expect Ukraine to just surrender and give up? As if they are the ones guilty for prolonging this war unnecessarily? 

The onus here is on Russia, they are the aggressors. 

You sure do have selective memory.

Who was it that orchestrated a coup in Ukraine in 2014?

When did the fighting start in East Ukraine?

Trump may be about to cut The Green T-Shirt off. They have lost most of their military.

The Russians are advancing at will now.

Any arms sent to Ukraine, get blowed up real good.

If you're not willing to go fight...and none of the war-hawks are...then what would you suggest?

Aggressors or not...and that is VERY debatable...Ukraine is gassed...out of men...unable to defend their country. Without troops, they can't possibly win Jack-Shit.

But you could go fight. No? What a surprise...

[User]

21 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

You sure do have selective memory.

Who was it that orchestrated a coup in Ukraine in 2014?

When did the fighting start in East Ukraine?

 

My memory is not selective at all. 
 

What does the revolution in 2014 have to do with Russia invading?

The fighting started in East Ukraine when Russia started their shadow war there, funding and pushing separatists elements, and then outright supplementing them with Russian forces. 
 

25 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

The Russians are advancing at will now.

You are posting an obvious lie. If Russia were advancing at will right now, they would be in Kiev and have full control over Ukraine….

26 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Aggressors or not...and that is VERY debatable..

Not debatable. You can certainly deny the obvious like you do, but you don’t offer any actual debate. You just push obvious lies, baseless assertions, that are easily proven wrong with the actual facts. 

 

30 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

But you could go fight. No? What a surprise...

Why are you not on the front lines fighting with Russia? 

[SpankyMcFarland]

A reasonable fear for Ukraine longer term is a slow-motion version of the South Vietnamese example where a deal is signed with weak security guarantees and the world then looks away as much or all of the country is gradually gobbled up. Democracies are wonderful in many ways but they naturally avoid involvement with war once peace has been declared. They’ll procrastinate as long as possible, sometimes too long. 

Edited December 1, 2025 by SpankyMcFarland

[John Stone]

1 hour ago, User said:

My memory is not selective at all. 
 

What does the revolution in 2014 have to do with Russia invading?

The fighting started in East Ukraine when Russia started their shadow war there, funding and pushing separatists elements, and then outright supplementing them with Russian forces. 
 

You are posting an obvious lie. If Russia were advancing at will right now, they would be in Kiev and have full control over Ukraine….

Not debatable. You can certainly deny the obvious like you do, but you don’t offer any actual debate. You just push obvious lies, baseless assertions, that are easily proven wrong with the actual facts. 

 

Why are you not on the front lines fighting with Russia? 

What does the revolution in 2014 have to do with Russia invading?

Crimea and later Donbas were akin to the Nazi play occupying the Sudetenland in 1938? Russia basically occupied Crimea - held a referendum and voila a bit later Russia annexed the territory.  (Obama)

Russia then shifted targets to the Donbas - same play - arguing that Russian speaking citizens were being persecuted by the Ukraine authorities - brush fires sprung up between Ukraine forces and (supposedly) Russian speaking citizens (Spetsnaz)  in the region claiming persecution. In sympathy Russia deployed peacekeeping troop  (invasion of 2022).  

Ukraine doe not  need troops - they're lions.  Ukraine needs technology to encourage Putin to come to the table  - an Armistice would likely be the result.  Not happening. 

[Moonbox]

On 11/28/2025 at 2:36 PM, User said:

Except that is half of what you proposed, is his saying some stupid things. Ukraine is not entitled to our support and Zelensky undermined Trump in the Whitehouse. The threats were to let him know he doesn't just get our support no matter what, and guess what? It was resumed. 

Riiight.  The best way for the US to let Zelensky know he wasn't "entitled" to American support was to publicly validate years of Putin's propaganda and his justification for the war.  That makes SO MUCH SENSE. 🤣

Thank you again for proving your devotion to Great Orange Leader, and what a ridiculous person you are.  

On 11/28/2025 at 2:36 PM, User said:

Notice how, instead of dealing with what lies you said, you ignore them. You are called a liar, because you lied.

Is that how this works?  Here, let me try this juvenile, proof-by-assertion line of reasoning:

You are called a Trump sycophant because you are one.  You constantly debase yourself defending even the dumbest and most ridiculous shit he does and says (see previous quote).  

On 11/28/2025 at 2:36 PM, User said:

Instead of dealing with that you want to cry about being called a liar. 

Stop lying. Be a man, own up to what you said and admit you were wrong. 

Be a man and scroll back to my last post.  This will confirm not only how much of a shameless liar you are (since I directly "deal" with your accusations there), but also highlights how compulsively you short-circuit and start screeching vaguely about lies when you don't like where a debate is going, as you have a 1000+ times before on this forum.  

Edited December 1, 2025 by Moonbox

[User]

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Riiight.  The best way for the US to let Zelensky know he wasn't "entitled" to American support was to publicly validate years of Putin's propaganda and his justification for the war.  That makes SO MUCH SENSE. 🤣

Thank you again for proving your devotion to Great Orange Leader, and what a ridiculous person you are.  

It was pretty obvious I was responding to your point on pulling aid/support, which was immediately resumed.

I wasn’t claiming Trump said those things as response to Zelensky’s entitlement attitude.

Ive already conceded what Trump said was dumb, and he has since walked back most if not all of that and isn’t still saying it. 
 

You want to ignore years of support, years of Trump standing up to Putin, and pretend a couple of stupid comments that are long gone are the only thing to judge Trump by. 
 

This isn’t an issue of my devotion, it’s your inability to argue earnestly because you must hate Trump. 
 

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Is that how this works?  Here, let me try this juvenile, proof-by-assertion line of reasoning:

Once again, you made a claim of material fact about how I posted here… you didn’t just subjectively call me a sycophant.

You keep ignoring that point because you are a liar and will do just about anything other than own up to what you said being wrong. 
 

[SpankyMcFarland]

Billionaires like to sell the notion that they make for better politicians because they don’t need anybody else’s money to win office and are also immune to such temptations while running the country. This has turned out not to be the case. Witkoff and Kushner are involved in peace negotiations that could make shedloads of money for themselves and other oligarchs on both sides. It’s just the quantity that’s different from your regular pol. Brown envelopes simply do not suffice. Forget about the funny languages, the history, army sizes, missile strikes, child kidnapping, blah, blah, blah and whether Ukraine survives or not - there are big, beautiful deals to be made on oil, gas and those trendy rare earth metals. 

 

[Moonbox]

16 hours ago, User said:

You want to ignore years of support, years of Trump standing up to Putin, and pretend a couple of stupid comments that are long gone are the only thing to judge Trump by. 

Except what you describe as a "couple of stupid comments" are in fact a misinformation campaign meant to gaslight American voters and undermine US support for Ukraine.  Rather than a "couple of stupid comments", we're talking about an impressive list of deliberate and shameless lies that Trump has told that have been propaganda gifts to Putin.

Saying Ukraine started the war wasn't just a stupid comment.  It was a brazen lie.

Calling Zelensky a dictator without elections was a also a lie.  

Trump saying Zelensky had a 4% approval rating was another shameless lie - a total fabrication. 

He also grossly exaggerated how much aid the US provided (by a factor of ~2x) and then claimed that Zelensky said he didn't know where half of that money had gone -  more shameless, pathetic lying.  

Just one of the above lies is enough to torpedo Trump's credibility on Ukraine.  All of them together paid a painfully clear picture.  He's either losing his mind, or he's so maliciously dishonest that nobody should trust him.  

Fortunately, most of the Free World sees through his BS.  Even most Americans see through it, with the last Gallop poll giving him a 31% approval on his handling of Ukraine.  Congratulations on being amongst the small percentage of absolute fools in the MAGA circus who still believe a President who can't even bring himself to say he'd like to see Ukraine win, actually wants that.  👍