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20 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

 i don't recall anyone refusing air support becasue they were not American.

I never said Americans would refuse to provide air support to Canadians

Americans will pull out all the stops to get there if they can

all I said is that Canada never provides CAS to its own troops

not because the CF-18 crews don't want to

simply because Canada never operates in combined arms in theatre

because the CAF simply cannot pull it off, for various reasons of institutional dysfunction

I none the less have no doubt that my American brothers in arms would go into harms way for me as necessary

Americans care about Canadian troops far more than Canadians do

you yourself said that America needs to come to your aid too in these darkest hours

as you look to the American Commander-in-Chief to force Canada to support its own troops

God bless America, leaders of the free world

in the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the see

as He died to make men holy, let us live to make men free

Edited by Dougie93
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1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

We don't know that , only ones calling in air strikes in Bosnia. Kosovo were spec ops, of which JTF was apart of...In Libya ground operations were also run by foreign spec ops...someone had to call in these airstrikes and guide them in, and do BDA assessments. Fact remains CF-18 did provide air support to ground forces on the ground to whom I'm not sure...which proves they are capable of doing those missions...

the CF-18's never provided CAS to the Canadian Army in theatre

they have never operated in support of the RCN neither

I am not the one who said they couldn't

Ex Flyer said that

but the CF-188 is just an F/A-18A license manufactured by McDonnell Douglas Canada at Downsview

it has all the capabilities of the Navy/Marine Corps version

the problem is not with the CF-18

the problem is that Canada's Boutique Military does not conduct combined arms operations

even though the Cf-18 is a Navy/Marine Corps platform

it does not operate with the RCN

nor the Canadian Army

the three service branches rarely if ever work together

ironically since Amalgamation, the three separate services were far more joint beforehand

what happens now is simliar to Canada writ large

Canada does not function as a country

rather all the provinces trade with the Americans while being protectionist against each other

same with the Canadian Foces

the Canadian Army plugs battalions into the US Army command structure

the RCN plugs into the US Navy command structure

the RCAF plugs into the USAF command sructure

but the three Canadian "service branches" do not work together as an integrated force

de facto American protectorate, both politically and militarily

Canada does not function as a sovereign Westphalian nation state

but rather as an American colony, just like it did before as a British colony

Canada has never progressed beyond being a colony at the operational level

Canada did not go forward with Patriation of the Constitution in 1982

Canada actually went backwards

swapping out being a British colony in favour of being an American colony

although it is far more prosperous to be an American colony

which is why the Canadian population has embraced it

America props the Canadian economy up

America props the Canadian military up too

it's not like Canada is ever going to do it

so count your blessings

Edited by Dougie93
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On 8/5/2023 at 3:40 PM, Dougie93 said:

the CF-18's never provided CAS to the Canadian Army in theatre

they have never operated in support of the RCN neither

I am not the one who said they couldn't

Ex Flyer said that

but the CF-188 is just an F/A-18A license manufactured by McDonnell Douglas Canada at Downsview

it has all the capabilities of the Navy/Marine Corps version

the problem is not with the CF-18

the problem is that Canada's Boutique Military does not conduct combined arms operations

even though the Cf-18 is a Navy/Marine Corps platform

it does not operate with the RCN

nor the Canadian Army

the three service branches rarely if ever work together

ironically since Amalgamation, the three separate services were far more joint beforehand

what happens now is simliar to Canada writ large

Canada does not function as a country

rather all the provinces trade with the Americans while being protectionist against each other

same with the Canadian Foces

the Canadian Army plugs battalions into the US Army command structure

the RCN plugs into the US Navy command structure

the RCAF plugs into the USAF command sructure

but the three Canadian "service branches" do not work together as an integrated force

de facto American protectorate, both politically and militarily

Canada does not function as a sovereign Westphalian nation state

but rather as an American colony, just like it did before as a British colony

Canada has never progressed beyond being a colony at the operational level

Canada did not go forward with Patriation of the Constitution in 1982

Canada actually went backwards

swapping out being a British colony in favour of being an American colony

although it is far more prosperous to be an American colony

which is why the Canadian population has embraced it

America props the Canadian economy up

America props the Canadian military up too

it's not like Canada is ever going to do it

so count your blessings

Dougie, you really have no clue about what goes on outside your foxhole.

Air support in the heaters Canada has been involved in has been provided buy whatever aircraft are available and for whomever needs it, including Canadas.

Canada's air force supported all troops, Canadian and others with Tac Hel and Chinook transport support.

Canadian CF188 do not support the navy as they are not carrier based and cannot fly out to sea (and why would they?)

In Afghanistan, Canada was there in a support role to support what was going on. We were not in Command and never wanted or expected to be.

Your anti Canada rhetoric is getting very old and you seem to be ashamed that you served in Canadian Uniform. I know that I am ashamed that you did.

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11 hours ago, Contrarian said:

? Trending

?? Canadians reassured to see military helping during local emergencies, Minister says

20230807160820-6fb48f38fe117cb2af4eca0a5f5dfe0bcadd423dc5e62478f2d8496eb252669b.jpg

 Defence Minister Bill Blair says Canadians want to see the military come to their aid during natural disasters, and the Armed Forces will remain a key part of the government’s response. 

“There is just something, I think, incredibly reassuring to Canadians when the Canadian Armed Forces show up and men and women in uniform are out in their communities and they’re sandbagging and helping people evacuate and get to safety,” he said in a recent interview. 

Speaking to a parliamentary committee last October, chief of the defence staff Gen. Wayne Eyre said the military is being called upon too often to respond to such disasters, and those requests are putting a strain on the Armed Forces at a time when it is dealing with a personnel shortage. 

“With the increasing frequency and intensity of these natural disasters, we’re being called upon more and more to respond not necessarily as a force of last resort, but in some cases the force of first choice,” he said on Oct. 6.

Around 16,000 positions are unfilled across the military, a situation that senior commanders have called a crisis.

Blair acknowledged the military has at times been the federal government’s first call, rather than a last resort. 

That led to discussions earlier this year about creating a national disaster-assistance organization or another mechanism to provide help when it’s needed.

The Canadian Press first reported in July that those discussions include analyzing models such as the Federal Emergency Management Agency in the ?? United States.

*The above text has selective quotes, to read the full article visit: 
https://toronto.citynews.ca/2023/08/08/canadians-reassured-to-see-military-helping-during-local-emergencies-blair-says/

Canadians spend billions of tax payers money every year, to fill sand bags, boy scouts could do that for a hell of lot cheaper... disaster response is drawing funds away from the Military, it is built into the military budget....right down to the unit level where they maintain equipment designed for fire fighting, floods, emergency preparedness every year, it also robs them of training time.

And yet covid has already uncovered that as a country we are not prepared for anything, Medical equipment and supplies were dumped becasue they were out dated, but never replaced...our depots for emergencies are empty....if the military is hurting for funding just how well prepared do you think they are for disasters...

All we have to do is look at past media articles, less than 6 to 8 months ago the number we were short was 10,000, today it is at 16,000....and thats the number the government released, it is much worse than those numbers suggest...

Those in power are screaming this is a crises...i just read an article in a military magazine, it's title is Canada at risk due to defense failures....by Steven grant, a letter was drafted by the conference of defense associates institute and signed by 6 former liberal and conservative defense ministers, 9 former CDS, 8 Generals, 5 vice Admirals, and one Admiral, one former NATO ambassador, all begging the current Liberal government to increase defense spending to 2 %. it was sad really when a letter needs to be drafted to the government urging them to look after one of their primary responsibly the defense and safety of Canadians. Canadians are starting to realize that our military is in sad shape and 75 % of those polled think we should spend more....but when this becomes a huge issue in Canada it will be to late, we would have lost to many capabilities that will take decades to replace....and it will cost more than Justin has ever spent to fix it...

 

 

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22 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Canadians spend billions of tax payers money every year, to fill sand bags, boy scouts could do that for a hell of lot cheaper... disaster response is drawing funds away from the Military, it is built into the military budget....right down to the unit level where they maintain equipment designed for fire fighting, floods, emergency preparedness every year, it also robs them of training time.

And yet covid has already uncovered that as a country we are not prepared for anything, Medical equipment and supplies were dumped becasue they were out dated, but never replaced...our depots for emergencies are empty....if the military is hurting for funding just how well prepared do you think they are for disasters...

All we have to do is look at past media articles, less than 6 to 8 months ago the number we were short was 10,000, today it is at 16,000....and thats the number the government released, it is much worse than those numbers suggest...

Those in power are screaming this is a crises...i just read an article in a military magazine, it's title is Canada at risk due to defense failures....by Steven grant, a letter was drafted by the conference of defense associates institute and signed by 6 former liberal and conservative defense ministers, 9 former CDS, 8 Generals, 5 vice Admirals, and one Admiral, one former NATO ambassador, all begging the current Liberal government to increase defense spending to 2 %. it was sad really when a letter needs to be drafted to the government urging them to look after one of their primary responsibly the defense and safety of Canadians. Canadians are starting to realize that our military is in sad shape and 75 % of those polled think we should spend more....but when this becomes a huge issue in Canada it will be to late, we would have lost to many capabilities that will take decades to replace....and it will cost more than Justin has ever spent to fix it...

 

 

Don't forget the time the Military was needed to shovel snow in Toronto.

The Military was called in to work in seniors residences during COVID.

The 4 SAR squadrons with all the helicopters, Hercs and Griffons are working every day to help Canadians in medivac, air ambulance searches  finding lost and injured hikes and on and on.

Our Navy on constant coastal patrols.

People are unaware of what the Military does for the everyday Canadians and people like dougie that claim to be so military knowledgeable keep on about the Military not doing anything.

We (Military) do so much with so little we should be praising them instead of crapping on the Military as dougie does.

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2 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Excellent, you did some good for Canadians...well Torontonians anyway. LOL

I also served on Op Feather during the Oka Crisis

and Op Harmony for UNPROFOR

and I recruited, trained and indoctrinated soldiers who went on to fight & die in Afghanistan

tho I warned them before they deployed that it was a fool's errand

so I have sent men to their deaths, knowing full well that they would be forgotten in the end

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20 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I also served on Op Feather during the Oka Crisis

and Op Harmony for UNPROFOR

and I recruited, trained and indoctrinated soldiers who went on to fight & die in Afghanistan

tho I warned them before they deployed that it was a fool's errand

so I have sent men to their deaths, knowing full well that they would be forgotten in the end

Oh Gawd...here you go again ??

Always about you ??

Stop dougie, we know your life was as a few years part time soldier and everything else sucks LOL

Edited by ExFlyer
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3 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Oh Gawd...here you go again ??

I've met the families of the fallen

the wives, the parents

the Afghanistan War was still in progress

yet even then I knew it would be a catastrophic failure

thus I didn't know what to say

I didn't want to say that

I did think back to Op Deliverance in Somalia mind you

our first foray into Nation Building in the Islamic world and what a disaster that was

and how it was prologue for what was to come

trying to apply Canada's Peacekeeping myth to lands torn by savage tribal warfare

bad idea

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31 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I've met the families of the fallen

the wives, the parents

the Afghanistan War was still in progress

yet even then I knew it would be a catastrophic failure

thus I didn't know what to say

I didn't want to say that

I did think back to Op Deliverance in Somalia mind you

our first foray into Nation Building in the Islamic world and what a disaster that was

and how it was prologue for what was to come

trying to apply Canada's Peacekeeping myth to lands torn by savage tribal warfare

bad idea

And again

Man place hand on head. Face palm gesture. — Stock Vector

Edited by ExFlyer
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8 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

And again

Man place hand on head. Face palm gesture. — Stock Vector

what have you done tho ?

you've flown about with SAR on domestic ops, which is literally a cake walk

maybe the SAR Techs go into harms way from time to time, but you were never a SAR Tech

then you worked at NDHQ as a civil servant for all intents & purposes

so you've never performed any operational role whatsoever related to warfighting

so what could you really know about it ?

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8 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

what have you done tho ?

you've flown about with SAR on domestic ops, which is literally a cake walk

maybe the SAR Techs go into harms way from time to time, but you were never a SAR Tech

then you worked at NDHQ as a civil servant for all intents & purposes

so you've never performed any operational role whatsoever related to warfighting

so what could you really know about it ?

Again???

I did my duty.

 

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Just now, Dougie93 said:

I did my duty too, down to the last detail, exactly as ordered

But you wallow in it on and on and on and on.

No one except you cares about you anymore. You have become one of those losers talking about themselves all the time.

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On 8/8/2023 at 6:33 PM, Contrarian said:

Why aren't politicians doing more to pay their bills here? Is it the sugar $ from the ?? United States of America? 

That my friend is the million dollar question, as allusive as trying to figure out old age question of why are women so hard to figure out. many researchers have gone insane trying to work it out...

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If you two guys spent as this much time educating the public about the military as you do trying to destroy each other we would all be fuc*ing genius in all matters military... Both of you have literally filled pages upon pages of nothing... Perhaps we could take a break...

Yesterday i talked to a troubled young soldier at the request of a good friend of mine, i say troubled becasue he has attempted suicide twice now, he is being bullied by other soldiers at work for being weak, for his attempts at suicide...he has never been in combat, but he and a few buddies were involved in a terrible car accident...and he has never really recovered emotionally.... his dad asked me to talk to him, becasue i was involved in something similar, in Afghanistan and i lost a few friends and could i explain to his son the process i took to over come it...anyways his source of grief is his own battle buddies, that have no idea what he is going through...and they sound much like you two... 

I know both your situations are not at that level ,or i hope it is not,  but for fu*k sake we all wore the same uniform, and were on the same team...In todays world where the government could not give a fiddlers fu*k about it's military member's, our citizens have a long history of just grinning and bearing it... All we have left really is each other...Donning the same uniform should be enough for at least some respect on both your parts...

 

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9 hours ago, Army Guy said:

If you two guys spent as this much time educating the public about the military as you do trying to destroy each other we would all be fuc*ing genius in all matters military... Both of you have literally filled pages upon pages of nothing... Perhaps we could take a break...

Yesterday i talked to a troubled young soldier at the request of a good friend of mine, i say troubled becasue he has attempted suicide twice now, he is being bullied by other soldiers at work for being weak, for his attempts at suicide...he has never been in combat, but he and a few buddies were involved in a terrible car accident...and he has never really recovered emotionally.... his dad asked me to talk to him, becasue i was involved in something similar, in Afghanistan and i lost a few friends and could i explain to his son the process i took to over come it...anyways his source of grief is his own battle buddies, that have no idea what he is going through...and they sound much like you two... 

I know both your situations are not at that level ,or i hope it is not,  but for fu*k sake we all wore the same uniform, and were on the same team...In todays world where the government could not give a fiddlers fu*k about it's military member's, our citizens have a long history of just grinning and bearing it... All we have left really is each other...Donning the same uniform should be enough for at least some respect on both your parts...

 

I apologize but I tend to respond to attack.

EDIT: I had a long thought out response here to address your comments but changed my mind and deleted it.

Just to say, in the same uniform or not, I have lost respect for dougie. Sorry.

 

 

 

Edited by ExFlyer
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6 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

I apologize but I tend to respond to attack.

EDIT: I had a long thought out response here to address your comments but changed my mind and deleted it.

Just to say, in the same uniform or not, I have lost respect for dougie. Sorry.

 

 

 

You don't owe me anything, i understand your actions, i do the same, in most cases when attacked... I just thought that with so many negative forces already facing soldiers , that perhaps we could find another avenue to solve issues between each other.

I appreciate the effort, i to thought a long and hard before writing my post, it truly was none of my business, But in the eyes of those not in the military's it paints a negative picture .  The event over the weekend had some effect on me, and has opened mind eyes a little more to hidden conflict members face everyday.  

 

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30 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

You don't owe me anything, i understand your actions, i do the same, in most cases when attacked... I just thought that with so many negative forces already facing soldiers , that perhaps we could find another avenue to solve issues between each other.

I appreciate the effort, i to thought a long and hard before writing my post, it truly was none of my business, But in the eyes of those not in the military's it paints a negative picture .  The event over the weekend had some effect on me, and has opened mind eyes a little more to hidden conflict members face everyday.  

 

I have never had an issue or problem with any serving member in my entire career or afterwards..

 

Anyway, I apologize to anyone I may have offended or given the wrong impression to, except self serving dougie.

Edited by ExFlyer
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On 8/5/2023 at 2:34 PM, Dougie93 said:

I never said Americans would refuse to provide air support to Canadians

Americans will pull out all the stops to get there if they can

all I said is that Canada never provides CAS to its own troops

You know now that I think about it I don’t think I’ve ever read an article about CAS train or doctrine in the RCAF and can’t find much online about it either   I’m really curious to know about the state of that capability in Canada.  Sounds like things are moving towards long range precision fires anyway. 

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8 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

You know now that I think about it I don’t think I’ve ever read an article about CAS train or doctrine in the RCAF and can’t find much online about it either   I’m really curious to know about the state of that capability in Canada.  Sounds like things are moving towards long range precision fires anyway. 

4 Wing trains the plots to roll in and drop bombs on the Fighter Weapons Course

the only other training they need is to interact with the FAC's to call them in on a position

it's not that the CF-18's can't do CAS

CAS is not that complex, any fighter pilot can get it done

the issue is more that the CAF does not deploy in combined arms

like the Marine Corps, the Marine Corps is vertically integrated, they do everything in house

yet even tho in theory the CAF is "Amalgamated"

that amalgamation is just the bureaucracy, it's not operational

rather, the three Canadian "Service Branches" never deploy as a single integrated force

instead, they all just do their own thing, completely separate from each other

the RCN integrates with American Carrier Strike Groups & does Maritime Security Ops

the Army does rotation after rotation on intervention operations : "Peacekeeping"

and the air force does strategic bombing ; Gulf War, Kosovo, Libya

 

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2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

4 Wing trains the plots to roll in and drop bombs on the Fighter Weapons Course

the only other training they need is to interact with the FAC's to call them in on a position

it's not that the CF-18's can't do CAS

CAS is not that complex, any fighter pilot can get it done

the issue is more that the CAF does not deploy in combined arms

like the Marine Corps, the Marine Corps is vertically integrated, they do everything in house

yet even tho in theory the CAF is "Amalgamated"

that amalgamation is just the bureaucracy, it's not operational

rather, the three Canadian "Service Branches" never deploy as a single integrated force

instead, they all just do their own thing, completely separate from each other

the RCN integrates with American Carrier Strike Groups & does Maritime Security Ops

the Army does rotation after rotation on intervention operations : "Peacekeeping"

and the air force does strategic bombing ; Gulf War, Kosovo, Libya

 

As you suggest there’s more to CAS than bombing….it doesn’t seem that RCAF has air-to-ground missiles or rockets anymore. 

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21 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

As you suggest there’s more to CAS than bombing….it doesn’t seem that RCAF has air-to-ground missiles or rockets anymore. 

well I've only ever seen the CF-18s drop bombs on exercise once

and for exercise, that was unguided Mk82 500lb "Snake Eye" bombs

they've got the Mk.82 500 lb, Mk.83 1000 lb & Mk.84 2000 lb bombs

and if it's not danger close to troops on the ground, those can be dropped accurately for CAS

but the principle PGM for the RCAF is the GBU-12

that's a Mk.82 500 lb bomb with a Raytheon Paveway semi active laser homing kit

and recently ( in Iraq ) CF-18's have deployed with the Boeing JDAM kit for the Mk.82

in the end, the CF-18 can drop practically anything in the American arsensal

but Canada has only been using  the Paveway & JDAM kits for the Mk.82

in the unlikely event that the RCAF would be flying CAS, those would be the bombs of choice

the CF-18 is fitted with the Lockheed Martin AN/AAQ-33 Sniper Advanced Targeting Pod

so that's what they use when dropping Paveway or JDAM

the CRV-7 Rockets have been retired, those are no longer in use

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And the hits just keep coming (literally)

 

‘Bam’: WestJet plane clips military aircraft on ramp in Comox, B.C.
 

….

In an emailed statement, the Depart of National Defence said a civilian aircraft struck an unoccupied CC-130H Hercules. That aircraft is primarily used for search and rescue operations.

“The incident is being investigated by WestJet and RCAF authorities and will also involve the Transportation Safety Board,” wrote Andrew McKelvey of the department’s media relations team.

“The extent of the damage to the Hercules is not yet known.”

….

The RCAF is now working to minimize the impact on fixed-wing search and rescue operations within the Victoria region. Rotary wing search and rescue operations remain unaffected, McKelvey said.

“As the matter is being investigated by multiple flight safety agencies, it would be inappropriate to comment on the nature and extent of the damage or speculate on the cause,” he said.

https://globalnews.ca/news/9886873/westjet-plane-clips-military-aircraft-comox-bc/


 

Damage to HMCS Winnipeg limits warship's operations, DND confirms

One of the Royal Canadian Navy’s frigates has damage to its propeller and structural cracks and corrosion, limiting the operation of the ship.

Published Aug 09, 2023  •  Last updated 1 day ago  •  3 minute read

 

HMCS Winnipeg dockside in VancouverA 2014 file photo of HMCS Winnipeg dockside in Vancouver. Photo by Jimmy Jeong /The Canadian Press

One of the Royal Canadian Navy’s frigates has damage to its propeller and structural cracks and corrosion, limiting the operation of the ship.

National Defence confirmed the details this newspaper received from navy personnel about the damage to HMCS Winnipeg, but denied suggestions from those sailors that the Halifax-class frigate might be decommissioned in the near future because of the ongoing issues.

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National Defence spokesperson Dan Le Bouthillier confirmed that “structural cracks and corrosion issues were identified which are related to the age of the ship.”

But he said those problems would be dealt with next year, when HMCS Winnipeg is docked for a more extensive repair period.

Le Bouthillier also confirmed the problem with the frigate’s propeller, which occurred last fall during a mission to the Indo-Pacific. A piece of the edge of one of the propeller’s five blades broke off.

“To avoid excessive vibration and possible damage, a speed restriction was placed on the ship until full repairs can be conducted during the ship’s next comprehensive docking period,” Le Bouthillier said.

He noted that HMCS Winnipeg was continuing to support crew training.

The frigate’s propeller was damaged in October 2022. Halifax-class Frigates, such as HMCS Winnipeg, have two propellers.

HMCS Winnipeg will be docked for a year starting in January for extended maintenance, known as a docking work period.

As part of the leadup to that docking, Le Bouthillier said, routine structural surveys of the warship were done and structural cracks and corrosion issues were found. “The most immediate issues were repaired, and, following a rigorous risk assessment, it was determined that the ship could safely continue its current sailing schedule with some restrictions on operating in high sea states,” he added.

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Maximum speed can also be used in case of emergencies.

The Royal Canadian Navy did not answer this newspaper’s questions about whether discussions had recently taken place about decommissioning HMCS Winnipeg because of the structural problems.

But navy spokesperson Sabrina Nash did say there were “no plans to decommission His Majesty’s Canadian Ship Winnipeg in 2024.”

Maintenance done on the ship during the docking work period, and other similar work periods that take place every five years, will “ensure the frigates remain effective and continue to serve as a bridge to the future fleet, allowing the Navy to deliver on its core mission until the arrival of the Canadian Surface Combatants,” she added.

The Canadian Surface Combatant or CSC project will see the construction of 15 new warships to replace the Halifax-class frigates.

But the CSC project – the largest single expenditure in Canadian history – has been plagued with delays and cost overruns. Concerns have been raised about the lack of accountability and oversight of the program as well as the secrecy surrounding the initiative.

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The project was originally approved with a $26 billion price tag but Parliamentary Budget Officer Yves Giroux estimated last year that cost for the ships is now $84.5 billion.

“Every time we look at this (project) the costs go up,” Giroux said at the time.

A new cost estimate is expected to be released in the fall by National Defence.

Even as costs continue to rise, National Defence is steadfast that it will not be altering course on the project.

CSC was started by the previous Conservative government but by the summer of 2015 it was talking about limiting increasing project costs by reducing the number of ships to be built.

But the incoming Liberal government dismissed that notion and instead committed to all 15 warships.

In February 2021, the Department of National Defence revealed that the delivery of the first surface combatant ship would be delayed until 2030 or 2031. The first ship was originally supposed to be delivered in the early 2020s but that was later changed to 2025, according to DND documents.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/damage-to-hmcs-winnipeg-limits-warships-operations-dnd-confirms

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