Canadian Defence News

[BeaverFever]

Admittedly this article could be in the Ukraine thread but think it speaks to the broken procurement process in DND /Public Works

 

Top DND bureaucrat blames companies for failing to supply Ukraine munitions

Canadian defence industry, meanwhile, says government is at fault.

Published Sep 13, 2023  •  Last updated 1 day ago  •  3 minute read

 

Ukrainian tanks take part in a training exercise in the Chernigiv region on Sept. 8, 2023, amid the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Photo by ANATOLII STEPANOV/AFP via Getty Images

Canadian industry has failed to come through with supplying ammunition and related material in the aftermath of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, warns National Defence’s top bureaucrat.

Instead, Canada has dipped into existing stockpiles to provide Ukraine with much-needed ammunition or has dealt with U.S. and foreign firms to provide munitions. In some cases it has gone through Canadian-based firms, but those companies then acquired the ammunition from foreign sources.

Story continues below 

This advertisement has not loaded yet, but your article continues below. 

“For a variety of reasons, Canadian munitions suppliers have been unable to provide the types or quantity of operational munitions required in response to the invasion of Ukraine,” according to the memorandum prepared in August 2022 by Deputy Minister Bill Matthews for then defence minister Anita Anand. The memo was obtained by this newspaper using the Access to Information law.

But Matthews’ view is being challenged by those in the Canadian defence industry. Industry officials point out that they have been ready to increase ammunition production and have been advocating for contracts from the Canadian government, but aren’t receiving them.

Christyn Cianfarani,  president of the Canadian Association of Defence and Security Industries, said her organization has been urging the federal government for more than a year to sign firm, multi-year contracts for priority capabilities like munitions. But nothing has happened, she added. “You can’t take a press release or Twitter posts to the bank,” Cianfarani explained. “A contract is the only thing that counts for a defence company making significant, multi-year investments in labour, inputs, and facilities to increase production.”

Story continues below 

This advertisement has not loaded yet, but your article continues below. 

Companies have submitted various proposals to spin up sustained production, she added.

In contrast to the Canadian situation, Cianfarani pointed to a November 2022 announcement by the U.S. military to award IMT Defence of Ingersoll, Ont., a contract worth more than $400 million to produce, package and supply metal parts assemblies for 155mm artillery projectiles.

Those artillery rounds are in scarce supply in Canada and the U.S. and other NATO nations as those armed forces have sent large amounts of such ammunition to Ukraine.

Other defence industry sources privately say that bureaucrats in National Defence and Public Services and Procurement Canada have bungled the situation by failing to push through contracts. They point to a Canadian government contract in February to IMT for 155mm artillery projectiles but added that deal was only for $4.3 million.

The Quebec-based General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems – Canada, which makes a wide variety of ammunition, including those for tanks, has received no federal government contracts for munitions to be supplied to Ukraine, National Defence also confirmed.

Story continues below 

This advertisement has not loaded yet, but your article continues below. 

The department noted in a statement that it intends to increase orders for munitions from Canadian companies in the future. “We continue to work with government and industry partners to investigate supply-chain solutions,” added National Defence spokesperson Jessica Lamirande.

Matthews, in his memorandum to the defence minister, stated that the war in Ukraine has highlighted supply chain vulnerabilities that are affecting the Canadian Forces.

The deputy minister recommended holding a round table of industry representatives to see what can be done about meeting Canadian military ammunition needs in the future. That meeting was held Sept. 26, 2022.

But Matthews noted in his memorandum the need to keep the news media in the dark about the ongoing munitions issues. While recommending that the communications organizations of both National Defence and Public Services and Procurement Canada be informed about the meeting, he suggested non-disclosure agreements or “similar mechanisms” could be used with “protect sensitive information and discussions.”

Story continues below 

This advertisement has not loaded yet, but your article continues below. 

In some cases, however, National Defence had little recourse but to acknowledge it was buying ammunition from the U.S. as the American government procurement system publishes such details. For instance, in 2022 the U.S. announced that Canada was purchasing 20,000 artillery rounds of artillery ammunition at a cost of $98 million.

In other cases, National Defence has declined to provide details on the sources of the ammunition purchases financed by Canadian taxpayers.

In April 2023, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau stated that Canada would send 2.4 million rounds of ammunition to Ukraine. But the actual source of the ammunition is considered secret.

The government would only state that the ammunition was being ordered from Colt Canada in Kitchener, Ont.

Eva Svobodová, spokesperson for Colt CZ Group, said the ammunition was  “sourced” from Colt Canada. She did not provide further details.

 

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/top-dnd-bureaucrat-blames-companies-for-failing-to-supply-munitions-but-industry-says-government-is-at-fault

[ExFlyer]

43 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

All this time I was assuming it was the French at fault since initial reports only said nobody was aboard the Canadian aircraft. Alas someone didn’t chock the wheels of the RCAF plane. Would that be the responsibility of ground crew from RCAF or the host nation (USA)?

Also I notice that this plane is painted in VIP transport livery rather than the grey operational livery despite being a tactical exercise which I think just speaks to the desperate state of the fleet: they just have to use whatever plane is available, no ability to dedicate specific aircraft to specific roles or the time/money to repaint when the fleet is rotated. 

The role of the aircraft is more important than the paint. If it is passengers, then it uses one version cargo different version. Paint is not important.

[BeaverFever]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

The role of the aircraft is more important than the paint. If it is passengers, then it uses one version cargo different version. Paint is not important.

So with the new Husky fleet reports and press releases have said only the plane(s) dedicated to VIP transport will have the colourful VIP livery and the rest will have grey operational livery. The fact that we currently have CC150 on tactical ex in vip livery just shows how small and stressed the fleet is.  Also the report on the Gu incident also noted that the plane arrived the prior evening carrying baggage and equipment so seems that they took a plane intended for VIP and used it for cargo on this Ex. I don’t know exactly how much time effort it takes to reconfigure the aircraft from passenger to cargo configuration but the material put out about the aircraft over the years has always highlighted that it was easily converted to various combinations of the two. 

[ExFlyer]

2 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

So with the new Husky fleet reports and press releases have said only the plane(s) dedicated to VIP transport will have the colourful VIP livery and the rest will have grey operational livery. The fact that we currently have CC150 on tactical ex in vip livery just shows how small and stressed the fleet is.  Also the report on the Gu incident also noted that the plane arrived the prior evening carrying baggage and equipment so seems that they took a plane intended for VIP and used it for cargo on this Ex. I don’t know exactly how much time effort it takes to reconfigure the aircraft from passenger to cargo configuration but the material put out about the aircraft over the years has always highlighted that it was easily converted to various combinations of the two. 

Or, perhaps it was configured for max passengers as opposed to cargo or part pax part cargo?

It is a pretty big effort to change configurations and using one already configured makes operational and practical sense. "The material" does not take  a lot into consideration. It is easy to say it is easily done as so many that do not have to do things say but it requires significant effort.

Lastly, it is also a matter of operations, what aircraft are available to do all the tasks.

Edited September 14, 2023 by ExFlyer

[Nefarious Banana]

Now, for the rest of the story . . . .

Trail RCMP say they received a complaint from a local man, who was offended by another person wearing camouflage pants.  The afternoon of Friday, Sept. 8th, a Trail RCMP officer received a phone call from a local man, 27 saying he observed a person wearing military issued camouflage pants in downtown Trail.

The caller said he was offended on behalf of the military as he believed civilians were not allowed to wear this type of trouser.  The complainant requested that the officer locate the man and remove his pants.

The officer informed the man that removal of someone's pants would be illegal even if they were camouflaged.  The man replied that he would remove the man's pants under order of the King of England.

The officer dissuaded the man from taking action after explaining to him that his actions would constitute an assault if he forcefully removed someone's pants, despite any kingly edicts that may exist.

"Our officers did look for the man reportedly wearing the camouflage pants downtown,"  Trail RCMP Sgt. Mike Wicentowich adds. "But unsurprising we couldn't find him."

[Dougie93]

13 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Now, for the rest of the story . . . .

Trail RCMP say they received a complaint from a local man, who was offended by another person wearing camouflage pants.  The afternoon of Friday, Sept. 8th, a Trail RCMP officer received a phone call from a local man, 27 saying he observed a person wearing military issued camouflage pants in downtown Trail.

The caller said he was offended on behalf of the military as he believed civilians were not allowed to wear this type of trouser.  The complainant requested that the officer locate the man and remove his pants.

The officer informed the man that removal of someone's pants would be illegal even if they were camouflaged.  The man replied that he would remove the man's pants under order of the King of England.

The officer dissuaded the man from taking action after explaining to him that his actions would constitute an assault if he forcefully removed someone's pants, despite any kingly edicts that may exist.

"Our officers did look for the man reportedly wearing the camouflage pants downtown,"  Trail RCMP Sgt. Mike Wicentowich adds. "But unsurprising we couldn't find him."

who would want to wear CADPAT-TW ?

it's literally the worst camouflage ever designed

because the clueless Canadian company which designed it drew the chromatics from the trees

as if soldiers spend their time up in the trees instead of down in the mud

you can see CADPAT-TW from a mile away,  it's way too dark

the previous olive green monochrome combat dress was way more effective

the troops call CADPAT-TW "Relish Cam" since it makes them look like a bottle of relish

[ExFlyer]

16 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Now, for the rest of the story . . . .

Trail RCMP say they received a complaint from a local man, who was offended by another person wearing camouflage pants.  The afternoon of Friday, Sept. 8th, a Trail RCMP officer received a phone call from a local man, 27 saying he observed a person wearing military issued camouflage pants in downtown Trail.

The caller said he was offended on behalf of the military as he believed civilians were not allowed to wear this type of trouser.  The complainant requested that the officer locate the man and remove his pants.

The officer informed the man that removal of someone's pants would be illegal even if they were camouflaged.  The man replied that he would remove the man's pants under order of the King of England.

The officer dissuaded the man from taking action after explaining to him that his actions would constitute an assault if he forcefully removed someone's pants, despite any kingly edicts that may exist.

"Our officers did look for the man reportedly wearing the camouflage pants downtown,"  Trail RCMP Sgt. Mike Wicentowich adds. "But unsurprising we couldn't find him."

remove the man's pants under order of the King of England.????

OMG.... Was Dougie93 there?? LOL

 

[Dougie93]

4 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

remove the man's pants under order of the King of England.????

OMG.... Was Dougie93 there?? LOL

under Section 419 of the Criminal Code, it is only an offence if the uniform would be "mistaken for" CF dress

simply wearing CADPAT pants would not constitute an offence therein

 

[Dougie93]

42 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said:

 under order of the King of England.

tho no charges should be laid

I will none the less forgive this individuals over zealousness

in light of his sheer loyalty to the Sovereign, Head of State & Commander-in-Chief

Nemo Me Impune Lacessit

 

[Dougie93]

55 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said:

The caller said he was offended on behalf of the military as he believed civilians were not allowed to wear this \

when I was just a boy in short pants back in 70"s

my father bought an old navy overcoat from the army surplus

he was a Beatnik, he thought it was cool

but then we were walking down Barrington Street, where we encountered two RCN Master Seamen

they looked my father up and down and said "ooh, who do you think you are ? A fooking Admiral ?

my father was intimidated and ashamed

he never wore that coat again

 

[ExFlyer]

41 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

under Section 419 of the Criminal Code, it is only an offence if the uniform would be "mistaken for" CF dress

simply wearing CADPAT pants would not constitute an offence therein

 

 

25 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

tho no charges should be laid

I will none the less forgive this individuals over zealousness

in light of his sheer loyalty to the Sovereign, Head of State & Commander-in-Chief

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

when I was just a boy in short pants back in 70"s

my father bought an old navy overcoat from the army surplus

he was a Beatnik, he thought it was cool

but then we were walking down Barrington Street, where we encountered two RCN Master Seamen

they looked my father up and down and said "ooh, who do you think you are ? A fooking Admiral ?

my father was intimidated and ashamed

he never wore that coat again

 

Ha Ha Ha...on and on and on... Ha Ha Ha.

One sentence would have been sufficient but Doougie cannot just stop there LOL

[BeaverFever]

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Or, perhaps it was configured for max passengers as opposed to cargo or part pax part cargo?

It is a pretty big effort to change configurations and using one already configured makes operational and practical sense. "The material" does not take  a lot into consideration. It is easy to say it is easily done as so many that do not have to do things say but it requires significant effort.

Lastly, it is also a matter of operations, what aircraft are available to do all the tasks.

You’re still making the same point I am, which is that they used a plane that had VIP livery because that’s the only one available for this exercise  Regardless of whether its due to this being the only aircraft available in the configuration they needed or the only aircraft available period its the same point.  

I’m sure they didn’t develop two distinct paint schemes with the intention of using them interchangeably. And for the new Husky they’ve said the dedicated VIP aircraft will have.the VIP livery and the MRTT aircraft will have the grey livery 

[BeaverFever]

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

who would want to wear CADPAT-TW ?

it's literally the worst camouflage ever designed

because the clueless Canadian company which designed it drew the chromatics from the trees

as if soldiers spend their time up in the trees instead of down in the mud

you can see CADPAT-TW from a mile away,  it's way too dark

the previous olive green monochrome combat dress was way more effective

the troops call CADPAT-TW "Relish Cam" since it makes them look like a bottle of relish

Funny I was going to say the man complaining to police in the story sounded like you. 
 

Anyway CADPAT TW has many fans south of the border there are no shortage of US military and hunting enthusiasts on the internet and YouTube who rave about it and think it’s the best. The US Marines completely copied it with the permission of the Canucks of course the only condition being that they change the colour palette.   It was also the very first pixilated camo in the world to go into widespread operational use and everyone since has attempted to imitate the Canadians. 
 

As for the relish jar crack which I’ve heard since it first came out the official line is that while it looks funny close up it is scientifically proven to be the most effective at combat ranges and that it has as much about breaking up the shape of the soldier as it is about trying to match every possible colour combination on the battlefield. 
 

Anyway the new CADPAT MT will be out soon with more brown pattern. They’ve be trialling and refining  it since 2019 so it’s probably not too far off.  There are so many mislabeled pics of the earlier CADPAT “Prototype J” and the later refined CADPAT MT that I can’t tell which is which in photos but MT is apparently the final colour palette.   
 

Queue the debate over a single pattern  camo. for desert and temperate environments. 

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Funny I was going to say the man complaining to police in the story sounded like you. 
 

Anyway CADPAT TW has many fans south of the border there are no shortage of US military and hunting enthusiasts on the internet and YouTube who rave about it and think it’s the best. The US Marines completely copied it with the permission of the Canucks of course the only condition being that they change the colour palette.   It was also the very first pixilated camo in the world to go into widespread operational use and everyone since has attempted to imitate the Canadians. 
 

As for the relish jar crack which I’ve heard since it first came out the official line is that while it looks funny close up it is scientifically proven to be the most effective at combat ranges and that it has as much about breaking up the shape of the soldier as it is about trying to match every possible colour combination on the battlefield. 
 

Anyway the new CADPAT MT will be out soon with more brown pattern. They’ve be trialling and refining  it since 2019 so it’s probably not too far off.  There are so many mislabeled pics of the earlier CADPAT “Prototype J” and the later refined CADPAT MT that I can’t tell which is which in photos but MT is apparently the final colour palette.   
 

Queue the debate over a single pattern  camo. for desert and temperate environments. 

CADPAT-TW is just another Canadian military embarrassment

CADPAT-MT is simply admitting that CADPAT-TW is junk and always was

meanwhile tho, CADPAT MT has only been issued to Mike Company, 3 RCR

because Canada doesn't even have the wherewithal to get it issued to the rest of the troops

[BeaverFever]

26 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

CADPAT-TW is just another Canadian military embarrassment

CADPAT-MT is simply admitting that CADPAT-TW is junk and always was

I don’t think updating something more than 2 decades after it was introduced “proves” the original was junk. As I said it’s been envied and imitated and there are no shortage of US military and camo websites who proclaim TW to be the best or among the best. The CADPAT AR however gets a big “meh” from these same folk at best. 

 

 

41 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

meanwhile tho, CADPAT MT has only been issued to Mike Company, 3 RCR

because Canada doesn't even have the wherewithal to get it issued to the rest of the troops

Unfortunately Canada can’t do anything in a timely fashion especially not for the military. I have often seen it even in business leaders in my workplaces over the years. Dithering and hand-wringing is our real national sport. 

[Dougie93]

Just now, BeaverFever said:

I don’t think updating something more than 2 decades after it was introduced “proves” the original was junk. As I said it’s been envied and imitated and there are no shortage of US military and camo websites who proclaim TW to be the best or among the best. The CADPAT AR however gets a big “meh” from these same folk at best.

nobody in the US military envies CADPAT-TW

even in the Canadian military Crye Precision  Multicam in prized

hence why CANSOFCOM chose Multicam

[Dougie93]

8 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Unfortunately Canada can’t do anything in a timely fashion especially not for the military. I have often seen it even in business leaders in my workplaces over the years. Dithering and hand-wringing is our real national sport. 

indeed, it's pathetic

Canada can't win the Stanley Cup anymore

all Canada can do now is be an apologist for its own abject failure to carry out even the most simple tasks

[BeaverFever]

55 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

hence why CANSOFCOM chose Multicam

I think the reason CANSOFCOM chose Multicam is so they’re not identifiable as Canadians when they are on operations. A number of western and non-western countries use Multicam or similar-appearing imitations, especially special forces. 
 

 

Whether or not rank and file American troop know/like CADPAT, those who put time and effort into making YouTube videos and webpages about camo seem to. 

[Dougie93]

3 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

I think the reason CANSOFCOM chose Multicam is so they’re not identifiable as Canadians when they are on operations. A number of western and non-western countries use Multicam or similar-appearing imitations, especially special forces. 
 

 

Whether or not rank and file American troop know/like CADPAT, those who put time and effort into making YouTube videos and webpages about camo seem to. 

CADPAT-TW is too green

when you are concealing yourself, you're not in the trees, you're on the ground

and the ground is not green, it is brown

Relish Cam stands out against the background,  even in the Canadian woods

[Nefarious Banana]

Have worn camo for decades.  Hunt coastal thick stuff, open/broken cover, and everything in between.  The best camo in any hunting situation is anything that breaks up the 'man image/shape' . . . this is generally large contrasting pattern/colors.  Moose, elk, deer, have exceptional eyesight, and can spot movement at great distances.  If that movement is 'man shaped' like small pattern camo generally is, you won't be entertaining guests with a elk roast.

An experienced hunter rarely skylines himself, will find a good comfortable spot to 'glass' that mountainside, and will initially relax his/her gaze . . .looking at nothing in particular, and often pickup movement in their peripheral vision.  Then is the time to start a methodical search with your quality optics . . . at least 10x.

I've kind of run-on  . . . apologies.

[Dougie93]

5 hours ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Have worn camo for decades.  Hunt coastal thick stuff, open/broken cover, and everything in between.  The best camo in any hunting situation is anything that breaks up the 'man image/shape' . . . this is generally large contrasting pattern/colors.  Moose, elk, deer, have exceptional eyesight, and can spot movement at great distances.  If that movement is 'man shaped' like small pattern camo generally is, you won't be entertaining guests with a elk roast.

An experienced hunter rarely skylines himself, will find a good comfortable spot to 'glass' that mountainside, and will initially relax his/her gaze . . .looking at nothing in particular, and often pickup movement in their peripheral vision.  Then is the time to start a methodical search with your quality optics . . . at least 10x.

I've kind of run-on  . . . apologies.

all those principles apply to military camouflage

except the prey is a trained soldier with exponentially better vision than an animal

CADPAT-TW doesn't actually disrupt your shape

it's too dark, it's too green

the chromatics are practically tropical

when in fact most of the terrain is brown, dry grass, fallen leaves, sand

CADPAT-TW just looks like a green blob crawling around in a brown environment

[BeaverFever]

4 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

all those principles apply to military camouflage

except the prey is a trained soldier with exponentially better vision than an animal

CADPAT-TW doesn't actually disrupt your shape

it's too dark, it's too green

the chromatics are practically tropical

when in fact most of the terrain is brown, dry grass, fallen leaves, sand

CADPAT-TW just looks like a green blob crawling around in a brown environment

CADPAT: Canadian Disruptive Pattern

 

 

The new Canadian patterns; CADPAT™ (Canadian Disruptive Pattern) Temperate Woodland (TW) and Arid Regions (AR). CADPAT TW has been rated best tropical and Temperate Camouflage by NATO soldiers in a recent scientific study. The Canadian studies show there is a 40 percent less chance of being detected from 200 meters away with CADPAT Versus Olive Drab.

MARPAT: Marine Pattern Camouflage

The U.S. Marines considered adopting CADPAT for their new pattern, however the Canadian government owns the copyright for the pattern. The Canadian government supplied information and manufacturers to help the Marines with the computer-generated Digital Pattern pixilated uniform the Canadians had been developing since 1988. 

The new U.S. Marine MARPAT (Marine Pattern camouflage) Forest, Desert and Urban

…..

Oddly enough over 100 Camouflage patterns were considered by the Marines, eventually the top 8 patterns were sent to the  Scout Sniper Instructor School in Quantico, VA for evaluation, the two top patterns were MARPAT and a new Tiger Stripe with the Tiger Stripe just edging out MARPAT among an internet survey for their choice. 

However, the Marines were seeking a negative area camouflage. Trees and solid objects are positive areas which is what a hunter would stand against and requires a positive type camouflage such as tree bark camo. A moving object within a negative area is quickly picked out in positive style camouflage. MARPAT being a negative type camouflage beat out the Tiger Stripe in the testing as the Stripes tended to show a bi-directional (left to right) pattern which was easier to picked out within negative areas. MARPAT like CADPAT is omni (all) directional with the pattern which is also enhanced in that no sharp edges occur in the pattern due to the pixilation on all edges. 

The NATO results of Camouflage testing resulting in CADPAT being chosen as the best NATO camouflage and Sniper School Marine testing resulting in MARPAT winning the Marine competition confirms the ability of the Digital Pattern Designs to maximize concealment even breaking up the soldiers outline in open areas during movement…

https://hyperstealth.com/CADPAT/#:~:text=CADPAT TW has been rated,with CADPAT Versus Olive Drab.
 

 

 

[BeaverFever]

4 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

when in fact most of the terrain is brown, dry grass, fallen leaves, sand

But often vegetated with undergrowth such as ferns and tall grasses etc.  

 

I am not arguing against an adjustment to the colour palette,  which has already happened. But even in “relish” config it was obviously so effective that it caused other militaries around the work to immediately imitate it. 
 

I am very interested to see how MT works out as a camo for every terrain type from jungle to desert. I am naturally skeptical that you can have one pattern for all terrains. The US Army”s Universal Came Pattern was a much-hated failure that they replaced with Multicam.   But Canada claims to have found the secret sauce so I guess we shall see. 

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

But often vegetated with undergrowth such as ferns and tall grasses etc.  

 

I am not arguing against an adjustment to the colour palette,  which has already happened. But even in “relish” config it was obviously so effective that it caused other militaries around the work to immediately imitate it. 
 

I am very interested to see how MT works out as a camo for every terrain type from jungle to desert. I am naturally skeptical that you can have one pattern for all terrains. The US Army”s Universal Came Pattern was a much-hated failure that they replaced with Multicam.   But Canada claims to have found the secret sauce so I guess we shall see. 

I would suggest that digital v. multicam is more about fashion than it is camouflage

the Marine Corps wanted its own pattern, then the Army jumped on the fad wagon

MARPAT has been successful, but Army ACUPAT was junk, and so is CADPAT-TW

in terms of snipers, the Canadian snipers in the Shah-i-Kot didn't wear CADPAT

they were wearing British Dessert DPM sniper suits, because CADPAT-TW is too green

CADPAT-TW is based on the colours of the trees in Canada

so unless you are climbing around up in the trees in Canada, it's useless

Multicam won out for two reasons

one; it looks cooler,  troops prefer the style

two ; it's effective across a broad range of terrains, so only one pattern is required

MT is basically just CADPAT using Multicam chromatics, or palette

that's all that really matters for concealment in terms of the uniform, one pattern which blends into all enviroments

to make MT, all they did was remove the dark green, the Relish Cam effect

you take CADPAT-AR and add light green; presto digital Multicam

Edited September 15, 2023 by Dougie93

[BeaverFever]

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

in terms of snipers, the Canadian snipers in the Shah-i-Kot didn't wear CADPAT

they were wearing British Dessert DPM sniper suits, because CADPAT-TW is too green

That’s because back then CADPAT-AR hadn’t been rolled out yet so elites got special purchase AR camo drom other countries while rank and file just had their TWs. The CAF was slow-walking the AR rollout just like they’re slow-walking MT

 

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

MT is basically just CADPAT using Multicam chromatics, or palette

that's all that really matters for concealment in terms of the uniform, one pattern which blends into all enviroments

to make MT, all they did was remove the dark green, the Relish Cam effect

you take CADPAT-AR and add light green; presto digital Multicam

Multicam looks lighter than MT and doesn’t appear to have a multidirectional pattern, it appears to have a horizontal bias to me    I suppose some day when MT is actually in use we will see some good side by side comparisons