Medical assistance in dying is no solution

[Zeitgeist]

16 minutes ago, Aristides said:

No you can't, when you judge an action you judge the person who committed it.

 

Not true at all.  “Judge not lest you be judged.”  “He who hasn’t sinned cast the first stone.”

Sins are sins.  You can judge behaviour, but people can’t judge people, as we can’t ascertain the totality of a person.  That’s beyond the scope of people and left to God.  We do make judgments about what people deserve for practical purposes only: getting a job, going to prison, etc.

Are you so morally lost that you think all actions are of equal value? Mass murder and nurturing a baby have equal status in your eyes?  That is the nihilistic perspective in a sense.  When there’s no inherent meaning or purpose in the universe, no moral code, no commandments to follow, then essentially there is no discernment of actions apart from what you happen to like or feel.  I’ve seen this in your comments from the beginning.  

Edited October 2, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[blackbird]

14 hours ago, Aristides said:

but you have no right to impose those beliefs on others.

Do you not believe in any kind of moral authority?  What is the basis of your morality or do you have any?  If you don't have any moral basis what are you doing promoting something which is a moral matter?

[Aristides]

30 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Not true at all.  “Judge not lest you be judged.”  “He who hasn’t sinned cast the first stone.”

Sins are sins.  You can judge behaviour, but people can’t judge people, as we can’t ascertain the totality of a person.  That’s beyond the scope of people and left to God.  We do make judgments about what people deserve for practical purposes only: getting a job, going to prison, etc.

Are you so morally lost that you think all actions are of equal value? Mass murder and nurturing a baby have equal status in your eyes?  That is the nihilistic perspective in a sense.  When there’s no inherent meaning or purpose in the universe, no moral code, no commandments to follow, then essentially there is no discernment of actions apart from what you happen to like or feel.  I’ve seen this in your comments from the beginning.  

It's only a sin in your head, stay out of other people's heads.

Your moral code has no more validity than someone else's code, particularly when their actions affect no one but themselves.

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

It's only a sin in your head, stay out of other people's heads.

Your moral code has no more validity than someone else's code, particularly when their actions affect no one but themselves.

Sorry, but you are incorrect.   MAID effects others, many others.  The whole idea of MAID destroys the value of human life.  That affects health care in this country and demeans the value of human life.  This also effects relationships between humans in society and everything.  It effects how people look on each other.  It sends a message that your life is not really that valuable.  MAID also promotes the idea that the state has the right to decide who should live and who should die.  That is the same as Communist or Fascist governments.

Edited October 2, 2023 by blackbird

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

I should have bought a bloody lottery ticket...

You should have been taught to think for yourself.  But - here we are.

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

It's only a sin in your head, stay out of other people's heads.

Your moral code has no more validity than someone else's code, particularly when their actions affect no one but themselves.

You’re a relativist that doesn’t believe that any act is wrong unless someone thinks it is for them.  If the mass murderer doesn’t think murder is wrong, then it isn’t according to your philosophy. Not anything goes.  If you want to destroy yourself, don’t get others involved.  

Edited October 2, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[Boges]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

MAID also promotes the idea that the state has the right to decide who should live and who should die.  That is the same as Communist or Fascist governments.

This would only be valid if MAID is mandatory. 

If someone will eventually die from a disease like Cancer or ALS, and would prefer not to endure the pain and suffering the death from such a disease would entail, who are you to say that shouldn't be allowed? 

[SpankyMcFarland]

Medical assistance in dying is a blessed relief for some. Canada is not going back on this. The main question is where to draw the line. 

[blackbird]

4 minutes ago, Boges said:

This would only be valid if MAID is mandatory. 

If someone will eventually die from a disease like Cancer or ALS, and would prefer not to endure the pain and suffering the death from such a disease would entail, who are you to say that shouldn't be allowed? 

You are new on this topic.  I have already posted the link to an article that shows the MAID protocols are not being followed in all cases and innocent people are being put to death.  Many infirm, elderly, handicapped, and ill people do not think rationally and are pressured into this.  This is criminal and Fascist.  Much like Naziism.

Secondly your claim of pain and suffering may be grossly exaggerated.  Most people are able to be treated by the many pain medications they have these days.  The system is just not doing its job properly and the government is using MAID to save millions of dollars by taking the easy way out.

Edited October 2, 2023 by blackbird

[Boges]

1 minute ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Medical assistance in dying is a blessed relief for some. Canada is not going back on this. The main question is where to draw the line. 

I guess it becomes problematic when it's seen as condoning suicide. 

Ultimately MAID is a substitute for suicide, but in cases where the death is going to happen, it's seen as a mercy. 

Killing someone because they're unhappy with their financial or social fortunes is not something out government should dabble in. 

[Boges]

6 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You are new on this topic.  I have already posted the link to an article that shows the MAID protocols are not being followed in all cases and innocent people are being put to death.  Many infirm, elderly, handicapped, and ill people do not think rationally and are pressured into this.  This is criminal and Fascist.  Much like Naziism.

Then this should be corrected. But the idea of MAID is sound, saving people from the pain they might otherwise experience from an inevitable painful death. 

But to your OP, how much money should we devote to End-of-Life treatment, because it already accounts for a gigantic amount of our Healthcare costs. 

https://www.cdhowe.org/media-release/canadas-sky-high-costs-end-life-care-need-solutions

I'm not opposed to funding going to more palliative care. But you should concede it's a socialist venture. 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Boges

[Aristides]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

You are new on this topic.  I have already posted the link to an article that shows the MAID protocols are not being followed in all cases and innocent people are being put to death.  Many infirm, elderly, handicapped, and ill people do not think rationally and are pressured into this.  This is criminal and Fascist.  Much like Naziism.

Secondly your claim of pain and suffering may be grossly exaggerated.  Most people are able to be treated by the many pain medications they have these days.  The system is just not doing its job properly and the government is using MAID to save millions of dollars by taking the easy way out.

ALS isn't about pain.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/amyotrophic-lateral-sclerosis/symptoms-causes/syc-20354022

If pain levels reach a point where only a continuous application of opioids can control it, what kind of quality of life is that? People shouldn't  have to suffer just because it might offend your sensibilities. 

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

I'm not opposed to funding going to more palliative care. But you should concede it's a socialist venture. 

You might change your mind when it comes time to retire and you depend on a government pension and health care.  I would be happy with paying monthly premiums for health care, but the system and our taxes and wages were never set up for a private system in the past 50 years.   Whether it's private or public, we still need health care and most people over 55 require health care of some sort sooner or later.  Surely you don't want everyone live a much shorter life span?  I am not sure I would call essential public services "Socialism". 

I think the public health care system is failing.  So how can you oppose more funding for palliative care.  That sounds kind of narcistic.  We have a duty to take care of the elderly, not kill them off.

The Nazi  MAID system is killing at least ten thousand people a year in Canada, many of whom probably never knew what was happening.

3 minutes ago, Aristides said:

People shouldn't  have to suffer just because it might offend your sensibilities. 

What you don't accept is the fact only God decides when life ends.  You don't get to play God.  If you do you are acting on behalf of Satan and will pay the price unless you repent and believe the gospel.

Edited October 2, 2023 by blackbird

[Boges]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

Whether it's private or public, we still need health care and most people over 55 require health care of some sort sooner or later.  Surely you don't want everyone live a much sorter life span?  I am not sure I would call essential public services "Socialism". 

Why? Some would call the idea of Universal Healthcare Socialism. That would include all sorts of healthcare. Again I'm not opposed to is, but it's the bulk of the costs we shoulder as a society related to healthcare costs. 

 

Quote

However all this has nothing to do with the Nazi  MAID system which is killing at least ten thousand people a year in Canada, many of whom probably never knew what was happening.

This is a particularly pathetic use of Godwin's Law. 

You say "many" provide some stats before you accuse the service as Nazi. I've already highlighted the intent of the program. If people are being euthanized without their consent, that's murder. 

[Aristides]

7 minutes ago, blackbird said:

 

What you don't accept is the fact only God decides when life ends.  You don't get to play God.  If you do you are acting on behalf of Satan and will pay the price unless you repent and believe the gospel.

Yet you want capital punishment to be reinstated. You want to play god by setting the rules for others and using your god as an excuse.

[blackbird]

2 minutes ago, Boges said:

You say "many" provide some stats before you accuse the service as Nazi.

Any system that deliberately kills citizens is Nazi.  You can't try to cloak it any terms you wish, but that doesn't hide the truth.  It is killing humans, some who probably did not willingly choose to die, but were deceived, persuaded by someone else or simply made bad choices.   It is a form of genocide.  Changing the law to make it legal does not change the fact of what it is doing.  The Nazis made laws too but committed genocide against two thirds of Europe's Jews.

Just now, Aristides said:

Yet you want capital punishment to be reinstated. You want to play god by setting the rules for others and using your god as an excuse.

You have no moral compass.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, blackbird said:

What you don't accept is the fact only God decides when life ends.  You don't get to play God.  If you do you are acting on behalf of Satan and will pay the price unless you repent and believe the gospel.

What you don't seem to realize is that no-one is going to force you to avail yourself of MAID.  So you and your God should be fine.

Your God has nothing whatsoever to do with what anyone else chooses, of course.

[Aristides]

Just now, blackbird said:

 

You have no moral compass.

My moral compass is fine. I don't try to impose my morality on others by using a god as an excuse.

[blackbird]

3 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

What you don't seem to realize is that no-one is going to force you to avail yourself of MAID.  So you and your God should be fine.

Your God has nothing whatsoever to do with what anyone else chooses, of course.

God created the universe and created you and you are accountable for everything you do.  You can say whatever you want, but that is a fact.  God is omnipotent over all creation.  You don't get to be your own god.  Everyone was created by God, God owns us, and everyone will be held accountable.

Edited October 2, 2023 by blackbird

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, blackbird said:

God created the universe and created you and you are accountable for everything you do.  You say what you want, but that is a fact.  God is omnipotent over all creation.  You don't get to be your own god. Everyone was created by God, God owns us, and everyone will be held accountable.

No he didn't.

No it isn't.

No he isn't.

Yes I do.

No they weren't.

No he doesn't.

No they won't.

You can pray for my eternal soul if you want.  I don't mind

Edited October 2, 2023 by bcsapper

[CdnFox]

8 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

What you don't seem to realize is that no-one is going to force you to avail yourself of MAID. 

But they do. Coersion is force - courts have ruled on that forever.

And as you've noted - you support that.  Not a problem according to you - you don't think it SHOULD happen but you know it does and it's no big deal.

Hypocrisy is a way of life for the left..

[Guest]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

But they do. Coersion is force - courts have ruled on that forever.

And as you've noted - you support that.  Not a problem according to you - you don't think it SHOULD happen but you know it does and it's no big deal.

Hypocrisy is a way of life for the left..

Well, let me know when blackbird gets nailed and I'll stop laughing at you.

[blackbird]

34 minutes ago, Boges said:

Why? Some would call the idea of Universal Healthcare Socialism

It may be Socialism, but the fact remains the government outlawed private health care.  Therefore the government has a duty to provide health care.  They have taken on that responsibility but are failing to provide adequate care for everyone.  The system is run by politicians who are under pressure to fund everything under the sun, even drugs for drug addicts.

So politicians with no moral compass support MAID.  The fact is it eliminates ten thousand or more people a year, who require medical and palliative care and saves the government millions of dollars, could be a factor in their thinking.  Everyone has their hand out for government funding.

Edited October 2, 2023 by blackbird

[Boges]

Just now, blackbird said:

It may be Socialism, but the fact remains the government outlawed private health care.  Therefore the government has a duty to provide health care.  They have taken on that responsibility but are failing to provide adequate care for everyone.  The system is run by politicians who are under pressure to fund everything under the sun, even drugs for drug addicts.

Be real though, regardless of how good the palliative care is, doesn't negate the fact that some people are destined for a painful and prolonged death. Why shouldn't we spare them the suffering? We do it for animals.

What type of life is being sedated until you finally succumb to an illness. 

The same could be said for dementia, if someone has no memory of the life they once lived, how valuable really is the life they have?  

[blackbird]

10 minutes ago, Boges said:

Be real though, regardless of how good the palliative care is, doesn't negate the fact that some people are destined for a painful and prolonged death.

There is no proof that these people are "destined for a painful and prolonged death".   Just look at BC Sapper on here.  He argues and demands he has the right, but there is no evidence he is destined for a painful and prolonged death.

The health care system has many drugs to eliminate the pain of people.  There is not proof that the ten thousand people a year who received MAID were destined for a painful and prolonged death.  In the absence of proof that must be dismissed as false.  People were living out their lives normally when MAID was started.  The only reason it was brought in was because of people like BC Sapper who demand to have "right to choose" MAID even though there is no proof of any painful prolonged suffering.  It was brought in because of pressures from groups and individuals who demanded the so-called right to "die with dignity" which is a false propaganda claim.  These are powerful liberal political groups that manipulated government.

Edited October 2, 2023 by blackbird