Trump found guilty of fraud in civil case.

West · October 5, 2023

17 hours ago, CdnFox said:

They basically pull the number out of their ass.

They look at the average sale prices in the area for things that are similar and wing it. They do NOT attempt to determine market value for any individual place. They just say "well looks like 2500 sq foot homes that are 20 years old in your area go for xxxx dollars so - we'll say yours is about that much.

THey will not take into account you got a new roof this year. They won't care about the heat pump you just put in or the granite counter tops.

So no. At no time will they look at the market value of the home in any way. They will do a ballpark estimate for all homes of that type and size etc in the area.

How are you not getting this? God DAMN it you're stupid. You can call up bc assessment tomorrow and ask them, do your estimates reflect actual market values even before deductions? ANd they'll say "Not really'.

Exactly.

It's like the baseball that Aaron Judge broke the AL home run record with. Worth about 10 bucks at the store for a baseball but the value shot up to millions because it was the ball used to break the record.

The fact Maralogo has hosted several celebrities/high profile individuals adds value and means they can sell it for more.

This judge is wrong and the fact he took a value estimate at 18 million or whatever shows he lacks the common sense or judgement to be presiding over this case.

robosmith · October 5, 2023

Trump Loses Battle in His Long War on Reality

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Almost two decades ago, during the second year of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney’s misbegotten war in Iraq, there was a media hubbub when an unidentified White House aide told a writer for the New York Times Magazine that the Bush-Cheney gang could create its own reality. Deriding what he called the reality-based community, this administration official said, We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors…and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.

This person seemed to suggest that truth—actual facts—did not matter to the powerful. They could be negated by might and force of will. Leaders of strength could dictate reality and impose what years later would be called alternative facts. This much-commented-upon remark was widely read as a sign of the immense arrogance and hubris of the Bush-Cheney crowd: We control how the world is perceived.

This episode came to mind as I read the ruling issued this week by New York Judge Arthur Engoron, who pronounced that Donald Trump had committed fraud for years by massively overvaluing his properties and assets and who ordered several of Trump’s businesses removed from Trump’s control. This was a major blow to Trump’s corporate and real estate empire. It was also a stunning defeat for Trump in his decades-long war on reality.

Like the Bush-Cheney aide, Trump for most of his life has acted as if the truth means nothing and he can concoct his own convenient reality. He has done this through deception, bullshit, subterfuge, and never-ending image spinning. That is, through unrelenting fraud.

And when a Federal Judge bursts the bubble of "alternative facts," it's like a soap bubble going POOF and it disappears.

To everyone, except perhaps, the MAGA CULT.

Believing in fantasies is as real as the value of Bitcoin.

IOW, as valuable as Trump's SCHTICK. But only to those who BUY INTO the fantasy.

Edited October 5, 2023 by robosmith

taxme · October 6, 2023

On 10/5/2023 at 12:28 PM, robosmith said:

Do you believe ALL of Trump's bullshit? LMAO

It's all of your leftist liberal bullshit that irks me. Screw off. ?

taxme · October 6, 2023

On 10/5/2023 at 12:36 PM, Aristides said:

So if a liberal is convicted by a Trump appointed judge, is that conviction automatically bullshit?

Not if the conviction ended up finding Trump guilty. But, in this case once again, just more bullshit coming from the leftist buffoons and their appointed leftist judge. Eat it, baby. Lol.

robosmith · October 6, 2023

29 minutes ago, taxme said:

It's all of your leftist liberal bullshit that irks me. Screw off. ?

So that's a yes. ?

Caswell Thomas · October 6, 2023

Adding some new info here seems timely: in Court today Jeff McConney, Controller of the Trump Organizations financial empire from 1987 to February 2023 testified today that both Donald J. Trump and his elder son Eric both knew that that the valuations of their properties were greatly over valued, and specifically said the in the case of the Seven Springs resort that both Donald J. Trump and Eric told him multiple times to include the 7 mansions valued at $23 million each that were part of that resort to claim a " full valuation" of over $400 million dollars" that Trump claimed as its value in order to obtain bank.loans against its value...... per Donald Trump's own statements to the Judge, " everybody in real estate does that". Well, Mr. McConney testified today that that resort could not have had anywhere near that value because....the 7 mansions which were supposed to be built in 2013 to back up that valuation, WERE NEVER BUILT at all. Yet, in 2022 Eric Trump told McConney to continue such valuation of that resort at the same amount as in 2013. So...with this bombshell, one can only wonder what else was valued on " thin air" lies of his estates and resorts and companies ... of the man who claims he was worth " millions and millions". Also in Court today Trump was instructed by the Court to hand over a complete list of all properties he owns, properties he has beneficiary control of, AND must tell the Court Appointed Reviewer The Honorable Barbara S. Jones if he starts any new companies, etc. or alters any ones he has now. The Trump Organizations true value is being revealed and it's a sinking ship....

taxme · October 6, 2023

8 minutes ago, Caswell Thomas said:

Adding some new info here seems timely: in Court today Jeff McConney, Controller of the Trump Organizations financial empire from 1987 to February 2023 testified today that both Donald J. Trump and his elder son Eric both knew that that the valuations of their properties were greatly over valued, and specifically said the in the case of the Seven Springs resort that both Donald J. Trump and Eric told him multiple times to include the 7 mansions valued at $23 million each that were part of that resort to claim a " full valuation" of over $400 million dollars" that Trump claimed as its value in order to obtain bank.loans against its value...... per Donald Trump's own statements to the Judge, " everybody in real estate does that". Well, Mr. McConney testified today that that resort could not have had anywhere near that value because....the 7 mansions which were supposed to be built in 2013 to back up that valuation, WERE NEVER BUILT at all. Yet, in 2022 Eric Trump told McConney to continue such valuation of that resort at the same amount as in 2013. So...with this bombshell, one can only wonder what else was valued on " thin air" lies of his estates and resorts and companies ... of the man who claims he was worth " millions and millions". Also in Court today Trump was instructed by the Court to hand over a complete list of all properties he owns, properties he has beneficiary control of, AND must tell the Court Appointed Reviewer The Honorable Barbara S. Jones if he starts any new companies, etc. or alters any ones he has now. The Trump Organizations true value is being revealed and it's a sinking ship....

Everybody who owns property and wants to sell it will always up the value of their property. What? Do you think that anyone selling their property is going to under value the price of their property to try and sell it?

Nothing to see here, folks, other than just more demonrat lies and bullshit. As was said in court already, there was no one defrauded of anything. No one came forward to tell the leftist leaning judge that they were defrauded of anything by Trump. Trump was set up by the demonrats and the DA comrade and the appointed demonrat judge to find Trump guilty no matter what.

Do you honestly believe that all these hundreds of charges and lawsuits ever since Trump decided to run for President are all for real? But no matter what these demonrats try and do, Trump will become the next President of the USA and they know it. So, let's try and put Trump in jail before then. They are all in a panic because they know that Trump will becoming for them. Revenge will be sweet for Trump. ?

Aristides · October 6, 2023

2 hours ago, taxme said:

Not if the conviction ended up finding Trump guilty. But, in this case once again, just more bullshit coming from the leftist buffoons and their appointed leftist judge. Eat it, baby. Lol.

So evidence doesn't matter, the only thing that does is who appointed the judge.

Sad puppy.

taxme · October 6, 2023

5 minutes ago, Aristides said:

So evidence doesn't matter, the only thing that does is who appointed the judge.

Sad puppy.

Do you honestly believe that judges are not appointed to the bench by either political party in power in America or Canada? In Canada, as far as I know, we the people do not get to vote a judge to the bench. It is the political party in power that does that. The judge in the Trump trial case was a political appointed judge by the demoncraps. You are indeed a sad puppy yourself. ?

Aristides · October 6, 2023

So what. I'll ask again, does evidence no longer matter, only who appointed the judge? Apparently so in your case. If Trump appeals before a GOP appointed judge and loses, will you accept that decision? Yes or no.

CdnFox · October 7, 2023

30 minutes ago, taxme said:

Everybody who owns property and wants to sell it will always up the value of their property. What? Do you think that anyone selling their property is going to under value the price of their property to try and sell it?

Nothing to see here, folks, other than just more demonrat lies and bullshit. As was said in court already, there was no one defrauded of anything. No one came forward to tell the leftist leaning judge that they were defrauded of anything by Trump. Trump was set up by the demonrats and the DA comrade and the appointed demonrat judge to find Trump guilty no matter what.

Do you honestly believe that all these hundreds of charges and lawsuits ever since Trump decided to run for President are all for real? But no matter what these demonrats try and do, Trump will become the next President of the USA and they know it. So, let's try and put Trump in jail before then. They are all in a panic because they know that Trump will becoming for them. Revenge will be sweet for Trump. ?

Honestly - it's meaningless.

Any person offering a loan could easily have verified the valuation with their own people. When i get a line of credit secured by a proerty, the bank sends an appraiser of their own.

And the bank isn't complaining, and the loans were repaid as i understand it

At the end of the day a valuation is a valuation. If trump says his place is worth a billion dollars in his opinion then that's perfectly valid - if you disagree have your own valuation done and go with that.

Which does raise the question - As i understand it and i'm not watching this like a hawk or anything, but nobody actually complained or claimed that they personally lost money over this right? The loans were repaid, everyone involved is happy?

So ... why is this even a court case? Everyone involved is happy. Nobody lost anything.

This really does feel like a witch hunt.

Caswell Thomas · October 7, 2023

Terms says " everyone who has real estate property ups the value". Really? Does your insurer know this? As a former ( long ago in my college years) insurance Company Property Inspector it was my job to inspect properties in five counties for just such reasons, even to photographing and measuring property lines versus claimed size and locations, structures found, etc. and I can assure you that today as well as then, insurance companies would not agree with you, and if it were a lot of monetary risk involved, you bet they pursued fraud. The Trump Organization here claimed billions in value... Trump himself claims has worth billions....but maybe not, not if he's been dreaming it all up and lying to everyone about it, ....all that money he made fraudulently will disappear...you don't get to keep money you obtained fraudulently....and we'll all know his true worth then ..even you.

robosmith · October 7, 2023

5 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Honestly - it's meaningless.

Any person offering a loan could easily have verified the valuation with their own people. When i get a line of credit secured by a proerty, the bank sends an appraiser of their own.

And the bank isn't complaining, and the loans were repaid as i understand it

At the end of the day a valuation is a valuation. If trump says his place is worth a billion dollars in his opinion then that's perfectly valid - if you disagree have your own valuation done and go with that.

Which does raise the question - As i understand it and i'm not watching this like a hawk or anything, but nobody actually complained or claimed that they personally lost money over this right? The loans were repaid, everyone involved is happy?

So ... why is this even a court case? Everyone involved is happy. Nobody lost anything.

This really does feel like a witch hunt.

^More clear evidence that you don't understand NY State law but are SO ARROGANT that you believe you know it better than the state AG AND a sitting judge. ?

NY State law says the AG does not have to prove harm done, ONLY that the statements were fraudulent, which is WHY the judge rendered his summary judgement in her favor.

Please stop posting your LEGALLY IGNORANT EXCUSES. Do some research. Duh

What We Know About New York’s Fraud Case Against Donald Trump

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What is the attorney general’s special authority?

A state law that dates to 1956 gives the attorney general’s office expansive authority to investigate and punish corporations. It demands a lower burden of proof than other fraud cases. Crucially, prosecutors do not have to prove that the defendant intended to act fraudulently — or that they hurt anyone financially in the process.

CdnFox · October 7, 2023

5 minutes ago, robosmith said:

^More clear evidence that you don't understand NY State law but are SO ARROGANT that you believe you know it better than the state AG AND a sitting judge. ?

NY State law says the AG does not have to prove harm done, ONLY that the statements were fraudulent, which is WHY the judge rendered his summary judgement in her favor.

Please stop posting your LEGALLY IGNORANT EXCUSES. Do some research. Duh

What We Know About New York’s Fraud Case Against Donald Trump

I'm smarter than the average state judge . Which, sadly, is nothing to brag about at all

However - i didn't ask if the prosecution was lawful - i asked why is it happening? IF there's no victim and nobody is claming that anyone lied to them or that they feel misled, why are the doing this?

As i said - feels like a witch hunt.

But of course - with your poor english skills you missed that, Sigh. are there no courses in English you could take or something? I'm kind of getting sick of explaining it to you for free ?

robosmith · October 7, 2023

10 hours ago, CdnFox said:

I'm smarter than the average state judge . Which, sadly, is nothing to brag about at all

No you're NOT. You're so dumb, you believe your ^own self serving declaration means something.

Just like Trump does, whom you adore and emulate. ?

10 hours ago, CdnFox said:

However - i didn't ask if the prosecution was lawful - i asked why is it happening? IF there's no victim and nobody is claming that anyone lied to them or that they feel misled, why are the doing this?

FRAUD is against the LAW. Duh

Failure to enforce the law, sets a really bad precedent, as we've seen in Trump's case.

He has gotten away with fraud for so long, and it so emboldened him, that he thought he could get away with an insurrection. Now he's learning that the LAW means something HERE.

10 hours ago, CdnFox said:

As i said - feels like a witch hunt.

No one in the court cares about your feelings.

10 hours ago, CdnFox said:

But of course - with your poor english skills you missed that, Sigh. are there no courses in English you could take or something? I'm kind of getting sick of explaining it to you for free ?

I'm getting tired of explaining why your EXCUSES for Trump's FRAUD are BULLSHIT.

CdnFox · October 7, 2023

3 minutes ago, robosmith said:

No you're NOT.

Sure i am - you just BELIEVE i'm not and as you mentioned your beliefs are worth nothing

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Failure to enforce the law, sets a really bad precedent, as we've seen in Trump's case.

No it doesn't. Nobody even complained. So what that means is that they went digging and looking and searching for something they might be able to charge him with. Witch hunt.

Quote

He has gotten away with fraud for so long, and it so emboldened him, that he thought he could get away with an insurrection. Now he's learning that the LAW means something HERE.

Easily one of the stupidest things you've said. And it was up against some pretty stiff competition

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No one in the court cares about your feelings.

Sure they do - i'm delightful!

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I'm getting tired of explaining why your EXCUSES for Trump's FRAUD are BULLSHIT.

You've never explained it once, ever. All you do is flail your hands about and crybaby and offer your beliefs on the matter.

And your beliefs are worth nothing.

taxme · October 8, 2023

On 10/7/2023 at 9:59 AM, robosmith said:

No you're NOT. You're so dumb, you believe your ^own self serving declaration means something.

Just like Trump does, whom you adore and emulate. ?

FRAUD is against the LAW. Duh

Failure to enforce the law, sets a really bad precedent, as we've seen in Trump's case.

He has gotten away with fraud for so long, and it so emboldened him, that he thought he could get away with an insurrection. Now he's learning that the LAW means something HERE.

No one in the court cares about your feelings.

I'm getting tired of explaining why your EXCUSES for Trump's FRAUD are BULLSHIT.

What are you going to do when Trump becomes the next President of America, lefty? Cry yourself a river? Lol. The leftist AG and the leftist appointed judge are a prime example of what is going on in America today. They call it communism. ?

taxme · October 8, 2023

On 10/7/2023 at 9:59 AM, robosmith said:

No you're NOT. You're so dumb, you believe your ^own self serving declaration means something.

Just like Trump does, whom you adore and emulate. ?

FRAUD is against the LAW. Duh

Failure to enforce the law, sets a really bad precedent, as we've seen in Trump's case.

He has gotten away with fraud for so long, and it so emboldened him, that he thought he could get away with an insurrection. Now he's learning that the LAW means something HERE.

No one in the court cares about your feelings.

I'm getting tired of explaining why your EXCUSES for Trump's FRAUD are BULLSHIT.

There was no insurrection on Jan. 6th. That was all just a made up lie and bullshit by the demonrats.

What BLM and Antifa having been doing for years were acts of insurrection and terrorism, lefty. No one involved in the so-called insurrection on Jan. 6th ever looted, rioted and burned down buildings. But the other two mentioned above certainly did. Why do you keep showing your stupid leftism here?