Pro Hamas LGBYQers

[reason10]

 

 

Pretty much says it all.

Edited November 8, 2023 by reason10

[reason10]

"
"From the river to the sea" simply means all Jews will be exterminated.

Seig Heil.

[Michael Hardner]

Yes that's an odious term but this is a discussion board not a board for goofy videos.

Of course LGBTQ people can care about devout Muslims, Jews, and Christians - especially the innocent ones who bear the violence of war.  I guess that's confusing to people who only see enemies and allies in the world.

It's possible to empathize with people who are intolerant to you, but I can't teach such matters of the heart.  I can only point it out, it's up to you to accept it.

[ironstone]

I think that most of the LGTBQ etc etc group are just woefully uninformed about most things. It's like they have no clue what would happen to them in every Middle East country(except Israel) if they simply walked down any street.

 

[Michael Hardner]

10 minutes ago, ironstone said:

It's like they have no clue what would happen to them in every Middle East country(except Israel) if they simply walked down any street.

 

So you think they shouldn't support Palestine because Muslims don't tolerate LGBTQ?

[ironstone]

23 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

So you think they shouldn't support Palestine because Muslims don't tolerate LGBTQ?

Whether they should or shouldn't is entirely up to them. It just seems bizarre that so many of them seem clueless about how the Islamic world feels about the LGTBQ gang and their agenda.

Would they change their minds if they knew the facts? Maybe.

 

[Deluge]

59 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Yes that's an odious term but this is a discussion board not a board for goofy videos.

Of course LGBTQ people can care about devout Muslims, Jews, and Christians - especially the innocent ones who bear the violence of war.  I guess that's confusing to people who only see enemies and allies in the world.

It's possible to empathize with people who are intolerant to you, but I can't teach such matters of the heart.  I can only point it out, it's up to you to accept it.

Oh, I'm sure there are people who legitimately empathize with the Palestinian innocents, but you ain't gonna find that in the public protests or on this forum. lol 

[Rebound]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

So you think they shouldn't support Palestine because Muslims don't tolerate LGBTQ?

They should have a hell of a lot more common sense, yes. It is an absolutely lunatic position.

It is absurd for LGBT people to support the "freedom" of people who would murder them because they are LGBT. They are either badly misinformed about Palestinian culture and laws, or they are very foolish. 

"LGBT for Palestine" is no different than "Jews for Hitler" or "Chickens for KFC."

Citations:

Hamas Commander, Accused of Theft and Gay Sex, Is Killed by His Own

Palestinian Authority Bans Activities by Gay Rights Group

Israel, on the other hand, was the first nation in all of Asia to recognize same-sex marriages. Same-sex couples are allowed to adopt, making Israel more progressive than the USA. Discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation was prohibited in 1992 and LGBT people are allowed to serve openly in the military. Thus, the two million Palestinians who live within Israel have more LGBT freedoms than Arabs anywhere else in the Middle East.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Rebound

[Michael Hardner]

41 minutes ago, ironstone said:

Whether they should or shouldn't is entirely up to them. It just seems bizarre that so many of them seem clueless about how the Islamic world feels about the LGTBQ gang and their agenda.

Would they change their minds if they knew the facts? Maybe.

 

Why do you think they don't know this ?

3 minutes ago, Rebound said:

They should have a hell of a lot more common sense, yes. It is an absolutely lunatic position.

It is absurd for LGBT people to support the "freedom" of people who would murder them because they are LGBT.  

 

Why ?

 

[Rebound]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

Why do you think they don't know this ?

Why ?

 

This has nothing to do with Islam versus any other religion. Specifically, the Palestinian governments legally prohibit homosexuality and culturally, homosexuals are murdered in Palestinian society. So if these well-intentioned LGBT people want to fly their rainbow asses to the West Bank and fly their rainbow flags in Palestinian liberation parades, they'll wind up in prison. 

BUT, they could fly their rainbow asses to Tel Aviv and participate right alongside Palestinian Arabs in the annual gay pride festival every year. 

So, two societies, and this tiny percentage of the LGBT community says, "We should destroy the government that protects gay rights and promote the one which murders homosexuals," and my point is, that is really really stupid. The issue here, Michael, is that the Palestinians have been an extremely intolerant, bigoted society forever, which is why they continually refuse peace negotiations and choose terrorism. They are intolerant of Jews and gays, while Israel openly and legally integrates both equally into their society. If you cannot see that difference, you are literally blind.

[ironstone]

5 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Why do you think they don't know this ?

Perhaps I'm wrong but it's just the impression I get when I see how the LGTQ people react when they are confronted with the facts about how their kind are treated in the Middle East. Again, the exception being Israel.

In the video I posted above, the people being interviewed genuinely seemed to be shocked when they were made aware of the Muslim stance on their lifestyle. How insular is their world that they couldn't be aware of this?

[Deluge]

1 hour ago, ironstone said:

I think that most of the LGTBQ etc etc group are just woefully uninformed about most things. It's like they have no clue what would happen to them in every Middle East country(except Israel) if they simply walked down any street.

 

Well, that's why natural selection is still a thing. 

[Michael Hardner]

16 minutes ago, Rebound said:

1. Specifically, the Palestinian governments legally prohibit homosexuality and culturally, homosexuals are murdered in Palestinian society.  

2.  that is really really stupid.

3. The issue here, Michael, is that the Palestinians have been an extremely intolerant, bigoted society forever

4. If you cannot see that difference, you are literally blind.

1. 3. Ok but can't you still believe in emancipation for a people and peace while disagreeing with their morality ?  A lot of them want our societies destroyed too.  Should we just support bombing them ?
2. Only if you think that people should wish harm on those who disagree with them I guess.
4. Why do you think I can't see that or LGBTQ people can't ?

It's like you can't keep it in your head that folks can empathize.  I wonder why.  

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

It's possible to empathize with people who are intolerant to you, but I can't teach such matters of the heart.  I can only point it out, it's up to you to accept it.

It's not just that they're 1) supporting people who murder gays and 2) oppress women.

They're showing 3) tolerance of terrorist attacks, 4) the use of women and children as martyrs, 5) indifference to religious bigotry, 6) indifference to tortured, raped and murdered Jews, and 7) choosing for Israel to suffer all this again. 

Their stupidity and hypocrisy is multi-faceted. Your understanding is simple-minded. The answer isn't always "Just let them be religious bigots, we're better than them."

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

So you think they shouldn't support Palestine because Muslims don't tolerate LGBTQ?

Should they support Nazis?

If Israel was in Germany fighting the Nazis in WWII, would the LGBTQ stance make sense? 

[Rebound]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. 3. Ok but can't you still believe in emancipation for a people and peace while disagreeing with their morality ?  A lot of them want our societies destroyed too.  Should we just support bombing them ?
2. Only if you think that people should wish harm on those who disagree with them I guess.
4. Why do you think I can't see that or LGBTQ people can't ?

It's like you can't keep it in your head that folks can empathize.  I wonder why.  

Because when they run around with their stupid Palestinian LGBT flags the day after Hamas slaughtered 2,000 civilians, chanting “Initfada revolution is the only real solution,” then it’s clear they are supporters of a terrorist solution, not a peaceful solution. 
 

A peaceful two state solution is the only practical endgame.  Screaming about “intifada” isn’t going to accomplish that.  Supporting Hamas isn’t going to accomplish that. Punching Jews who memorialize the kidnapped Israelis isn’t going to accomplish that.  

[Michael Hardner]

8 minutes ago, Rebound said:

1. Because when they run around with their stupid Palestinian LGBT flags the day after Hamas slaughtered 2,000 civilians, chanting “Initfada revolution is the only real solution,” then it’s clear they are supporters of a terrorist solution, not a peaceful solution. 

2. A peaceful two state solution is the only practical endgame.  Screaming about “intifada” isn’t going to accomplish that.  Supporting Hamas isn’t going to accomplish that. Punching Jews who memorialize the kidnapped Israelis isn’t going to accomplish that.  

1. 2. Right - but how is that complaint specific to LGBTQ people as the subject of this thread ?  That goes for anyone who supports violence tacitly or otherwise.

 

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Yes that's an odious term but this is a discussion board not a board for goofy videos.

Of course LGBTQ people can care about devout Muslims, Jews, and Christians - especially the innocent ones who bear the violence of war.  I guess that's confusing to people who only see enemies and allies in the world.

It's possible to empathize with people who are intolerant to you, but I can't teach such matters of the heart.  I can only point it out, it's up to you to accept it.

Empathy is irrelevant.

when i was younger, our beloved black lab managed to get bit by a skunk and got rabies.

I loved the dog. I empathized with the dog  - it was not the dog's choice, the dog didn't know what was happening, the dog didn't want to be sick.

But we coudln't cure the dog. And as much as we loved it we shot it. Because it was a danger to everyone around it and there really wasn't a choice.

Hamas is rabid and the civillians who supported and aided them are not much better.  You don't see demostrations demanding hamas surrender to stop the fighting, or that they release the hostages to arrange a cease fire, or that they stop hiding behind civillians

Empathize all you want.  But pass the ammo.  Until the threat is ended there's only one rational response,

[Michael Hardner]

48 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Should they support Nazis?

If Israel was in Germany fighting the Nazis in WWII, would the LGBTQ stance make sense? 

They could support the German people if they wanted to - such as showing empathy for the civilians who died in Dresden.  Nobody would say "Why are they supporting Germans when Germany wanted to kill them ?"

This is my point and I'm sticking to it: "Of course LGBTQ people can care about devout Muslims, Jews, and Christians - especially the innocent ones who bear the violence of war.  I guess that's confusing to people who only see enemies and allies in the world." 

They can also support emancipation for a people denied their country even if that country oppresses them.They can also protest that very country's policies against LGBTQ.  It's inconsistent only if you think that countries whose policies you don't support shouldn't be allowed to exist.  We have seen where that goes, and it doesn't work any more than suppression of religion does.

[CdnFox]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

They could support the German people if they wanted to - such as showing empathy for the civilians who died in Dresden.  Nobody would say "Why are they supporting Germans when Germany wanted to kill them ?"

they would literally be saying that.

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, CdnFox said:

1. Empathy is irrelevant.

2. when i was younger, our beloved black lab managed to get bit by a skunk and got rabies.

3. I loved the dog. I empathized with the dog  - it was not the dog's choice, the dog didn't know what was happening, the dog didn't want to be sick. But we coudln't cure the dog. And as much as we loved it we shot it. Because it was a danger to everyone around it and there really wasn't a choice.

4. Hamas is rabid and the civillians who supported and aided them are not much better. 

5. You don't see demostrations demanding hamas surrender to stop the fighting, or that they release the hostages to arrange a cease fire, or that they stop hiding behind civillians

6. Empathize all you want.  But pass the ammo.  Until the threat is ended there's only one rational response,

1. No more than emotions are.  People are emotional, and in my experience populist types even more so.
2. Let me guess how this ends... it's an NDP skunk right ?
3. This is Old Yeller you're plagiarizing but ok.
4. If you follow this principle then you end up somewhere that says targeting civilians is ok.  Which was the initial crime.
5. There are lots of pro-Israel protests, I don't understand.
6. Ok... you like war just like Hamas does and Likud... which is how we got here.

What does any of this have to do with LGBTQ people then ?  As I have posted in this thread, I understand your point but it applies to all who support Hamas etc.

5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

they would literally be saying that.

Well... I would empathize with said Germans, Japanese, Guantanamo Bay prisoners and so on.

If you don't then you don't.  But don't try to tell me there's logic at play there - it's values.  And ours are different.

[CdnFox]

4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. No more than emotions are.  People are emotional, and in my experience populist types even more so.

 

That's also an irrelevant postion.  So you didn't have a good response so you tried to distract? Empathy IS an emotion btw - so what you're saying is that emotions are as irrelevant as emotions.  Well...  thanks for contributing i guess.

Quote

2. Let me guess how this ends... it's an NDP skunk right ?

Sure - why not. Making fun of a very difficult experience and demonstrating a complete lack of empathy is obviously the appropriate response to a discussion where you're claiming we should have empathy.

I take it yet again you cant' address the point so you're just lashing out.

 

Quote

3. This is Old Yeller you're plagiarizing but ok.

You don't think that happens all the time on the prairies?  Oh but you saw it in a movie once so it doesnt' matter.

Hey - i saw rambo so i guess the civillian deaths in gaza don't matter and i shouldn't have empathy

Quote

4. If you follow this principle then you end up somewhere that says targeting civilians is ok.  Which was the initial crime

You don't at all.  Not even remotely close.

.

Quote

5. There are lots of pro-Israel protests, I don't understand.

Nobody said pro isreali.

 

Quote

6. Ok... you like war just like Hamas does and Likud... which is how we got here.

Ahhh yes- once again no argument so attack the person and try to distract.
 

Very much your usual response Mike. Dishonesty - distraction - personal attacks (which will be followed by complaints that i attack you back) - and complete hypocrisy.

You're not a very good person mike. You should think about your response and what it says about you.  You didn't even make a point, you just lashed out like a fool.

[Michael Hardner]

4 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

1. That's also an irrelevant postion.  So you didn't have a good response so you tried to distract?  s for contributing i guess.

2. Sure - why not. Making fun of a very difficult experience and demonstrating a complete lack of empathy is obviously the appropriate response to a discussion where you're claiming we should have empathy.

3. I take it yet again you cant' address the point so you're just lashing out.

4. You should think about your response and what it says about you.   

1. Distract how ?  Did I not respond to a point that was already there ?  Obviously the war in Israel is an emotional issue and people are reacting as such.  Empathy and hate are emotional responses.
2. Well, I'm sorry... when I wrote that I hadn't read ahead so i didn't know how it was going to end.  It was immature of me to respond on that.
3 The point is that LGBTQ people, like any people, can empathize despite the politics.  Jews and Israelis THEMSELVES are empathizing with the Palestianians - is that wrong ?  Makes even less sense than LGBTQ people right ?
4. You're right I shouldn't have made fun of your pet.  I sincerely apologize on that.

See #3 for my point, though.  I don't see why LGBTQ should be criticized for being empathetic here.

[Rebound]

56 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Distract how ?  Did I not respond to a point that was already there ?  Obviously the war in Israel is an emotional issue and people are reacting as such.  Empathy and hate are emotional responses.
2. Well, I'm sorry... when I wrote that I hadn't read ahead so i didn't know how it was going to end.  It was immature of me to respond on that.
3 The point is that LGBTQ people, like any people, can empathize despite the politics.  Jews and Israelis THEMSELVES are empathizing with the Palestianians - is that wrong ?  Makes even less sense than LGBTQ people right ?
4. You're right I shouldn't have made fun of your pet.  I sincerely apologize on that.

See #3 for my point, though.  I don't see why LGBTQ should be criticized for being empathetic here.

Everybody empathizes with the poor Palestinian civilians, and the poor Afghanis, Syrians, Ethiopians, Nigerians, Sudanese… shall I continue? The list is humongous.  
 

The State of Israel was created in 1948. LOTS of new countries were created at the time.  The Palestinians were apparently the only ones who just couldn’t get their act together to move into the modern world and create a modern, peaceful nation. 
 

Today, literally today, Anthony Blinken is trying to negotiate with Arab countries to place their troops inside Palestine to act as peace keepers until a stable and peaceful Palestinian government can establish itself. Let me tell you up-front: None of these Arab nations are dumb enough to do it. Cause they know their soldiers will be attacked in shootings and bombings. 
 

We made peace between Israel and Egypt, and Israel and Jordan, and England and Ireland, and Yugoslavia, but brother, the Palestinians and Afghanis do not want peace.  More specifically, they just won’t go for a modern democratic nation. Some violent gang of ultranationalists will inevitably take over by violence. 
 

It must be Israel’s fault, right? It has to be! Just like it’s Israel’s fault that Iran is run by a dictatorship, and Syria is in shreds and Iraq and Libya were run by dictators and Egypt had the same leader for forty years and on and on and on.  Just blame the Jews!!  While we’re at it… it’s the Jews fault that Palestinians hijacked a cruise ship and shoved a wheelchair-bound Jew into the ocean. And it’s the Jew’s fault that Palestinians attacked the Olympic Village in Munich and murdered the Israeli athletes.  It’s the Jews fault that a Palestinian assassinated Bobby Kennedy.  Right? Those evil Jews! Forcing the Palestinians to do these things!   
 

I do not support the Netanyahu policies 1%.  The West Bank lands do not belong to Israel or to Israeli settlers.  But heaven only knows what will transform the Palestinians into a peaceful people.  
 

Yes, I hope that Israel gets rid of Netanyahu, and that a 20 year roadmap for peace is created. It will take that long. I do feel sorry for the innocent Palestinian civilians but not to the point of blaming RFK and other victims of Palestinian violence, just as I don’t blame England for IRA bombings. 

[Michael Hardner]

14 minutes ago, Rebound said:

Everybody empathizes with the poor Palestinian civilians, and the poor Afghanis, Syrians, Ethiopians, Nigerians, Sudanese… shall I continue? The list is humongous.  
 

The State of Israel was created in 1948. LOTS of new countries were created at the time.  The Palestinians were apparently the only ones who just couldn’t get their act together to move into the modern world and create a modern, peaceful nation. 
 

Today, literally today, Anthony Blinken is trying to negotiate with Arab countries to place their troops inside Palestine to act as peace keepers until a stable and peaceful Palestinian government can establish itself. Let me tell you up-front: None of these Arab nations are dumb enough to do it. Cause they know their soldiers will be attacked in shootings and bombings. 
 

We made peace between Israel and Egypt, and Israel and Jordan, and England and Ireland, and Yugoslavia, but brother, the Palestinians and Afghanis do not want peace.  More specifically, they just won’t go for a modern democratic nation. Some violent gang of ultranationalists will inevitably take over by violence. 
 

It must be Israel’s fault, right? It has to be! Just like it’s Israel’s fault that Iran is run by a dictatorship, and Syria is in shreds and Iraq and Libya were run by dictators and Egypt had the same leader for forty years and on and on and on.  Just blame the Jews!!  While we’re at it… it’s the Jews fault that Palestinians hijacked a cruise ship and shoved a wheelchair-bound Jew into the ocean. And it’s the Jew’s fault that Palestinians attacked the Olympic Village in Munich and murdered the Israeli athletes.  It’s the Jews fault that a Palestinian assassinated Bobby Kennedy.  Right? Those evil Jews! Forcing the Palestinians to do these things!   
 

I do not support the Netanyahu policies 1%.  The West Bank lands do not belong to Israel or to Israeli settlers.  But heaven only knows what will transform the Palestinians into a peaceful people.  
 

Yes, I hope that Israel gets rid of Netanyahu, and that a 20 year roadmap for peace is created. It will take that long. I do feel sorry for the innocent Palestinian civilians but not to the point of blaming RFK and other victims of Palestinian violence, just as I don’t blame England for IRA bombings. 

You're arguing about something else besides what the thread is about.