The House Republicans keep torpedoeing the assistance to Ukraine at one of the most critical points in the Putin's war on freedom

WestCanMan · February 5, 2024

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

NATO is 31 countries. Another conspiracy theory where multiple governments and their employees all have to lie so it will never get out. Fat chance. Russia has spy satellites too.

I guess NATO can't keep secrets?

I guess the US wouldn't take it upon themselves to just sneak them in?

Spy satellites?

FYI nuclear warheads don't have to have "NUKULAR WARHEDS" written on them with Biden's own crayons. They don't have to be in huge silos like the monster ICBMs. They can be put into cruise missiles, hypersonic missiles, etc.

With NATO security in Ukraine the US could be quite comfortable hiding things there.

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Which US military invaded Cuba? When did the US bomb Cuba? Bay of Pigs was a CIA backed invasion by Cubans. American forces were never on the ground or attack Cuba.

So what?

Are you acting like that doesn't count now? You don't think Cuba had any reason to feel the need to defend themselves at that point?

You were trying to make the case for countries to get nukes as a deterrent to Russia. Cuba had that exact need, written in blood.

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There are no NATO nukes based in Eastern Europe.

Thanks. Now I know 🤣

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Right now the only NATO countries bordering Russia are the Baltic States and now Finland due to this invasion. If Russia takes Ukraine they will have four more, Poland, Slovakia, Hungary and Romania. Is Russia going to invade all them as well. Ukraine has shown how important NATO is to the survival of former Soviet Bloc countries.

Stop citing your own paranoid delusions as being Putin's own plans.

On the one hand "you just know where the US has all their nukes" and on the other "you already know what Putin is planning".

Leave your guesses out of this.

Aristides · February 5, 2024

42 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I guess NATO can't keep secrets?

I guess the US wouldn't take it upon themselves to just sneak them in?

Spy satellites?

FYI nuclear warheads don't have to have "NUKULAR WARHEDS" written on them with Biden's own crayons. They don't have to be in huge silos like the monster ICBMs. They can be put into cruise missiles, hypersonic missiles, etc.

With NATO security in Ukraine the US could be quite comfortable hiding things there.

You are acting like 31 governments can keep a secret with no one leaking it. The US doesn't get to stick nukes anywhere it wants, they have to get the country's permission. But if you want to play that game, if Putin takes Ukraine, NATO will have five more countries bordering Russia to put nukes.

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So what?

Are you acting like that doesn't count now? You don't think Cuba had any reason to feel the need to defend themselves at that point?

You were trying to make the case for countries to get nukes as a deterrent to Russia. Cuba had that exact need, written in blood.

When have US forces ever attacked Cuba, with or without nukes?

WestCanMan · February 5, 2024

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

You are acting like 31 governments can keep a secret with no one leaking it.

Again, who says the US is going to tell the rest of NATO everything? I promise you they don't.

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The US doesn't get to stick nukes anywhere it wants, they have to get the country's permission.

It doesn't matter if they don't have them there in 2025, when Trump is president and everything is peachy keen. Or even the next 30 years for that matter. If the day comes that Ukraine wants nukes there, they're a phone call away. If Ukraine is in NATO, it will be easy to get the nukes in and Russia can't prevent it.

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But if you want to play that game, if Putin takes Ukraine, NATO will have five more countries bordering Russia to put nukes.

Russia's not taking over all of Ukraine.

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When have US forces ever attacked Cuba, with or without nukes?

Stop playing stupid. I already told you when the Bay of Pigs invasion was.

US planes were used to drop US gov't bombs on Cuban runways. The US financed and planned that whole thing. Cuba was invaded with real American assault weapons firing American bullets at Cubans, American hand grenades were thrown, all with the actual intention of overthrowing the gov't for real.

This is not to be confused with some bulls1t 'insurrection' where the deadliest weapon was a fire extinguisher, dummy.

By your own standard, Cuba had every reason to get nukes to defend themselves from America.

You were hoisted on your own petard because you're historically and geopolitically clueless.

robosmith · February 5, 2024

20 hours ago, Aristides said:

NATO has no nukes in Eastern Europe, let alone the missiles to carry them.

Bullshit, Putin wants Donbas, Luhansk, Crimea and anything else he can get.

Malaysia 17 was shot down with a Russian supplied missile in 2014. In all likelihood fired by Russians operating with Donbas rebels.

What Putin really wants is the huge gas reserves off the South coast of Ukraine/Crimea.

It's really clear that kleptocrat Putin fears future competition from Ukraine in the European gas market.

What I find strange is that there are very few reports about that; probably cause it's only POTENTIAL at this point and requires development.

Aristides · February 5, 2024

56 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Again, who says the US is going to tell the rest of NATO everything? I promise you they don't.

So the US is going to hide nuclear warheads and missiles in other countries without their knowledge or consent? You really have gone down the conspiracy rabbit hole.

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It doesn't matter if they don't have them there in 2025, when Trump is president and everything is peachy keen. Or even the next 30 years for that matter. If the day comes that Ukraine wants nukes there, they're a phone call away. If Ukraine is in NATO, it will be easy to get the nukes in and Russia can't prevent it.

Things were peachy keen until Putin started pushing his weight around. Nuclear missiles were removed from Europe when the Iron Curtain came down and only a few low yield bombs are stored in Europe to be carried by fighter bombers. That was over 30 years ago. Trump had SFA to do with that.

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Russia's not taking over all of Ukraine.

Putin will take anything he can get.

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Stop playing stupid. I already told you when the Bay of Pigs invasion was.

US planes were used to drop US gov't bombs on Cuban runways. The US financed and planned that whole thing. Cuba was invaded with real American assault weapons firing American bullets at Cubans, American hand grenades were thrown, all with the actual intention of overthrowing the gov't for real.

This is not to be confused with some bulls1t 'insurrection' where the deadliest weapon was a fire extinguisher, dummy.

By your own standard, Cuba had every reason to get nukes to defend themselves from America.

The US didn't drop anything on Cuba. The Bay of Pigs airforce consisted of a few WW2 vintage B-26 bombers.

And yet over 60 years later, the US still hasn't attacked Cuba even though Cuba hasn't had the Russians to cover their backs for over 30 years.

Edited February 6, 2024 by Aristides

robosmith · February 5, 2024

16 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

If you had any idea what like was like in Germany, especially Berlin, from 1955-1990, you'd know why this war is happening.

If you knew about the huge Ukraine gas reserves, you'd have much better understanding of "why this war is happening."

robosmith · February 6, 2024

6 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

How the f would you know that?

How do you know what NATO could hide in Ukraine once they get set up there?

Stop acting like we're Leave It To Beaver and everyone can just trust us forever. The Russians don't trust NATO and why would they? 100M Americans don't even trust Joe Biden.

Blahblahblah. Then they tried to join NATO.

Guess what happened to Cuba in 1961... (of course you don't know, dummy, so I'll tell you: Bay of Pigs Invasion - USA)

Guess what kind of weapons they started getting... (of course you don't know, dummy, so I'll tell you: nukes)

Guess what happened to Cuba in 1962... (of course you don't know, dummy, so I'll tell you: Cuban missile crisis - the Americans almost started WWIII because they wanted the nukes gone)

Buddy, your historical ignorance and stupidity are on full display here every time you open your mouth.

You're not talking like someone with historical and geopolitical awareness, you're just regurgitating CNN/Demi propaganda.

Russia won't have NATO there. Their current gov't will have to completely capitulate in order for that to happen, and I don't think Russians have a history of capitulating. If you had any historical and geopolitical awareness I wouldn't have to tell you that.

Because of Putin's Ukraine invasion, the number of NATO nations on Russia's border has GROWN SUBSTANTIALLY.

Hodad · February 6, 2024

6 minutes ago, Aristides said:

So the US is going to hide nuclear warheads and missiles in other countries without their knowledge or consent? You really have gone down the conspiracy rabbit hole.

Things were peachy keen until Putin started pushing his weight around. Nuclear missiles were removed from Europe when the Iron Curtain came down and only a few low yield bombs are stored in Europe to be carried by fighter bombers. That was over 30 years ago. Trump had SFA to do with that.

Putin will take anything he can get.

The US didn't drop anything on Cuba. The Bay of Pigs airforce consisted of a few WW2 vintage B-26 bombers.

Disagree. He has not gone down the conspiracy rabbit hole.

He actually lives down there, near the bottom, and occasionally pops UP high enough to get wifi and post through the use of some sort of periscope device.

Edited February 6, 2024 by Hodad

robosmith · February 6, 2024

6 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

We also told Russia that NATO wouldn't extend 1 inch past Germany. Where is NATO now myata?

You look at everything through a prism where you only see 1 set of transgressions, and where your side is universally known to be all goodness and light and the other side just has huge fangs and a lust for blood and rape.

You need a side of wisdom to go along with your wrinkles.

And Russia guaranteed Ukraine's security (Budapest Memorandum) in WRITING. Putin thought he could control a puppet running Ukraine and the war is his response when that FAILED.

US is all that's left of the Budapest security guarantees.

6 hours ago, myata said:

Don't lie.

There was a verbal promise, but that was before Russia broke it's written agreement to guarantee Ukraine's security.

OftenWrong · February 6, 2024

10 minutes ago, robosmith said:

What I find strange is that there are very few reports about that; probably cause it's only POTENTIAL at this point and requires development.

Or perhaps because it's a steaming cauldron of 100% pure bs?

robosmith · February 6, 2024

6 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

F-off myata.

Next time do a quick Google search or read the thread to look for info instead of accusing someone of lying. My name isn't Rebound, eyeball, ex-flyer, Black Dog or robo:

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/newly-declassified-documents-gorbachev-told-nato-wouldnt-23629

Russian leaders often complain that the NATO extended an invitation to Hungary, Poland and what was then Czechoslovakia to joint the alliance in 1997 at the Madrid Summit in contravention of assurances offered to the Soviet Union before its 1991 collapse. The alliance has dismissed the notion that such assurances were offered, however, scholars have continued to debate the issue for years. Now, however, newly declassified documents show that Gorbachev did in fact receive assurances that NATO would not expand past East Germany.

One more thing: don't you think it's weird that your news "sources" didn't give you that 'little' tidbit of info this whole time? And that they don't mention the Obama/Biden era talks about NATO in Ukraine? Hmmmmmm....

So you found a blog that makes ALLEGATIONS. Where is the written agreement, let alone a treaty?

Hodad · February 6, 2024

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

Again, who says the US is going to tell the rest of NATO everything? I promise you they don't.

It doesn't matter if they don't have them there in 2025, when Trump is president and everything is peachy keen. Or even the next 30 years for that matter. If the day comes that Ukraine wants nukes there, they're a phone call away. If Ukraine is in NATO, it will be easy to get the nukes in and Russia can't prevent it.

Russia's not taking over all of Ukraine.

Stop playing stupid. I already told you when the Bay of Pigs invasion was.

US planes were used to drop US gov't bombs on Cuban runways. The US financed and planned that whole thing. Cuba was invaded with real American assault weapons firing American bullets at Cubans, American hand grenades were thrown, all with the actual intention of overthrowing the gov't for real.

This is not to be confused with some bulls1t 'insurrection' where the deadliest weapon was a fire extinguisher, dummy.

By your own standard, Cuba had every reason to get nukes to defend themselves from America.

You were hoisted on your own petard because you're historically and geopolitically clueless.

Yeah, sure. Of course you believe that any country who flirts with NATO deserves to be invaded by Russia. Just as you believe that any woman who flirts with Trump deserves to be raped.

It's really just a whole theme with you, isn't it?

robosmith · February 6, 2024

23 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Or perhaps because it's a steaming cauldron of 100% pure bs?

Did you even bother to look for EVIDENCE?

Where are the Ukrainian gas reserves located?

In Europe, Ukraine ranks second for gas reserves. Three Ukrainian regions contain hydrocarbons resources: the Dnipro-Donetsk basin, the Carpathian region in western Ukraine, and the Black Sea and Crimea region in the south.

Energy Resource Guide - Ukraine - Oil and Gas

Duh

WestCanMan · February 6, 2024

22 minutes ago, Aristides said:

So the US is going to hide nuclear warheads and missiles in other countries without their knowledge or consent? You really have gone down the conspiracy rabbit hole.

I never said "Without Ukraine's consent", I said without informing everyone else in NATO.

Do you think the US informs Turkey before they do anything?

They didn't even communicate with their NATO partners to coordinate the Afghan withdrawal, dummy.

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Things were peachy keen until Putin started pushing his weight around. Nuclear missiles were removed from Europe when the Iron Curtain came down and only a few low yield bombs are stored in Europe to be carried by fighter bombers. That was over 30 years ago. Trump had SFA to do with that.

Things were peachy keen until Obama/Biden started their carpet-bagging campaign in Ukraine, trying to "fight corruption so that Ukraine could join NATO".

Things were also peachy keen when Trump was president.

As soon as 4 Years at Bernie's got into the WH there was a major war.

Not sure why we're rehashing that. It's all common knowledge.

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Putin will take anything he can get.

Any leader with a brain would do whatever they could to prevent an aggressive, hostile military alliance like NATO from planting themselves on your doorstep.

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The US didn't drop anything on Cuba. The Bay of Pigs airforce consisted of a few WW2 vintage B-26 bombers.

US-owned planes dropped US-owned bombs on Cuban runways. Cubans didn't even pay for the gas to fly those planes. Theoretically the pilots were Cuban, but how can we even know for sure?

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And yet over 60 years later, the US still hasn't attacked Cuba even though Cuba hasn't had the Russians to cover their backs for over 30 years.

What does that have to do with anything?

You said: "If Putin keeps invading neighbours, there definitely will be nukes in future", completely oblivious to the fact that Cuba had THAT EXACT REASON for getting nukes after 1961.

You keep wanting to pretend that Kennedy's reasons aren't Putin's reasons and yet here you are drawing this exact parallel about collecting nukes as a deterrent to aggression.

The last 30 years have nothing to do with decisions made by Cuba in the immediate aftermath of the American-financed and armed revolution against them. Do you think they knew for sure what would happen there in 2024, dummy?

Aristides · February 6, 2024

7 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I never said "Without Ukraine's consent", I said without informing everyone else in NATO.

Do you think the US informs Turkey before they do anything?

They didn't even communicate with their NATO partners to coordinate the Afghan withdrawal, dummy.

Things were peachy keen until Obama/Biden started their carpet-bagging campaign in Ukraine, trying to "fight corruption so that Ukraine could join NATO".

Things were also peachy keen when Trump was president.

As soon as 4 Years at Bernie's got into the WH there was a major war.

Not sure why we're rehashing that. It's all common knowledge.

Any leader with a brain would do whatever they could to prevent an aggressive, hostile military alliance like NATO from planting themselves on your doorstep.

US-owned planes dropped US-owned bombs on Cuban runways. Cubans didn't even pay for the gas to fly those planes. Theoretically the pilots were Cuban, but how can we even know for sure?

What does that have to do with anything?

You said: "If Putin keeps invading neighbours, there definitely will be nukes in future", completely oblivious to the fact that Cuba had THAT EXACT REASON for getting nukes after 1961.

You keep wanting to pretend that Kennedy's reasons aren't Putin's reasons and yet here you are drawing this exact parallel about collecting nukes as a deterrent to aggression.

The last 30 years have nothing to do with decisions made by Cuba in the immediate aftermath of the American-financed and armed revolution against them. Do you think they knew for sure what would happen there in 2024, dummy?

So you think the US can install missiles and nukes on Turkish soil without Turkey knowing about it? You really do live down a rabbit hole.

For the last time: A: the US never invaded Cuba, if they had, Castro would have been history. Even though Cuba lost Russian support in 1989, the US still hasn't attacked Cuba.

godzilla · February 6, 2024

unbelievable the mental hoops that MAGA GOP supporters have to jump through on this one.

you can ask over and over "why does Trump want to help Putin?" all day long, and they won't come up with an answer. because Trump has not said why. he doesn't say why. and so, his alias don't say why.

Hodad · February 6, 2024

3 minutes ago, Aristides said:

So you think the US can install missiles and nukes on Turkish soil without Turkey knowing about it? You really do live down a rabbit hole.

For the last time: A: the US never invaded Cuba, if they had, Castro would have been history. Even though Cuba lost Russian support in 1989, the US still hasn't attacked Cuba.

On July 16, 1945 the US acquired all the power it would have needed to conquer the world. Yet, here we are, in basically the same configuration. I don't think anyone has cause to fear American expansion.

Aristides · February 6, 2024

If the US is capable of everything it is accused of and intended to use all those magical powers, it should have conquered the world a long time ago.

robosmith · February 6, 2024

5 hours ago, Hodad said:

On July 16, 1945 the US acquired all the power it would have needed to conquer the world. Yet, here we are, in basically the same configuration. I don't think anyone has cause to fear American expansion.

They don't necessarily fear military expansion, it's more a fear of economic domination.

However, Russia did suffer a brutal military blow from the Germans in WWII with 20M dead.

myata · February 6, 2024

Let's remind once again, if only to those who can still observe the reality and think with their own brain.

1, There's no logical connection between the security of Ukraine, Israel and the southern border of the U.S. Yes you can pursue the safest border ever but it doesn't have to block crucial, life-sustaining aid to the nations fighting for their very existence. That connection does not exist in the reality. It was created by the lying Republican leaders for the one, sole purpose: to promote the agenda of the lying buffoon. Hostage politicking in its purest, ugliest form: nothing to do with responsible democratic politics.

2, this is no charity. The U.S. was one of the guarantors of Ukraine's security and sovereignty when she agreed to give up her nukes and other strategic armaments. The credibility of the U.S. is at stake here. Having seen this, no one in their right mind would agree, ever to give up their nukes.

3, the Axis of tyrants that has been rising will not stop at Ukraine. The overall cost of letting it win and continue, will be immensely, without measure higher, and not just in dollars, than what you pretend to be saving by this cowardly inaction. Yes, you knew.

This is what's at stake here. You cannot pretend to not understand it; there can be no excuses like was just following my (lying) leaders. Your choice, act or inaction will be recorded in the history exactly as it stands: cowardly submission to the lying agenda of an authoritarian cult on track to lose sanity. Your names will be read and cited by the posterity as useless principle-less cowards lacking the will and the spine to stand for what's right for as long as the democracy persists. This is what's at stake here. And you knew.

Edited February 6, 2024 by myata

WestCanMan · February 6, 2024

14 hours ago, Aristides said:

So you think the US can install missiles and nukes on Turkish soil without Turkey knowing about it? You really do live down a rabbit hole.

Now you know that you're just talking out of your arse. That's the exact opposite of what I just said.

"I never said "Without Ukraine's consent", I said without informing everyone else in NATO."

The above means that they'd do it with Ukraine's consent, but other NATO countries, eg. Turkey, wouldn't know about it.

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For the last time: A: the US never invaded Cuba, if they had, Castro would have been history. Even though Cuba lost Russian support in 1989, the US still hasn't attacked Cuba.

Do you think the Cubans know what happened? Do you think that, rightly or wrongly, they felt like they needed protection from America after those American bombs started 'falling on their country'?

"Why?", you ask, completely oblivious to historical facts, geopolitics, logic and reason...

Because, Aristedes, like most people, Cubans don't like it when American planes drop American bombs on their country. Does that make sense to you?

The Cubans knew that the US had more than just 3 old WWII bombers. They know that the US could decide to "loan Cuban rebels 😉" 100 planes with bigger bombs and hit more than just airports if they wanted to.

Do you think that Cubans wanted even more bombs dropped on them? Yes or no?

I'll give you the answer, because something tells me you can't guess this one.... No, the Cubans didn't want to be bombed. They don't like being bombed.

I know what you're thinking: "How does WCM know that Cubans don't like being bombed?"

Truth is I actually know a Cuban mom and I asked her. I said: "I feel like Cubans don't like being bombed, but I know a guy who's gonna ask me, so I need to find out directly from the source: do Cubans like being bombed?"

Now, admittedly, she didn't live in Cuba anymore, she had just moved here permanently a few years earlier, but I think that she still remembers how she would have answered the question before her passport changed.

robosmith · February 6, 2024

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

Now you know that you're just talking out of your arse. That's the exact opposite of what I just said.

"I never said "Without Ukraine's consent", I said without informing everyone else in NATO."

The above means that they'd do it with Ukraine's consent, but other NATO countries, eg. Turkey, wouldn't know about it.

Do you think the Cubans know what happened? Do you think that, rightly or wrongly, they felt like they needed protection from America after those American bombs started 'falling on their country'?

"Why?", you ask, completely oblivious to historical facts, geopolitics, logic and reason...

Because, Aristedes, like most people, Cubans don't like it when American planes drop American bombs on their country. Does that make sense to you?

The Cubans knew that the US had more than just 3 old WWII bombers. They know that the US could decide to "loan Cuban rebels 😉" 100 planes with bigger bombs and hit more than just airports if they wanted to.

Do you think that Cubans wanted even more bombs dropped on them? Yes or no?

I'll give you the answer, because something tells me you can't guess this one.... No, the Cubans didn't want to be bombed. They don't like being bombed.

I know what you're thinking: "How does WCM know that Cubans don't like being bombed?"

Truth is I actually know a Cuban mom and I asked her. I said: "I feel like Cubans don't like being bombed, but I know a guy who's gonna ask me, so I need to find out directly from the source: do Cubans like being bombed?"

Now, admittedly, she didn't live in Cuba anymore, she had just moved here permanently a few years earlier, but I think that she still remembers how she would have answered the question before her passport changed.

Despite this rant, you've still posted NO EVIDENCE that America bombed Cuba. We do know that the air support for the BoP invasion was cancelled.

JFK denies U.S. planned Cuba invasion air cover

It is ambiguous whether Cuban pilots flying CIA B-26s out of a Guatemalan air base bombed Castro's military air bases.

WestCanMan · February 6, 2024

https://www.historynet.com/day-remember-april-171961-bay-pigs-invasion/

The invasion kicked off on April 15, 1961, with the bombing of Cuba by what was reported to be defecting Cuban air force pilots—they were, in fact, in the hire of the CIA. Three Cuban military bases, two airfields and the Antonio Maceo Airport were attacked, killing 54 people. Two of the “defecting” B-26 bombers involved in the attack flew to Miami.
By April 19, Castro’s air force shot down nine of the invaders’ 16 aircraft and, over the next couple of days, Cuban ground forces pounded the invading brigade with howitzer and tank fire.

Did Kennedy lie about the involvement of US aircraft? Of course.

sharkman · February 7, 2024

The title of this thread is inadvertently more accurate than you realize. Putin’s war. On freedom. He’s doing more for freedom than anyone else in the world.

And if you can’t see that yet, surely you can see that the US has attacked more nations than Russia has in the last 50 years. Why is that?

Hodad · February 7, 2024

33 minutes ago, sharkman said:

The title of this thread is inadvertently more accurate than you realize. Putin’s war. On freedom. He’s doing more for freedom than anyone else in the world.

And if you can’t see that yet, surely you can see that the US has attacked more nations than Russia has in the last 50 years. Why is that?