Should Hamas support rallies in Canada be stopped?

OftenWrong · October 25, 2023

7 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I am not fond of Arabs or Muslim men myself for historic and feminist reasons but completely reject expressions or actions of hate against any person or group based on race or religion or skin color. This is totally unCanadian way of life

Agreed and that is one thing we could say, it is a Canadian value to reject racism.

But Canada is a small country and the rest of the world is very large, and mostly very bad. Canada is unique. Perhaps the most progressive country in the world, by that I mean modern and liberal, in a good way. It has been. But by bringing in people from countries where they have feuds going on for centuries (as with Sikhs), we accept them bringing their cultural violence into our land. We invite them to continue the fight here. And when there are problems back in their home lands, they bring us problems here.

That is not to say everybody from the ME is a radical, but in the past we carefully screened out people who had these sorts of views. What we're doing now is irresponsible on so many levels. The violence in urban areas has gone up substantially. News articles show 15% increase in violent crime in Toronto in 2022. That is probably a low estimate. Car thefts are now rampant and these are done by gangs who are overwhelmingly men from the ME.

eyeball · October 25, 2023

5 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I've been in Canada where I was taught not to hate by race, religion or slin colour. I never thought I'd see the days we're in now, anti-semitism openly displayed in the streets, Jews afraid for their safety and a PM who spreads lies that encourage it.

But here we are. ?‍♂️

I never would have believed Canada preferred to allow Nazi refugees to settle here as opposed to Jewish refugees. I certainly don't recall being taught that in school. I'm pretty sure this ugly history shares some responsibility for the ugly present.

I was never taught anything about how Canada treated First Nations either. Do you think someone in the government was ashamed of something perhaps?

blackbird · October 25, 2023

Not only did Canada turn away 900 Jewish refugees on the motor vessel St Louis in 1939, but the head of the Immigration Department for Canada was an anti Semite who refused to allow Jewish refugees to enter Canada in that period. After the war it was easier for former Nazis to immigrate to Canada than for Jews.

Edited October 25, 2023 by blackbird

CdnFox · October 25, 2023

1 hour ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Of course they don't care. They are terrorists. It is expected of them not to care about civilians, murder them or use them as shield for their own miserable lives. To them those sacrificed for their twisted evil cause will go to heaven and are doing them a service in their idi*tic minds. This is their mindset. But Israel is a femocracy which stands for Western values.

In my recent trip to Greece I befriended with a Russian girl. As we were discussing politics we talked about World war. I told her that Russian men are women haters because when they captured Berlin they assaulted and raped many Gutman women. and in their defense she said similar to Germán soldiers when they captured Russian cities they raped Russian girls, My response was that yes that was expected because they were Nazis, What do you expect from Nazis. But Russians with their actions proved they are as bad as Nazis.

And the palestinians elected and support them.
So what you're saying is we should think of the palestinians as the same as the nazi's. Remind me what we did to the german population in ww2?

SpankyMcFarland · October 25, 2023

15 hours ago, I am Groot said:

What's new is, as Douglas Murray has said, the Israelis are the only people not allowed to win wars. If they had crushed the Palestinians years ago, or even pushed them off the land they wouldn't have faced this kind of attack.

For now at least, Israel wants to remain a privileged member of the Western club and not one of the barely tolerated Middle Eastern ruffians that have to use the tradesman’s entrance.

Edited October 25, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

SpankyMcFarland · October 25, 2023

9 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

But Canada is a small country and the rest of the world is very large, and mostly very bad.

Canada is a huge country with a small population.

OftenWrong · October 25, 2023

19 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Canada is a huge country with a small population.

Canada is small in many ways. You know what I mean.

I am Groot · October 25, 2023

45 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

For now at least, Israel wants to remain a privileged member of the Western club and not one of the barely tolerated Middle Eastern ruffians that have to use the tradesman’s entrance.

The Taliban got a meeting in the White House with the president. Every American president grovels at the feet of the Saudis and Gulf states. The Turkish butcher Erdogan has their total respect.

What are these 'privileges' of which you speak?

CITIZEN_2015 · October 25, 2023

10 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Agreed and that is one thing we could say, it is a Canadian value to reject racism.

But Canada is a small country and the rest of the world is very large, and mostly very bad. Canada is unique. Perhaps the most progressive country in the world, by that I mean modern and liberal, in a good way. It has been. But by bringing in people from countries where they have feuds going on for centuries (as with Sikhs), we accept them bringing their cultural violence into our land. We invite them to continue the fight here. And when there are problems back in their home lands, they bring us problems here.

That is not to say everybody from the ME is a radical, but in the past we carefully screened out people who had these sorts of views. What we're doing now is irresponsible on so many levels. The violence in urban areas has gone up substantially. News articles show 15% increase in violent crime in Toronto in 2022. That is probably a low estimate. Car thefts are now rampant and these are done by gangs who are overwhelmingly men from the ME.

I agree we need much harsher screening and be a lot more selective on who we admit in. Extremists both religious and political should be kept out. Argus was suggesting that we ban totally from ME but issues are not limited to ME only but Africa, India, even Europe (fascists and communisis).

CITIZEN_2015 · October 25, 2023

9 hours ago, CdnFox said:

And the palestinians elected and support them.
So what you're saying is we should think of the palestinians as the same as the nazi's. Remind me what we did to the german population in ww2?

No we should regard Hamas as Nazis not Palestinians. They are caught between.

We help German people to rebuild their country, Americans in particular. After destroying Hamas we should do the same to Gaza.

SpankyMcFarland · October 25, 2023

27 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Canada is small in many ways. You know what I mean.

I do. It was an outburst of semantics on my part to dispute it. I struggle with how to express the problem succinctly myself. In my job, Canada was a very small country

19 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

The Taliban got a meeting in the White House with the president. Every American president grovels at the feet of the Saudis and Gulf states. The Turkish butcher Erdogan has their total respect.

What are these 'privileges' of which you speak?

You don’t think MBS has the same influence in Washington that Netanyahu has?

Edited October 25, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

I am Groot · October 25, 2023

13 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I do. It was an outburst of semantics on my part to dispute it. I struggle with how to express the problem succinctly myself. In my job, Canada was a very small country

You don’t think MBS has the same influence in Washington that Netanyahu has?

I think influence with America depends on what you can do for them. And in Israel's case Jewish votes. I think both Israel and the Saudis have more influence with them than we do at the moment.

Edited October 25, 2023 by I am Groot

CdnFox · October 25, 2023

2 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

No we should regard Hamas as Nazis not Palestinians. They are caught between.

They are not caught between. They elected them. they continue to support them.

This is the thing you entirely miss and it renders all your other arguments pointless. It would not be ethical to deliberately target the civillian population but they deserve NO mercy if they're in between the isrealis and the military of Gaza.

That is the price you pay for your gov'ts actions. So if you don't like that - don't live under that gov't. Change govts or leave.

If they get killed or injured or suffer in the isreali push to disarm and defang gaza then that's what they had coming.

2 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

We help German people to rebuild their country,

After we destroyed them utterly and killed hundreds of thousands of their civillians in horrible firestorms and bombings.

And look - they haven't tried to attack us at all since. See how that works ?

In this case - bomb them and attack on the ground until they completely surrender unconditionally and then we can look at what to do. Either way they'll get help but then a decision will have to be made about whether there will be a gaza or not.

impartialobserver · October 25, 2023

This conflicts reminds me of kids fighting and both claiming that the other started it.. There has to come a time when one side or the other stops caring about "who started it" or past grievances. That is a lot to ask, I know.

Edited October 25, 2023 by impartialobserver

CdnFox · October 25, 2023

35 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

This conflicts me of kids fighting and both claiming that the other started it.. There has to come a time when one side or the other stops caring about "who started it" or past grievances. That is a lot to ask, I know.

No, that time never 'needs' to come. Which is the very problem. They can go on forever shouting '1948: or "nazi oppression" and it never ends

What needs to happen is one side or the other needs to be completely crushed. There needs to be a victory, and a loser.

Then the victors can take the steps necessary to end it.

In ww2 there was a victor and a loser. How many times since have wee been bombed by the japanese? That's how these things work.

impartialobserver · October 25, 2023

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

No, that time never 'needs' to come. Which is the very problem. They can go on forever shouting '1948: or "nazi oppression" and it never ends

What needs to happen is one side or the other needs to be completely crushed. There needs to be a victory, and a loser.

Then the victors can take the steps necessary to end it.

In ww2 there was a victor and a loser. How many times since have wee been bombed by the japanese? That's how these things work.

Except that there are not two sides in this; israel vs. palestine. Both have allies that feel the need to get involved. that being said.. they could coexist peacefully simply choose not to. Most western nations would not be ok with Israel being defeated. Likewise.. the muslim world would not be ok with Palestine being defeated/destroyed.

CdnFox · October 25, 2023

12 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

Except that there are not two sides in this; israel vs. palestine. Both have allies that feel the need to get involved.

Every war is like that. Which war ever wasn't like that?

The answer is still the same.

Quote

that being said.. they could coexist peacefully simply choose not to.

And never will. You MIGHT talk isreal into it over time but Gaza has made it crystal clear that 'never' would be the correct answer.

So one side or the other has to lose permanently. Or there is never peace

Quote

Most western nations would not be ok with Israel being defeated. Likewise.. the muslim world would not be ok with Palestine being defeated/destroyed.

Sadly for the muslms - we've got the guns and firepower and they do not.

It was strongly to their advantage to find a path to peace, which was entirely possible, but decisions have been made. The kindest thing that can be done is crush them hard, right now, and permanently. Then turn on everyone who sticks their nose in.

Those muslim countries won't be getting any spare tanks from russia nay time soon - now is the time to force the issue and end things definitively. Si vis paceum, para bellum.

SpankyMcFarland · October 25, 2023

Religion is good if it’s a private thing but when it takes over the public sphere, watch out.

CITIZEN_2015 · October 25, 2023

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

They are not caught between. They elected them. they continue to support them.

This is the thing you entirely miss and it renders all your other arguments pointless.

No this is the thing YOU entirely miss. Elections in middle eastern countries means nothing. They elected themselves by fraudulent election, manipulating results, screening out candidates. I tell you how President was elected in Fu*king Islamic republic. 500 candidates. they screened out all except 6 all loyal to regime. Only one party to elect. Only 30 percent of population took part in election. They declared 48% participated. Then even for that 6 remaining, they cheated and declare the most loyal one who is also known as the butcher of Tehran the winner. Did the nation of Iran elected this son of the bit*ch who is known for mass executions thirty years ago? I don't think so. I do not believe Hamas was elected freely. Islamic culture is dictatorship and brutal. Look how it was spread 1400 years ago. By sword and brutal force.

And please download a spelling check. You have so much errors in your posts it is getting on my nerves. It is civilians not civilluans. It is Israel not Isreal.......

Edited October 25, 2023 by CITIZEN_2015

CdnFox · October 25, 2023

44 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

No this is the thing YOU entirely miss.

No, i don't. The population is respnosible. I've got 5 thousand years of history to back up my point of view - you've got "Muh feels".

It's the way it is. Period. the people have to deal with their gov't or accept them. Or leave. But they WILL be held to account.

That is the way it works and that's the way it's always going to work. So pretending otherwise is childish. Deal with the reality we face, not the imaginary world you wish it would be.

There is no hamas without that population so if what you're saying is there's no way for that population to not have hamas, then something permanent needs to be done about that population. Scatter them to the winds if necessary.

But they WILL be held responsible. Period. It's happening right this second.

OftenWrong · October 25, 2023

4 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I struggle with how to express the problem succinctly myself. In my job, Canada was a very small country

You poor man. You have my full emotional support...

CITIZEN_2015 · October 25, 2023

Hamas fighters trained by Islamic Republic.

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/hamas-fighters-trained-in-iran-before-oct-7-attacks-e2a8dbb9

CUT THE HEAD OF OCTOPUS NOT JUST ONE OF ITS LEGS

CdnFox · October 25, 2023

30 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Hamas fighters trained by Islamic Republic.

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/hamas-fighters-trained-in-iran-before-oct-7-attacks-e2a8dbb9

CUT THE HEAD OF OCTOPUS NOT JUST ONE OF ITS LEGS

The head of the octopus is the public who support it and allow it to thrive. Without them there are no such groups. You sure you want to take that position?

CdnFox · October 25, 2023

taxme · October 25, 2023

17 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Agreed and that is one thing we could say, it is a Canadian value to reject racism.

But Canada is a small country and the rest of the world is very large, and mostly very bad. Canada is unique. Perhaps the most progressive country in the world, by that I mean modern and liberal, in a good way. It has been. But by bringing in people from countries where they have feuds going on for centuries (as with Sikhs), we accept them bringing their cultural violence into our land. We invite them to continue the fight here. And when there are problems back in their home lands, they bring us problems here.

That is not to say everybody from the ME is a radical, but in the past we carefully screened out people who had these sorts of views. What we're doing now is irresponsible on so many levels. The violence in urban areas has gone up substantially. News articles show 15% increase in violent crime in Toronto in 2022. That is probably a low estimate. Car thefts are now rampant and these are done by gangs who are overwhelmingly men from the ME.

Multiculturalism and diversity. Isn't it just wonderful. It brings people together. Bullshit. LOL.