Dave Chapelle Brilliantly Frames How Trans Ideology Feels Like for an Outsider

[Yakuda]

On 1/2/2024 at 4:27 PM, Michael Hardner said:

There's no punch line.  Is it funny because he uses the n-word ?

This is the problem with Chapelle these days... he just wants to lecture about social issues.  Like Hannah Gadsby, but on the other side.  Interesting, sure.  Funny ?  Not at all.... his show was the best and now he's a sociology professor.  I don't need a lecture...

You may not need a lecture but if you think trans ideology is real you need a truth bomb and I suspect that what this video is for you 

[Yakuda]

On 1/2/2024 at 9:46 PM, Moonlight Graham said:

It's just a joke.

It does have a punchline, it's the part at the very end where everyone laughs and Dave is smiling.  If there's no punchline, like Dave and Hannah sometimes do, then it's not a joke, they're preaching.  Dave has said he has friends who are trans who come to his shows and laugh at his trans jokes.

Dave has said that the predicament trans people find themselves in is funny. A woman trapped in a man's body is funny.  It's like a sitcom setup.  If people including trans people can't laugh at that at times then they take things too seriously and are too sensitive.

I am always amazed when they use the phrase, "A woman trapped in a man's body". How do they know what a its like to be a woman? Matt Walsh's movie, What Is A Woman? made the point brilliantly. Its leftist mumbo jumbo

[Legato]

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Yakuda said:

is illusionary at best and delusional at worst.

It is taught in a cult like fashion. You question it, and somehow something is wrong with you.

I mean, anything that was fact, would simply be demonstrated with factual evidence.

This group is devoid of this, so they blur the lines and murky the waters. Highly effective, as coupled with heavy handed consequences for dissenting views, few will dare challenge them, and as such their demands become crazier by the minute.

Anyone stating a male in jail with women is a good idea if that's how they feel inside, are precisely why most don't say anything for fear of reprisals, but seeing the popularity for comedians like Chapelle, that it is a viewpoint most likely share.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Yakuda said:

How do they know what a its like to be a woman?

Exactly. 

They don't. They just act in the fashion they feel makes them a woman. They put in work, to become a woman.

That's the thing, though.

Am black. There is no work. Its what I am. If you were feeling you were black and convinced. No amount of gaslighting or perms or jerk chicken would make you black.

Get a girl pregnant....your kids would be as white as you are, and this is why its a mental illness.

They should have rights and be treated with respect, as mental health is no laughing matter, but to have activists demand we play along or we are somehow transphobic is preposterous.

Worse even. All the pseudo intellectuals it has created, that can't wait for the opportunity to educate me that am now cis and not male. O_o

Free country. Believe what you wish. I should have the same right.

My rights shouldn't change for something that isn't embedded in fact and evidence.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Legato said:

I remember seeing a trans woman that was clearly visually male, bemoaning how she could not find men wanting to date her.

She legit blamed discrimination. 

Not the clearly shaved beard outlined in the darker hue on her Caucasian skin. The voice that was deep as f-. Oh, and the Adam's apple and man hands. 

No, it's discrimination. Men don't want to get to know you.

This level of delusion shouldn't be mocked, but also shouldn't be enabled like it was perfectly normal.

I see it like morbidly obese influencers shaming those who feel that eating 8L of ice cream a day isn't healthy.

Yeah, well this also could be seen as mental illness, because reality doesn't care for how you feel inside.

[Moonlight Graham]

7 hours ago, Yakuda said:

I am always amazed when they use the phrase, "A woman trapped in a man's body". How do they know what a its like to be a woman? Matt Walsh's movie, What Is A Woman? made the point brilliantly. Its leftist mumbo jumbo

It's the dumbest phrase ever.

[Legato]

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

I remember seeing a trans woman that was clearly visually male, bemoaning how she could not find men wanting to date her.

She legit blamed discrimination. 

Not the clearly shaved beard outlined in the darker hue on her Caucasian skin. The voice that was deep as f-. Oh, and the Adam's apple and man hands. 

No, it's discrimination. Men don't want to get to know you.

This level of delusion shouldn't be mocked, but also shouldn't be enabled like it was perfectly normal.

I see it like morbidly obese influencers shaming those who feel that eating 8L of ice cream a day isn't healthy.

Yeah, well this also could be seen as mental illness, because reality doesn't care for how you feel inside.

If it's got an apple, it's got a banana.

[Michael Hardner]

17 hours ago, Yakuda said:

You may not need a lecture but if you think trans ideology is real you need a truth bomb and I suspect that what this video is for you 

"Trans ideology is real"

I don't think that there's a trans ideology.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I don't think that there's a trans ideology.

But there is.

Under the guise of protecting people, you have a group of activists that have literally changed the English language.

Not only this, gender is now a question mark. They have weaponized words like transphobic to silence any argument they don't like. 

Doctors have the obligation to follow suit, or risk damaging themselves.

Investment firms use financial leverage, to force corporations to endorse this movement.

Some do so disastrously. 

Gender is now limitless, which scientifically is hogwash. 

Men can go to female prisons. Shower with young girls, and no longer get the heavy handed push back, if they are trans. 

This is all ideology. 

When you have a strong point, you can usually debate it with facts. 

There are no hard facts or evidence supporting most of the garbage that they peddle.

[Michael Hardner]

43 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

1. This is all ideology. 

2. There are no hard facts or evidence supporting most of the garbage that they peddle.

1. What makes all of this ideology versus prevailing thought? Prevailing thought changes quite often, but to characterize it as ideology you would have to provide more evidence.

2. There sure seem to be plenty of studies indicating that people are better off after transitioning. Or does that not count?

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

What makes all of this ideology

Ideology: "An ideology is a set of beliefs, especially the political beliefs on which people, parties, or countries base their actions."

Religion is an ideology, especially in places like the US.

Transgenderism is an ideology, as is the body acceptance movement.

Any belief system that tells you that eating unhealthy and being morbidly obese is perfectly healthy--is lying to you. It isn't. Proof, are the many influencers who pushed this garbage, that are dying young.

Any belief system that genuinely believes that one can self-identify their gender in an unlimited manner, and fluidly to boot--isn't grounded in any sense of reality. Me just feeling like am a woman, makes me a woman, is bordering on the ridiculous.

That you somehow are assigned a gender at birth, eluding it to being incorrect or bringing it into question, even though a penis or a vagina is rather irrefutable as proof you were meant to be born that way. Am an effeminate male who has always rejected gender norms as they didn't fit me--it certainly doesn't make me any more female.

Pushing this "belief" onto children, without any hard evidence, makes it just that--a belief. You debate facts, with hard evidence, making it rather irrefutable. Pressuring people to change their language, and their behavior to "protect" this vulnerable group, is actually having the adverse effect, nor does it have anything to do with protecting this group.

When your logic is full of holes, and the intellectuals fighting for it are quick to turn to anger and name calling vs correcting with better logic, one must question what is being fed to people. When you can't openly discuss issues, without risking being shut down and canceled, to me as an inquisitive person by nature--it would make me question your motives even more.

Many wars are fought over religion. Speaking ill of some religions, could get you targeted and marked. Killed, even.

How is trangenderism any different?

I was taught as a child that if I prayed for it--I'd get it. I grew up in the slums, full of people praying, and dying hands clasped and all. I learned quickly that getting myself out of poverty was the only real way out. No God, no government will help you. Victimhood ideology, has so many believing the government is there to help you. There's no logic to it, so if your logic gets picked apart, you get angry, because victimhood is all you were taught.

Ideology pushes hordes of people to think like victims, and literally believe in their inferiority. Fighting against slavery, while behaving slave like.

Trans ideology believers will feel threatened by a woman stating she is uncomfortable showering with someone who has a penis, or worse even-competing professionally with someone with an unfair physical advantage, likely dismissing her as either TERF or worse, silenced and/or assaulted.

Putting male bodied women in jails with biological women, handing biological women pamphlets on how to deal with pregnancy--that's the power of ideology.

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

There sure seem to be plenty of studies indicating that people are better off after transitioning. Or does that not count?

Suicides are still very high among those who transition. Stats speak for themselves.

Also, if we're talking youth, over half who receive care, are often suffering from other mental illnesses, such as depression and high anxiety, to name a couple common ones.

Proceeding with transitioning without trying to get to the root of what is wrong, is not helpful. In fact, its harmful. Proof of this, can be seen in places like the UK, with thousands filing lawsuits due to regret from transitioning.

There is a growing pressure and movement to affirm everything, and medicine is anchored in questioning. Preventing a doctor from doing their job, is precisely what you'd expect when it comes down to a faith.

Are we doing this to make people feel better, or to reduce unnecessary deaths? When the core of your issue is still highly prevalent, that means your solution doesn't work. It just maybe, is a mental health issue that needs to be dealt with accordingly on a case by case basis.

Teaching kids they can just swap genders, and ignoring the massive consequences for doing so, should they just had been gay, or in my case--asexual, is ridiculously close to abuse in my books.

My mother never affirmed me being a girl, even I preferred playing with girls toys and wanted to wear girl clothing. My mother kept reminding me I was a boy.

As I got older, I was thought of as gay. I never was attracted to men.

Could you imagine if I was born in today's society? God forbid--I probably would've become trans, based on my behavior back in the days.

Most kids just know. I knew I was different. I didn't know how, but it was certain. All the gay people I know, just new. I know a few trans people, and they just knew.

They didn't need ideology to tell them. It was in their core. Support from their families could have helped, but this inner knowledge they had, was unshakable.

Telling kids their gender is malleable, creates confusion--not help.

[Michael Hardner]

12 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

1. Ideology: "An ideology is a set of beliefs, especially the political beliefs on which people, parties, or countries base their actions."

2. Religion is an ideology, especially in places like the US. Transgenderism is an ideology, as is the body acceptance movement.

3. Any belief system that genuinely believes that one can self-identify their gender in an unlimited manner, and fluidly to boot--isn't grounded in any sense of reality. Me just feeling like am a woman, makes me a woman, is bordering on the ridiculous.

4. Pushing this "belief" onto children, without any hard evidence, makes it just that--a belief. You debate facts, with hard evidence, making it rather irrefutable. Pressuring people to change their language, and their behavior to "protect" this vulnerable group, is actually having the adverse effect, nor does it have anything to do with protecting this group.

5. When your logic is full of holes, and the intellectuals fighting for it are quick to turn to anger and name calling vs correcting with better logic, one must question what is being fed to people. When you can't openly discuss issues, without risking being shut down and canceled, to me as an inquisitive person by nature--it would make me question your motives even more.

6. Many wars are fought over religion. Speaking ill of some religions, could get you targeted and marked. Killed, even. How is trangenderism any different?

7. Telling kids their gender is malleable, creates confusion--not help.

You appear to have given a long response, and in respect of your efforts - before I read it - I'm going to endeavour to give your post a respectful and thoughtful response here.

1. Before I last posted, I looked up 'ideology' and it included the words 'system of beliefs'.  It appears to be a minor difference of opinion, but to me an ideology needs some kind of overarching organization or cultural grouping to make it an ideology vs a set of ideas, some of which are shared by some and not others.

For example "Marxism" is an ideology.  Socialism, being a set of ideas which arguably bleed into many flavours of government, is less so but probably still is one.

2.  Agree on religion... maybe on the body acceptance movement if there's some network or overarching organization or somesuch.  If it's just an idea, then I don't accept the term.  Nobody talks about a "surfing ideology" or a "jazz ideology".  You re-assert that transgenderism is one, let's see why..

3. Ok, you're doing that argument where you think the change in the definition of "woman" is invalid.  That's a cultural change that you don't agree with.  So if people buy into the idea of self-identification then they are espousing the transgenderism ideology ?  That seems broad when you consider that trans rights are supported in law.

Let's see is "racial equality", also supported in law, an ideology ?  I don't think it is as much as it is an aspect of our socio-political culture.

4. I do think it's a 'belief' and a cultural change.

5. Ok, this is a comment on some of the proponents of trans rights and issues, but I don't think it's relevant to the question of whether it's an ideology.  I can impugn some conservatives but it doesn't say anything about whether conservatism is an ideology or not.

6. The fact that someone might kill you for your opinion isn't a market of ideology.  What makes it a 'system', who are the idealogues etc.

7. This, and the part above I read and deleted, just outlines why you think transgender people are misguided, why acceptance of it isn't helpful, or valid or whatever.  Whether it's real or not, or whether it helps or hurts doesn't make an an 'ideologies'.  I'm not disputing whether you agree with it or not, nor am I defending the idea that transgenderism is real or valid.

Instead, I'm saying that 'ideology' isn't a good or bad thing, but a specific thing.  I don't understand why the term is used, other than to make it seem different than other social movements and likely to make it seem insidious.  But ideologies aren't insidicious by nature.  Conservatism is an ideology too.  If we comply with the human rights codes and whatnot and afford to transgender people their rights are we then 'idealogues' ?  Are we bought into the ideology ?  That seems incorrect to me, sorry.

Thanks for the post though.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

ideology needs some kind of overarching organization or cultural grouping to make it an ideology

That's why woke ideologists put transgenderism at the front and center of their agenda. BLM, transgenderism, white privilege always find a way into this group's beliefs for a reason. You don't need to debate with facts. Vitriol, shaming and victim hood suffice.

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

That's a cultural change that you don't agree with. 

Its not that I don't agree with it, it doesn't make any logical sense, and it doesn't feel like I'm being informed as to what is accurate, vs being forced to believe into something non factual.

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

So if people buy into the idea of self-identification then they are espousing the transgenderism ideology ?

Not quite. Pushing this onto society as a whole, and using shame tactics or worse for dissenting views, are where it qualifies. I'm otherwise a live and let live type of person.

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Let's see is "racial equality", also supported in law, an ideology ? 

Sure, if we're talking racial quotas, pushing ideas such as mathematics and professionalism being by-products of white supremacy. When anchored in fact, it stops being an ideology, and is pushing for basic human rights.

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

The fact that someone might kill you for your opinion isn't a market of ideology. 

Correct, but was relating it to a belief system anchored in nothing but faith for the most part, where people being challenged on it, at times have been known for showing vitriol, anger and violence. It was more observation, than relating it to ideology.

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

nor am I defending the idea that transgenderism is real or valid.

Transgenderism is very real and very valid. It isn't what am disputed, as they are people who have rights just like both of us do.

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

If we comply with the human rights codes and whatnot and afford to transgender people their rights are we then 'idealogues' ?

Not quite. When we are deliberately divisive and use shaming and underhanded to advance ideology vs care and human rights, it stops being a movement for equality, rights or any of the above.

[Michael Hardner]

Ok well you keep saying it's ideology, but I still don't see the necessary ingredients.

[TreeBeard]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Ok well you keep saying it's ideology, but I still don't see the necessary ingredients.

Asking social conservatives to define “woke ideology” seems to be a fool’s errand.  

Edited January 15, 2024 by TreeBeard

[Michael Hardner]

18 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Asking social conservatives to define “woke ideology” seems to be a fool’s errand.  

I've been reading about it.

This is kind of like the old phrase... The gay agenda... It's a scare word

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

It's a scare word

Kind of like calling someone transphobic for disagreeing with your "ideology". 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

conservatives to define “woke ideology”

Some do it just fine.

Also woke capitalism which is far more common, is the demonstrable movement in investment firms using financial pressure to advance these ideologies.

Exact reason why you have so many companies advancing this at times divisive jargon, vs sticking to just selling us s***.

[Michael Hardner]

5 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Kind of like calling someone transphobic for disagreeing with your "ideology". 

I agree that transphobic isn't a great word. Right in the word root is phobia, which means fear. But ideology doesn't fit either.

Finding suitable terminology seems to be a stumbling block to getting a good dialogue home.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

1. Some do it just fine.

2. Also woke capitalism which is far more common, is the demonstrable movement in investment firms using financial pressure to advance these ideologies.

3. Exact reason why you have so many companies advancing this at times divisive jargon, vs sticking to just selling us s***.

1. Click on the link and you get a video of a politician. Definitions can usually be expressed in a text of a few sentences.

2. Well that's interesting. Which investment firms have done this, and how does it help them?

3. I expect to see jargon in advertising though.  

 

 

[Guest]

55 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I agree that transphobic isn't a great word.

Nor is TERF. Both mostly used to silence and shame people with opposing viewpoints, regards of merit or accuracy to those points.

Its lazy. It would be like me countering most of our debates with: "Its because am black, isn't it?" 

Now you're on the defensive procing you aren't racist if your point is strong, but otherwise intimidated into silence for fear of reprisals otherwise. Highly effective, as if someone isn't a strong debater, they will not dare challenge someone like this.

56 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

But ideology doesn't fit either.

What would be a better word, to describe something that is more about religious belief, than it is of fighting for the rights of others?

Religious belief by default, urges you to have blind faith. 

A lot of questions are answered by God. Am inquisitive and a compulsive thinker. It was torture to me, to just accept that all my questions were answered by a three letter word. It felt like an insult to my intelligence to dismiss valid concerns of mine. Precisely why I no longer am practicing.

My protests were scolded, and it was as if something was wrong with me for questioning God.

All I have earned in life, was by pulling up my boot straps. Vision, relentless hard work and determination to the tune of sacrificing everything to get to where I got to. God did nothing for me.

I see similar parallels for those who question the trans movement, especially medical experts. To me the latter is disturbing.

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Finding suitable terminology

Am all ears. Ideology seemed to fit, because of the belief systems attached to transgenderism. The woke movement it piggy backed on. Heck, they are piggy backing on the LGBT movement. 

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Definitions can usually be expressed in a text of a few sentences.

Yes, but prior poster expressed conservatives struggling to find a definition. I proved otherwise.

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Which investment firms have done this, and how does it help them?

Blackstone is one of the most prominent. 

They help elevate themselves as a company making social improvements, which looks nice on the surface.

But they literally are bullying companies financially to score high on their ESG metrics for measuring their "social deeds".

So what do you think a company will do to comply?

Invest in woke ads? Hire staff based on skin color, padding their numbers vs qualifications? 

Hiring "experts" to ensure they are woke enough? Taking "bold" woke political stances in their advertising?

All of the above?

TD Canada is one of the several banks I do business with. In the last couple of years, they have pushed full throttle on their gay and trans agenda.

They make it clear. They stand by it. Most branches will have rainbows somewhere.

Thats all fine and dandy, but are you going to manage my money properly?

I shop at Costco, and couldn't care less if they support BLM. Is my fuel cheaper as is my bulk food? 

These companies aren't doing it for actual social advancements. The virtue signaling, shames anyone not openly taking a stance, and ironically is far more divisive than it is uniting. Plus, they stand to profit on it.

I see it like the waste company I deal with for my business. They now provide free plastic containers, pushing their "green" agenda. 

I had a conversation with my representative. They admitted the federal government was incentivizing them to collect plastic for free.

Most of it--over 95% still goes to the landfill, but at least my bins are prettier and I feel better about it.

Long story short, there are no benefits other than for the company's woke image.

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

I expect to see jargon in advertising though.  

So do I. But as a business, I made the conscious decision not to advertise the good that we do in the community.

We don't advertise political views. My political views are strong, but my business with you if you walked through my doors, would be to serve you. I couldn't care less if you're far left, right, a Nazi, whatever as long as things end with a handshake and money in my hands. 

Am in business to serve you. Not to tell you what to believe in. I would have built a church, otherwise.

[Yakuda]

On 1/14/2024 at 6:50 AM, Michael Hardner said:

"Trans ideology is real"

I don't think that there's a trans ideology.

There surely is and anyone who thinks it makes any sense is delusional 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

1. Nor is TERF. Both mostly used to silence and shame people with opposing viewpoints, regards of merit or accuracy to those points.

Its lazy. It would be like me countering most of our debates with: "Its because am black, isn't it?" 

Now you're on the defensive procing you aren't racist if your point is strong, but otherwise intimidated into silence for fear of reprisals otherwise. Highly effective, as if someone isn't a strong debater, they will not dare challenge someone like this.

2. What would be a better word, to describe something that is more about religious belief, than it is of fighting for the rights of others?  Religious belief by default, urges you to have blind faith. 

3. Yes, but prior poster expressed conservatives struggling to find a definition. I proved otherwise.

4.  ... Long story short, there are no benefits other than for the company's woke image.

5. So do I. But as a business, I made the conscious decision not to advertise the good that we do in the community. We don't advertise political views.

6. My political views are strong, but my business with you if you walked through my doors, would be to serve you. I couldn't care less if you're far left, right, a Nazi, whatever as long as things end with a handshake and money in my hands. 

7. Am in business to serve you. Not to tell you what to believe in. I would have built a church, otherwise.

1. Or "CIS" apparently.  I have a principle that I believe groups should have a veto over what they are called.  "TERF" or "CIS" seem to me innocuous tags, but a principle is a principle.  What should such tags be replaced with in your opinion ?  It's another aspect, along with clarity, to ensure we're using words that all sides can accept.

2. The thing is, from what I can surmise, your beef is with a subset of rights proponents who argue in an irrational/religious way.  That's a valid criticism but it makes it hard to draw a circle around those people and call their methods "transgender ideology".  So, again, my problem is with the definition of the term.  I can suggest something... maybe "identity politics zealots" ?  That ties all of those types in together and paints them with an extremist brush.  Does that work for you ?

3. A definition for transgender ideology ?  Can you repost it ?  I missed it.  You spoke at length about how some transgender advocates are irrational and no one can dispute that but a universal definition that begins as most definitions do, ie. "transgender ideology, noun, the set of beliefs and methods espoused by... [group name] in order to satisfy [doctrine name]" ... I think there's an absence of organization, as I have been saying, so a general pejorative of "zealot' works better.

4. ...and there it is.  "Image" has to be good ... why ?  Because it translates to money in the end.  That's the ultimate motivation.  If more people like you absolutely refused then you might move the needle more ?  It happened with beer, right ?

5. Those are two separate policies.  Ok, so like anonymous donations you take the high road.  Good for you.

6. As culture changes, though, and the years and decades roll on things like black people appearing in ads, interracial couples, gay people in ads, trans people in ads become non-political.  You're a classical liberal, I think, which is another ideology.

7. Well, you believe in money though.  That's the ideology.  Philosopher Zizek refers to ideology as the "unknown knows", ie things that we know but we don't know that we know them... values and ideas that we breathe every day without realizing that they're not endemic to nature.

Edited to add: thanks for this, publics and ideology are my favourite topics.

Edited January 15, 2024 by Michael Hardner

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Yakuda said:

There surely is and anyone who thinks it makes any sense is delusional 

Ok- well as I have been saying, maybe you can start by posting a definition ?  Let's see if we can navigate the meta without falling into the pitfalls of moralism.