Wedge Issues -Federal Canada

[August1991]

Wedge issues divide voters.

You must vote A, or vote B.

In Canada, we have such federal elections. In 1988, we voted on Free Trade. In 1911, we voted on Reciprocity. 

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In Canada, the worst happens when the wedge is on religious/linguistic lines: the Conscription Crisis of 1917 is an example.

Another one: Les Gens de l'air in 1976.

An issue that divides people on racial/tribal/communal/religious/language lines.

Americans will know this is as the OJ Simpson trial.

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We Canadians get along.

 

Edited December 20, 2023 by August1991

[Moonlight Graham]

3 hours ago, August1991 said:

We Canadians get along.

Do Francophone schools in Quebec have students sing the national anthem in the mornings like much of the rest of the country?  I'm beginning to think most do not:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/schools-should-sing-national-anthem-says-st-lazare-resident-1.1331635

Do they sign the anthem in indigenous schools on reserves?  Is there a school in the continental US that doesn't sing the US anthem and/or recite the pledge of allegiance?  Doubtful.

Here's a wedge issue:  does a voter consider themselves "Canadian" in nationality, and are they glad to be one?

[Michael Hardner]

3 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

 

Here's a wedge issue:  does a voter consider themselves "Canadian" in nationality, and are they glad to be one?

Politicians like wedge issues that they can win.

Nobody would force a national anthem law, other than a regional party who wanted to stoke division.

[I am Groot]

9 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Here's a wedge issue:  does a voter consider themselves "Canadian" in nationality, and are they glad to be one?

This is from a few years ago when Cameron was prime minister of the UK. He was echoing Angela Merkel and French prime minister Nicolas Sarkozy 

He said the doctrine of state multiculturalism" had encouraged segregation.

A genuinely liberal country "believes in certain values and actively promotes them", Mr Cameron said. "Freedom of speech. Freedom of worship. Democracy. The rule of law. Equal rights, regardless of race, sex or sexuality. It says to its citizens: This is what defines us as a society. To belong here is to believe these things."

He said under the "doctrine of state multiculturalism", different cultures have been encouraged to live separate lives. "We have failed to provide a vision of society to which they feel they want to belong. We have even tolerated these segregated communities behaving in ways that run counter to our values."

I believe he's absolutely correct. Unfortunately, while the UK, France, Germany and other places in Europe have abandoned multiculturalism Trudeau has doubled down on it. And the national media still embraces it with such enthusiasm that anyone who questions it causes a national scandal. 

Note that while Cameron also said the state had to create a national vision and ensure that all newcomers spoke the language and were educated in elements of our common culture. Trudeau, meanwhile, was proud to say we have no 'core identity'. He somehow thought that was a good thing. Though I bet he'd never dare say it in Quebec in French.

 

[ExFlyer]

On 12/20/2023 at 2:08 AM, Moonlight Graham said:

Do Francophone schools in Quebec have students sing the national anthem in the mornings like much of the rest of the country?  I'm beginning to think most do not:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/schools-should-sing-national-anthem-says-st-lazare-resident-1.1331635

Do they sign the anthem in indigenous schools on reserves?  Is there a school in the continental US that doesn't sing the US anthem and/or recite the pledge of allegiance?  Doubtful.

Here's a wedge issue:  does a voter consider themselves "Canadian" in nationality, and are they glad to be one?

Many Canadians seem to be XXX- Canadian.

Are they glad to be Canadian? Only when they are back in their home country and shit breaks loose and Canada brings them back to Canada for free and gives them places to live and money for free.

[August1991]

On 12/20/2023 at 2:08 AM, Moonlight Graham said:

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Here's a wedge issue:  does a voter consider themselves "Canadian" in nationality, and are they glad to be one?

Moonlight Graham, you pose a typical racial/communal wedge issue: "Canadian".

In 1988, we Canadians voted on a wedge issue. And we crossed lines.

[Army Guy]

On 12/19/2023 at 11:39 PM, August1991 said:

 

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We Canadians get along.

 

You keep saying we get along but, most would say there is more that divides us than pulls us together, maybe Canadians just don't give a shit of things that happen outside their bubble....giving the illusion of we get along....maybe you can come up with a short list of how Canadians get along...

[Legato]

8 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

..maybe you can come up with a short list of how Canadians get along...

When the gov screws you over all they say is "Cmon get along, nothing to see here".

[August1991]

3 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

You keep saying we get along but, most would say there is more that divides us than pulls us together, maybe Canadians just don't give a shit of things that happen outside their bubble....giving the illusion of we get along....maybe you can come up with a short list of how Canadians get along...

Army Guy,

I was recently in Toronto, Downtown, Cheap hotel on Queen Street West.

Hungry, I stepped out around 10pm looking for food. For 16$, I bought a - dunno what.

I'm no Trudeau Jnr supporter - but Canada is a good place.

 

[August1991]

Army Guy,

Years ago, I was in Aleppo. I remember looking for a restaurant in a similar way.

[August1991]

2 hours ago, Legato said:

When the gov screws you over all they say is "Cmon get along, nothing to see here".

Many foreigners want to live in Ontario - even Quebec.

And it's cold here!

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I have met foreigners in Norway who asked me how to move to Canada.

I have never, ever, met someone who wants to move to Argentina, Nigeria, Russia.

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Many, many years ago, I lived in London, UK. I learned English- sortof. I remember meeting an American woman and in a pub, a discussion with a man from Greece: Her phrase: "But everyone wants to live in America."

The Greek man and I looked at each other.

Clueless.

 

 

[Army Guy]

19 hours ago, August1991 said:

Army Guy,

I was recently in Toronto, Downtown, Cheap hotel on Queen Street West.

Hungry, I stepped out around 10pm looking for food. For 16$, I bought a - dunno what.

I'm no Trudeau Jnr supporter - but Canada is a good place.

 

August, thats the example you want to use, you can get a i dunno what for 16 $... Years ago i could get a full meal in Egypt for just 2 bucks American, and i knew what it was, does not mean things were good in the country.... . Thats a pretty shitty example of how we get along....and yet lets talk about how treat our homeless, our veterans, how There are separatist parties in Quebec, Alberta, Sask, how parents rights are being trumped by the school boards and LBGTQ lobby groups, how our government thinks diversity hiring is going to make things even across the board for minority groups...there is a lot more things that tear us apart rather than bring us together... like i said Most Canadians don't give a rats ass about Canada, but rather what this nation can give them for free...we have become a nation of "give it to  me now" there is no pride in our nation, we have become divided by our government, by other lobby groups, by other governments...We are the weak link in the running of our own nation let alone in global affairs...

Canada use to be a good place, today it is almost embarrassing to be called a Canadian, we have become a nation of free loaders and some how that is something to be proud of......Canada may look like a good place out your window...but if you get a bigger picture it does not look as rosy as you point it out to be... 

[August1991]

On 12/24/2023 at 6:47 PM, Army Guy said:

... . Thats a pretty shitty example of how we get along....and yet lets talk about how treat our homeless, our veterans, how There are separatist parties in Quebec, Alberta, Sask, how parents rights are being trumped by the school boards and LBGTQ lobby groups, how our government thinks diversity hiring is going to make things even across the board for minority groups...there is a lot more things that tear us apart rather than bring us together...

Compared to Aleppo?

Compared to stubborn Slavic Ukrainians/Russians?

Compared to our southern neighbours?  

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We Canadians get along - peacefully.

[Army Guy]

20 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Compared to Aleppo?

Compared to stubborn Slavic Ukrainians/Russians?

Compared to our southern neighbours?  

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We Canadians get along - peacefully.

Sure compare it to the worst examples in the globe...instead stick to G-8 nations lets start there...or Europe...and there is nothing wrong with our neighbors to the south, they freedoms are defined in writing, and can not be changed...unlike our freedoms which are pretty vague, and don't go into detail as the American...they can defend their home and family, they have property rights, they can bear arms, etc etc...and yes they have problems we don't but you rarely here about any state wanting to leave the union, do you. 

Peacefully , is that what you call it...what do Quebecor's call Acadians ?what does the west ( from Ontario west)call Quebecor's...or Atlantic provinces...

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Army Guy

[August1991]

7 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Sure compare it to the worst examples in the globe...instead stick to G-8 nations lets start there...

...

First, for those that think that AI can work, look back at this discussion.

Second, to me, Lebanon and Syria are like Quebec. (Lebanon is Montreal, Syrians are Quebecers.)

Third, I remember when Trudeau Snr spoke in Quebec City.

[I am Groot]

19 hours ago, August1991 said:

Compared to Aleppo?

Compared to stubborn Slavic Ukrainians/Russians?

Compared to our southern neighbours?  

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We Canadians get along - peacefully.

It only takes one thing to inspire them, and Quebec's many separatist parties will hold a referendum and perhaps win this time and then Quebec will be a separate country fighting natives in the north who don't want to go and threatening east-west traffic between the two separated parts of Canada.

[August1991]

On 12/28/2023 at 4:12 PM, I am Groot said:

It only takes one thing to inspire them, and Quebec's many separatist parties will hold a referendum and perhaps win this time and then Quebec will be a separate country fighting natives in the north who don't want to go and threatening east-west traffic between the two separated parts of Canada.

Wow!

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I know ArmyGuy is real. I trust you are too.

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Years ago, in Sri Lanka - late 1983 or so, I began to think that about 5% of the population can make the rest of us awful.

[August1991]

On 12/27/2023 at 8:49 PM, Army Guy said:

Sure compare it to the worst examples in the globe...instead stick to G-8 nations lets start there...or Europe...and there is nothing wrong with our neighbors to the south

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Peacefully , is that what you call it...what do Quebecor's call Acadians ?what does the west ( from Ontario west)call Quebecor's...or Atlantic provinces...

 

After 1991 and the defeat of Soviet World Marxism Communism- I now think that we all should have moved on.

NATO? Why does it still exist in 2023?

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I remember these 1990s times. I agreed with Clinton: Partnership for Peace.  

[Army Guy]

15 hours ago, August1991 said:

After 1991 and the defeat of Soviet World Marxism Communism- I now think that we all should have moved on.

NATO? Why does it still exist in 2023?

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I remember these 1990s times. I agreed with Clinton: Partnership for Peace.  

How do we go from we Canadians get along to NATO...your response are very cryptic, not sure if it is a language problem, or if your not understanding my posts...

First Russia is still alive and well, infact they have decided to start grabbing some of it's old territory back, by military force.... Europe is doing what the soviet union once down grabbed up all the surrounding countries to form a barrier for Russia...those ex Warsaw nations are doing this by allowing them access to the European union...and for most it makes becoming a NATO member easier...

Russia biggest mistake was thinking NATO was going to sit around and watch...and now NATO who has been asleep for 30 years is now waking up and starting to rearm, becasue of Russian aggression...Today NATO is not a threat to Russia it barely able to look after it's own borders...Why is Canada having a hard time assembling a BATTLE GROUP, becasue we suck.......Russia mean while is still throwing thousands of it's men into a meat grinder, and has no intention of stopping...until it gets what it wants or Putin is over thrown...life's means nothing to Russia, never has.

So why do we need NATO again? NATO is nothing more than a club where a few members have the ability to wage war.. the others are just a weight hanging on to it's neck....and some are like Canada, we are in the club, we don't following any of the rules, becasue we know western countries are to polite to kick us out, and that is slowly changing as Canada is being left out in the cold on some vital NATO issues...It's not something to be proud of...it is something to be afraid off...

Canada will support any conflict that involves NATO, thats a given.....but it will do that with all our shitty equipment...who is going to pay, our sons and daughters with their lives...we have shown the same thing in 3 conflicts already so it is not a surprise........Becasue we as a nation have decided it is cheaper to bury our sons and daughters than give them the equipment to do a job we have asked them to do...now how is that for national sprite, does it make you proud, make you want to stand up and salute...it makes me sick, embarrassed to be Canadian, we are not united, nor do we get along...we just don't care enough to take action...it is outside our bubble

Don't worry we have as a nation set aside one half day to honor our soldiers sacrifices, we will honor your sons, daughters then go home and forget they even existed...Their memory will be held intact by the veterans and their families....Becasue rest of Canadian don't really care.... those unlucky enough to survive these conflicts well they will be asking for to much at that moment of they need us the most, thrown into a corner, only to watch their numbers shrink due to them taking their own lives... fU*K YA, makes you proud to be Canadian doesn't.

[I am Groot]

On 12/30/2023 at 8:26 PM, August1991 said:

Wow!

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I know ArmyGuy is real. I trust you are too.

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Years ago, in Sri Lanka - late 1983 or so, I began to think that about 5% of the population can make the rest of us awful.

Who's going to win the next Quebec provincial election?

[August1991]

On 12/31/2023 at 1:25 PM, Army Guy said:

....

So why do we need NATO again? NATO is nothing more than a club where a few members have the ability to wage war..

....

Agreed.

Like SEATO, to defeat (after Hitler), we in the civilised West wanted to defeat the Soviets/Communists. In 1989 and in 1991, we did.

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IMHO, we no longer need NATO. Or SEATO.

[August1991]

The division between Maoist China and Soviet Russia was perhaps more significant.

Trudeau Snr noticed it first - in his writings for Le Devoir; Nixon later.

Edited January 2 by August1991

[Army Guy]

ANOTHER WEDGE ISSUE,I can't make this stuff up....Liberals at their finest

 

[cougar]

On 12/23/2023 at 7:48 PM, August1991 said:

Army Guy,

I was recently in Toronto, Downtown, Cheap hotel on Queen Street West.

Hungry, I stepped out around 10pm looking for food. For 16$, I bought a - dunno what.

I'm no Trudeau Jnr supporter - but Canada is a good place.

 

I am really confused with your standards.   So if you can find a cheap hotel (which I am sure was not cheap based on international prices, but otherwise felt cheap and crappy, because this is what you get in Canada for about $200/night) , and a cheap meal (again $16 is not cheap by international standards and this for a decent meal, while you got some sort of a small burger, fries from a frozen pack and a can of pop or TH cup of coffee)..this means the country is great ???  !!!!!

Wow!   I am left speechless

[I am Groot]

A wedge issue will be Trudeauj and the Liberals finding some Conservative somewhere, maybe a candidate, maybe a spokesthingee or a fund raiser or someone associated with security - doesn't matter - someone they can point to and say "He's a racist!" Then they'll wave at the entire party and say "See!? They're white supremacists! Or... sort of like white supermacists... or anyway, they tolerate white supremacists! Be scared! Vote Liberal! Be scared visible minorities! They hate you! Save yourselves! Vote Liberal!"

Did it last election. Did it the election before that. They'll do it again. Because it doesn't matter if most people dismiss it. All they need to do is sow doubt among people who are fairly new to Canada and whose English isn't all that good and whose knowledge of politics here is even worse.

 

 

Edited January 10 by I am Groot