Israel Orders Mass Gaza Evacuations as It Expands Operation

[CdnFox]

5 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

CORRECTION: The Palestinians living in Gaza, ELECTED Hamas. They are ALL combatants.

 

Well - they're not ALL 'combatants' - just because you voted for a war doesn't mean you're a fighter.

 But - that doesn't mean all the civillians are 'civillians' either. Many women and children are being used to ferry weapons and ammo to the soldiers and to carry messages etc etc.  Those people are actively involved in the war and are fair game.  But of course - if a woman pushing a pram full of ammo gets hit by israeli fire they'll quickly clean up the ammo and start crying for the cameras about how this innocent woman got shot for no reason.

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Many women and children are being used to ferry weapons and ammo to the soldiers and to carry messages etc etc.  Those people are actively involved in the war and are fair game.  But of course - if a woman pushing a pram full of ammo gets hit by israeli fire they'll quickly clean up the ammo and start crying for the cameras about how this innocent woman got shot for no reason.

Part of the reason that people here think that Hamas's numbers are legit is that they're always impossible to verify.

No reporters/journalists who aren't from Al Zazeera can go there, so there's no way of seeing what's going on in real time.

We get reports that Hamas is actively blocking civilians from leaving areas that are about to be bombed, but Al Jazeera isn't going to show report on that and no one else is there. 

Generally: "YOU CAN'T PHOTOGRAPH WHAT WE ARE DOING HERE!" means "We can't be trusted" in the eyes of anyone with a brain. 

[Hodad]

7 hours ago, Rebound said:

So more Jewish deaths is  better and more humane than more Arab deaths?  
 

Jews have mothers, too. These soldiers are just kids who are drafted.  Why are their lives worth less? 

Your logic and math are both wrong. There is no implications in my statement whatsoever about the relative value of life for each side. Nor is the any reason to expect that the IDF would suffer greater losses than HAMAS (that's highly unlikely).

And, in terms of numbers, 1,300 Jewish civilians were killed, and 10x that many Palestinians. Actually, the Palestinian death toll is in excess of 15K. But let's assume that some of those were actually Hamas fighters instead of families. So if you want to talk about the lives of one semitic group being worth more than another, the imbalance is dramatically in the other direction.

I am, in general, a firm supporter of Israel, and have been as long as you've seen my posts. But it doesn't mean I think individual policies or choices are beyond criticism. And in this case, they are really farking up. 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Hodad

[Hodad]

8 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

You would be sending your soldiers to their slaughter, against a foe that not only is better prepared, but can better hide for surprise ambushes and pick apart the Israel military. 

I don't understand how you don't approach this with a form of air support, or bombing campaign.

They leveled a lot of the city, making building to building fighting easier.

Israel must prioritize the lives of their soldiers.

I suppose building-to-building fighting is much easier once there are no more buildings. 

Yes, boots on the ground incurs more risk and loss than bombs in the air. But sacrificing thousands of non-combatants to minimize risk to ground forces in an elective (elective vs existential) conflict does come with consequences. It's a calculation. And in my view, Israel has gravely miscalculated. If they persist, they will come out of this looking like bad guys. Looking like war criminals, creeping ever closer to genocide.

[Hodad]

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

470 isn't confirmed any more than 100-300 is, and why are you taking the word of people who raped and burned women and children to death? 

A. The Gaza Health Ministry didn't rape or burn anyone. They aren't soldiers. They are hospital staff and administrators.?

B. For the umpteenth time, their figures are given credence because they have been historically credible. And literally no one is in a better position to count the bodies.

C. Is there a number of times that I can give that same answer, after which you will stop asking the same question? 

 

 

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

You Hodad...win the Groovy Guy of the Day award for this...bit of nonsense.

Congarats.

Sorry, did you have some kind of intelligent point to make?

[robosmith]

3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

CORRECTION: The Palestinians living in Gaza, ELECTED Hamas. They are ALL combatants.

And Israelis elected Netanyahu. So what? Almost ALL Israelis served in the military, and are subject to RECALL.

So they are ALL combatants, too. Duh

Even the women, but not the children.

3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Genocide is the elimination of a genome. Hence the root of the word "genocide". Israel could bomb Gaza to Hell completely, and still not qualify for "genocide". Your empty accusation is inaccurate and limp.

^Intellectual bankruptcy. According to YOUR "logic," genocide can never be done because it's impossible to wipe every member of an ethnic group. Ridiculous.

[robosmith]

1 hour ago, Hodad said:

A. The Gaza Health Ministry didn't rape or burn anyone. They aren't soldiers. They are hospital staff and administrators.?

B. For the umpteenth time, their figures are given credence because they have been historically credible. And literally no one is in a better position to count the bodies.

From your cite, according to the AP:

Quote

In previous wars, the ministry’s counts have held up to U.N. scrutiny, independent investigations and even Israel’s tallies.

1 hour ago, Hodad said:

C. Is there a number of times that I can give that same answer, after which you will stop asking the same question?

He hasn't learned how to read links.

1 hour ago, Hodad said:

Sorry, did you have some kind of intelligent point to make?

He never does. Intellectually bankrupt.

[Rebound]

2 hours ago, Hodad said:

Your logic and math are both wrong. There is no implications in my statement whatsoever about the relative value of life for each side. Nor is the any reason to expect that the IDF would suffer greater losses than HAMAS (that's highly unlikely).

And, in terms of numbers, 1,300 Jewish civilians were killed, and 10x that many Palestinians. Actually, the Palestinian death toll is in excess of 15K. But let's assume that some of those were actually Hamas fighters instead of families. So if you want to talk about the lives of one semitic group being worth more than another, the imbalance is dramatically in the other direction.

I am, in general, a firm supporter of Israel, and have been as long as you've seen my posts. But it doesn't mean I think individual policies or choices are beyond criticism. And in this case, they are really farking up. 

My friend, this simply is not how warfare has ever worked.  It’s not a football game.  There is no referee keeping score.  The two sides fight until one or both surrender, under terms of truce or otherwise.  
 

You need to think about what you’re suggesting. There simply is not an umpire.  This war originally broke out in 1948 and the side that fights Israel has lost every time.

There’s the argument that Jews “stole” Arab land. But two million Palestinian Arabs live in Israel and the rest re-located. By comparison, since 1948, Jews were forcibly expelled from Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Yemen and Afghanistan. 
 

What about THAT??  CRICKETS!!! “It’s ok to expel Jews, but Palestinians can’t be moved ten miles!” The Palestinians have received refugee aid for 75 years.  They’ve refused to establish a nation on their own land for 75 years, and instead choose terrorism. They receive billions in humanitarian aid and illegally spend it on tunnels and rockets for a war they cannot win.   Did Jews start wars with the countries that expelled them? No. They moved to an infinitesimally small piece of land and turned it into a nation.  
 

The Palestinians are the aggressors.  You know perfectly well that Hamas started this.  Israel has found over 800 tunnel entrances so far, and nearly all are in civilian locations such as playgrounds, daycares, and hospitals.  And you think Israel should sit on their butts and let Hamas murder another 2,000 citizens.  No sir. The nation you live in would not accept that.  No nation would accept that.  If Hamas surrenders and returns the hostages, the fighting ends.  

[robosmith]

50 minutes ago, Rebound said:

My friend, this simply is not how warfare has ever worked.  It’s not a football game.  There is no referee keeping score.  The two sides fight until one or both surrender, under terms of truce or otherwise.  
 

You need to think about what you’re suggesting. There simply is not an umpire.  This war originally broke out in 1948 and the side that fights Israel has lost every time.

There’s the argument that Jews “stole” Arab land. But two million Palestinian Arabs live in Israel and the rest re-located. By comparison, since 1948, Jews were forcibly expelled from Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Yemen and Afghanistan. 
 

What about THAT??  CRICKETS!!! “It’s ok to expel Jews, but Palestinians can’t be moved ten miles!” The Palestinians have received refugee aid for 75 years.  They’ve refused to establish a nation on their own land for 75 years, and instead choose terrorism. They receive billions in humanitarian aid and illegally spend it on tunnels and rockets for a war they cannot win.   Did Jews start wars with the countries that expelled them? No. They moved to an infinitesimally small piece of land and turned it into a nation.  
 

The Palestinians are the aggressors.  You know perfectly well that Hamas started this.  Israel has found over 800 tunnel entrances so far, and nearly all are in civilian locations such as playgrounds, daycares, and hospitals.  And you think Israel should sit on their butts and let Hamas murder another 2,000 citizens.  No sir. The nation you live in would not accept that.  No nation would accept that.  If Hamas surrenders and returns the hostages, the fighting ends.  

There are currently international laws that govern war that did not exist in 1948. Israel is a signatory.

Those laws PROTECT civilians' lives.

Summary of the Geneva Conventions of 1949 and Their Additional Protocols

[Fluffypants]

20 minutes ago, robosmith said:

There are currently international laws that govern war that did not exist in 1948. Israel is a signatory.

Those laws PROTECT civilians' lives.

Summary of the Geneva Conventions of 1949 and Their Additional Protocols

Hamas broke the convention first, in other words those laws and only in place when both sides play by the rules. You really need to read the Geneva Convention and see that.

Hamas started this by attacking civilian locations on purpose and they use the Palestinians as human shields by using hospitals, mosques and schools as bases for their operations, also against the Geneva Convention. You can't fight a war with both hands tied behind your back while the other side is doing whatever they want.

[NAME REMOVED]

Hindsight is everything, but if Israel could only go back to 1949, and delay any type of cease fire with the Arab countries, they would have likely driven all the Palestinians into Jordan and Egypt.  

From my understanding of the conflict, the Jews were barely holding their own in the spring of 1948 after the Arab countries declared war on them in May.  However, the tide began to turn thanks to countries sympathetic to the idea of a Jewish state in Europe and North America provided Israel with military aid.

By the cease fire in 1949, the Jews were clearly routing the Arabs and had driven 700,000 Palestinians out of the Holy Land.

31 minutes ago, robosmith said:

There are currently international laws that govern war that did not exist in 1948. Israel is a signatory.

Those laws PROTECT civilians' lives.

Summary of the Geneva Conventions of 1949 and Their Additional Protocols

I don't think following the Geneva conventions is of great concern to many countries in the 21st century. The three most powerful countries - the USA, Russia, and China have all repeatedly violated the convention. 

[robosmith]

7 minutes ago, Fluffypants said:

Hamas broke the convention first, in other words those laws and only in place when both sides play by the rules. You really need to read the Geneva Convention and see that.

Hamas started this by attacking civilian locations on purpose and they use the Palestinians as human shields by using hospitals, mosques and schools as bases for their operations, also against the Geneva Convention. You can't fight a war with both hands tied behind your back while the other side is doing whatever they want.

Hamas is unlikely to be a signatory to the GC. The US is saying too many civilians are dying.

Palestinian civilians played no role in the Hamas attacks on Oct 7th, but are paying a much higher price than Hamas fighters. 1200 dead Israelis vs. 15,000 deaths of those trapped in Gaza is unsustainable.

At that ratio, when all Hamas fighters are wiped out, so will ALL 2M of the Palestinians in Gaza. IMO that is unacceptable.

[Fluffypants]

Just now, robosmith said:

Hamas is unlikely to be a signatory to the GC. The US is saying too many civilians are dying.

Palestinian civilians played no role in the Hamas attacks on Oct 7th, but are paying a much higher price than Hamas fighters. 1200 dead Israelis vs. 15,000 deaths of those trapped in Gaza is unsustainable.

At that ratio, when all Hamas fighters are wiped out, so will ALL 2M of the Palestinians in Gaza. IMO that is unacceptable.

They didn't have anything to do with it? They allow them to barricade themselves in schools and hospitals. They elected them to be their leaders. I would say they had plenty to do with it.

And man the civilians looked super happy celebrating the terrorist attack and throwing things at the hostages.

[WestCanMan]

4 hours ago, Hodad said:

A. The Gaza Health Ministry didn't rape or burn anyone. They aren't soldiers. They are hospital staff and administrators.?

And you think that they can just say what they want, with no pressure from the terrorists who literally run Gaza as a dictatorship? ?

Not a "Donald Trump dictatorship, with mean tweets directed at actual criminals, where the leader is subjected to unlawful show trials and MSM slander 24/7", Gaza is a "religiously bigoted, hate-fuelled, amped-for-genocide terrorist dictatorship" along the same lines as islamic state. And you think that the hospital staff there can just tell teh truth with no interference.

Gawd you're a stupid, stupid, stupid little man.

Quote

B. For the umpteenth time, their figures are given credence because they have been historically credible. And literally no one is in a better position to count the bodies.

Interesting:

• Your own article casts doubt on the numbers from the hospital incident
• Their death toll on Oct 27th was

Quote

But on Oct. 27, in response to U.S. doubts over its figures, the ministry released a 212-page report listing every Palestinian killed in the war so far, including their names, ID numbers, ages and gender. A copy of the report shared with the AP named 6,747 Palestinians and said an additional 281 bodies have not yet been identified. The list did not provide a breakdown by location.

• of the 6,747+281 (7,028) it doesn't even say how many were terrorists. It's doubtful that they killed less than 2-3,000 thousand terrorists, and of the other 4,000 people, many would have been terrorist supporters anyways. 

And keep in mind, when the ministry records dead "children", that includes the likes of the "children" in this video who were spitting on the corpse of a raped and murdered peace activist (oh the irony):

Is it really a bad thing if the people in that video are all killed?  

Quote

C. Is there a number of times that I can give that same answer, after which you will stop asking the same question?

Your "answers" aren't worth shit, Hodad. That's the problem. 

Edited December 5, 2023 by WestCanMan
I forgot about November - my bad.

[robosmith]

4 minutes ago, Fluffypants said:

They didn't have anything to do with it? They allow them to barricade themselves in schools and hospitals. They elected them to be their leaders. I would say they had plenty to do with it.

Only because of your IGNORANCE. There has not been ANY election in Gaza for 15 years.

There is NO "allow themselves" in Gaza. They do what Hamas demands at the point of a gun.

4 minutes ago, Fluffypants said:

And man the civilians looked super happy celebrating the terrorist attack and throwing things at the hostages.

How many did you count? Was it more than a dozen out of 2 MILLION?

And how do you know they weren't Hamas? Ignorance AGAIN.

Edited December 5, 2023 by robosmith

[Rebound]

48 minutes ago, robosmith said:

There are currently international laws that govern war that did not exist in 1948. Israel is a signatory.

Those laws PROTECT civilians' lives.

Summary of the Geneva Conventions of 1949 and Their Additional Protocols

Sure. For example, “Hospitals should be protected during conflict.” But Hamas stored weapons in a hospital and dug an enormous tunnel underneath it to store weapons and use as a command center.  
 

Israel does not have to abide by rules which their enemy exploits to advantage. 

[robosmith]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

 

Interesting:

• Your own article casts doubt on the numbers from the hospital incident
• Their death toll on Oct 27th was

Quote

But on Oct. 27, in response to U.S. doubts over its figures, the ministry released a 212-page report listing every Palestinian killed in the war so far, including their names, ID numbers, ages and gender. A copy of the report shared with the AP named 6,747 Palestinians and said an additional 281 bodies have not yet been identified. The list did not provide a breakdown by location.

• which is way down from the number of 15,000 that's being floated around now, only 8 days later, and about 7 of those days there were almost zero deaths...
• 6,747 is approximately the number of "children" that were reportedly killed, last I heard I think people were saying 6,100?
• of the 6,747+281 (7,028) it doesn't even say how many were terrorists. It's doubtful that they killed less than 2-3,000 thousand terrorists, and of the other 4,000 people, many would have been terrorist supporters anyways. 

 

Now is much more than "8 days later" than Oct 27th. lDIOT.

Thanks for destroying your credibility what little there was left.

Edited December 5, 2023 by robosmith

[robosmith]

5 minutes ago, Rebound said:

Sure. For example, “Hospitals should be protected during conflict.” But Hamas stored weapons in a hospital and dug an enormous tunnel underneath it to store weapons and use as a command center.  
 

Israel does not have to abide by rules which their enemy exploits to advantage. 

I'm sorry, but the IDF took way too long to dig up that "evidence" to make it credible.

I believe adherence to the GC does not optionally depend on the opponent's agreement. 

Is there an escape clause?

Gaza is fully controlled by Israel at its borders, so they set the most of the rules.

[Legato]

9 minutes ago, robosmith said:

I'm sorry, but the IDF took way too long to dig up that "evidence" to make it credible.

 

and the evidence from Hamas is credible?

That strike killed 500 people and 550 were children.

[Hodad]

2 hours ago, Rebound said:

My friend, this simply is not how warfare has ever worked.  It’s not a football game.  There is no referee keeping score.  The two sides fight until one or both surrender, under terms of truce or otherwise.  
 

I'm not sure I follow. There are rules that govern warfare. While there's no referee, the countries that operate outside of the rules, those who are seen to transgress the norms of conflict, do face consequences in the global community.

Quote

You need to think about what you’re suggesting. There simply is not an umpire.  This war originally broke out in 1948 and the side that fights Israel has lost every time.

There’s the argument that Jews “stole” Arab land. But two million Palestinian Arabs live in Israel and the rest re-located. By comparison, since 1948, Jews were forcibly expelled from Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Yemen and Afghanistan. 
 

All true. But not really relevant to what is happening today or the actions Israel is taking today. Everybody--including terrorist groups--rationalize the murder of civilians based on past grievances. Everyone knows that the Jewish people have a long history of being mistreated. However, that knowledge doesn't do much to change the feeling when we now see them mistreating another powerless group. Nobody cares if Israel fights Hamas. More power to them. But many thousands of dead non-combatants is a problem. 

Quote

What about THAT??  CRICKETS!!! “It’s ok to expel Jews, but Palestinians can’t be moved ten miles!” The Palestinians have received refugee aid for 75 years.  They’ve refused to establish a nation on their own land for 75 years, and instead choose terrorism. They receive billions in humanitarian aid and illegally spend it on tunnels and rockets for a war they cannot win.   Did Jews start wars with the countries that expelled them? No. They moved to an infinitesimally small piece of land and turned it into a nation.  
 

The Palestinians are the aggressors.  You know perfectly well that Hamas started this.  Israel has found over 800 tunnel entrances so far, and nearly all are in civilian locations such as playgrounds, daycares, and hospitals.  And you think Israel should sit on their butts and let Hamas murder another 2,000 citizens.  No sir. The nation you live in would not accept that.  No nation would accept that.  If Hamas surrenders and returns the hostages, the fighting ends.  

Well, I know that the terrible Hamas attack triggered this round of reprisals. But you can bet the Palestinians do not feel like they "started it." To them, the "start" was long ago. They very much feel like this is an act of defiance in a decades-long state of oppression. And it's a point not without some merit. Does that make Hamas right? Nope. They were wrong. But Palestinians are inarguably in a shitty situation and have been for ages.

At any rate, the "who started it" conversation is really beside the point. It doesn't really matter who started it. The historical finger-pointing is not what people are concerned about. The world was horrified when 1,300 Israeli civilians were murdered. The world is increasingly horrified that the response to that is murder thousands of Palestinian non-combatants. It's not even an eye for an eye. It's ten eyes for an eye.  It doesn't feel like justice anymore. It feels like a solution. It feels like a pointlessly bloody escalation. 

Let me reiterate: Israel needs allies. It needs support from the United States, among others. And one of the absolute best ways to undermine and eventually lose that support is by becoming--in a shocking and public way-- the brutal oppressors that the Palestinian's have been telling the world about. If the hegemonic state looks like a villain, today's terrorists start to look like tomorrow's freedom fighters. 
 

[WestCanMan]

35 minutes ago, Hodad said:

Well, I know that the terrible Hamas attack triggered this round of reprisals. But you can bet the Palestinians do not feel like they "started it."

If you listen to the muslims in Canada they'll tell you the exact same thing. 

All they remember is the two attacks that happened against them, they don't feel like there's any connection between those 2 attacks and the half-dozen muslim terrorist attacks that happened prior to the first one, and the next half-dozen terrorist attacks they committed before the second one. 

"The start date of every conflict is the day that someone retaliates against us, uh, attacks us for no reason!"

I'd love to hear your story about their BS start date. 

Edit:

Here's how muslims view, or at least talk about, the issue of muslim/Canadian relations in Canada: https://www.nccm.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Policy-Recommendations_NCCM.pdf

Quote

More Muslims have been killed in targeted hate-attacks in Canada than any other G-7 country in the past 5 years because of Islamophobia.

Because of "Islamophobia", really?

It had nothing to do with "islamophobia", it had to do with all of the terrorists attacks by muslims here before any of that happened. They honestly felt like they should just be able to keep committing terrorist attacks and everyone else should put up with it.

Every time some muslim screams about how "great" his god is, and kills a bunch of people, they issue the same boilerplate BS about "He's not a muslim - just his family is", or "he's a guy with social issues", etc, etc.

But every time that someone attacks them it's "EVERY CANADIAN WAS IN ON THIS!"

Blahblahblah. 

Edited December 6, 2023 by WestCanMan

[robosmith]

1 hour ago, Legato said:

and the evidence from Hamas is credible?

That strike killed 500 people and 550 were children.

I haven't seen ANY evidence from Hamas. You?

[Nationalist]

4 hours ago, robosmith said:

And Israelis elected Netanyahu. So what? Almost ALL Israelis served in the military, and are subject to RECALL.

So they are ALL combatants, too. Duh

Even the women, but not the children.

^Intellectual bankruptcy. According to YOUR "logic," genocide can never be done because it's impossible to wipe every member of an ethnic group. Ridiculous.

Ridiculous? That's what the word means. You can and do stretch the meaning of the word but, that doesn't make it right. Say it with me...

GENOCIDE. 

The Israelis did indeed elect Netanyahu. And Hamas gave him all the excuses he needs to take Gaza back absolutely. Because...ya...you know...Hamas attacked Israel. Not the other way around.

You have never been able to nail the words "right" and "wrong" down, have you. You have a binary level of reason. Perspective means nothing to you. It makes discussions with you so...juvenile.

[Rebound]

3 hours ago, Hodad said:

I'm not sure I follow. There are rules that govern warfare. While there's no referee, the countries that operate outside of the rules, those who are seen to transgress the norms of conflict, do face consequences in the global community.

All true. But not really relevant to what is happening today or the actions Israel is taking today. Everybody--including terrorist groups--rationalize the murder of civilians based on past grievances. Everyone knows that the Jewish people have a long history of being mistreated. However, that knowledge doesn't do much to change the feeling when we now see them mistreating another powerless group. Nobody cares if Israel fights Hamas. More power to them. But many thousands of dead non-combatants is a problem. 

Well, I know that the terrible Hamas attack triggered this round of reprisals. But you can bet the Palestinians do not feel like they "started it." To them, the "start" was long ago. They very much feel like this is an act of defiance in a decades-long state of oppression. And it's a point not without some merit. Does that make Hamas right? Nope. They were wrong. But Palestinians are inarguably in a shitty situation and have been for ages.

At any rate, the "who started it" conversation is really beside the point. It doesn't really matter who started it. The historical finger-pointing is not what people are concerned about. The world was horrified when 1,300 Israeli civilians were murdered. The world is increasingly horrified that the response to that is murder thousands of Palestinian non-combatants. It's not even an eye for an eye. It's ten eyes for an eye.  It doesn't feel like justice anymore. It feels like a solution. It feels like a pointlessly bloody escalation. 

Let me reiterate: Israel needs allies. It needs support from the United States, among others. And one of the absolute best ways to undermine and eventually lose that support is by becoming--in a shocking and public way-- the brutal oppressors that the Palestinian's have been telling the world about. If the hegemonic state looks like a villain, today's terrorists start to look like tomorrow's freedom fighters. 
 

No, you misunderstand war.  
See, you think wars only happen between armies. Wars happen between nations. There is a government or governing entity that wages war against another.  And the entity that dragged the people of Gaza into war is Hamas. Hamas could end this war TOMMOROW: Here are the hostages, and we surrender. All done!!!  
 

You have a fantasy in your head that Hamas members wear great big green Hamas hats and live in great big Hamas houses, and how come Israel doesn’t just attack THAT. It’s because they cannot. It’s impossible. You also think the Gazans are all civilians and the Israelis are all soldiers.  The Israelis are drafted.  They don’t want to do this, their wives, husbands, children and mothers want them home.  These Israelis are fighting Hamas in the streets and taking casualties.  But the only number you’re hearing is Palestinian dead. You don’t even know how many Israeli soldiers have died so far. Why is that? 

[Hodad]

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

 

Blahblahblah. 

Indeed. That's an apt summary for a post that completely misses the point.