Female Boxer Refuses to Fight Trans Opponent in Canadian Championship Match

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, Aristides said:

Very strange but I always thought chess people were different. I'd like to hear the logic behind this.  There is nothing athletic about chess..

Right - but I think my point is about coverage.   

Our coverage is based on our interests.  If our interests are skewed then the coverage is.  Things are only as important as people are interested in them...

[Aristides]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

Right - but I think my point is about coverage.   

Our coverage is based on our interests.  If our interests are skewed then the coverage is.  Things are only as important as people are interested in them...

It is far more basic than that. In both cases fairness is the issue. There are some sports like equestrian where men and women can compete on an equal basis.

[Michael Hardner]

6 minutes ago, Aristides said:

It is far more basic than that. In both cases fairness is the issue. There are some sports like equestrian where men and women can compete on an equal basis.

That's less basic.  Why do people care about fairness in one case vs the other ?  It's not because they're rational.

[Aristides]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

That's less basic.  Why do people care about fairness in one case vs the other ?  It's not because they're rational.

I think they do care about both.

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, Aristides said:

I think they do care about both.

Not to the same degree.  Why didn't the Chess story get any coverage ?  I searched on this forum and Jessica Yaniv vs the Chess story is referenced 30 to 1.

[Aristides]

The first I heard about the chess thing is you bringing it up and i think it is bizarre to exclude trans players and would like to hear their reasoning. 

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

Not to the same degree.  Why didn't the Chess story get any coverage ?  I searched on this forum and Jessica Yaniv vs the Chess story is referenced 30 to 1.

How much coverage does chess get in general?

[Army Guy]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Right but we're not a 'Women's Boxing" forum so I don't get why we are discussing it... especially in the 'Federal Politics' subforum...

Thats a cope out, there are a large chunk of topics on this forum that are not political, and yet you have posted comments on them....If your not interested in the topic then take a knee and pass on it...instead you decided you post on it, describing your disinterest in the topic...Sounds like you are interested or why the effort...

The fact that the federal government has policies and laws on this very topic i would think those would make it political.

[NAME REMOVED]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Somewhat, yes ?  But if people wanted Parliament to protest Danica Patrick not being allowed to compete in NASCAR because of a weight advantage I would say "really ?"  Do we need to talk about this ?
 

This is completely different, and you know it.  Biologically born females competing in men's sports is OK, since they have no advantage in doing so. In fact, females are at a disadvantage when competing with men in any sport. I think people can all agree that biologically born makes have an advantage over women in sports.

[Michael Hardner]

13 minutes ago, Aristides said:

1. The first I heard about the chess thing is you bringing it up and i think it is bizarre to exclude trans players

2. ... and would like to hear their reasoning. 

3. How much coverage does chess get in general?

1. Again... I only care about the discussion aspect.  I first heard about it just now myself as I was googling about trans athletes.  We only get a portion of the news and it's not because of censorship.  It's because angertainment sells.

2. And to satisfy those who think I only care because it goes 'one way' ... I also don't care that they're banned from (checks notes) gendered international chess matches (?)  But you could also note the absolute lack of discussion over fairness.

3.  I don't know.  I do know that I although I have heard of international chess competition I did not know there was a Quebec amateur Golden Gloves association for women...

[Michael Hardner]

5 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

1. This is completely different, and you know it.  Biologically born females competing in men's sports is OK, since they have no advantage in doing so.

2. In fact, females are at a disadvantage when competing with men in any sport. I think people can all agree that biologically born makes have an advantage over women in sports.

1. Uh... no.  The Patrick example was real, if anecdotal, and related to her biological advantage for being lighter ie. less mass.  And the chess example is... well i don't know why.  Presumably women are stupider than men according to the oversexed chess geniuses of the world I expect.

2. You can Google that and find it to be not true... 

[Aristides]

3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Again... I only care about the discussion aspect.  I first heard about it just now myself as I was googling about trans athletes.  We only get a portion of the news and it's not because of censorship.  It's because angertainment sells.

2. And to satisfy those who think I only care because it goes 'one way' ... I also don't care that they're banned from (checks notes) gendered international chess matches (?)  But you could also note the absolute lack of discussion over fairness.

3.  I don't know.  I do know that I although I have heard of international chess competition I did not know there was a Quebec amateur Golden Gloves association for women...

Except it isn't just boxing, we are seeing it in many sports.

[NAME REMOVED]

7 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Uh... no.  The Patrick example was real, if anecdotal, and related to her biological advantage for being lighter ie. less mass.  And the chess example is... well i don't know why.  Presumably women are stupider than men according to the oversexed chess geniuses of the world I expect.

2. You can Google that and find it to be not true... 

 

I cannot believe you are bringing up auto racing and Tara Patrick as an example of why biological males should be allowed in women's ports.  Just incredible. 

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by DUI_Offender

[Aristides]

When do women's sports stop being women's sports.

 

https://tnc.news/2023/08/15/trans-powerlifter-world-record/

[Michael Hardner]

4 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Except it isn't just boxing, we are seeing it in many sports.

And we only care for some sports and not others.  That's a bigger lesson to me than the battle-of-the-hour is.

3 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

 

I cannot believe you are bringing up Tara Patrick as an example of why biological males should be allowed in women's ports.  Just incredible. 

Where did I say that biological males should be allowed in women's sports...

Those of you who understand why I'm on this: this is what I'm up against.  

[Michael Hardner]

also it's Danica Patrick  VVV

[NAME REMOVED]

Oops I was thinking of the porn star Tera Patrick.

 

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by DUI_Offender

[OftenWrong]

6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

There are bigger things to deal with but some people are just obsessed with trans issues I guess.

And those "people" are the federal government. 

Even now in my line of work, when we receive an email or new government directive, it seems there must now be a section titled "Gender Equity" in these. Even though the rest of the information is entirely non-gender related, technical and regulatory material. This newly added paragraph is out of place but quite obviously part of this federal government's obsession with gender identity values.

[Michael Hardner]

12 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

Oops I was thinking of the porn star Tera Patrick.

Same thing basically... I've watched Danica perform but not Tera....

1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

1. And those "people" are the federal government. 

2. Even now in my line of work, when we receive an email or new government directive, it seems there must now be a section titled "Gender Equity" in these. 

1.  Well all corporations are inasmuch as they follow neoliberal CSR trends but ok...

2. We're too focused on gender and not enough on class I agree there...

[NAME REMOVED]

4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Same thing basically... I've watched Danica perform but not Tera....

 

You should check her acting out. She is my all-time favourite adult actress. Very talented.

[TreeBeard]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Trans women banned from Chess

I saw this.  It seemed silly.  Non-contact sports and sports where biological sex has no bearing should be inclusive of everyone.  That seems obvious, no?
 

Can we agree that boxing, rugby, hockey, MMA have more consequences to the health of the participants than chess?  And that biological sex probably has an impact on fairness of these sports as well as things like weightlifting and shot put ? 

[TreeBeard]

54 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

The Patrick example was real

Auto racing doesn’t restrict biological sex, and never has as far as I know.  So how is it relevant?

Edited November 17, 2023 by TreeBeard

[CdnFox]

4 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

I saw this.  It seemed silly.  Non-contact sports and sports where biological sex has no bearing should be inclusive of everyone.  That seems obvious, no?
 

Can we agree that boxing, rugby, hockey, MMA have more consequences to the health of the participants than chess?  And that biological sex probably has an impact on fairness of these sports as well as things like weightlifting and shot put ? 

IF there is a reason to have male and female divisions in a sport, and presumably the people participating in the sports should know - then it should be kept to biological sex.

If there's no reason then don't have male and female divisions, it's just kind of weird.

But - if there is a division then keep it based on biology.

[Michael Hardner]

11 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Auto racing doesn’t restrict biological sex, and never has as far as I know.  So how is it relevant?

I don't know, there was some discussion about biological advantage...

But again I'm not interested in this tangent

 

[Aristides]

13 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Auto racing doesn’t restrict biological sex, and never has as far as I know.  So how is it relevant?

Patrick actually won an Indi race and took pole at the Indy 500. She also led the Daytona 500 at one point. She was a serious racer regardless of the flack she got from the macho crowd. 

Three day event is the toughest and most dangerous of the international equestrian events. Since the world championships started in 1966, nine of the fifteen champions have been women, including Zara Phillips, Princess Anne's daughter. So men and women can compete on equal terms in some sports.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Aristides

[OftenWrong]

12 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

We're too focused on gender and not enough on class I agree there...

My comment was that the federal government is now including a review and statement on gender equity impacts when they publish a new directive or regulation.

In the past this section mainly discussed the impact of a new directive on indigenous peoples. Now they have added the transgender section.

Seems to me the whole topic of gender equity, by that meaning primarily TRANSGENDER equity, not women's equity, is being pushed on the public by the federal liberals. Complete with funding for companies who play along.

Such as the "values test" the government demanded for employers to be eligible for summer student wage subsidy.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4732603/canada-summer-jobs-attestation-change/amp/