Canadian Defence News

[BeaverFever]

8 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

The document noted that in the past, military personnel have not been considered a core capability

Have you ever heard such a ridiculous statement?

[Army Guy]

6 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Too little too late. We needed these personnel yesterday and they’re going to phase them in over 15 years????

Meanwhile we will have new ships and new aircraft supposedly coming online in the late 2020s and early 2030s, in many/most cases they will require more crew than what they’re replacing and will be larger fleets also. Plus supposedly we are buying “up to” 12 submarines who is going to man all that stuff?

 

The personnel shortage is arguably the most severe and pressing problem the CAF and they’re slow-rolling it. 

welcome to our world...where nothing in this countries military moves at a quick pace....I often wonder why people on this forum understand what the problems are but somehow politicians and high ranking military folks can't even recognize the problem let alone the solution.

[Army Guy]

This is just one more thing that our Military members cope with....why does Canadians not do or say something...always one excuse after another....from our government , our military, and Canadians...why is it so hard to look after our people...

 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtZjrUTYOhI

 

[BeaverFever]

DND warns availability of Canadian military equipment is dropping

A lack of money and staff as well as aging equipment were the cause of the problems outlined in a new report.

Get the latest from David Pugliese, Ottawa Citizen straight to your inbox 

Published Dec 18, 2024  •  4 minute read

The percentage of navy and army equipment that is supposed to be ready for training and operations has continued to decline, warns a new report from the Department of National Defence.

A lack of money and staff as well as aging equipment were the cause of the problems, according the Departmental Results Report 2023-2024. “There is a risk that DND/CAF may have difficulty maintaining its materiel capabilities at the right level to support operations,” the report, released Dec. 17, pointed out.

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The percentage of key naval fleets that are serviceable to meet training and readiness requirements in support of concurrent operations dropped from 51.2 per cent in 2022-2023 to 45.73 per cent in 2023-2024, according to the report. The target for the navy is this area is supposed to be at least 60 per cent.

For key army fleets that serviceability rate dropped from 56 per cent to 49 per cent during the same time frame. The target for the army in this area is supposed to be at least 80 per cent. Serviceability rates for air force fleets increased slightly but were also far off the target. Those rates went from 43.88 per cent in 2022-2023 to 48.9 per cent in 2023-2024. The target in the air force is supposed to be at least 85 per cent.

The report also lists what DND considered the three key risks associated with not having forces ready. Those include the overall lack of military personnel, the lack of specific skilled staff and the problems with maintenance.

For instance, the report pointed out that during the fiscal year 2023-2024, the Royal Canadian Navy did not meet its serviceability targets due to aging fleets, the introduction of new ships and the lack of sailors. In some cases the problems were the result of issues with new equipment, such as the Arctic and Offshore Patrol Ships, which have had ongoing mechanical problems.

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For the army, the issue was a lack of money as well as “the aging and increasingly obsolete fleets,” the report added.

The Royal Canadian Air Force was dealing with “a limited number of qualified technicians, and the ongoing transition from legacy platforms to new capabilities.”

DND officials did not provide comment by deadline.

The report noted that DND and the Canadian Forces spent $33.5 billion during the fiscal year 2023-2024.

DND did report that it was able to cut $211 million by reducing travel and the hiring of consultants. Additional savings are expected to be found in the coming year in those areas as well, according to the report.

Despite the setbacks, the message from Defence Minister Bill Blair in the report was upbeat. He highlighted the Liberal government’s promises to invest heavily in the Canadian Armed Forces or CAF in the future. “The top priority of the CAF is defending Canada, which also contributes to protecting our shared continent with the United States,” Blair wrote in his introduction to the document. “Canada is reinforcing our commitment to the North American Aerospace Defense Command with an investment of $38.6 billion over 20 years.”

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In April, the Liberal government released its long-awaited defence policy update, promising to increase the military’s annual budget from around $30 billion to almost $50 billion by the end of the decade.

In the policy update, the Liberal government also announced a series of new equipment purchases. The government will buy specialized maritime sensors to improve ocean surveillance as well as build a new satellite ground station in the Arctic. It will also establish additional support facilities in the Arctic for military operations.

The Liberals have also committed to buying new long-range missiles for the Canadian Army.  In addition, they will accelerate the establishment of a new artillery ammunition production capacity in the country.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has also committed to buying new submarines in the future.

The Liberals have been under intense pressure from the U.S. and NATO to spend more on the Canadian Forces. That pressure is expected to increase significantly once Donald Trump becomes U.S. president in January.

The policy update will bring Canadian defence spending up to 1.76 per cent of GDP, which still falls short of a NATO agreement of two per cent of GDP.

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Trudeau has defended the Liberal government track record on defence, noting that when he came to power the previous Conservative government was only spending one per cent of GDP on the military. “We started to invest massively in the Canadian Forces,” Trudeau added.

 

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/dnd-warning-canadian-military-equipment-dropping

Edited December 19, 2024 by BeaverFever

[CdnFox]

Canadian military deployed “gender advisors” to Ukraine, Haiti | True North

Canadian military deployed “gender advisors” to Ukraine, Haiti

I think I may have uncovered a clue as to why the Canadian military isn't getting the respect it deserves

[BeaverFever]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Canadian military deployed “gender advisors” to Ukraine, Haiti

Yep that’s life in the 21st century 

 

The Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) sends troops on missions to countries where people have different views and customs. They may look at gender—being male or female—in a different way than in Canada. These countries face crises that affect men, women, boys and girls in different ways. Crises could include war, violence, hurricanes, and earthquakes, among others.

The CAF uses a tool called Gender-based analysis Plus (GBA+) to consider gender in all stages of operations. These include planning, running operations and evaluating them afterwards.

The CAF uses this tool to judge how policies, programs, services, and practices might affect diverse groups of women and men. The "plus" in the name shows that it looks at other identity factors besides gender. These include age, schooling, language, geography, culture and income.

By considering GBA+ and gender, the CAF:

• Better understands how certain people might be at risk in countries where it has missions; and
• Is better able to reach its mission goals.

 

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/operations/military-operations/conduct/gender-perspectives.html

 

NATO Office of the Gender Advisor

 

From leadership to troops on the ground, integrating the gender perspective and the Women, Peace and Security Agenda in the military is an essential component of NATO’s common values and operational effectiveness.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_101372.htm
 

US DOD Gender Advisors

https://www.defense.gov/Multimedia/Photos/igphoto/2002159478/

 

Edited December 20, 2024 by BeaverFever

[NAME REMOVED]

I've been saying this for nearly 30 years. We have to build up our armed forces. Even back in the mid 90s, I was always of the opinion that in time, our greatest threat was not going to be Russia or any overseas country, It would be by our southern neighbours. And I was right.

Screw the border lies by Trump, we should meet the 2% commitment of our GDP to defence spending. There was a time when Canada had one of the best military in the World, especially in the first half of the 20th century. Pound for pound, Canadians are better fighters than Americans. Why can;t we have a decent military? 

[Army Guy]

On 12/19/2024 at 9:54 PM, BeaverFever said:

Yep that’s life in the 21st century 

 

The Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) sends troops on missions to countries where people have different views and customs. They may look at gender—being male or female—in a different way than in Canada. These countries face crises that affect men, women, boys and girls in different ways. Crises could include war, violence, hurricanes, and earthquakes, among others.

The CAF uses a tool called Gender-based analysis Plus (GBA+) to consider gender in all stages of operations. These include planning, running operations and evaluating them afterwards.

The CAF uses this tool to judge how policies, programs, services, and practices might affect diverse groups of women and men. The "plus" in the name shows that it looks at other identity factors besides gender. These include age, schooling, language, geography, culture and income.

By considering GBA+ and gender, the CAF:

• Better understands how certain people might be at risk in countries where it has missions; and
• Is better able to reach its mission goals.

 

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/operations/military-operations/conduct/gender-perspectives.html

 

NATO Office of the Gender Advisor

 

From leadership to troops on the ground, integrating the gender perspective and the Women, Peace and Security Agenda in the military is an essential component of NATO’s common values and operational effectiveness.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_101372.htm
 

US DOD Gender Advisors

https://www.defense.gov/Multimedia/Photos/igphoto/2002159478/

 

I think that is going to change, or look a lot different than it does today, according to PP....who says he is going to drive the woke out of the military, stopping the DEI process, and recruit warriors to be warriors.

LILLEY: Poilievre promises to end woke culture in military

[Army Guy]

On 12/19/2024 at 9:59 PM, DUI_Offender said:

I've been saying this for nearly 30 years. We have to build up our armed forces. Even back in the mid 90s, I was always of the opinion that in time, our greatest threat was not going to be Russia or any overseas country, It would be by our southern neighbours. And I was right.

Screw the border lies by Trump, we should meet the 2% commitment of our GDP to defence spending. There was a time when Canada had one of the best military in the World, especially in the first half of the 20th century. Pound for pound, Canadians are better fighters than Americans. Why can;t we have a decent military? 

I think it is funny how trump lives in so many liberals heads for free, like he was the anti christ or something....It is our southern neighbor that is enticing us to boast our border security, which was or is pretty slack, it is our southern neighbor who enticed us to look at our artic security, and it will be our southern neighbor that entices us to spend more on OUR own defence...US is getting tired of footing most of the bill for our defense....

Ya screw the border...and see if Trump introduces a 25 % tariff's on all Canadians goods.. see what that costs the average Canadian per year..then tell us all that it is still a good idea...Not sure where your math skills are but i think they lay in your southern regions...

We have the military we have today becasue Canadians want it that way, if they did not they would stand up and voice there opinion and change the government s direction.... want a 2 %  military right your MP and tell him.

Pound for pound the US solider has more resources to call upon than all of NATO put together....it would be pretty arrogant to assume we could compete against that. Todays warriors are not the same breed as they were 10 years ago, it's apples and oranges....DEI programs have weaken the entire warrior structure, other woke programs are driving out warriors and replacing them with a softer gentler member....

The answer to your question why we can't have a decent military....becasue it is not what Canadians want, it offers them nothing they can put in their pockets they see it as taking away money from social programs....PP is going to change all of that....  

[Army Guy]

On 12/19/2024 at 9:54 PM, BeaverFever said:

Yep that’s life in the 21st century 

 

This life becasue thats the only area in which we can contribute, while other military provide direct military actions, we are on the side lines teaching something to other countries who don't really give a rats a$$ about the topic...

[blackbird]

Poilievre says he wants to end the woke culture in the Canadian forces.  There is a news article on this but can't find it at the moment

[CdnFox]

25 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Poilievre says he wants to end the woke culture in the Canadian forces.  There is a news article on this but can't find it at the moment

Might be more than one but this may be what you're talking about

Poilievre promises warrior culture for military, not woke | Toronto Sun

[BeaverFever]

2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

This life becasue thats the only area in which we can contribute, while other military provide direct military actions, we are on the side lines teaching something to other countries who don't really give a rats a$$ about the topic...

It’s not the only thing we contribute weve trained tens of thousands of Ukrainian troops for example. 
 

Also just as a point of fact the GAs role is to advise Canadian leaders not necessarily teach other countries.

. 

[herbie]

3 hours ago, blackbird said:

Poilievre says he wants to end the woke culture in the Canadian forces.  There is a news article on this but can't find it at the moment

Well that will encourage women, minorities and gays to sign up won't it? What a f*cking stupid play to gut issues instead of solutions.

Edited December 24, 2024 by herbie

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

Well that will encourage women, minorities and gays to sign up won't it? What a f*cking stupid play to gut issues instead of solutions.

Before the woke, we had lots of soldiers. 

Now that the army is woke, no one will sign up. 

Sorry herbie.... that WAS the solution. We don't actually need gays and women in combat roles. 

[BeaverFever]

24 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Before the woke, we had lots of soldiers. 

Now that the army is woke, no one will sign up. 

Sorry herbie.... that WAS the solution. We don't actually need gays and women in combat roles. 

1) No we didn’t have “lots of soldiers” “before the woke”. CAF has been downsized by design and also by neglect for decades now

2)Actually plenty of people are applying.  But the CAF only processes a fraction of the applications because they’re so under-resourced.  As of the most recent report year there were more than 70,000 applications but  fewer than 5,000 were processed because of backlogs in screening and training and personnel shortages. 
 

3) Women and “gays” have proven themselves in combat a long time ago. That said culturally the military is probably never going to have the same appeal for those demographics so uptake will probably be limited. 

[CdnFox]

25 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

1) No we didn’t have “lots of soldiers” “before the woke”. CAF has been downsized by design and also by neglect for decades now

Well "woke" was a design decision i suppose. 

Quote

2)Actually plenty of people are applying.  But the CAF only processes a fraction of the applications because they’re so under-resourced.

So there's TONNES of people!  They just can't hire them because there's no people.  Got it.

Well we tried it your way, lets try it a different way and see if that clears it up a bit.  Bet it does   

[BeaverFever]

17 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Well "woke" was a design decision i suppose. 

So there's TONNES of people!  They just can't hire them because there's no people.  Got it.

Well we tried it your way, lets try it a different way and see if that clears it up a bit.  Bet it does   

It’s not my way.  And yes being understaffed and poorly organized means we can’t efficiently hire more ppl. It’s a vicious cycle snd un-woking probably won’t help recruiting I don’t think the public is aware one way or another. It  might help retention of ppl leaving though. But I doubt someone who’s dreamt of  being a fighter pilot their whole life is quitting their dream just because suddenly there are tampons in the men’s room 

[herbie]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Before the woke, we had lots of soldiers. 

Someone so blinded and brainwashed by the right wing newspeak they can't even remember times they lived through.
We haven't had "lots" of soldiers since WW2 demobilization. We had mote than we do now, but it's not the Cold War days with overseas bases and UN peacekeeping commitments any more. The Forces have been downsizing for decades,

And you seriously think people will jump to sign up if only they were treated and respected as badly as they were in the movies you watch?

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

It’s not my way.  And yes being understaffed and poorly organized means we can’t efficiently hire more ppl. It’s a vicious cycle snd un-woking probably won’t help recruiting I don’t think the public is aware one way or another. It  might help retention of ppl leaving though. But I doubt someone who’s dreamt of  being a fighter pilot their whole life is quitting their dream just because suddenly there are tampons in the men’s room 

They tend to stop dreaming about it in the first place. The ideal of serving one's country and being a warrior and a hero is stuff kids grow up with. If the military is seen as being more of a fashion show and social justice organization it just won't appeal to the right people.

But hey, obviously things are going swimmingly so I'm wrong right?

[Venandi]

14 hours ago, Army Guy said:

We have the military we have today becasue Canadians want it that way, if they did not they would stand up and voice there opinion and change the government s direction.... want a 2 %  military right your MP and tell him.

 

14 hours ago, Army Guy said:

The answer to your question why we can't have a decent military....becasue it is not what Canadians want, it offers them nothing they can put in their pockets they see it as taking away money from social programs...

Exactly how I see it too...  and that's just one side of the retention, recruiting, operational tempo equation that's eating our lunch. Trouble is, there's a perfect storm here, a confluence of circumstance, rust out and bad ideas all at the same time. 

Herb has articulated one of those ideas above, trouble is, you could write a book about each of the following paragraphs (there are lots more paragraphs BTW) but Herb wouldn't even bother to read them... he'll write TLDR and advance his own theory instead.

The traditional recruiting pool is (actually was) pretty small to begin with and it's a whole bunch smaller now. And of that small group, the folks who are ready willing and able to join reduce it even further. People should take a moment and ponder the idea of ready, willing, and able as being separate entities worthy of separate consideration, then they should  examine the motivations of most young people considering that first trip to the CFRC Det.

Maybe Herb could chair a focus group comparing the utility of a JTF2 recruiting video vs that USN drag queen one that was "floating" around last year before it got trashed. Maybe the group could even ponder the spike in pilot applicants following a Top Gun movie or in combat arms applicants after the latest Rambo flick..

Recruiting wait times are too long (even for retreads), the best of the best are too often lost to the civilian side (policing, pilot training, technical trades, scholarships, that expat airline job, etc) due to ridiculously long intake delays.... not to mention the training delays once accepted.

About 70% of the traditional recruiting pool have family members or close family friends who are veterans or currently serving... and they are saying stay clear. This is a way bigger problem than Herb thinks.

Attrition is and will continue to be a factor in force generation and sustainability... tempo only serves to erode it further. Rebuilding will be a slow, laborious, uphill slog. Growing experienced, combat ready F18 pilots or infantry Sgt's for that matter is the equivalent of solving Canada's doctor shortage now, just on a smaller scale....and doing it isn't cheap.

Read that last sentence again Herb...

And to top it all off, on the personnel supply side (recruiting) there simply are not enough purple haired Wiccans interested in joining to make up the recruiting deficit. Turns out, they didn't stay away because of a prohibition on purple hair... they were never fuc&^%$ interested in joining in the first place. 

There's a bigger and even easier question attached to all of this... What did you think was going to happen? Here's an off topic example of what I mean as it pertains to homelessness, the people who created the problem are now the ones tearing down the tents... almost as if they were expecting some other outcome to the homeless problem they created.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/encampment-ruling-1.7418184

Where did you think these folks were going to go? What other options did you think they had? WTF did you think was going to happen? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2024 by Venandi

[BeaverFever]

6 hours ago, CdnFox said:

They tend to stop dreaming about it in the first place. The ideal of serving one's country and being a warrior and a hero is stuff kids grow up with. If the military is seen as being more of a fashion show and social justice organization it just won't appeal to the right people.

But hey, obviously things are going swimmingly so I'm wrong right?

I don’t think most civilians know the military is “woke” until they get there, Canadians famously don’t know anything about our military and I don’t think they would stop dreaming about being a fighter pilot just because they hear there will tampons in the mens room and say “oh I guess I’ll just be an accountant then”.   There will always be a lot more gays and trannies in civilian life then there will ever be in military life no matter how “woke” a military gets. 
 

I would also speculate that the prospect of having to live and work in an environment that is 85% male has long been a general disincentive to military life for a lot of men who don’t be in a permanent 24/7 sausage fest. 
 

 

[BeaverFever]

16 hours ago, CdnFox said:

But hey, obviously things are going swimmingly so I'm wrong right?

You don’t know the facts so you’re inventing your own narratives. “Wokeness” if anything is contributing to attrition but not to recruitment. 

Last year there were almost as many new applicants as there are people the entire CAF regular force.   The CAF doesn’t have the resources to process applications and train them  

 

 

The number of applicants to join Canada’s military is soaring. Why hasn’t that resulted in more of them in uniform?

May 7, 2024 at 6:32 p.m.

 

…But the pace of new recruits hasn’t kept up with the increase in applications, after the military opened recruitment to permanent residents and loosened rules for hairstyles and tattoos. Despite taking in 70,080 applications in 2023-24 — a five-year high — the military actually enrolled just 4,301 new recruits, according to new figures provided to the Star. 

That’s just a small uptick from 2022-23, when 3,930 recruits were enrolled and far fewer applications — 43,934 — were received. 

Recruitment was also lower in the most recent fiscal year than the 5,167 who enrolled in 2019-20, when the military received 36,662 applications, and in 2021-22, when 4,778 recruits were accepted and 38,030 applications were received, the figures show…

 

 

https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/the-number-of-applicants-to-join-canadas-military-is-soaring-why-hasnt-that-resulted-in/article_83828744-0c81-11ef-be0f-57acf65e1452.html

 

Edited December 24, 2024 by BeaverFever

[NAME REMOVED]

6 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

You don’t know the facts so you’re inventing your own narratives. “Wokeness” if anything is contributing to attrition but not to recruitment. 

Last year there were almost as many new applicants as there are people the entire CAF regular force.   The CAF does have the resources to process applications and train them  

 

 

 

The number of applicants to join Canada’s military is soaring. Why hasn’t that resulted in more of them in uniform?

May 7, 2024 at 6:32 p.m.

 

 

…But the pace of new recruits hasn’t kept up with the increase in applications, after the military opened recruitment to permanent residents and loosened rules for hairstyles and tattoos. Despite taking in 70,080 applications in 2023-24 — a five-year high — the military actually enrolled just 4,301 new recruits, according to new figures provided to the Star. 

That’s just a small uptick from 2022-23, when 3,930 recruits were enrolled and far fewer applications — 43,934 — were received. 

Recruitment was also lower in the most recent fiscal year than the 5,167 who enrolled in 2019-20, when the military received 36,662 applications, and in 2021-22, when 4,778 recruits were accepted and 38,030 applications were received, the figures show…

 

 

https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/the-number-of-applicants-to-join-canadas-military-is-soaring-why-hasnt-that-resulted-in/article_83828744-0c81-11ef-be0f-57acf65e1452.html

 

Excellent post.

 

[Venandi]

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

inventing your own narratives. “Wokeness” if anything is contributing to attrition but not to recruitment. 

Attrition is a huge deal here, one of three key personnel factors... especially if you accept the fact that many of the best recruits already have familial ties to the military and those who left are telling their kids, grandkids and friends to "look elsewhere.... just as I do.

It becomes a double edged sword, fewer quality recruits, less experienced pros to train them, less operational mentors when entry level training is complete... all at the same time and all whilst trying to maintain a semblance of operational tempo and repairing the equipment to do it with duct tape. 

Woke came at the worst possible time, the thinking behind it was deluded, and since careers are measured in decades, the effects will be with us for a while.

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

The CAF does have the resources to process applications and train them  

I would argue they don't but admittedly, I'm a bit dated now. At best I'd say the window is small and closing incrementally with time and rust out. The attrition you mentioned hurts, tempo hurts too and it leaves more attrition in its wake, training capacity is decreasing in terms of available resources, trainers, and operational level mentors. 

The fact that it works at all is a credit to the efforts of the very people you can ill afford to lose. Circling the drain is never a function of a single issue... If you had actually planned to accomplish this feat, you couldn't have implemented the plan more effectively.

Edited December 24, 2024 by Venandi