Canada, NATO, de Gaulle, Poilievre

[Aristides]

7 hours ago, August1991 said:

Every "war" you note was brief. The Franco-Prussian War in 1870 lasted for five weeks.

An elite -older people, Russian, German- thought that a war in August 1914 would last for several months at most.

No one in the elite, rich of civilised Europe of 1912 thought that any war would change their lives 

 

 

WW1 was one of the results of the Franco Prussian war which also ended Napoleon III's reign. There was a period of peace because there was no dominant power on the European continent between the fall of Napoleon Bonaparte and the rise of a unified Germany. Britain was a maritime power with a small army compared to continental countries that was mostly built for colonial duties. 

No Western European country has been attacked by an outsider since the formation of NATO because it commits them to defend each other if one of them is attacked. This is the major difference between European NATO and the  complicated alliances that resulted in countries being sucked into WW1.

Edited April 10 by Aristides

[Army Guy]

17 hours ago, August1991 said:

1. WTF? No wall, we win, the Soviet Union is no more, but we still need NATO... 

2. WTF? NATO is used to confront China?

Yes there is no more wall, the sun and the moon are that much more brighter, because of it, Russia pulled back,  most of the war saw pact see's democracy as more attractive...But Russia still is a combat power that can and will project military strength when ever it feels like...like in Ukraine, Syria etc...and it is not that ukraine is of some strategic importance to the globe, well to most of the world it is just another war saw pact country looking for a home...to Russia it is important, hence why the need to cleanse Nazis or what ever excuse they are using this week. 

Now to Europe it represents a threat, as they don't know if putin is going to take a larger bite out of  their club...anyways the Europeans are all in arms, in fact some of those countries are on a war footing as we speak, with conscription, shopping at amazon for more military equipment, and pleading to have more NATO troops in their countries...

Putin knows that NATO is like Russia a mere shell of their former self's... but still have a military capable of doing a lot of conventional damage....NATO is growing daily in strength and size...while Russia is bleeding it's resources in a conflict that really should have taken a few months....Ukraine is also bleeding out of it's people and resources...with only Europe and the US giving them aid, and only giving them just enough aid to hold them pesky ruskies at bay, not much more, as it is not in their best interests right...

for a couple reasons... Russia stops being the bad guy and how do they trick congress into buying new toys or the US has spent a lot of time and effor to get Europe into increasing their military so US could downsize...can't do that if theirs is no war...second this war gives NATO time to get rid of all it's old and mouldy equipment and ammo, plus it gets to bleed out mother Russia at the same time, 2 for the price of one, it is a deal...there is more but your really not putting much effort into these conversations...

Yes China is now the new world bad guy, it's NAVY has already larger than the US, meaning it has more ships, but lacks in certain ship types...So yes NATO and other defensive organizations have come into the picture to counter China...

On 4/9/2024 at 9:35 PM, August1991 said:

Army Guy,

You ask good questions.

You seem to have no answers...and yet you have already formed your opinion...why is that ?

[August1991]

On 4/10/2024 at 11:25 AM, Aristides said:

.....

No Western European country has been attacked by an outsider since the formation of NATO because it commits them to defend each other if one of them is attacked. This is the major difference between European NATO and the  complicated alliances that resulted in countries being sucked into WW1.

One could say the same of Europe after 1815. Read Kissinger.

[August1991]

On 4/10/2024 at 8:45 PM, Army Guy said:

Yes there is no more wall, the sun and the moon are that much more brighter, because of it, Russia pulled back

....

No. We in the West defeated the Soviet Union. (Russia is not the Soviet Union.)

Kissinger worried about how to create a structure of peace. One key point that he made is that the Soviet Union followed a Marxist ideology - it was intent on dominating the world.

[August1991]

On 4/10/2024 at 8:45 PM, Army Guy said:

....

But Russia still is a combat power that can and will project military strength when ever it feels like...like in Ukraine, Syria etc...and it is not that ukraine is of some strategic importance to the globe, well to most of the world it is just another war saw pact country looking for a home...to Russia it is important, hence why the need to cleanse Nazis or what ever excuse they are using this week. 

Now to Europe it represents a threat,....

 

True. Except for the Warsaw Pact (which no longer exists), you describe a 19th century world of counterweights. A multipolar world.

In 1815, Russia was not a threat to Europe.

=====

In 1914, this multipolar, multicultural civilized world collapsed not because of Russia or an external threat. It collapsed because a clueless elite lead ordinary people into folly.

[August1991]

On 4/10/2024 at 8:45 PM, Army Guy said:

...

Yes China is now the new world bad guy, it's NAVY has already larger than the US, meaning it has more ships, but lacks in certain ship types...So yes NATO and other defensive organizations have come into the picture to counter China...

You seem to have no answers...and yet you have already formed your opinion...why is that ?

China? It used to be, for Americans, Japan. IMHO, China is now Singapore. Xi is Lee Quan Yew.

AG, I have some answers and many opinions. I am reminded of Keynes famous response:

"When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?”

[Aristides]

9 hours ago, August1991 said:

China? It used to be, for Americans, Japan. IMHO, China is now Singapore. Xi is Lee Quan Yew.

AG, I have some answers and many opinions. I am reminded of Keynes famous response:

"When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?”

The problem arises when you start making up your own facts.

[Army Guy]

20 hours ago, August1991 said:

No. We in the West defeated the Soviet Union. (Russia is not the Soviet Union.)

Kissinger worried about how to create a structure of peace. One key point that he made is that the Soviet Union followed a Marxist ideology - it was intent on dominating the world.

No , we defeated no one. The west out spent the warsaw pact, Russia decided to pull back and broke up the warsaw pact...if we had defeated them there would have been a surrender with conditions and stuff.... russia just packed up it's toys and went home, thats all that happened...Today they took their toys out for a drive into ukraine, and decided to stay a while....

[Army Guy]

19 hours ago, August1991 said:

China? It used to be, for Americans, Japan. IMHO, China is now Singapore. Xi is Lee Quan Yew.

AG, I have some answers and many opinions. I am reminded of Keynes famous response:

"When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?”

I think your not listening to the facts, nor are you willing to look up the facts for yourself.. I respond becasue i think your conversations are interesting, but frustrating at times.

Leave ancient european history in the past, it's not coming back, today according many smart people in NATO, most countries foreign affairs departments , any western intelligence agency if ask who was the new emerging threat all would tell you it is China, with Russia in second place only due to nukes...as an example look at the US marine corp is changing it's tactics and equipment to be better suited for island hopping, not the european plains because of china, a lot of funding is being spent to meet these goals...so it is not on a whim and pray...5 eyes and UK,A,US  are defensive agreements for the pacific, that includes a large chunk of NATO fleet as well...all of this points to the pacific as the new problem for the world...

[August1991]

On 4/12/2024 at 8:29 PM, Army Guy said:

No , we defeated no one. The west out spent the warsaw pact, Russia decided to pull back and broke up the warsaw pact.

....

However.

Truman, Nixon, JFK, LBJ made America's win possible.

In 1991, America won.

Then, during the next 20 years, Clinton and Bush Jnr f*.ed up.

 

[August1991]

On 4/12/2024 at 8:41 PM, Army Guy said:

.....

Leave ancient european history in the past, it's not coming back, today according many smart people in NATO, most countries foreign affairs departments , any western intelligence agency if ask who was the new emerging threat all would tell you it is China, with Russia in second place only due to nukes...

 

1. Ancient Europe? Why NATO?

2. China? Look at Singapore.

[Army Guy]

On 4/13/2024 at 11:07 PM, August1991 said:

1. Ancient Europe? Why NATO?

2. China? Look at Singapore.

Yes ancient europe as you continue to reference... why not NATO, it is a huge alliance , that has continued to act as a back up to the US, it has been used in the middle east, and pacific regions...

Yes China military is expanding faster than any other nation on the globe, it's current navy is now larger than the US fleets, even the US industry could not compete in ship building with china as it stands today, and it is forcing the US to build more ,ships faster, and better...you need to do some reading... 

[August1991]

On 4/16/2024 at 4:08 PM, Army Guy said:

Yes ancient europe as you continue to reference... why not NATO, it is a huge alliance , that has continued to act as a back up to the US, it has been used in the middle east, and pacific regions...

Yes China military is expanding faster than any other nation on the globe, it's current navy is now larger than the US fleets, even the US industry could not compete in ship building with china as it stands today, and it is forcing the US to build more ,ships faster, and better...you need to do some reading... 

NATO (and SEATO) were created to limit the Soviet Union,a Communist/Marxist world threat, Red China.

These treaties/alliances worked. The Soviet Union and Maoist China are no more.

I was recently in Vietnam. I used my credit card in Hanoi.

 

[August1991]

On 4/16/2024 at 4:08 PM, Army Guy said:

....

Yes China military is expanding faster than any other nation on the globe, it's current navy is now larger than the US fleets, even the US industry could not compete in ship building with china as it stands today, and it is forcing the US to build more ,ships faster, and better...you need to do some reading... 

IMHO, we are back to the world of the 19th century.

August 1914.

[blackbird]

51 minutes ago, August1991 said:

The Soviet Union and Maoist China are no more.

What does that mean?  Russia and China are still a huge threat to the west.  Chairman Mao is gone but the Xi Jinping is the Chairman now and he is a dangerous leader.  No less than Mao.  China is very powerful now.

Edited April 17 by blackbird

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, August1991 said:

IMHO, we are back to the world of the 19th century.

August 1914.

I would suggest that it is rather back to the 17th Century

23 May 1618

[August1991]

3 hours ago, blackbird said:

What does that mean?  Russia and China are still a huge threat to the west.  Chairman Mao is gone but the Xi Jinping is the Chairman now and he is a dangerous leader.  No less than Mao.  China is very powerful now.

I strongly disagree.

I remember Soviet Russia (behind the Iron Curtain, as Churchill said)- I first travelled there in the 1970s.

Maoist China? I first travelled in its remnants, early 1980s.

Communist were a threat. Reagan won.

====

China and Russia are nowadays not a threat to the West

[August1991]

In this post-1990 world, like in the late 19th century, we need a Trudeau-Kissinger structure of peace.

[August1991]

3 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

I would suggest that it is rather back to the 17th Century

23 May 1618

 

The Defenestration of Prague in 1618 started the Thirty Years War

The Bastille in 1789 started the Napoleonic Wars

The Assassination in Sarajevo started the Germanic Wars.

====

Call it what you will, Europeans fight every few generations.

 

[blackbird]

48 minutes ago, August1991 said:

China and Russia are nowadays not a threat to the West

"

The director of the FBI has said that acts of espionage and theft by China's government pose the "greatest long-term threat" to the future of the US.

Speaking to the Hudson Institute in Washington, Christopher Wray described a multi-pronged disruption campaign.

He said China had begun targeting Chinese nationals living abroad, coercing their return, and was working to compromise US coronavirus research.

"The stakes could not be higher," Mr Wray said.

"China is engaged in a whole-of-state effort to become the world's only superpower by any means necessary," he added.

The spying game: China's global network

Could TikTok be banned in the US?

The Hong Kong crisis and the new world order

In a nearly hour-long speech on Tuesday, the FBI director outlined a stark picture of Chinese interference, a far-reaching campaign of economic espionage, data and monetary theft and illegal political activities, using bribery and blackmail to influence US policy.

"We've now reached a point where the FBI is now opening a new China-related counterintelligence case every 10 hours," Mr Wray said. "Of the nearly 5,000 active counterintelligence cases currently under way across the country, almost half are related to China."

The FBI director mentioned a programme called "Fox Hunt", which he said President Xi Jinping had "spearheaded" and he said was geared at Chinese nationals living abroad seen as threats to the Chinese government.

"We're talking about political rivals, dissidents, and critics seeking to expose China's extensive human rights violations," he said. "The Chinese government wants to force them to return to China, and China's tactics to accomplish that are shocking."

FBI director: China is 'greatest threat' to US (bbc.com)

[August1991]

19 minutes ago, blackbird said:

The director of the FBI has said that...

.....

Blackbird, you kinda lost me there.

====

Nevertheless, I read your post. (Not the links.)

In Brezhnev times, with much difficulty, I traveled.  Communism was a threat. The Soviets wanted to take over the world.

Deng Xiao Ping made it possible for me to travel to China in the early 1980s.

=============

This current 21st century world is much better. Ordinary people are free.

But I fear that our current elite is making things worse.

 

[August1991]

There was this wonderful period in Europe between 1890-1910.

Or, after 1990

Silver years.

[blackbird]

9 hours ago, August1991 said:

Blackbird, you kinda lost me there.

You said Russia and China are not a threat to the west.  

I just gave you an article with all kinds of information countering your claim.

There has been many articles, books, commentaries by experts, describing how China has a history of violating human rights, how they are a threat to the U.S., how they interfere in Canadian elections.  How China is working to become the main superpower in the world.    But you don't seem to believe or accept any of it.  You are completely out of reality.  You don't seem to know what is going on in the world.  

9 hours ago, August1991 said:

Ordinary people are free.

What are you talking about?  What ordinary people?

People in China are not "free".  They are free to do what the Communist Party has decreed. 

China has a history of violating human rights and this has been pointed out repeatedly by governments in the west.

China uses their agents in the west to force Chinese people in America and Canada to do their will.  They use intimidation, threats to their relatives in China.   The CCP considers Americans and Canadians of Chinese descent under the authority of China.  You don't think that is violation of human rights?  Seriously.

 

[blackbird]

10 hours ago, August1991 said:

This current 21st century world is much better. Ordinary people are free.

This is bizarre.  

Heads of FBI and MI5 issue strong warning about threat to the West from China (nbcnews.com)

Read it or don't read it.  You probably won't because you are convinced there is no threat from China and you somehow won't accept any reports from anyone to the contrary.  I don't have time to waste on someone who won't listen to anything. 

Canada is loaded with entirely brainwashed Communist sympathizers.

Jagmeet is one.  All he can come up with is "the greedy corporations".  Sounds like a Communist/Marxist mantra.

Edited April 18 by blackbird

[blackbird]

On 1/2/2024 at 10:58 AM, Army Guy said:

Not sure why your hung up on this topic...you seem to bring it up every occasion you can....regardless of why NATO was put into play, nothing has really changed, The Russians still pose a threat to Europe,

Not sure exactly why he believes Russia and China are no longer a threat to the west.

Unless he is some kind of agent or Commie sympathizer.  There is no excuse for not knowing what is going on in the world with all the sources of information, media, internet, books, etc.  But I suspect there are a lot of Commie supporters in Canada.  They have been brainwashed by the ideology.

The NDP even has some kind of Communist bent.  All Jagmeet can talk about is the "greedy corporations".  That sounds more like a commie line.  It is meant to brainwash the masses.  Many in Canada have fallen for the Socialist lie.