New Epstein File Release

[Nationalist]

7 hours ago, Rebound said:

Cause conspiracy theorists put pressure on the authorities to study the results more thoroughly, and while they didn't change their conclusion, the senior guy wanted to add more details about the cause of death.

As far as I know, this senior guy didn't even examine the body.

[Rebound]

11 hours ago, CdnFox said:

So you have a conspiracy theory that it's a conspiracy to appease conspiracy theorists.  I see.

Oh what a tangled web we weave.....

Example: There was a ridiculous conspiracy theory that Barack Obama’s single, unemployed mother, for no reason whatsoever, bought an international plane ticket, flew to a secret foreign nation, had her baby, flew back to Hawaii and obtained falsified witnesses and documents to cover it all up… for no apparent reason. Pretty stupid. 

But this lunacy continued, so the Secretary of State of Hawaii personally inspected the certificate. The lunatics continued, so Obama produced his long form birth certificate. So… yes, government officials do sometimes respond to ridiculous conspiracy theories.  

Edited January 8, 2024 by Rebound

[Rebound]

4 hours ago, Nationalist said:

As far as I know, this senior guy didn't even examine the body.

“As far as you know” isn’t far enough to reach a conclusion that the man was murdered. 

I’m not saying that Epstein wasn’t murdered; I have no idea. What I am saying is that it’s not possible to conclude that the man was murdered, and I think it is more likely that he did kill himself than he didn’t. The people who say that Epstein was definitely murdered are full of nonsense, because there aren’t enough facts available to make that conclusion.

There’s a lot of talk about security cameras being turned off and sleeping guards. If I were the investigator, what I’d want to know is whether that was the only incident of sleeping guards, or is it common? And I’d want to know if those were the only two broken security cameras, or were broken cameras more common. Because, yes, if these were the only incidents of broken cameras and sleeping guards, it would raise a lot of suspicion and then I would investigate the financial records of those two guards to see if any money suddenly showed up. 

But Rikers is a notoriously awful prison, so I imagine those lapses were commonplace. 

Edited January 8, 2024 by Rebound

[Nationalist]

11 minutes ago, Rebound said:

“As far as you know” isn’t far enough to reach a conclusion that the man was murdered. 

I’m not saying that Epstein wasn’t murdered; I have no idea. What I am saying is that it’s not possible to conclude that the man was murdered, and I think it is more likely that he did kill himself than he didn’t. The people who say that Epstein was definitely murdered are full of nonsense, because there aren’t enough facts available to make that conclusion.

There’s a lot of talk about security cameras being turned off and sleeping guards. If I were the investigator, what I’d want to know is whether that was the only incident of sleeping guards, or is it common? And I’d want to know if those were the only two broken security cameras, or were broken cameras more common. Because, yes, if these were the only incidents of broken cameras and sleeping guards, it would raise a lot of suspicion and then I would investigate the financial records of those two guards to see if any money suddenly showed up. 

But Rikers is a notoriously awful prison, so I imagine those lapses were commonplace. 

There are enough facts...in the original autopsy report.

[Rebound]

15 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

There are enough facts...in the original autopsy report.

Link?

I am not aware of an “original autopsy report” which concluded that Epstein was murdered. He had previously attempted suicide, after all. 

Edited January 8, 2024 by Rebound

[Aristides]

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2023-06-27/watchdog-report-finds-negligence-mismanagement-at-n-y-jail-where-jeffrey-epstein-died

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, Rebound said:

Example: There was a ridiculous conspiracy theory that Barack Obama’s single, unemployed mother, for no reason whatsoever, bought an international plane ticket, flew to a secret foreign nation, had her baby, flew back to Hawaii and obtained falsified witnesses and documents to cover it all up… for no apparent reason. Pretty stupid. 

 

LOL - i don't think it was much of a conspiracy theory - i think it was a lot more of a hilarious running gag that even obama played into   I"m sure a very very very tiny handful of people really questioned it but please.  Nobody seriously beleived it.  It was more fun than anything.  I remember when obama was on a talk show and they asked him why trump hated him that much and he said "well it all stems back to when we used to play soccer together as children in kenya......"   

4 hours ago, Rebound said:

But this lunacy continued, so the Secretary of State of Hawaii personally inspected the certificate. The lunatics continued, so Obama produced his long form birth certificate. So… yes, government officials do sometimes respond to ridiculous conspiracy theories.  

I'm sure they do    but really that wasn't a good exmaple of one.  

There's fringe lunatics on both sides and always will be but nobody in the world thought obama really wasn't from the us. It was just hilarious and fun to constantly bug him about it.

 

[Rebound]

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

LOL - i don't think it was much of a conspiracy theory - i think it was a lot more of a hilarious running gag that even obama played into   I"m sure a very very very tiny handful of people really questioned it but please.  Nobody seriously beleived it.  It was more fun than anything.  I remember when obama was on a talk show and they asked him why trump hated him that much and he said "well it all stems back to when we used to play soccer together as children in kenya......"   

I'm sure they do    but really that wasn't a good exmaple of one.  

There's fringe lunatics on both sides and always will be but nobody in the world thought obama really wasn't from the us. It was just hilarious and fun to constantly bug him about it.

 

Melanie Trump didn’t sound like she was kidding when she claimed that Obama hadn’t provided a genuine birth certificate. 

 

[Nationalist]

5 hours ago, Rebound said:

Link?

I am not aware of an “original autopsy report” which concluded that Epstein was murdered. He had previously attempted suicide, after all. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jeffrey_Epstein

"Baden observed Sampson's autopsy when it was conducted; after the autopsy he said he could not comment because of gag orders filed by Sampson's office and Epstein's estate."

https://rumble.com/v4572ef-tucker-carlson-on-x-episode-59-the-mark-epstein-interview.html

enjoy...

[Rebound]

35 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jeffrey_Epstein

"Baden observed Sampson's autopsy when it was conducted; after the autopsy he said he could not comment because of gag orders filed by Sampson's office and Epstein's estate."

https://rumble.com/v4572ef-tucker-carlson-on-x-episode-59-the-mark-epstein-interview.html

enjoy...

Tucker Carlson has a theory? And I’m supposed to believe him? No thanks.  

[BeaverFever]

41 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jeffrey_Epstein

"Baden observed Sampson's autopsy when it was conducted; after the autopsy he said he could not comment because of gag orders filed by Sampson's office and Epstein's estate."

https://rumble.com/v4572ef-tucker-carlson-on-x-episode-59-the-mark-epstein-interview.html

enjoy...

Trump’s administration had Epstein arrested amd detained amd Epstein was in Trump administration’s custody and corrections employees under the control of the Trump administration are the one who falsified their records.  Trump was a close friend who parties hard with Epstein’s for 20 years. 
 

Hilarious that you think any foul play points to Clintons or democrats. 

[BeaverFever]

6 hours ago, CdnFox said:

LOL - i don't think it was much of a conspiracy theory - i think it was a lot more of a hilarious running gag that even obama played into   I"m sure a very very very tiny handful of people really questioned it but please

That’s some first rate revisionism right there. Next you’ll be telling us nobody really believed the 2020 election was stolen or that Hunter Biden was involved in serious crimes. Obama’s alleged Kenyan birth was a common and popular conspiracy among Republican supporters especially Trump. 
 

I’m sure that in 2030 that’s exactly what the internet republicans  on this forum will be claiming.  

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, Rebound said:

Melanie Trump didn’t sound like she was kidding when she claimed that Obama hadn’t provided a genuine birth certificate. 

 

Of course she didn't. The joke's over the moment you admit it's a joke. 

[CdnFox]

34 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

That’s some first rate revisionism right there.

I'm sure in your teeny tiny little mind it is

Quote

Next you’ll be telling us nobody really believed the 2020 election was stolen

Well i would certainly say the numbers aren't the majority   But i do think that many people did believe there were shenanigans in that case even tho they coudln't prove it.  Just as there are lots of people who believed in trump russia collusion despite no evidence. The fact that the obama thing wasn't that serious doesn't mean that there aren't other false accusations. The dems and supporters kept the collusion lie going for years and it had HUGE buy in among the left

Quote

or that Hunter Biden was involved in serious crimes.

(you... ahh.... you know he confessed right?)

Quote

I’m sure that in 2030 that’s exactly what the internet republicans  on this forum will be claiming.  

Well you're not all that bright so that's to be expected. Say hi to the Russians  

[BeaverFever]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Well i would certainly say the numbers aren't the majority   But i do think that many people did believe there were shenanigans in that case even tho they coudln't prove it. 

Almost a third of Americans still believe the 2020 election result was fraudulent

…Virtually all Democrats (93%) say Biden won the election fairly, a view shared by 58% of independents. Just 21% of Republicans believe Biden won his election fair and square, while 68% say he won "due to voter fraud." 

That's very similar to Monmouth's findings in the weeks after the 2020 election, when 18% of Republicans, 67% of independents and 95% of Democrats said Biden's election victory was fair. 
 

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Just as there are lots of people who believed in trump russia collusion despite no evidence.

The Mueller report doesn’t say there was “no evidence”. In fact:

 

Mueller spent almost 200 pages describing “numerous links between the Russian government and the Trump Campaign.” He found that “a Russian entity carried out a social media campaign that favored presidential candidate Donald J. Trump and disparaged presidential candidate Hillary Clinton.” He also found that “a Russian intelligence service conducted computer-intrusion operations” against the Clinton campaign and then released stolen documents.…

While Mueller was unable to establish a conspiracy between members of the Trump campaign and the Russians involved in this activity, he made it clear that “[a] statement that the investigation did not establish particular facts does not mean there was no evidence of those facts.” In fact, Mueller also wrote that the “investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts.”

To find conspiracy, a prosecutor must establish beyond a reasonable doubt the elements of the crime: an agreement between at least two people, to commit a criminal offense and an overt act in furtherance of that agreement. One of the underlying criminal offenses that Mueller reviewed for conspiracy was campaign-finance violations. Mueller found that Trump campaign members Donald Trump Jr., Paul Manafort and Jared Kushner met with Russian nationals in Trump Tower in New York June 2016 for the purpose of receiving disparaging information about Clinton as part of “Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump,” according to an email message arranging the meeting. This meeting did not amount to a criminal offense, in part, because Mueller was unable to establish “willfulness,” that is, that the participants knew that their conduct was illegal. Mueller was also unable to conclude that the information was a “thing of value” that exceeded $25,000, the requirement for campaign finance to be a felony, as opposed to a civil violation of law. But the fact that the conduct did not technically amount to conspiracy does not mean that it was acceptable. Trump campaign members welcomed foreign influence into our election and then compromised themselves with the Russian government by covering it up.

Mueller found other contacts with Russia, such as the sharing of polling data about Midwestern states where Trump later won upset victories, conversations with the Russian ambassador to influence Russia’s response to sanctions imposed by the U.S. government in response to election interference, and communications with Wikileaks after it had received emails stolen by Russia. While none of these acts amounted to the crime of conspiracy, all could be described as “collusion.”….Mueller found at least four acts by Trump in which all elements of the obstruction statute were satisfied – attempting to fire Mueller, directing White House counsel Don McGahn to lie and create a false document about efforts to fire Mueller, attempting to limit the investigation to future elections and attempting to prevent Manafort from cooperating with the government. As Mueller stated, “while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.” 

 

https://time.com/5610317/mueller-report-myths-breakdown/
 

 

MUELLER: 'If we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so'
 

• The former special counsel Robert Mueller on Wednesday in his first public statement on the Russia investigation said if he had determined President Donald Trump didn't commit a crime he "would have said so." 
• "If we had confidence that the president did not commit a crime, we would have said so," Mueller said. 
• Mueller also said he was legally unable to charge the president with a crime, emphasizing it's against Justice Department policy and describing it as "unconstitutional."

https://www.businessinsider.com/mueller-would-have-said-so-concluded-trump-didnt-commit-crime-2019-5?amp
 

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

(you... ahh.... you know he confessed right?)

Not to all the crazy batshit conspiracies that Republicans are accusing him of  

 

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Say hi to the Russians  

You have me confused with Nationalist and the hordes Putin-admiring Trump supporters. 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

Almost a third of Americans still believe the 2020 election result was fraudulent

…Virtually all Democrats (93%) say Biden won the election fairly, a view shared by 58% of independents. Just 21% of Republicans believe Biden won his election fair and square, while 68% say he won "due to voter fraud." 

That's very similar to Monmouth's findings in the weeks after the 2020 election, when 18% of Republicans, 67% of independents and 95% of Democrats said Biden's election victory was fair. 
 

The Mueller report doesn’t say there was “no evidence”. In fact:

 

Mueller spent almost 200 pages describing “numerous links between the Russian government and the Trump Campaign.” He found that “a Russian entity carried out a social media campaign that favored presidential candidate Donald J. Trump and disparaged presidential candidate Hillary Clinton.” He also found that “a Russian intelligence service conducted computer-intrusion operations” against the Clinton campaign and then released stolen documents.…

While Mueller was unable to establish a conspiracy between members of the Trump campaign and the Russians involved in this activity, he made it clear that “[a] statement that the investigation did not establish particular facts does not mean there was no evidence of those facts.” In fact, Mueller also wrote that the “investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts.”

To find conspiracy, a prosecutor must establish beyond a reasonable doubt the elements of the crime: an agreement between at least two people, to commit a criminal offense and an overt act in furtherance of that agreement. One of the underlying criminal offenses that Mueller reviewed for conspiracy was campaign-finance violations. Mueller found that Trump campaign members Donald Trump Jr., Paul Manafort and Jared Kushner met with Russian nationals in Trump Tower in New York June 2016 for the purpose of receiving disparaging information about Clinton as part of “Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump,” according to an email message arranging the meeting. This meeting did not amount to a criminal offense, in part, because Mueller was unable to establish “willfulness,” that is, that the participants knew that their conduct was illegal. Mueller was also unable to conclude that the information was a “thing of value” that exceeded $25,000, the requirement for campaign finance to be a felony, as opposed to a civil violation of law. But the fact that the conduct did not technically amount to conspiracy does not mean that it was acceptable. Trump campaign members welcomed foreign influence into our election and then compromised themselves with the Russian government by covering it up.

Mueller found other contacts with Russia, such as the sharing of polling data about Midwestern states where Trump later won upset victories, conversations with the Russian ambassador to influence Russia’s response to sanctions imposed by the U.S. government in response to election interference, and communications with Wikileaks after it had received emails stolen by Russia. While none of these acts amounted to the crime of conspiracy, all could be described as “collusion.”….Mueller found at least four acts by Trump in which all elements of the obstruction statute were satisfied – attempting to fire Mueller, directing White House counsel Don McGahn to lie and create a false document about efforts to fire Mueller, attempting to limit the investigation to future elections and attempting to prevent Manafort from cooperating with the government. As Mueller stated, “while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.” 

 

https://time.com/5610317/mueller-report-myths-breakdown/
 

 

MUELLER: 'If we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so'
 

• The former special counsel Robert Mueller on Wednesday in his first public statement on the Russia investigation said if he had determined President Donald Trump didn't commit a crime he "would have said so." 
• "If we had confidence that the president did not commit a crime, we would have said so," Mueller said. 
• Mueller also said he was legally unable to charge the president with a crime, emphasizing it's against Justice Department policy and describing it as "unconstitutional."

https://www.businessinsider.com/mueller-would-have-said-so-concluded-trump-didnt-commit-crime-2019-5?amp
 

Not to all the crazy batshit conspiracies that Republicans are accusing him of  

 

You have me confused with Nationalist and the hordes Putin-admiring Trump supporters. 

So... i say that i don't think the majority of americans believe the election was fraudulent.

To prove me wrong you post that...... 1/3 of americans do.

So...  i know math is an issue for you. BUt if you look it up- 1/3 is less than half, even tho 3 is bigger than 2.

As to your mueller partisan anti trump website - muller had no evidence.  That was the problem.  IF he had evidence he could have proceeded and let a court sort it out. But he had nothing.

As i JUST pointed out above i believe and have mentioned before not having evidence is not the same as proving him innocent. THat is different and mueller is fair to say that - just as it's true to say a lack of evidence proving election fraud doesn't mean there wasn't election fraud.  But it's a very very partisan thing to say. If you don't have enough evidence to support the claim there wasn't a crime, then you have to assume there wasn't one.

I mean -  have no evidence that proves you don't have sex with children.  None. For all i know you do 3 times a day, i can't prove otherwise.

But - it would be irresponsible for me to say just because i can't prove you don't that means you do.

 

So - lets recap. Things i said that were true:

the majority of americans do not believe there were shenanigans in the election.

Mueller has no evidence of 'collusion'.  While that's not proof of no collusion, it's grossly irresponsible to claim their is without evidence.

 

[Nationalist]

14 hours ago, Rebound said:

Tucker Carlson has a theory? And I’m supposed to believe him? No thanks.  

Don't. You'd ruin you perfect record of being wrong.

[Nationalist]

14 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Trump’s administration had Epstein arrested amd detained amd Epstein was in Trump administration’s custody and corrections employees under the control of the Trump administration are the one who falsified their records.  Trump was a close friend who parties hard with Epstein’s for 20 years. 
 

Hilarious that you think any foul play points to Clintons or democrats. 

Did I say anything about the Clinton Klan?

Go lie somewhere else Beave.

[BeaverFever]

8 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Did I say anything about the Clinton Klan?

Go lie somewhere else Beave.

I said Clinton or Democrats, dummy. 

[Nationalist]

3 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

I said Clinton or Democrats, dummy. 

Did I mention either?

Or are you just lying again...

[Caswell Thomas]

On 1/4/2024 at 5:45 PM, CdnFox said:

Wouldnt' matter for the reasons mentioned.  People have gotten particularly jaded about those who 'magically have their memory restored"  in a particularly timely fashon years later

Well the difference is that he's actually guilty of the crime he was accused of.   But sure, water under the bridge as far as he goes, but he's not running for office.

For most people, the 'news' today is that the dems have been faking news about trump for ages now so anything that he gets accused of, including the handful of legit and serious issues out of the 100 fake ones, is simply blown off.  The dems really did themselves in with this and they're certainly going to face retribution in the future whether trump gets in or not.

 

.

Nobody cares.  the only people remotely interested are those who already hate him and want to justify their hatred but the rest will blow it off as more of "the boy who cried trump".

This will be a 5 second spark in the media cycle.  This has been done before.

So..more if the GOP " everybody knows" source if alleged evidence then, i.e. nothing but accusations, no actual proof.

[CdnFox]

5 hours ago, Caswell Thomas said:

So..more if the GOP " everybody knows" source if alleged evidence then, i.e. nothing but accusations, no actual proof.

So.. more of an !diotic reply with no value or thought trying to desperately find fault with something that's a bit over your head.  God you're pathetic.

There is in fact a great deal of evidence. If you want the most currently obvious one everytime the dems or supporters accuse him of a crime these days his polling numbers go up.  People are joking that he's one major indictment away from the presidency  

Do you have something useful to add or are you as irrelevant as always? If you disagree with an element then make your argument or proof, and if you don't then make an intelligent comment, but  try to exceed the kind of input we'd expect from a toddler.