Private healthcare - France

[August1991]

17 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

That is not accurate.  where did you see that court ruling.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaoulli_v_Quebec_(AG)

Posted above in the thread.

[Michael Hardner]

8 hours ago, August1991 said:

Disagree strongly. There is no cultural difference.

How could someone who is so familiar with the cultures say there's no difference between Canada and France?

[myata]

It's not about efficiency or even common sense, far from that already. The Holy Public Healthcare is an ideological cow, something to hold on to against all odds and no matter what. The first one (and the other, universal goodness, the beavertale). Apathetic, complacent populace swallows mock pillow fights around it happily and so the party can go on forever, no scratch right to the third world hard stop.

[CdnFox]

6 hours ago, August1991 said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaoulli_v_Quebec_(AG)

Posted above in the thread.

ummmmm.... so that actually has nothing to do with the federal act I mentioned. 

From your source;

was a decision by the Supreme Court of Canada of which the Court ruled that the Quebec Health Insurance Act and the Hospital Insurance Act prohibiting private medical insurance in the face of long wait times, up to 9 months, violated the Quebec Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms.

That has NOTHING to do with the  CANADA HEALTH ACT - which is what i mentioned and which is what you claimed was not in force in Quebec.

I'm afraid you've mistaken provincial health acts for the federal one. I absolutely guarantee the Canada health act is in force in Quebec ,

[Nationalist]

IMO the problems with Canuck HC are many. I would say shortage of Doctors, mistreatment of nurses and a grossly over-bloated bureaucracy are the prime offenders.

[Michael Hardner]

30 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

IMO the problems with Canuck HC are many. I would say shortage of Doctors, mistreatment of nurses and a grossly over-bloated bureaucracy are the prime offenders.

Which comes down to:

1) Management of Public Resources

Which comes down to:

1) The Public having low-to-zero expectations of "the" system

If we started a public group, non-aligned to any party, to look at "the" system irrespective of political goals and solely focused on patients and taxpayers then we could discuss such things.  If the public group had many members it could even have influence.

Right now all "public" groups have either alterior motives or no public recognition.

CIHI - Canadian Institute for Health Information - is a major resource for information and I would say 99% of Canadians haven't heard of it.

[Nationalist]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

Which comes down to:

1) Management of Public Resources

Which comes down to:

1) The Public having low-to-zero expectations of "the" system

If we started a public group, non-aligned to any party, to look at "the" system irrespective of political goals and solely focused on patients and taxpayers then we could discuss such things.  If the public group had many members it could even have influence.

Right now all "public" groups have either alterior motives or no public recognition.

CIHI - Canadian Institute for Health Information - is a major resource for information and I would say 99% of Canadians haven't heard of it.

Another institution? Oh goodie. What's that costing all of us?

[CdnFox]

13 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Another institution? Oh goodie. What's that costing all of us?

Well they've already got your arm and your leg.... i'm REALLY hoping the next one is an ear or a nose, i don't like the other alternatives...

[Michael Hardner]

28 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Another institution? Oh goodie. What's that costing all of us?

Well you never heard of it so ....

Operating budget is ~ $130M and if you want to make healthcare into a service created through rational decisions it's a must.  Otherwise we can just scream "Private Private !" and fund everything to the nth degree.

To make change, you first need information so I would keep these folks.

Good for your skepticism though - cheers to it.

[Aristides]

9 hours ago, August1991 said:

Quebec? One could say the same of the Ontario government. The people of Ontario get special treatment.

===

We are a federal State.

How is Ontario treated differently under the law? Ontario signed the same constitution as the other eight provinces.

Quebec gets 7 billion more in federal transfers in spite of having less than 60% of the population. $3149 per capita vs $1575. That goes a long way toward supporting its social programs. Manitoba and the Maritime provinces get more per capita, Ontario, Alberta, BC, Saskatchewan and NFLD all get about the same as each other.

[Nationalist]

38 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Well you never heard of it so ....

Operating budget is ~ $130M and if you want to make healthcare into a service created through rational decisions it's a must.  Otherwise we can just scream "Private Private !" and fund everything to the nth degree.

To make change, you first need information so I would keep these folks.

Good for your skepticism though - cheers to it.

I never said "Private Private" now play honestly.

That's $130M wasted. 1 Michael making decisions in a room produces ok results. 3 Michaels in a room make perhaps better decisions and better results. 100 Michaels in a room make mud.

Our bureaucracies are WAY to big and they produce...mud.

[RedDog]

Nobody on this planet is going to take advice from France. Good Lord.

[CdnFox]

14 minutes ago, RedDog said:

Nobody on this planet is going to take advice from France. Good Lord.

Not even the french.

[August1991]

On 9/13/2023 at 6:47 AM, Michael Hardner said:

How could someone who is so familiar with the cultures say there's no difference between Canada and France?

We Canadians - from Newfoundland to Alberta - live in different provinces.

Some of our provincial governments are Catholic. Imagine. 

[August1991]

On 9/13/2023 at 2:28 AM, CdnFox said:

That is not accurate.  where did you see that court ruling.

https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/2237/index.do

==

In Quebec, I often go to private health clinics - like in Germany, and France.

I reckon that you people elsewhere in Canada don't quite understand the diversity of your country.

Edited September 16, 2023 by August1991

[Aristides]

16 minutes ago, August1991 said:

https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/2237/index.do

==

In Quebec, I often go to private health clinics - like in Germany, and France.

I reckon that you people elsewhere in Canada don't quite understand the diversity of your country.

We understand that Quebec doesn't have to abide by the same rules as the rest of the country.

[August1991]

48 minutes ago, Aristides said:

We understand that Quebec doesn't have to abide by the same rules as the rest of the country.

Nor does the Alberta government.

In Canada, we have a federal system.

===

In Quebec, the government can do what it wants - within its jurisdiction.

Edited September 16, 2023 by August1991

[Aristides]

1 hour ago, August1991 said:

Nor does the Alberta government.

In Canada, we have a federal system.

===

In Quebec, the government can do what it wants - within its jurisdiction.

Alberta signed the same constitution as the other 8 provinces.

[August1991]

3 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Alberta signed the same constitution as the other 8 provinces.

Indeed. Lougheed signed. But the Quebec government did not sign the Trudeau Senior version of our recent federal constitution.

[August1991]

Health care? Medicare? Obamacare?

I reckon the best care is someone in your family.

I want people to get along

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, August1991 said:

https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/2237/index.do

==

In Quebec, I often go to private health clinics - like in Germany, and France.

I reckon that you people elsewhere in Canada don't quite understand the diversity of your country.

That is in regards to the PROVINCIAL regulation.  Not the Canada Health Act.

SO you're being deliberately dishonest

And there are private health clinics in all provinces - but they are limited as to what they can do,

I'd rather you didn't insult my intelligence by lying like that.  As if i was too stupid to know the difference between a province and the federation.   Unless you are of course and didn't realize there was a difference

[August1991]

23 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

...

...you're being deliberately dishonest

And there are private health clinics in all provinces - but they are limited as to what they can do,

....

Quebec has many private health clinics. Cataract and dermatology surgery, for example.

In all provinces? I don't know.

In Quebec, there is no wait time but iit will cost about Cdn$1000 per eye -IOL les.

Edited September 16, 2023 by August1991

[CdnFox]

28 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Quebec has many private health clinics. Cataract and dermatology surgery, for example.

In all provinces? I don't know.

In Quebec, there is no wait time but iit will cost about Cdn$1000 per eye -IOL les.

YOU claimed that quebec was not subject to the federal health act.  And claimed to have legal cases to prove it.  Then you posted something that ONLY relates to the provincial act. So to be blint - your credibility on the topic is a little questionable.

And yes all the other provinces do.  However - it can get really weird - for example if you want a private hip replacement in bc you cannot go to a bc private clinic.  If you live in alberta you can't go to a private alberta clinic. But - if you live in bc you CAN go to a private alberta clinic and i've known several who have done just that.  Apperently it's  not a violation if it's another provinces' person.  But again there's limits. 

As to cataracts -

https://www.boydvision.ca/private-cataract-surgery-bc/

The Canada health act does NOT say there can be no private services, just no private services for what it consideres to be basic universal care.

There's limits in quebec too. ALL of the provinces tend to push those limits. Quebec perhaps gets away with a smidgen more because the feds dont' want to pick the same fights but even there there's limits.

And the notion that we have no private care is simply a lie spun by left wing zealots who have elevated "public care" to a national religion despite the fact that almost every country with pubic health care blends a fair amount of private facilities in with it as well.

[August1991]

11 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

....

 However - it can get really weird - for example if you want a private hip replacement in bc you cannot go to a bc private clinic.  If you live in alberta you can't go to a private alberta clinic. But - if you live in bc you CAN go to a private alberta clinic and i've known several who have done just that.  Apperently it's  not a violation if it's another provinces' person.  But again there's limits. 

As to cataracts -

https://www.boydvision.ca/private-cataract-surgery-bc/

The Canada health act does NOT say there can be no private services, just no private services for what it consideres to be basic universal care.

There's limits in quebec too.

/...

 

True, it is weird.

But in Quebec, i've had no problem for private dermatology and cataracts: the most common boomer surgery.

I don't know about hip surgeries in Quebec

=====

Except for hips and knees, these are low-cost health issues. Heart valves are different.

Most older people have diabetes  or high blood pressure. This can be managed with pharma/

Edited September 16, 2023 by August1991